P2W confirmed

AlextheMuspel

Let's say you're at the previous cap right now, 810cp.

And now you need to get to 1800cp to reach the soft cap in cp PvP.

Required experience: 434,706,350xp - 103,096,531xp = 331,609,819xp
(Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hk7TKR39KzwEOlbbLMRJRx90O1PEgCERrgEDC1pubPA/edit#gid=0)

Now, assuming if you want to reach that soft cap asap, the fastest method is master writs, which grants you 50k xp without any boost. In an ideal scenario, most people would probably save them till 100%xp boost event, and drink a 150% exp bonus ambrosia when turning in those writs. Now, we have 50k * (100+150+10(with ESO+)) +50k= 180k xp

How many writs do you need to do in order to reach 1800cp from 810cp? That's 331,609,819/180,000 = 1842.3 writs

This part gets a bit tricky, because you'd wanna pick the cheapest writs to do as all the writs grant the same xp. The best deal you can probably find on market is Enchanting writs, for Alchemy writs/Provisioning writs are extremely hard to acquire and overpriced. If you're patient, you can accumulate bunch of Enchanting writs at an average price of 4k gold. The crafting cost for a purple one is around 300g, and you get 2 tickets in return. That's 2k gold if 1 voucher = 1k gold.

As a former trader, I'd say it would take you at least 1 year to check EVERY SINGLE DAY to get 1000 writs at that price.

More realistically speaking, 1 writ = 8000 gold if you take all the factors into consideration, and that's the optimistic estimation. In that case, 8000*1843 = 14,744,000 gold.

With the TCE exchange rate, 1 crown = 400 gold, 14,744,000 gold = 36860 crowns = $368.6 irl money

With 260% xp boost, no enlightenment, and you have to spend $368.6 irl money to reach the soft cap of cp PvP.

Now you might start to understand why they refuse to adjust your cp level based on your earned experience. It's all $$$.

Starlight_Whisper

Remember to show ancient traders in Alinor for your needs!

You too can be strong! 💰

ArcVelarian

Or you could just rubber band at a Dolmen for approximately $0.00 (USD)

VaranisArano

I once did 100 writs in a row to unlock the ability to buy Housing chests. I salute anyone with the fortitude to do 1843 writs in a row!

Nice job on the math, BTW. These sort of writeups are fascinating.

heaven13

But since you can't buy CP, or writs, with crowns, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

Arrodisia

heaven13 wrote: »

But since you can't buy CP, or writs, with crowns, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

This

hafgood

What are you on about? Selling crowns to get gold would not qualify as P2W, it doesn't come close. P2W is where you buy stuff with real money that can only be bought with real money that give you an advantage.

Buying gold - the actual in game currency- hardly qualifies as P2W. You can make that 14 million gold you claim you need simply by trading in the game, without much effort I make 500k to a million every week, I could make more. So in say 20 weeks I would have the same amount of gold at no cost.

So buying gold with crowns can not be considered P2W.

If you are that desperate to get to 1800CP then spend your money, I'd rather have my money in my pocket and earn my gold through the game.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Now that's some tinfoil hoop jumping.

VaranisArano

heaven13 wrote: »

But since you can't buy CP, or writs, with crowns, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

You buy writs with gold, which you can trade for with crowns. It's at one step remove, but the crown gifting trade is a fairly reliable way to make gold.

Arrodisia

As long as the game is giving writs to players free as rewards for a quest it's not P2W.

A player choosing to trade it on the side for a crown item doesn't change the facts. It can be gotten for free in the game.

VoidCommander

Or if you do daily random normal dungeons on 10 characters every day at 100k xp (no xp buff), you could reach 1800 in 331 days. Using the provisioning perks, and the new green cp for adding 30 minutes to food and drink, you can make a 30 minute 100% ambrosia (20k gold) last 80 minutes instead. At an average 15 minutes per dungeon (and not using those toons for anything else, each ambrosia is good for 5 dungeons). 331 dungeons would then require 66 ambrosias, or 1.320,000 gold, and would reduce the time to 165 days. Yes the grind would be brutal, and it would require a player to have 10 "fake tank ready" toons. So long as you cared enough about the game to get a good damage build (and thus care about cp), you will be fine. Just give it time.

Scardan

It is not pay to win.

If you want to know how p2w looks like, I recommend you to play TDP4. No money=no progression. No pay=no win.

But leveling in ESO?
You don't need 3600 CP to win the game.

heaven13

VaranisArano wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

But since you can't buy CP, or writs, with crowns, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

You buy writs with gold, which you can trade for with crowns. It's at one step remove, but the crown gifting trade is a fairly reliable way to make gold.

I get that but it's so far removed from P2W that I can't even consider it seriously. Unlockable skill lines and skyshards are closer to p2w than crown selling to get gold to buy writs and even that isn't P2W, more P4C (pay for convenience).

Even IF you sold $400 worth of crowns, that doesn't mean you're going to find writs in guild traders. You sold crowns and got gold, same as usual.

redlink1979

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

(...) you have to spend $368.6 irl money to reach the soft cap of cp PvP. (...)

No, you don't. There are cheaper ways to get what you need in-game.

FantasticFreddie

What on earth?
Max CP or even 1600 CP is not necessary to "win" at the game.
Score pushing trial scores? Maybe, and there is a deeper gap in pvp too possibly now, but that is easily circumvented by playing no-cp.
There isn't a clearly defined "win" in the game.

amm7sb14_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

But since you can't buy CP, or writs, with crowns, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

You buy writs with gold, which you can trade for with crowns. It's at one step remove, but the crown gifting trade is a fairly reliable way to make gold.

But buying gold doesn't go to ZOS, so again, this is irrelevant. Nothing about this post is P2W.

Katahdin

Or you know, you could just not worry about your CP level and just play the game and let the CP come on its own.

Ill never understand the obsession with being at max level to the point where you just cant enjoy anything else in the game

AlextheMuspel

ArcVelarian wrote: »

Or you could just rubber band at a Dolmen for approximately $0.00 (USD)

I once timed Alikr's dolmen, and it shows that it would take 3min for each dolmen, 9min for a full rotation.

If I remembered correctly, a full dolmen rotation grants you 9k*3 = 27k exp, with 260% bonus that would be 97,200 exp, assuming you can afford the 150% ambrosia, btw that's 80k gold per 30 min

How long would it take from 810cp to 1800cp then? (331,609,819/97,200)*9 = 30704.6min = 511 hours.
Guess how much money you're gonna spend on 150% drink? 81 million gold LUL

Without the 150% bonus, it would take (331,609,819/43,200)*9 = 69085 min = 1151 hours of Dolmen grinding

No...I don't think so. I'd rather spend 1151 hours sleeping bc that's a lot better for my optical and mental health

Chips_Ahoy

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

Let's say you're at the previous cap right now, 810cp.

And now you need to get to 1800cp to reach the soft cap in cp PvP.

Required experience: 434,706,350xp - 103,096,531xp = 331,609,819xp
(Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hk7TKR39KzwEOlbbLMRJRx90O1PEgCERrgEDC1pubPA/edit#gid=0)

Now, assuming if you want to reach that soft cap asap, the fastest method is master writs, which grants you 50k xp without any boost. In an ideal scenario, most people would probably save them till 100%xp boost event, and drink a 150% exp bonus ambrosia when turning in those writs. Now, we have 50k * (100+150+10(with ESO+)) +50k= 180k xp

How many writs do you need to do in order to reach 1800cp from 810cp? That's 331,609,819/180,000 = 1842.3 writs

This part gets a bit tricky, because you'd wanna pick the cheapest writs to do as all the writs grant the same xp. The best deal you can probably find on market is Enchanting writs, for Alchemy writs/Provisioning writs are extremely hard to acquire and overpriced. If you're patient, you can accumulate bunch of Enchanting writs at an average price of 4k gold. The crafting cost for a purple one is around 300g, and you get 2 tickets in return. That's 2k gold if 1 voucher = 1k gold.

As a former trader, I'd say it would take you at least 1 year to check EVERY SINGLE DAY to get 1000 writs at that price.

More realistically speaking, 1 writ = 8000 gold if you take all the factors into consideration, and that's the optimistic estimation. In that case, 8000*1843 = 14,744,000 gold.

With the TCE exchange rate, 1 crown = 400 gold, 14,744,000 gold = 36860 crowns = $368.6 irl money

With 260% xp boost, no enlightenment, and you have to spend $368.6 irl money to reach the soft cap of cp PvP.

Now you might start to understand why they refuse to adjust your cp level based on your earned experience. It's all $$$.

What's the rush? I'm just CP130 and I'm in no rush to get anywhere.

AlextheMuspel

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

ArcVelarian wrote: »

Or you could just rubber band at a Dolmen for approximately $0.00 (USD)

I once timed Alikr's dolmen, and it shows that it would take 3min for each dolmen, 9min for a full rotation.

If I remembered correctly, a full dolmen rotation grants you 9k*3 = 27k exp, with 260% bonus that would be 97,200 exp, assuming you can afford the 150% ambrosia, btw that's 80k gold per 30 min

How long would it take from 810cp to 1800cp then? (331,609,819/97,200)*9 = 30704.6min = 511 hours.
Guess how much money you're gonna spend on 150% drink? 81 million gold LUL

Without the 150% bonus, it would take (331,609,819/43,200)*9 = 69085 min = 1151 hours of Dolmen grinding

No...I don't think so. I'd rather spend 1151 hours sleeping bc that's a lot better for my optical and mental health

Oh I forgot the multiplier, without the 150% bonus a full rotation would grant you 70200xp instead of 43200xp.

Since I assume nobody sane would actually want to do that, it's kinda pointless to do further calculation LOL

phileunderx2

I have been very lazy with my master writs the past few months and have just stuck them in my guild bank. Probably close to 200 in there that will get done during the jester festival.

Dojohoda

Diabolical plot! I read this in Rod Serling's voice.

Skander

It was confirmed with the new classes and items already

AlnilamE

It would be better to pre-do a bunch of writs and park your character in front of Rollis and hand in enough every day that you run out of enlightenment, rather than letting it go to waste, if all you are doing is that.

Or you can play the game and get through your enlightenment the natural way, as well.

But I don't think you can just ignore enlightenment at all in your calculations.

AlextheMuspel

heaven13 wrote: »

But since you can't buy CP, or writs, with crowns, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430760/discord-tamriel-crown-exchange-crown-store-items-for-gold-over-10-mil-crowns-traded

You can, and very easily, in fact. Crowns buy gold, gold buy writs, simple.

josiahva

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

Let's say you're at the previous cap right now, 810cp.

And now you need to get to 1800cp to reach the soft cap in cp PvP.

Required experience: 434,706,350xp - 103,096,531xp = 331,609,819xp
(Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hk7TKR39KzwEOlbbLMRJRx90O1PEgCERrgEDC1pubPA/edit#gid=0)

Now, assuming if you want to reach that soft cap asap, the fastest method is master writs, which grants you 50k xp without any boost. In an ideal scenario, most people would probably save them till 100%xp boost event, and drink a 150% exp bonus ambrosia when turning in those writs. Now, we have 50k * (100+150+10(with ESO+)) +50k= 180k xp

How many writs do you need to do in order to reach 1800cp from 810cp? That's 331,609,819/180,000 = 1842.3 writs

This part gets a bit tricky, because you'd wanna pick the cheapest writs to do as all the writs grant the same xp. The best deal you can probably find on market is Enchanting writs, for Alchemy writs/Provisioning writs are extremely hard to acquire and overpriced. If you're patient, you can accumulate bunch of Enchanting writs at an average price of 4k gold. The crafting cost for a purple one is around 300g, and you get 2 tickets in return. That's 2k gold if 1 voucher = 1k gold.

As a former trader, I'd say it would take you at least 1 year to check EVERY SINGLE DAY to get 1000 writs at that price.

More realistically speaking, 1 writ = 8000 gold if you take all the factors into consideration, and that's the optimistic estimation. In that case, 8000*1843 = 14,744,000 gold.

With the TCE exchange rate, 1 crown = 400 gold, 14,744,000 gold = 36860 crowns = $368.6 irl money

With 260% xp boost, no enlightenment, and you have to spend $368.6 irl money to reach the soft cap of cp PvP.

Now you might start to understand why they refuse to adjust your cp level based on your earned experience. It's all $$$.

LMAO, are you serious? Have you ever played a PTW game? There are so many fallacies here that its not even funny:

1. There are MANY ways to gain experience in this game, some of the most efficient aren't even locked behind DLC(Skyreach, etc). So if you chose to use XP potions and master writs that's on you...you are also completely ignoring the writ vouchers you get that you can use to buy crafting stations and the like...but that's a different subject.
2. No one is forcing you to play in CP PvP to begin with...CP PvP is miserable, it takes forever to kill anyone at cap, and if you aren't at cap yourself, you are just handicapping yourself by playing there to start with.
3. This isn't a race...it really does not matter if you reach cap in 2 days or 20 years...there are plenty of things to do in game other than CP PvP.
4. Let me explain to you what PTW means...I played a PTW game....guess what? In a true PtW game the best equipment, the best stats are ONLY available by paying...there is NO IN GAME WAY TO GET THEM...that is what pay to win means....that if you don't pay, you can't win against players that do with everything else being equal(skill, etc)...NOT that if you don't pay it might take you a little longer to max out your stats.

People who complain about ESO being PTW just do not know what they are talking about. Once you buy this game, you can very well reach the same level as other end game players given time...if you actually care about reaching that level. I am sorry if it offends you that it may take awhile to reach the level you want to be at.

AlextheMuspel

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

But since you can't buy CP, or writs, with crowns, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

You buy writs with gold, which you can trade for with crowns. It's at one step remove, but the crown gifting trade is a fairly reliable way to make gold.

But buying gold doesn't go to ZOS, so again, this is irrelevant. Nothing about this post is P2W.

The gold goes to the crown seller, where does the crown seller get crowns to trade the gold? Irl money. And where does that money go to? ZOS.

To makes this easier to understand, let's say I want 5000 crowns, and I'd like to use gold to trade for the crown. I contacted a seller, who agreed to 1:400 and asked for 2m gold. He then purchased 5000 crowns with $50, and gifted me the crown item. Where did that $50 go? ZOS.

virtus753

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

But since you can't buy CP, or writs, with crowns, this entire conversation is irrelevant.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/430760/discord-tamriel-crown-exchange-crown-store-items-for-gold-over-10-mil-crowns-traded

You can, and very easily, in fact. Crowns buy gold, gold buy writs, simple.

But you haven’t said to which definition of pay to win you subscribe. If it’s the definition in which you *must* pay with real money to progress, this isn’t it, since you can get those things free in game with time. If it’s the definition where you can pay with real money to skip the time investment, but can’t actually obtain anything not obtainable for free eventually, then you’re going to face a lot of disagreement on your premise. At that point there’s no way to have any sort of discussion or debate, since common definitions can’t be agreed upon.

Gilvoth

there are many pay to win mmo's
eso is not one of them.

AlextheMuspel

redlink1979 wrote: »

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

(...) you have to spend $368.6 irl money to reach the soft cap of cp PvP. (...)

No, you don't. There are cheaper ways to get what you need in-game.

Cheaper ways = more time spent. It really all comes down to which you weigh heavier: time or money?

When a game forces you to choose between your time or your money, it's no longer worth either of them.

umagon

I don’t think its pay to win in this case. Seeing they have been working on the new champ system for two plus years I don’t think they would have given out so many crown exp scrolls for the daily login awards.

From saving the daily login rewards I have 175 crown, 29 grand gold coast, and 5 major gold coast experience scrolls. So that is 350 hours of 50% exp boost, 29 hours of 150% exp boost, and 5 hours of 100% exp boost.