play how you want?

SeaArcanist

so the only flaw i can recognize about in ESO 2.0, from a PvE perspective (pvp has ALOT of issue, so im not touch'n that!) is the "play how you want" slogan that the champ system implies.

fact of the matter is can i Truly "play how i want?". well.. no. the champion system is the opposite. i mean eventually, yes, you can. but no. lemme explain

when i obtain 2k champ points, ill be able to play how i want, essentualy. the number of champ points needed differs from person to person. ull spend 90% of the time "not playing how you want" to eventually "play how you want". and by then is there any content left? not really, just repeating stuff you already did.

truly in eso you cant initially play how you want.

SeaArcanist

in champ 1.0 there was no liniar progression. invest your points anywhere in any perk in any order. making for a true "play how you want" experience. and 2.0 does not offer it. your choices are not the ones you WANT to make, but the ones you HAVE to make.

VaranisArano

That's not what "play the way you want" means.


Specifically, the last time the Devs referenced this phrase, it was in the context of class viability in different roles. The new CP 2.0 system does not impact the following: "One of our mantras for ESO is "play the way you want," and in this case, it means any class can fulfill any role (tank, dps, support/healer). To better achieve this ideal while also maintaining the unique fantasy flavor of each class, all class kits need to include the basic tools required to fulfill each role. To be clear, our goal is for every class to be viable, not necessarily optimal, in any role without heavily relying on non-class skill lines."

Moreover, it doesn't really apply to the old way it was used either. You still can battle, craft, siege, steal, and explore without any Champion Points at all.

Ittrix

Yeaah this game has never been 'play how you want' unless you're okay doing really poorly.
Best way to view it is every class can use every non class skill line and fit any role. Take it any further than that and it falls apart real quick.

SeaArcanist

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.

well do tell us Zo's text book definition then plz. because "play how you want" to me, implies the above.

novemberhhh

you can play any game however you want
dont be surprised if it isnt always effective

VaranisArano

SeaArcanist wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.

well do tell us Zo's text book definition then plz. because "play how you want" to me, implies the above.

Sorry, I have since edited my post to add the references. This is one of those marketing phrases that ZOS seems to use in specific ways, while players seem to interpret it in many different ways.

I mean, I've seen people complain that ESO isn't "play the way I want" because they couldn't side with Mannimarco, for instance. Or because their heavy armored hybrid build they used to tank overland content wasn't optimal for the group content they were attempting.

There's are limits to the "play the way we want" idea - we have a lot of freedom within the Game design, but not a lot of freedom to radically alter the Game design to fit our desires. Even under the old CP 1.0 system, we had to make choices about what passives we unlocked. We have to make choices about which skills to put on our hot bar and where to equip our limited skill points. CP 2.0 isn't much different. We still can do everything in game appropriate to our level and skill without all our CP in place, we just may not be optimal.

SeaArcanist

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.


Specifically, the last time the Devs referenced this phrase, it was in the context of class viability in different roles. The new CP 2.0 system does not impact the following: "One of our mantras for ESO is "play the way you want," and in this case, it means any class can fulfill any role (tank, dps, support/healer). To better achieve this ideal while also maintaining the unique fantasy flavor of each class, all class kits need to include the basic tools required to fulfill each role. To be clear, our goal is for every class to be viable, not necessarily optimal, in any role without heavily relying on non-class skill lines."

Moreover, it doesn't really apply to the old way it was used either. You still can battle, craft, siege, steal, and explore without any Champion Points at all.

"or join a battle of thousands!" <- lol. more like 200, with lag

Stanx

Do you really need to create two threads on the exact same topic made within 30 min of each other??

Kwoung

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.

Did they actually define "Play as you want" somewhere or as most things, they left it up to the reader to define in their own mind? (honest question)

As for me, I WANT to be able to Harvest, Treasure Hunt, Fish, and do some Thieving related things without having to spend 3K gold each time I change my mind on what I feel like doing at that particular moment. If I was able to spend my Craft tree points where I wanted, this wouldn't be an issue. As it stands now, I will have to be close to if not CP 3600 to fully enjoy the activities I want to partake in without going broke.

By "fully enjoy" I mean, being able to put the points in to make the most out of those activities. For now with my mere 1065 CP I have been able to put points in Treasure Hunting, Harvesting and processing mats. I tried to do some thieving, but knowing that I could sneak better now, get better rewards and generally be more successful at it IF I had points over there or I want to go 3K in the hole before starting, pretty much sucked the fun right out of an activity I used to really enjoy. Sure, respects are free today, but won't be soon, and micro-managing my CP trees every time I want to engage in a different activity even after I earn my 3600 CP, is definitely NOT how I want to play.

VaranisArano

SeaArcanist wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.


Specifically, the last time the Devs referenced this phrase, it was in the context of class viability in different roles. The new CP 2.0 system does not impact the following: "One of our mantras for ESO is "play the way you want," and in this case, it means any class can fulfill any role (tank, dps, support/healer). To better achieve this ideal while also maintaining the unique fantasy flavor of each class, all class kits need to include the basic tools required to fulfill each role. To be clear, our goal is for every class to be viable, not necessarily optimal, in any role without heavily relying on non-class skill lines."

Moreover, it doesn't really apply to the old way it was used either. You still can battle, craft, siege, steal, and explore without any Champion Points at all.

"or join a battle of thousands!" <- lol. more like 200, with lag

Yeah, well, I did say it was the old definition. Looking back at old ads for Cyrodiil is pretty sad.

Mindcr0w

SeaArcanist wrote: »

when i obtain 2k champ points, ill be able to play how i want, essentualy.

I'm not defending ZOS here, but lets be realistic. You don't need to get to 2k cp at the exclusion of everything else. That is a choice you are making. That is essentially what you want to do, whether you enjoy it or not.

And that is coming from someone who will be spending much of his game time getting to 2k cp at the exclusion of everything else. It is a choice, not a necessity. Nobody needs to min/max to this degree.

The_Old_Goat

To me "play any way you want" means within the parameters of your gear, level or skills, not just an open statement meaning you can accomplish anything you want in whatever amount of time you think it should it take. To comprehend the mantra in any other meaning is completely on you.

Jusey1

I play how I want and I tend to have very successful and working builds. Sure, you can't play how you want if you're min-maxing every little detail but that is your choice to do. It isn't necessary.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

You can play how you want. It just isn't guaranteed to be meta and is variable.

ghost_bg_ESO

It is still "play how you want", considering how nerfed base content is.
i still remember how i've played the way i want - using attributes and skill and armors without keeping much attention neither for level nor for improvement, game was actually challenging and thing didn't melted on one shot, and game wasn't even nerfed as it is now. I had to improve when i've started to look at dungeons for solo runs, but until that moment i have finished all overland quests available.

Katahdin

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaArcanist wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.

well do tell us Zo's text book definition then plz. because "play how you want" to me, implies the above.

Sorry, I have since edited my post to add the references. This is one of those marketing phrases that ZOS seems to use in specific ways, while players seem to interpret it in many different ways.

I mean, I've seen people complain that ESO isn't "play the way I want" because they couldn't side with Mannimarco, for instance. Or because their heavy armored hybrid build they used to tank overland content wasn't optimal for the group content they were attempting.

There's are limits to the "play the way we want" idea - we have a lot of freedom within the Game design, but not a lot of freedom to radically alter the Game design to fit our desires. Even under the old CP 1.0 system, we had to make choices about what passives we unlocked. We have to make choices about which skills to put on our hot bar and where to equip our limited skill points. CP 2.0 isn't much different. We still can do everything in game appropriate to our level and skill without all our CP in place, we just may not be optimal.

I agree and I am willing to bet ZoS regrets ever using the phrase "play how you want" because its been misinterpreted since day 1.

SeaArcanist

Katahdin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaArcanist wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.

well do tell us Zo's text book definition then plz. because "play how you want" to me, implies the above.

Sorry, I have since edited my post to add the references. This is one of those marketing phrases that ZOS seems to use in specific ways, while players seem to interpret it in many different ways.

I mean, I've seen people complain that ESO isn't "play the way I want" because they couldn't side with Mannimarco, for instance. Or because their heavy armored hybrid build they used to tank overland content wasn't optimal for the group content they were attempting.

There's are limits to the "play the way we want" idea - we have a lot of freedom within the Game design, but not a lot of freedom to radically alter the Game design to fit our desires. Even under the old CP 1.0 system, we had to make choices about what passives we unlocked. We have to make choices about which skills to put on our hot bar and where to equip our limited skill points. CP 2.0 isn't much different. We still can do everything in game appropriate to our level and skill without all our CP in place, we just may not be optimal.

I agree and I am willing to bet ZoS regrets ever using the phrase "play how you want" because its been misinterpreted since day 1.

but we're not talking about the other aspect of the game here. just the champion system. where i can almost guarantee ya, they infact marketed it as "unique, and play how you want"

VaranisArano

SeaArcanist wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaArcanist wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.

well do tell us Zo's text book definition then plz. because "play how you want" to me, implies the above.

Sorry, I have since edited my post to add the references. This is one of those marketing phrases that ZOS seems to use in specific ways, while players seem to interpret it in many different ways.

I mean, I've seen people complain that ESO isn't "play the way I want" because they couldn't side with Mannimarco, for instance. Or because their heavy armored hybrid build they used to tank overland content wasn't optimal for the group content they were attempting.

There's are limits to the "play the way we want" idea - we have a lot of freedom within the Game design, but not a lot of freedom to radically alter the Game design to fit our desires. Even under the old CP 1.0 system, we had to make choices about what passives we unlocked. We have to make choices about which skills to put on our hot bar and where to equip our limited skill points. CP 2.0 isn't much different. We still can do everything in game appropriate to our level and skill without all our CP in place, we just may not be optimal.

I agree and I am willing to bet ZoS regrets ever using the phrase "play how you want" because its been misinterpreted since day 1.

but we're not talking about the other aspect of the game here. just the champion system. where i can almost guarantee ya, they infact marketed it as "unique, and play how you want"

Okay. Can you show me the source for that, referring to the Champion system? Serious question here, because I actually like to save ZOS quotes for when they inevitably come up in discussions.

SeaArcanist

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaArcanist wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaArcanist wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.

well do tell us Zo's text book definition then plz. because "play how you want" to me, implies the above.

Sorry, I have since edited my post to add the references. This is one of those marketing phrases that ZOS seems to use in specific ways, while players seem to interpret it in many different ways.

I mean, I've seen people complain that ESO isn't "play the way I want" because they couldn't side with Mannimarco, for instance. Or because their heavy armored hybrid build they used to tank overland content wasn't optimal for the group content they were attempting.

There's are limits to the "play the way we want" idea - we have a lot of freedom within the Game design, but not a lot of freedom to radically alter the Game design to fit our desires. Even under the old CP 1.0 system, we had to make choices about what passives we unlocked. We have to make choices about which skills to put on our hot bar and where to equip our limited skill points. CP 2.0 isn't much different. We still can do everything in game appropriate to our level and skill without all our CP in place, we just may not be optimal.

I agree and I am willing to bet ZoS regrets ever using the phrase "play how you want" because its been misinterpreted since day 1.

but we're not talking about the other aspect of the game here. just the champion system. where i can almost guarantee ya, they infact marketed it as "unique, and play how you want"

Okay. Can you show me the source for that, referring to the Champion system? Serious question here, because I actually like to save ZOS quotes for when they inevitably come up in discussions.

i tried to look for them, but ZOS as seemingly deleted patch notes prior of 2016 :c so anythign from 2014 refering and tlaking about it, or when it was effectivl yreleased. or ANY comentary. is unviewable. either thta or im an idiot XD

SeaArcanist

so any references to it from 14/15 arnt viewable. in the forums at least

Goregrinder

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.


Specifically, the last time the Devs referenced this phrase, it was in the context of class viability in different roles. The new CP 2.0 system does not impact the following: "One of our mantras for ESO is "play the way you want," and in this case, it means any class can fulfill any role (tank, dps, support/healer). To better achieve this ideal while also maintaining the unique fantasy flavor of each class, all class kits need to include the basic tools required to fulfill each role. To be clear, our goal is for every class to be viable, not necessarily optimal, in any role without heavily relying on non-class skill lines."

Moreover, it doesn't really apply to the old way it was used either. You still can battle, craft, siege, steal, and explore without any Champion Points at all.

Empirical evidence...I like your style sir!

amm7sb14_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.


Specifically, the last time the Devs referenced this phrase, it was in the context of class viability in different roles. The new CP 2.0 system does not impact the following: "One of our mantras for ESO is "play the way you want," and in this case, it means any class can fulfill any role (tank, dps, support/healer). To better achieve this ideal while also maintaining the unique fantasy flavor of each class, all class kits need to include the basic tools required to fulfill each role. To be clear, our goal is for every class to be viable, not necessarily optimal, in any role without heavily relying on non-class skill lines."

Moreover, it doesn't really apply to the old way it was used either. You still can battle, craft, siege, steal, and explore without any Champion Points at all.

You, and I, and everyone else in this thread, and everyone else not in this thread, all know that "Play As You Want" was to capitalize on what makes Elder Scrolls so endearing to many people, in being that there are little to no limitations on what you can do with your character. If it is a skill in the game, you can use it in any capacity and combined with any other skills as you see fit. The marketing was aimed to capitalize on that, but it never delivered.

And while one may talk about "MMO v. single player" and the balance that is required of that, the fact that other MMO's were able to successfully do "Play As You Want" much better than ELDER SCROLLS Online (I reference pre-CU SWG as evidence), I don't think it is unreasonable to feel a sense of disappointment when all CP trees are going to end up looking the same, because the skills you want for your character are gated behind the skills you don't want, or to feel a sense of disappointment that, while "all classes can effectively play all roles", the number of effective classes is actually 4: Tank, Stam Dps, Mag Dps, and Healer... because while each class may have different skills, the effects those skills use all end up the same anyways. Tanks taunt, Major Resolve, Breach & Fracture, CC, and self heal. DPS have AOE DOT's, delayed burst, spammable. Healers have AOE HOT's, burst heals, Combat Prayer, and Ele Drain. Regardless of class, roles are all expected to wear the same sets within their role, wear the same glyphs within their role, have the same traits on their weapons and armor within their role, and have the same CP setups within their role. So there is little flexibility to "play as you want", because even if you're using a different class, the only thing individualizing your character is your style pages you're wearing, and whether your Major Resolve is bone spines coming out of your back in the case of a Necro tank, or iced armor covering your body in the case of a Warden tank, or faux invisibility in the case of a Nightblade tank. There is little to no build flexibility or variety, and in a game marketed as "Play As You Want", and a game under the ELDER SCROLLS IP, it's very reasonable to feel a sense of disappointment over being misled.

VaranisArano

SeaArcanist wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaArcanist wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaArcanist wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's not what "play the way you want" means.

well do tell us Zo's text book definition then plz. because "play how you want" to me, implies the above.

Sorry, I have since edited my post to add the references. This is one of those marketing phrases that ZOS seems to use in specific ways, while players seem to interpret it in many different ways.

I mean, I've seen people complain that ESO isn't "play the way I want" because they couldn't side with Mannimarco, for instance. Or because their heavy armored hybrid build they used to tank overland content wasn't optimal for the group content they were attempting.

There's are limits to the "play the way we want" idea - we have a lot of freedom within the Game design, but not a lot of freedom to radically alter the Game design to fit our desires. Even under the old CP 1.0 system, we had to make choices about what passives we unlocked. We have to make choices about which skills to put on our hot bar and where to equip our limited skill points. CP 2.0 isn't much different. We still can do everything in game appropriate to our level and skill without all our CP in place, we just may not be optimal.

I agree and I am willing to bet ZoS regrets ever using the phrase "play how you want" because its been misinterpreted since day 1.

but we're not talking about the other aspect of the game here. just the champion system. where i can almost guarantee ya, they infact marketed it as "unique, and play how you want"

Okay. Can you show me the source for that, referring to the Champion system? Serious question here, because I actually like to save ZOS quotes for when they inevitably come up in discussions.

i tried to look for them, but ZOS as seemingly deleted patch notes prior of 2016 :c so anythign from 2014 refering and tlaking about it, or when it was effectivl yreleased. or ANY comentary. is unviewable. either thta or im an idiot XD

Yeah, the forums don't have all of them. Odd.

The official site is a little painful to search, but they have some prior to 2016, as with the Craglorn patch: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/969

The UESP wiki also has some: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Patch

The Champion Points 1.0 was introduced during Update 6, if that helps. There's some official material like this, though perhaps you'll find more: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/25021