Is ZoS considering compensating veteran players for the experience they lost at all?

Ittrix

Yeah yeah another one of these. I'm not interested in discussing whether this is a valid issue. Plenty of other pages for that. I just want to know if ZoS is aware of the discontent and if they're planning on doing anything about it or keeping an eye on it.

To be more specific, this is the kind of situation I'm talking about: I've gathered 300,000,000 experience to be CP 1000. In the new patch, 300,000,000 would net me CP 2000. To get there instead now, I'll need to gather 200,000,000 more experience. In other words, 200,000,000 of my current experience counts for nothing with my CP. I can't access it at all or interact with it. In other words, it's lost and useless to me. CP 2000 isn't a new power level either- it's approximately the power I was at before the patch. I know before the patch dropped the answer was no, CP will not be converted, but now that folks have actually processed what that means is that going to change? Is anyone at ZoS even considering it? A lot of veteran players feel robbed of both their experience and time, real issue or not.

So, what's the game plan over there @ZOS_GinaBruno?

Brynhiild

My big guess is a NO... This XP is lost and since a majority of players are happy with those changes (or saying to the unhappy ones they're crying because of entitlement or something) i don't think they'll even think about this "issue". Old players can just rot away with their lost XP...

amm7sb14_ESO

Ittrix wrote: »

Can't change my mind and I don't want you to. I just want to know if ZoS is doing anything about the topic or not.

Nothing was lost, so there is nothing for ZOS to compensate. So no, they won't. Nor should they.

Can't change my mind and I don't want you to.

thorwyn

Is ZoS considering compensating veteran players for the experience they lost at all? Bookmark

no.

TejasEric

Something was absolutely lost. But they won’t do anything even though they should and people like me that canceled their subscriptions won’t subscribe again. ZOS doesn’t care about Veteran players only new players. So they’re happy to run us off.

trackdemon5512

You lost nothing.

It’s been explained many many times over that the system doesn’t take your total XP and convert it to CP

taylorwilenskiub17_ESO

You lost nothing. Look at WoW for example when they increase the level cap. Many max level players could technically play enough hours that would have netted them an additional 10-15 levels, but they still need to climb to the new level cap like everyone else once a new expansion comes out. Why should this be any different?

If they never showed you how much XP you were getting and stopped your cp number from going over 810 in the first place would you still be complaining?

Just be happy they changed something and you have something to work towards again instead of whining.

essi2

lol, when has ZOS ever compensated for anything?

Elsonso

I have said this before, but I really do think that it is the Champion Point that is what is important, not the Experience Point.

The reason I think this is that, as near as I can tell, a person may have earned 1000 CP, but that does not actually translate into the same number of Experience Points for everyone who has 1000 CP.

People point to some external spreadsheet that tries to compare a Champion Point to some cumulative amount of XP, but that data does not come from ZOS. Just because someone can total rows in a spreadsheet does not mean that the number they arrive at is _your_ number.

lihentian

a race change token would be nice.........

amm7sb14_ESO

There was nothing lost, so no, there's nothing to compensate.

Ittrix

Man I thought I wasn't gonna need this but I guess I will.

"You didn't lose anything!" Yes I did. I will need 200,000,000 more experience to get the same level as other players. What happened to the 200,000,000 I already gained? That experience has been taken away and can't be recovered. In other words, it was lost.
"You've already lost small amounts of CP over numerous patches!" Yeah, I know. When the caps got raised by 30 CP, we lost thousands of experience here and there in the same way. Current CP wasn't altered, new CP was easier to get and each CP point was worth less. That was then and this is now. This is 60% of our current experience. 300,000,000 experience. 2 years of my work. Thousands of CP.
A pie shop might be okay with me shorting them a nickel, but they'd have an issue if I hopped the counter and took half the cash from their register. That isn't flipping sides. That's called picking your fights.
"Other MMOs like WoW do this!" Okay and? I don't play WoW. That isn't a coincidence. I don't like it when games do that, so I typically don't play nor pay games that do that.
"Just be happy you have progression again." I didn't want progression again.

Can't change my mind and I don't want you to. I just want to know if ZoS is doing anything about the topic or not.

Odde

"You didn't lose anything!" Yes I did. I will need 200,000,000 more experience to get the same level as other players.

Everyone with the exact same CP as you had before has the exact same CP as you now. You're at the exact same level as your peers.

Ittrix

I've more or less guessed the answer is no, but I'd love it if a ZoS member would give me some closure on it.

Elsonso

Ittrix wrote: »

Man I thought I wasn't gonna need this but I guess I will.

"You didn't lose anything!" Yes I did. I will need 200,000,000 more experience to get the same level as other players. What happened to the 200,000,000 I already gained? That experience has been taken away and can't be recovered. In other words, it was lost.
"You've already lost small amounts of CP over numerous patches!" Yeah, I know. When the caps got raised by 30 CP, we lost thousands of experience here and there in the same way. Current CP wasn't altered, new CP was easier to get and each CP point was worth less. That was then and this is now. This is 60% of our current experience. 300,000,000 experience. 2 years of my work. Thousands of CP.
A pie shop might be okay with me shorting them a nickel, but they'd have an issue if I hopped the counter and took half the cash from their register. That isn't flipping sides. That's called picking your fights.
"Other MMOs like WoW do this!" Okay and? I don't play WoW. That isn't a coincidence. I don't like it when games do that, so I typically don't play nor pay games that do that.
"Just be happy you have progression again." I didn't want progression again.

Can't change my mind and I don't want you to. I just want to know if ZoS is doing anything about the topic or not.

Doubt they are going to do anything about it.

The XP rate of earning CP is separate from the Champion System changes. What I see described as "loss of XP" seems to be, in reality, a general nerf of the Champion System. Those might sound like the same thing, but they are not.

If everyone got additional CP based on "XP earned", the result would have been an increase in the median number of Champion Points out there. ZOS has to balance things, and one way to do that might have caused ZOS to nerf the system, out of the gate, to require more CP to get what we have today. People would be getting more CP, but they would need those extra CP to get what we have today because the Champion System would cost more.

The point that seems to be hardest to accept is that we know how many CP we can get for our XP, but we don't know that in reverse. We are not guaranteed an accurate answer when we look at our CP total and try to find out how many XP we spent to get there.

Vevvev

No, the reasoning is the same for why they didn't update the Maelstrom weapons acquired in veteran mode and forced players to regrind. It causes the little players to continue running in the maze for the cheese, and technically you didn't lose anything. It was just made easier to get to that level you're at.

Ittrix

Elsonso wrote: »

If everyone got additional CP based on "XP earned", the result would have been an increase in the median number of Champion Points out there. ZOS has to balance things, and one way to do that might have caused ZOS to nerf the system, out of the gate, to require more CP to get what we have today. People would be getting more CP, but they would need those extra CP to get what we have today because the Champion System would cost more.

I generally like to view it as inflation, or a stock market.
Each point of CP doesn't have a 'set' value, you're right. The amount of experience you need to gain one CP has changed over time, and how much that one point of CP has helped you has also changed over time every time a patch has dropped.

What ZoS has currently done is like when they split stocks. Each point of CP was worth too much and jump points were all over, making it hard for new players to jump into the game. So they halved the 'value' of each CP (both in terms of helpfulness and how much experience one is worth) and doubled the amount of them. Typically though, when the stock market does something like that they also double how many stocks each person has. Because, y'know, otherwise they have less value than before and you're scamming your share holders out of half their money. AKA: exactly what veteran players are complaining about when they say they 'lost' half their experience.

remosito

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

Can't change my mind and I don't want you to. I just want to know if ZoS is doing anything about the topic or not.

Nothing was lost, so there is nothing for ZOS to compensate. So no, they won't. Nor should they.

Can't change my mind and I don't want you to.

I was able to multipurpose my 4 healers and 6 tanks to suck eay less in solo and pvp. I cant anymore. . So don't tell me nothing was lost.

Tandor

Would someone who's making these complaints please explain to me how many CPs they have now compared to before, and how many CPs they claim to have therefore lost as a result of these changes? I'm guessing the answer to the second half of my question is zero, but I'm willing to be convinced to the contrary so far as the number of lost CPs is concerned.

Ittrix

Tandor wrote: »

Would someone who's making these complaints please explain to me how many CPs they have now compared to before, and how many CPs they claim to have therefore lost as a result of these changes? I'm guessing the answer to the second half of my question is zero, but I'm willing to be convinced to the contrary so far as the number of lost CPs is concerned.

Assuming this is an actual question: it's not CP directly being lost, it's the value of those CP being lost without the effort for those CP being considered.
A fine example is the green tree. If you wanted to harvest twice as fast and get a chance to double gain from nodes, you would need 75 points, or a CP level of 225. If you want to get back those same passives, you need closer to 150 points, or a CP level of 440-ish. So if you were CP 300, you would have lost those passives and have to grind to get them again.
It would be fine if the devs just thought you should get more experience before you get access to those perks... but they don't. Under the new system you don't actually need more experience. They just didn't consider your current CP, so you slipped through the cracks and got boned.

It's like if you worked for 400 bucks a year for two years, but then suddenly the minimum wage shot up to double. Okay, maybe that's fine, but what about the work I did over two years? My 800 bucks won't get me as far as it did before, since now the game is balanced around me having 1600 bucks.

Just replace money for CP and minimum wage for experience per CP and there's the core of the issue.


I worked for 500 CP a year myself for the last two years, and now suddenly the game gives people CP twice as fast and expects everyone to have twice as much CP. Okay, fine, I can work with that, but I don't feel justly paid for my efforts over the last two years now. Since this is a game, if they'd double my CP just like how they doubled the rates and halved the values, everyone would be happy.

Ranger209

Your compensation is 3 billion less XP required to get to 3600 you will now get there in less than half the time. Think forward, not backward.

Ittrix

Ranger209 wrote: »

Your compensation is 3 billion less XP required to get to 3600 you will now get there in less than half the time. Think forward, not backward.

Yes, but I will now get to the vertical cap in double the time, and I don't care for anything past that. So, still an issue for me.
Aside- that isn't my compensation. Everyone gets that.

Tandor

Ittrix wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Would someone who's making these complaints please explain to me how many CPs they have now compared to before, and how many CPs they claim to have therefore lost as a result of these changes? I'm guessing the answer to the second half of my question is zero, but I'm willing to be convinced to the contrary so far as the number of lost CPs is concerned.

Assuming this is an actual question: it's not CP directly being lost, it's the value of those CP being lost without the effort for those CP being considered.
A fine example is the green tree. If you wanted to harvest twice as fast and get a chance to double gain from nodes, you would need 75 points, or a CP level of 225. If you want to get back those same passives, you need closer to 150 points, or a CP level of 440-ish. So if you were CP 300, you would have lost those passives and have to grind to get them again.
It would be fine if the devs just thought you should get more experience before you get access to those perks... but they don't. Under the new system you don't actually need more experience. They just didn't consider your current CP, so you slipped through the cracks and got boned.

It's like if you worked for 400 bucks a year for two years, but then suddenly the minimum wage shot up to double. Okay, maybe that's fine, but what about the work I did over two years? My 800 bucks won't get me as far as it did before, since now the game is balanced around me having 1600 bucks.

Just replace money for CP and minimum wage for experience per CP and there's the core of the issue.


I worked for 500 CP a year myself for the last two years, and now suddenly the game gives people CP twice as fast and expects everyone to have twice as much CP. Okay, fine, I can work with that, but I don't feel justly paid for my efforts over the last two years now. Since this is a game, if they'd double my CP just like how they doubled the rates and halved the values, everyone would be happy.

Thanks, you've answered my question and as expected the answer was zero. And yes, it was an actual question.

Your salary analogy is nonsense. When I left college in 1973 I was hired on a certain level of salary. When someone else was recruited a year later with a lesser qualification but on higher salary, should I have gone to my employer and demanded a retrospective increase? Of course not, just like when I bought an item in a shop for full price and a week later someone else went into the shop and bought the same item on offer at half the price I paid. These things happen, get over it. At least you now have a use for all those pointless CPs you had over the cap under the previous system. If people can't cope with changes then they shouldn't play MMOs as those games never stand still and changes always please some and not others but can never please everyone all of the time.

PizzaCat82

Its okay to be mad. Your complaints about having less power compared to previously are valid. However, its not really realistic to expect them to compensate "lost XP" when they just made lower levels easier. It still takes time to grind, and lower levels will have to catch up to you before they even worry about gaining more levels.

They've readjusted the XP needed every time they've raised the cap. Every single time. They've rebalanced skills, nerfed sets, and changed CP. Not once did they ever compensate people for this, and it would be crazy to update everyone's account.

So my advice is to suck it up, wait for the next event (this month), pop a potion or scroll, and start doing those quests/dolmens/skyreach/etc.

NoSoup

Yeah, we got/get a free pet.....

Ittrix

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

They've readjusted the XP needed every time they've raised the cap. Every single time. They've rebalanced skills, nerfed sets, and changed CP. Not once did they ever compensate people for this, and it would be crazy to update everyone's account

Ittrix wrote: »

"You've already lost small amounts of CP over numerous patches!" Yeah, I know. When the caps got raised by 30 CP, we lost thousands of experience here and there in the same way. Current CP wasn't altered, new CP was easier to get and each CP point was worth less. That was then and this is now. This is 60% of our current experience. 300,000,000 experience. 2 years of my work. Thousands of CP.
A pie shop might be okay with me shorting them a nickel, but they'd have an issue if I hopped the counter and took half the cash from their register. That isn't flipping sides. That's called picking your fights..

Aside, yes, ZoS *has* updated everyone's accounts to compensate before. Veteran Rank System.
http://esoacademy.com/faq/veteran-rank-champion-rank-conversion/#:~:text=When Update 10 happens your,before the change to CP.

Elsonso

Ittrix wrote: »

Aside, yes, ZoS *has* updated everyone's accounts to compensate before. Veteran Rank System.
http://esoacademy.com/faq/veteran-rank-champion-rank-conversion/#:~:text=When Update 10 happens your,before the change to CP.

Not the same thing.

Ittrix

Tandor wrote: »

Your salary analogy is nonsense. When I left college in 1973 I was hired on a certain level of salary. When someone else was recruited a year later with a lesser qualification but on higher salary, should I have gone to my employer and demanded a retrospective increase?

I won't speak for that exact situation, but I'm gonna guess your pay went up in 1974 based in part on the inflation. Since, as each buck was worth less and they're trying to reward you the same for your work in that respect they have to you give you more bucks.
Y'know, like how ZoS is making each CP worth less and they're trying to reward the players the same for their gameplay, so they give you more CP?

Obviously a business wouldn't pay you extra to make up for the value lost in your wages in 1973 due to inflation, since that comes out of their pockets and isn't entirely fair to them. You can do other things to make sure your effort retained it's value.
In ZoS' case they 100% can wave a wand and make your last year of effort equal to the next. Sure, maybe it'd be a hassle to do it every time the CP went up by 30, but if they were to ever do something drastic like say, increasing the CP vertical cap by 1000 then they might want to consider it.

Ittrix

Elsonso wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

Aside, yes, ZoS *has* updated everyone's accounts to compensate before. Veteran Rank System.
http://esoacademy.com/faq/veteran-rank-champion-rank-conversion/#:~:text=When Update 10 happens your,before the change to CP.

Not the same thing.

Not exactly, no, but why is that a problem?

DMuehlhausen

What exactly did you lose? If you were CP 1000 when the content hit you are still CP 1000....

If you want to talk about the loss because they lowered how much each level takes...meh welcome to how it's always done. I'm guessing part of the reason is there are some people that would have boosted well past 3600 and they didn't want that.

Crazyprophet

At some point you need to allow catch-up in games like this. Otherwise all the power rests in the hands of not the most skilled players, but those who have played the longest. And that's a terrible system.

Nobody lost anything. Those who grinded harder over the years still have an advantage, an edge over their newer peers. It's just easier for people to catch up now.

So no I doubt ZOS will do anything and frankly I hope they don't.