My absolute biggest problem with the new cp system that absolutely pisses me off

Anthonyr87

So they give us a new cp system, thats all fine. they raise the level from 810 to 3600, again cool. The grind to level up is insanely lowered so you gain new cp points at a much faster rate, great. the problem here is how they implemented it from the old system. Instead of taking into account the amount of xp you have earned total to calculate your new cp score, they have instead chosen to just keep your cp score as is, giving you the same amount of skill points to spend, and increasing the cost of each perk. So we have basically been robbed of levels and and robbed blind of xp we have earned over the years, they just expect us to grind our way back to being as strong as we were, and then some. Instead we should have been given a new level based on xp earned. But no, that would have been too obvious for zos

Merlin13KAGL

They don't expect you to grind back to as strong as you were. You're not getting back to as strong as you were.

All that aside, you could have piggy backed on one of 15 other threads whining about the same thing instead of starting a new one.

Be content they've broken the game and move on.

kargen27

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

beadabow

Okay, so this is my take on the new CP system:

Emotionally- I am not happy with it, a little angry, and I feel cheated.

Rationally- I am okay with it. The damage I could do before the change was plenty enough to handle all the content, and excessive for most of the content. More than I needed. It was nice, but not necessary to have insanely high damage output. Experiments today proved I can still do enough damage for just about anything, it's just not insanely high anymore. And the new design of the CP system is intriguing- I just hope they open up more slots for the stars, as having to choose between damage output and damage mitigation really bites. Give us eight slots per tree instead of four, and I think I can manage.

Overall, yes I dislike some of the changes with the new CP system, but not to the point of wanting to quit playing. I can still accomplish a lot of content easily, but some of the changes are too drastic in my opinion, and the limitations are too numerous.

jle30303

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

No, we are not where we were.

Unless you can spend, say, 200 CP to achieve the same power bonuses that 200 CP got you before: unless you can spend 810 CP to achieve the same power bonuses that 810 CP got you before: you are NOT where you were before. In fact many of us are nowhere near.

I had 718 CP before the change: that 718 CP cost me enough actual XP under the old system that spending the same amount of XP would have got me about 1200 CP. BUT, the actual usefulness of the 718 CP under the new system gives me about the strength that something like 250-300 CP would have got me under the old system. Even when I get up to 1200 CP after the change, I won't have all the same capabilities that my old 700-CP character had.

And a great proportion of our CPs will be wasted because of the whole star system, so anything put in a "champion bar" star that is not currently in use, is wasted.

merpins

jle30303 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

No, we are not where we were.

Unless you can spend, say, 200 CP to achieve the same power bonuses that 200 CP got you before: unless you can spend 810 CP to achieve the same power bonuses that 810 CP got you before: you are NOT where you were before. In fact many of us are nowhere near.

I had 718 CP before the change: that 718 CP cost me enough actual XP under the old system that spending the same amount of XP would have got me about 1200 CP. BUT, the actual usefulness of the 718 CP under the new system gives me about the strength that something like 250-300 CP would have got me under the old system. Even when I get up to 1200 CP after the change, I won't have all the same capabilities that my old 700-CP character had.

And a great proportion of our CPs will be wasted because of the whole star system, so anything put in a "champion bar" star that is not currently in use, is wasted.

Same boat, around 720 cp. Except I only have the time to play an hour or two every other day after work, and I've been playing since Beta. So It'll take me a few years to get to the soft cap (the approximate power I had before adjusted for the new system), I reckon, whereas if they gave me the exp I earned, I'd either already be there or be able to get there in a few months.

Kurat

jle30303 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

No, we are not where we were.

Unless you can spend, say, 200 CP to achieve the same power bonuses that 200 CP got you before: unless you can spend 810 CP to achieve the same power bonuses that 810 CP got you before: you are NOT where you were before. In fact many of us are nowhere near.

I had 718 CP before the change: that 718 CP cost me enough actual XP under the old system that spending the same amount of XP would have got me about 1200 CP. BUT, the actual usefulness of the 718 CP under the new system gives me about the strength that something like 250-300 CP would have got me under the old system. Even when I get up to 1200 CP after the change, I won't have all the same capabilities that my old 700-CP character had.

And a great proportion of our CPs will be wasted because of the whole star system, so anything put in a "champion bar" star that is not currently in use, is wasted.

What you dont seem to realize is that the cp 1.0 and 2.0 are not comparable. Your current cp didn't put you back like cp300 used to be. Its completely new system and buffs nerfed, it's not scalable. With 3600cp you will not be even close to old 810cp. At 700cp currently you are already almost at max dps potential, maybe like 5% more to gain. Dont worry about the cp and enjoy the game.

Ratzkifal

I really don't get the people that are complaining about this now. Did you all forget how things used to be back when the cap was raised every update by 30? Nobody was being compensated for that either and it was the same deal. The CP values carried over 1:1 and newer players were allowed to catch up faster by an adjustment of the curve.
We already got the "reward" that people are asking for. It's that ZOS allowed us to exceed 810CP for years and that number is being recognized now. That you worked your ass off to be at 2000 CP today isn't being tossed out the window because you can start at 2000CP today while new players still need to put in that effort, even if it will take them less effort than it took you. Anyone who is complaining about it now should have been complaining about this years ago already.
The only thing that's different this time compared to how things used to work is that the old cap is now below the halfway point of the new cap, but at least according to ZOS someone with 200CP in the old system has the same power as someone with 200CP in the new system, so nobody should be losing power.
In other games once you reach max level, you are done. You can't keep leveling after that, so what are you complaining about if ZOS allows that but at a decelerated pace? You've lost nothing, you only gained and now people are upset because they didn't gain as much as they wanted? Why? You knew what you were getting yourself into, so if you don't like catch-up mechanics you should have stopped playing once you reached the cap until the next increase by 30 comes around, but something tells me nobody did that because nobody cared. So why care now?

Anthonyr87

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

no, we are nowhere near where we were. all the perks we had cost even more to get back now.

Anthonyr87

beadabow wrote: »

Okay, so this is my take on the new CP system:

Emotionally- I am not happy with it, a little angry, and I feel cheated.

Rationally- I am okay with it. The damage I could do before the change was plenty enough to handle all the content, and excessive for most of the content. More than I needed. It was nice, but not necessary to have insanely high damage output. Experiments today proved I can still do enough damage for just about anything, it's just not insanely high anymore. And the new design of the CP system is intriguing- I just hope they open up more slots for the stars, as having to choose between damage output and damage mitigation really bites. Give us eight slots per tree instead of four, and I think I can manage.

Overall, yes I dislike some of the changes with the new CP system, but not to the point of wanting to quit playing. I can still accomplish a lot of content easily, but some of the changes are too drastic in my opinion, and the limitations are too numerous.

for me its not just about the damage, we have to spend more points to get the damage back, but all the passives like gathering stuff, or getting better loot in chests had to be sacrificed until im able to earn more points to get them back. they legit should have made it count by xp instead of just going off of the level we were at. back when it switched from veteran ranks to cp they took xp into consideration for it. this time they didnt

Anthonyr87

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

No, we are not where we were.

Unless you can spend, say, 200 CP to achieve the same power bonuses that 200 CP got you before: unless you can spend 810 CP to achieve the same power bonuses that 810 CP got you before: you are NOT where you were before. In fact many of us are nowhere near.

I had 718 CP before the change: that 718 CP cost me enough actual XP under the old system that spending the same amount of XP would have got me about 1200 CP. BUT, the actual usefulness of the 718 CP under the new system gives me about the strength that something like 250-300 CP would have got me under the old system. Even when I get up to 1200 CP after the change, I won't have all the same capabilities that my old 700-CP character had.

And a great proportion of our CPs will be wasted because of the whole star system, so anything put in a "champion bar" star that is not currently in use, is wasted.

Same boat, around 720 cp. Except I only have the time to play an hour or two every other day after work, and I've been playing since Beta. So It'll take me a few years to get to the soft cap (the approximate power I had before adjusted for the new system), I reckon, whereas if they gave me the exp I earned, I'd either already be there or be able to get there in a few months.

dude, ive been playing since beta too and due to work theres no way ill ever be able to get back to where i was. i just got to 810 last year

Anthonyr87

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I really don't get the people that are complaining about this now. Did you all forget how things used to be back when the cap was raised every update by 30? Nobody was being compensated for that either and it was the same deal. The CP values carried over 1:1 and newer players were allowed to catch up faster by an adjustment of the curve.
We already got the "reward" that people are asking for. It's that ZOS allowed us to exceed 810CP for years and that number is being recognized now. That you worked your ass off to be at 2000 CP today isn't being tossed out the window because you can start at 2000CP today while new players still need to put in that effort, even if it will take them less effort than it took you. Anyone who is complaining about it now should have been complaining about this years ago already.
The only thing that's different this time compared to how things used to work is that the old cap is now below the halfway point of the new cap, but at least according to ZOS someone with 200CP in the old system has the same power as someone with 200CP in the new system, so nobody should be losing power.
In other games once you reach max level, you are done. You can't keep leveling after that, so what are you complaining about if ZOS allows that but at a decelerated pace? You've lost nothing, you only gained and now people are upset because they didn't gain as much as they wanted? Why? You knew what you were getting yourself into, so if you don't like catch-up mechanics you should have stopped playing once you reached the cap until the next increase by 30 comes around, but something tells me nobody did that because nobody cared. So why care now?

dude if you think weve gained anything here you clearly havent paid a bit of attention to all the legitimate points people have made about what has been taken away. they stole xp from us. that is literally an objective fact.

f047ys3v3n

The whole goal of having caps / higher costs for later points is to keep the older players who got in first from being forever the top dogs and discouraging others from ever starting the game to begin with. It's not a bad thing though I am a little surprised at just how low they have now made the XP per CP relative to the past. And before you carp about how I must be some johnny come lately, I'm sure I lost more hypothetical points than you. I'm at 1.5kcp and was at 800 the day they first dropped a cap so most of those came with a pretty high XP / point number. Also, don't whine like you have been painstakingly grinding CP into the whee hours for the last few years. You and I and everybody else who has been at cap for years has not given a flying mudflap about XP for years and I, for one never thought I would be uncapped again. Even with the cap lifting, I'm not about to start caring now though I would be singing a very different toon if I was at 810 because I have an alt account there and placing points on that account is super painful.

remosito

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

except vertical progression cap would already do that with flatter curve. without screwing vet players.

Or give more enlightenment to lowbies would work too.

zaria

CP cap increases has always kept your cp at current level at least past cap. Don't remember if I gained free CP on cap increase back then I was cp 3-400 and cap was in the 600 range.

And I did not expect them to jump me up to cp 2300 anyway but would not complain about 900 free cp.
Dps looks the same but only done one of the new dungeons in normal and an world boss.

Stahlor

Next step for ZOS to keep people busy- increase gear cap and make sure, that the sticker book doesn't work to upgrade!

barney2525

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

They don't expect you to grind back to as strong as you were. You're not getting back to as strong as you were.

All that aside, you could have piggy backed on one of 15 other threads whining about the same thing instead of starting a new one.

Be content they've broken the game and move on.

Then how come your actual stats are so much higher?

Oh yeah. Didn't bother to factor in the increases in the effect of your base stats. Or the increases in the stats applied by passives of armor and weapon and skills and race.

Your character will be just as powerful as it was when you went to bed on March 7th

Thorley23_ESO

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

Actually they are saying that to the media:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidjagneaux/2021/03/08/flames-of-ambition-dungeon-dlc-and-update-29-now-live-for-elder-scrolls-online-on-pc-mac-and-stadia/?sh=3208d087e360

The problem is that it's an outright lie as anyone with a DPS meter can tell you.

Uvi_AUT

You guys do realize that in almost any other mmorpg your powerlevel gets reset at least every 2 years.
For those of us that dont only play ESO this is a perfectly normal occurance.

remosito

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

You guys do realize that in almost any other mmorpg your powerlevel gets reset at least every 2 years.
For those of us that dont only play ESO this is a perfectly normal occurance.

just because they do x someplace else doesn't mean I should accept it at home.

There's a reason I don't play other mmos.

Uvi_AUT

remosito wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

You guys do realize that in almost any other mmorpg your powerlevel gets reset at least every 2 years.
For those of us that dont only play ESO this is a perfectly normal occurance.

just because they do x someplace else doesn't mean I should accept it at home.

There's a reason I don't play other mmos.

But you see the problem ESO has? Without regular resets players get ridiulously powerful. Up to a point where nothing really is a challenge anymore.
Plus, it gets boring when you are locked into max progresslevel.

AndlatAndometi

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

eh can't disagree more, if i was where i was, my dps, or tanking capability wouldn't have been harmed by it, which it has.
New players want to catch up? Then they better put some time into the game like every veteran has.

remosito

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

You guys do realize that in almost any other mmorpg your powerlevel gets reset at least every 2 years.
For those of us that dont only play ESO this is a perfectly normal occurance.

just because they do x someplace else doesn't mean I should accept it at home.

There's a reason I don't play other mmos.

But you see the problem ESO has? Without regular resets players get ridiulously powerful. Up to a point where nothing really is a challenge anymore.
Plus, it gets boring when you are locked into max progresslevel.

verical progression cap and horizontal progression.

with those 2 there was no reason to dump 60% of our xp. all they did for a lot of vets 1100-1500 range) is to keep us close to the former and rob us from enjoying the latter without reinvesting the thousands of hours they just nuked.

In my case, cp 1200 that took me 4200 hours. They nuked 60%,the equal of 2500 hours.

I would be 1900 with scaling. Not much stronger for most stuff than at 1200 due to vertcap. But I would be able to multispec my chars. they are all heal or tank. with whom i solo/pvp too.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Anthonyr87 wrote: »

So they give us a new cp system, thats all fine. they raise the level from 810 to 3600, again cool. The grind to level up is insanely lowered so you gain new cp points at a much faster rate, great. the problem here is how they implemented it from the old system. Instead of taking into account the amount of xp you have earned total to calculate your new cp score, they have instead chosen to just keep your cp score as is, giving you the same amount of skill points to spend, and increasing the cost of each perk. So we have basically been robbed of levels and and robbed blind of xp we have earned over the years, they just expect us to grind our way back to being as strong as we were, and then some. Instead we should have been given a new level based on xp earned. But no, that would have been too obvious for zos

Wich is exactly how it was done every single time cp cap was raised

remosito

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Anthonyr87 wrote: »

So they give us a new cp system, thats all fine. they raise the level from 810 to 3600, again cool. The grind to level up is insanely lowered so you gain new cp points at a much faster rate, great. the problem here is how they implemented it from the old system. Instead of taking into account the amount of xp you have earned total to calculate your new cp score, they have instead chosen to just keep your cp score as is, giving you the same amount of skill points to spend, and increasing the cost of each perk. So we have basically been robbed of levels and and robbed blind of xp we have earned over the years, they just expect us to grind our way back to being as strong as we were, and then some. Instead we should have been given a new level based on xp earned. But no, that would have been too obvious for zos

Wich is exactly hoe it was done every single time cp cap was raised

because women weren't allowed to vote in every single election since elections were a thing was a legitimate reason to keep them from voting?

sth always having been done in a bad way is so no reason to keep doing it the same way. EVER!

Orion_89

Don't mind what happend at all, but just curious about why didn't ZOS convert xp itself? For the power I feel my character become a bit stronger than before. Sadly vet Vateshran last boss still too hard for me to defeat

Agenericname

Thorley23_ESO wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

Actually they are saying that to the media:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidjagneaux/2021/03/08/flames-of-ambition-dungeon-dlc-and-update-29-now-live-for-elder-scrolls-online-on-pc-mac-and-stadia/?sh=3208d087e360

The problem is that it's an outright lie as anyone with a DPS meter can tell you.

They said if you were able to do content prior to U29, you would be able to after. The example he cited was vMA. They didnt say that we were keeping our DPS.

I havent found that to be inaccurate, yet. A nerf to DPS doesnt necessarily prevent a player(s) from completing content. If that is the case, its certainly worth noting, but I haven't seen an example of it yet.

barney2525

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

They didn't rob you of anything. They put in a way for lower level players to catch up. You are where you were.

eh can't disagree more, if i was where i was, my dps, or tanking capability wouldn't have been harmed by it, which it has.
New players want to catch up? Then they better put some time into the game like every veteran has.

Could ne any number of reasons.

It's a new system so maybe you need to make some other adjustments in you CP expenditure. As well, maybe different sets go better with your CP setup and will get you back to where you want to be.

Kiralyn2000

Anthonyr87 wrote: »

So they give us a new cp system, thats all fine. they raise the level from 810 to 3600, again cool. The grind to level up is insanely lowered so you gain new cp points at a much faster rate, great. the problem here is how they implemented it from the old system. Instead of taking into account the amount of xp you have earned total to calculate your new cp score,

I honestly, literally, do not understand why anyone would think that they would have done that. Seriously. Why would anybody think this would happen, in any game, ever? As someone who's been playing games since the late 70's, I would never think that a game would ever do this.

Is it a modern gamer thing? Is it an entitlement thing? Is it an unfamiliarity with how MMOs have always pulled the earth from under your feet every few patches, and everyone just rolled with it? What is it?


edit: and heck, that's ignoring the "but we're less powerful now!" Yeah, of course you are. The game (along with all the other MMOs) is constantly fighting power creep. If a major patch went by without reducing peoples' power, I'd be surprised.

Merlin13KAGL

barney2525 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

They don't expect you to grind back to as strong as you were. You're not getting back to as strong as you were.

All that aside, you could have piggy backed on one of 15 other threads whining about the same thing instead of starting a new one.

Be content they've broken the game and move on.

Then how come your actual stats are so much higher?

Oh yeah. Didn't bother to factor in the increases in the effect of your base stats. Or the increases in the stats applied by passives of armor and weapon and skills and race.

Your character will be just as powerful as it was when you went to bed on March 7th

Try again, @barney2525 I factored it in by running actual content, content I've been doing religiously lately, and noting the difference. Times, damage output, survivability. I assure you, there is one. This is with over 50% more CP I can place than I could 2 days ago.

The higher stats are to help offset the reduced mitigation from CP's - not a buff. The higher stats are to help offset the reduced mitigation from the armor changes - also not a buff. Are you talking about the double physical weakness and block cost "buff" to Light Armor or the Roll dodge/Magicka weakness "buff" to heavy?

I was able to change to Max stat/Regen combo food that gave me more main stat than Tri stat did and almost double the previous regen, mostly because I didn't feel the need to have 25k health as my new DPS baseline.

So, with higher base stats and an even bigger buff due to food/drink, explain why my "just as strong" character wasn't hitting nearly as hard yet taking way bigger hits than I did before?

We won't even begin to factor in how crit got ravaged.

Race? Races got nerfed, not buffed. That equivalent 200 regen to off stat for Altmer? Super useful to neither stam nor magicka users. Then it rolls on down the line.

How about ULTigen? If you have a Fighter's Guild skill slotted, you lost 6 Ult per daedra/undead, to gain 3 ult per generic kill. Guess which type the game is mostly composed of? Guess which type the newest DLC is likely composed of? If you're magicka based and not using Trap (see crit above), FG is rendered entirely useless, thus losing 9 ULT per kill.

Trash mobs that used to melt in seconds not only linger now, but hit hard enough through all those 'higher stats" that they're back to being reason for caution.

20% lower DPS means 20% higher completion times. If you were low to mid tier DPS, you're going to 'feel' it a lot more than someone that was previously hitting 100k.

If you believe you're just as strong as you were, with almost 50% more points to spend, and with all the threads about multiple classes and roles flying around, you either haven't really played much yet or have a hell of a lot more CP and better build than I do.

The only improvement I've seen so far is to sustain. I guess you're going to need that since everything will take 20% longer to die. Everything but your character, that is.

I went in long enough to see what I needed to see. They half ass tested due to PTS bugs and then pulled some modifiers out of thin air. Now they'll sit back and see how many people they need to *** off before they might start to properly adjust things. I won't be holding my breath.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

remosito wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Anthonyr87 wrote: »

So they give us a new cp system, thats all fine. they raise the level from 810 to 3600, again cool. The grind to level up is insanely lowered so you gain new cp points at a much faster rate, great. the problem here is how they implemented it from the old system. Instead of taking into account the amount of xp you have earned total to calculate your new cp score, they have instead chosen to just keep your cp score as is, giving you the same amount of skill points to spend, and increasing the cost of each perk. So we have basically been robbed of levels and and robbed blind of xp we have earned over the years, they just expect us to grind our way back to being as strong as we were, and then some. Instead we should have been given a new level based on xp earned. But no, that would have been too obvious for zos

Wich is exactly hoe it was done every single time cp cap was raised

because women weren't allowed to vote in every single election since elections were a thing was a legitimate reason to keep them from voting?

sth always having been done in a bad way is so no reason to keep doing it the same way. EVER!

No since that was a real issue
Xp are just number used to determine when you get you next cp and nothing more
Cp are what truly matter and you didnt losse cp level