Green Tree and Addons

Random_Zombie

So now that we've established that anyone who values their time and effort on PC will be using an addon to automatically swap their green CP passives, can we admit that the idea of having a limited number of slots for quality of life passives was a horrible failure? This was preempted by the addition of a 15 sec cooldown for swapping passives so clearly ZOS is aware of what is going on. Do they actually not care that virtually no one wants to play this mind-numbing micromanagement game with their CP?

It's honestly such a bummer I even have to spend so much time on the day of a new patch circumventing these tedious new systems rather than playing the new dungeons.

Kesstryl

I heard it's actually 30 seconds

renne

Oh LMAO there's a cooldown for swapping the passives? Welcome to even a fraction of how much this is going to suck on console, PC players.

Athan1

No, we can't agree it's a horrible failure. We got new exciting buffs that we DIDN'T have before, so yeah we have to be selective, we can't buff everything at once. People nowadays expect maximum rewards with minimum effort, but this leads to player dissatisfaction in the long run.

Pauls

Athan1 wrote: »

No, we can't agree it's a horrible failure. We got new exciting buffs that we DIDN'T have before, so yeah we have to be selective, we can't buff everything at once. People nowadays expect maximum rewards with minimum effort, but this leads to player dissatisfaction in the long run.

Fanboys will defend any crap thrown at them by their idol
Have fun manually swapping passives

MrGhosty

I can get the other two trees requiring slotting as they're leaning towards having power but with tradeoffs. QoL stuff that enhances gameplay outside of combat should just be always on once it gets unlocked.

MasterSpatula

I really wish I could say any of this surprised me, but ZOS has, from Day One, shown itself to be a company who does not treat players like their time has value.

Chilly-McFreeze

Athan1 wrote: »

No, we can't agree it's a horrible failure. We got new exciting buffs that we DIDN'T have before, so yeah we have to be selective, we can't buff everything at once. People nowadays expect maximum rewards with minimum effort, but this leads to player dissatisfaction in the long run.

You know what leads to player dissatisfaction instantly? Having to swap out passives for the sake of swapping out passives.

Why don't we take that a step further? I don't like how my main character can do everything. He fights, the rides, the talks, he crafts. We should have a dedicated merchant character. Every item I earn on my fighting character I should shove into my bank, log off of him, swap to my merchant, take stuff out of the bank and sell it with that char.

Why? Because players shouldn't "expect maximum rewards with minimum effort" because doing things like we did until now is just too fluid.

Prankster.

Araneae6537

I do agree that the green constellation could use some adjustment. It is more restrictive in what you can select where as to me the prerequisite unlocks in the other trees seem logical and are often passives with a small unlock cost so nothing is lost. I also agree there are some really great new perks though so I don’t mean for the negatives to overshadow that!

Sylvermynx

MrGhosty wrote: »

I can get the other two trees requiring slotting as they're leaning towards having power but with tradeoffs. QoL stuff that enhances gameplay outside of combat should just be always on once it gets unlocked.

If I had enough CP to get all the green slottables, yes, I'd be annoyed as all get out. I don't have that much CP (one account NA at 500, the other account NA at 410; one account EU at 200, the other one at around 80), but I do think this particular system is pretty bad especially for those who do everything on just one or two characters.

If it doesn't get tweaked, I'll probably split up crafting to just my mains with other stuff done by other characters. I don't do TG or DB stuff, so that's not a problem for me (though it obviously is for those who, like Varanis_Arano, have a character who does all the things); treasure chests could go on another 50; not sure what else I might farm out - the Homemaker one maybe to the same 50.

I'll get it sorted out eventually.

merevie

What I am finding very annoying is when you are happily doing your green tree, and accidentally trip a required passive from 10 to 9.

Then EVERYTHING is auto removed.

Sylvermynx

Yeah, I noticed that too @merevie! *shakes head* I got real careful after that....

barney2525

Seems to me this makes a bit of a balancing act between those of us with 500 CP and those who have 2000 CP.

If all those CP could be used to affect everything they can buy on the new system, ... at the same time .... seems to me PvP would become a smaller and smaller number of uber powerful characters ... one shotting hither and yon.

People say " you can play in the No CP campaign" ... but that's kinda backwards thinking. People Want to use their CP in PvP. From what I have seen of Forums, many PvPers don't Want their CP for PvE. They already say it is too easy for them.

Sure, the 2000 will still have a distinct advantage over the 500, but at least with the slot restrictions things should be somewhat competitive.

IMHO

Czeri

Being able to deconstruct something for more mats and a chance of picking two flowers instead of one doesn't make one character more powerful than another.

Having to rejiggle your CPs when you move away from a crafting station and see a flower is incredibly annoying, though...

WiseSky

Automatically adjusts your green champion bar loadout depending on what you are attempting to achieve and restores back your old CP setup when you are done.


JackofallTrades

Sylvermynx

WiseSky wrote: »

Automatically adjusts your green champion bar loadout depending on what you are attempting to achieve and restores back your old CP setup when you are done.


JackofallTrades

Except that it was set up for instant swap, and ZOS plugged in a (VERY late) change to the passive star swap time - giving it a 30 second delay. So for someone who does all the things on one character, that's a fair amount of wait time in between. For instance, if you're swapping from Master Gatherer to the treasure chest slottable, in that 30 seconds you might lose the chest to someone who doesn't need to swap stars.

renne

At least now if PC players are all actually (and finally) complaining too about the negative QoL impacts instead of just going "there's an addon for that!" those on console might get a postive change out of this, too.

Or, more likely, ZoS will remove the cooldown, PC players will go back to using their addons and telling everyone "there's an addon for that!" if anyone complains about the micromanagement, and consoles will once again be left to wander the QoL desert.

Barbara73

If you think the green tree is bad under the blue one if your a tank with under 600 cp depending on your build there's a good chance you wont get a single item slotted. I wonder if any of the developers tested this mess on anything by max cp's?

AcadianPaladin

I think the slotted skills for red and blue tree are fine. The green tree is indeed a challenge. . . I think the solution could be as simple as turning a few of the slottable skills into passive ones. Hopefully, ZoS will consider this moving forward.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

merevie wrote: »

What I am finding very annoying is when you are happily doing your green tree, and accidentally trip a required passive from 10 to 9.

Then EVERYTHING is auto removed.

You did that too? I thought it was only me that ZOS was trying to troll with that feature.

Chilly-McFreeze

barney2525 wrote: »

Seems to me this makes a bit of a balancing act between those of us with 500 CP and those who have 2000 CP.

If all those CP could be used to affect everything they can buy on the new system, ... at the same time .... seems to me PvP would become a smaller and smaller number of uber powerful characters ... one shotting hither and yon.

People say " you can play in the No CP campaign" ... but that's kinda backwards thinking. People Want to use their CP in PvP. From what I have seen of Forums, many PvPers don't Want their CP for PvE. They already say it is too easy for them.

Sure, the 2000 will still have a distinct advantage over the 500, but at least with the slot restrictions things should be somewhat competitive.

IMHO

And what has that to do with the green tree?
Only thing affecting PvP from there is the fall damage (passive) and out of combat speed (slottable).

There is no need for "balancing acts" via slottables in a roleplaying/ gathering/ crafting tree.

TwinLamps

Athan1 wrote: »

No, we can't agree it's a horrible failure. We got new exciting buffs that we DIDN'T have before, so yeah we have to be selective, we can't buff everything at once. People nowadays expect maximum rewards with minimum effort, but this leads to player dissatisfaction in the long run.

Enjoy star swapping minigame, I guess.

Scardan

Random_Zombie wrote: »

So now that we've established that anyone who values their time and effort on PC will be using an addon to automatically swap their green CP passives, can we admit that the idea of having a limited number of slots for quality of life passives was a horrible failure? This was preempted by the addition of a 15 sec cooldown for swapping passives so clearly ZOS is aware of what is going on. Do they actually not care that virtually no one wants to play this mind-numbing micromanagement game with their CP?

The basis of the argument, in my opinion, is wrong. You start from the idea that they want to make you play a "minigame" very often. In fact, they do not force you to change stars every time you do something, they imho push you to the idea of specialization, so that you slot stars that buff what you do the most and spit on small differences in the rest, occasionally changing these stars before occasionally spending a lot of time for something new, what you do not do mainly.

I watched the reaction, read the complains that all sum to " i cannot do everything perfect, i have to slot new stars every time to be perfect at everything, oh god" and saw that there are many people on the forum who suffer from perfectionism, perfectionism prevents them from enjoying the game.

I recommend to just accept yourself and this game for what it is. Identify and eliminate the reasons why perfectionism was formed. Not only the game, the whole life will be easier.

barney2525

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Seems to me this makes a bit of a balancing act between those of us with 500 CP and those who have 2000 CP.

If all those CP could be used to affect everything they can buy on the new system, ... at the same time .... seems to me PvP would become a smaller and smaller number of uber powerful characters ... one shotting hither and yon.

People say " you can play in the No CP campaign" ... but that's kinda backwards thinking. People Want to use their CP in PvP. From what I have seen of Forums, many PvPers don't Want their CP for PvE. They already say it is too easy for them.

Sure, the 2000 will still have a distinct advantage over the 500, but at least with the slot restrictions things should be somewhat competitive.

IMHO

And what has that to do with the green tree?
Only thing affecting PvP from there is the fall damage (passive) and out of combat speed (slottable).

There is no need for "balancing acts" via slottables in a roleplaying/ gathering/ crafting tree.

We are focused on slot-ables. They system must apply equally across the board. If it takes 15 seconds to swap on green, it will take 15 seconds to swap on red or blue. Just looking at the bigger picture.

KMarble

With all due respect to the developer of the new add on, I don't like the idea of allowing a script do something for me on the background without my supervision and input (yes, I'm a control freak and a tad paranoid).

I like the idea of an add on to help with star swaps, I really do, but I'd prefer it to be something similar to Dressing room where I'd choose which combination of stars I want and slot them with one click. Ideally this should be a QoL improvement added to the game so that all of us, regardless of platform, would have access to.

I do understand why the add on was created the way it was, but I'd be willing to spend a few extra seconds swapping if I had the option to have pre-set combos of stars already saved. If it became a game feature I'd be even happier.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I am actually really coming around to the new CP system. That said, the fatal flaw is the green tree. Great Ideas, horrible implementation.

Nothing in the green tree should require a slot. Make all of it passive. This is suppose to be QOL and it's the exact opposite.

I even like the idea of a cool down for the blue true. I support reigning in the micro managing you are required to do between pulls in trials and that sort of thing.

Rogue_WolfESO

All passive should be active once unlocked. Picking and changing every few minutes is tedious and unnecessary.

Phaedryn

That addon should absolutely be considered an exploit and banned outright.

First, it completely negates a specific design decision by Zos, the 4 slots per tree. With that addon you effectively have unlimited slots. Second, it gives an absolute unfair advantage to PC players (I am PC for the record).

Chilly-McFreeze

Phaedryn wrote: »

That addon should absolutely be considered an exploit and banned outright.

First, it completely negates a specific design decision by Zos, the 4 slots per tree. With that addon you effectively have unlimited slots. Second, it gives an absolute unfair advantage to PC players (I am PC for the record).

How does it effect consol players when those don't interact with PC in any way?

VaranisArano

Phaedryn wrote: »

That addon should absolutely be considered an exploit and banned outright.

First, it completely negates a specific design decision by Zos, the 4 slots per tree. With that addon you effectively have unlimited slots. Second, it gives an absolute unfair advantage to PC players (I am PC for the record).

A. It doesn't do anything that you can't do manually.
Let's say I'm using Steed's Blessing, Plentiful Harvest, Master Gatherer, and Meticulous Disassembly while doing my writs. Do I suddenly have 5 slots when I out Meticulous Dissasembly for Professional Upkeep when I finish my writs and go to repair my armor? No.
How about six slots, when I then swap out Professional Upkeep for Friends in Low Places? Again, no.
I still have four slots, and I'm manually swapping my slottables around.

B. How exactly are PC players advantaged? The Addon is available to every PC player. Meanwhile, PC and Console players never interact, and thus never compete.

Ittrix

barney2525 wrote: »

Seems to me this makes a bit of a balancing act between those of us with 500 CP and those who have 2000 CP.

If all those CP could be used to affect everything they can buy on the new system, ... at the same time .... seems to me PvP would become a smaller and smaller number of uber powerful characters ... one shotting hither and yon.

People say " you can play in the No CP campaign" ... but that's kinda backwards thinking. People Want to use their CP in PvP. From what I have seen of Forums, many PvPers don't Want their CP for PvE. They already say it is too easy for them.

Sure, the 2000 will still have a distinct advantage over the 500, but at least with the slot restrictions things should be somewhat competitive.

IMHO

Then maybe they shouldn't put the vertical cap for QoL at 2000. Maybe a lot of these bonuses should come sooner, and cap out sooner.