Vampirism?

Morgha_Kul

So, I got on my Imperial character today, for the first time since they changed Vampirism. He is one, and I found myself perplexed... because apparently now there is no need to feed.

One of the fundamental things about being a vampire is that it requires that you feed to avoid becoming a monster. That's the curse. Now, however, there is no need to feed. Indeed, feeding is now what turns you into a monster.

Am I the only one that thinks this is backwards?

Also, I continue to be disappointed with how unaffected by sunlight vampires are. I get that you can't have it do damage as it's "supposed" to... but it should do SOMETHING. Perhaps an even greater penalty to fire damage, an inability to heal, or something of that sort...

Vampirism is supposed to be a CURSE...
(Lycanthropy too, actually)

Nairinhe

Lamae's vamprisim is backwards, because it's a mockery of Molag Bal's vampirism.
At least that's the lore excuse. At least now I can have vampirism on for RP purpose and not think much about it.

Ryuvain

Yeah doesn't make sense. Also werewolves never are forced to transform at all.

The backwards logic of both still annoy me, even when trying to ignore it. Mmo part of the game takes so much out of elder scrolls here.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Because your either:

A. Your not a Vampire but a Blood Scion which is something completely different, the only similarity is you drink blood but it is for very different reasons, for them drinking blood is like a medicine that helps them hold onto their fleeting humanity where as for a Blood Scion drinking blood is a drug meant to draw out your true power.

B. Your one of the very few true Vampires in the series and the common depiction of a TES Vampire isn't actually a Vampire because as we know the stereotypical depiction of a Vampire does not get weaker from drinking blood, ask anyone and this is not what they would think of when they here the word "Vampire" they would think of something that get's stronger from consuming blood which is how the player functions.

Also, I continue to be disappointed with how unaffected by sunlight vampires are.

Hate to break it to you but vampires in folklore were never meant to be effected by Sunlight, this is a stupid hollywood phenomenon bestowed upon us by the 1922 movie Nosferatu.

Xargas13

Hmm, for me there is a need to feed, as you get all bonuses at stage 4. There are bigger drawbacks, but I learned how to mitigate them.

And before sun will be doing something to us, they need to buff our bonuses up to stage 4, since now there are more drawbacks then advantages, vampires kind of suck now, if excuse the pun

barney2525

I made character a vampire to get the achievement dye ....

kept him as a vampire for the stealth bennies and to 'bite' other players who wanted to be vamps.

But that's it. Probably will feed on a npc once for the achievement at some point

Morgha_Kul

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but vampires in folklore were never meant to be effected by Sunlight, this is a stupid hollywood phenomenon bestowed upon us by the 1922 movie Nosferatu.

Actually, I was aware of this. However, it's also been established in the Elder Scrolls games previously.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

There are various strains of the vampirism disease in Elder Scrolls, and in ESO we get Noxiphilic Sanguivoria which comes from the first vampire Lamae Beolfag. Vampires of this strains are one of few and maybe only strain that doesn't get weakened or harmed by daylight. They only get stronger during night.
Then it's the thing that this is an mmo. We can't just go rest or wait somewhere for daytime to be over, so being weak for 4 hours or so would be pretty bad.

The feeding change is recent, and was lore reasoned to have be done by Lamae, to make it the opposite of the other strains as a middlefinger to Molag Bal. No idea why she wants us to feed (and grow more powerful) so we become mindless monsters. Unless she has also changed that so we only look monstrous...

TX12001rwb17_ESO

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Vampires of this strains are one of few and maybe only strain that doesn't get weakened or harmed by daylight. They only get stronger during night.

Perhaps that applies to the baser Vampires who have Noxiphillic Sanguvioria but the player cannot become a Vampire naturally due to reasons mentioned in the quest if you get infected by a Bloodfiend, they instead go to Lamae Bal and go through a ritual she created where she replaces all their blood with hers, the Vampire you become is very different then the ones described in the book Noxiphilix Sanguvoria, only those of her immediate clan would function as you do.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Vampires of this strains are one of few and maybe only strain that doesn't get weakened or harmed by daylight. They only get stronger during night.

Perhaps that applies to the baser Vampires who have Noxiphillic Sanguvioria but the player cannot become a Vampire naturally due to reasons mentioned in the quest if you get infected by a Bloodfiend, they instead go to Lamae Bal and go through a ritual she created where she replaces all their blood with hers, the Vampire you become is very different then the ones described in the book Noxiphilix Sanguvoria, only those of her immediate clan would function as you do.

That is correct, yes. We don't really know much about the ones who haven't had their little blood fusion from Lamae. Can we even be sure the bloodfiends have Noxiphillic Sanguvioria? Bloodfiends and other vampires can though be found around Tamriel throughout nights and days.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Vampires of this strains are one of few and maybe only strain that doesn't get weakened or harmed by daylight. They only get stronger during night.

Perhaps that applies to the baser Vampires who have Noxiphillic Sanguvioria but the player cannot become a Vampire naturally due to reasons mentioned in the quest if you get infected by a Bloodfiend, they instead go to Lamae Bal and go through a ritual she created where she replaces all their blood with hers, the Vampire you become is very different then the ones described in the book Noxiphilix Sanguvoria, only those of her immediate clan would function as you do.

That is correct, yes. We don't really know much about the ones who haven't had their little blood fusion from Lamae. Can we even be sure the bloodfiends have Noxiphillic Sanguvioria? Bloodfiends and other vampires can though be found around Tamriel throughout nights and days.

Well they obviously can infect you with it but how are we sure it and what Lamae Bal gives us are the same thing, after all we do get all of our infected blood drained by 4 Vampires and then receive a full-blood transfusion from her which in a rather unconventional way would make us somewhat Pureblooded Vampires.

The Vestige is truly unique among Vampires in that regard in that they would share the same level of blood purity as the one who turned them.

Morgha_Kul

All of this sounds like rationalization... They seem to be bending over backwards to let people have vampiric powers with no downside... even though that's never been how it's been presented.

Vampirism and Lycanthropy should grant great power, but at a COST. Presently, there is no cost to either one, and I don't think that's either appropriate, balanced or consistent with the lore.

Vevvev

There are great downsides to being a vampire though. Those passives are actually really good, but sadly the debuffs to get them are incredibly punishing. Stage 3 can make a glass cannon far more durable than they should be and stage 4 let's you sprint for miles and even escape fights you probably shouldn't, or even set up invisible ambushes outside of the Nightblade class.

At stage 4 -100% health regeneration is no joke.

coop500

*Remembers all the threads of people complaining about how the way it used to be was backwards*
It used to be: Starving yourself made you more monsterous, and the penalties of being a vampire more severe (as did the bonuses, which were outweighing the negatives for awhile so almost everyone and their uncle was a stage 4 'starved' vampire). People complained about how this was backwards logic, even though it's been like that in TES since forever.

Now they changed it and here we are...

(Note: I don't care either way, I think vampires are annoying.)
But it is amusing to see this.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

All of this sounds like rationalization... They seem to be bending over backwards to let people have vampiric powers with no downside... even though that's never been how it's been presented.

Vampirism and Lycanthropy should grant great power, but at a COST. Presently, there is no cost to either one, and I don't think that's either appropriate, balanced or consistent with the lore.

No downsides? If you're stage 4 who obviously is a vampire, it's a crime and npcs don't want to talk to you, all your non-vampiric skills has increased cost and the vampire skills are quite lacking, your health regen is more or less gone, and you take more damage from fire. On top of that, the vampire "look" is badly done and doesn't really fit the change feeding stuff.
They removed a lot of the powers vampires had, because the few downsides they had wasn't a big deal, and instead now barely anyone is a vampire because of all the downsides.

Eccentric_Vampire

Agreed. I understand that lore and the fact that this is an MMO can make vampirism difficult to balance and all that, but ESO vampires just don't feel like real vampires.

Ryuvain

Eccentric_Vampire wrote: »

Agreed. I understand that lore and the fact that this is an MMO can make vampirism difficult to balance and all that, but ESO vampires just don't feel like real vampires.

That's exactly what makes it frustrating. Doesn't feel like elder scrolls vampirism.

Lugaldu

Eccentric_Vampire wrote: »

ESO vampires just don't feel like real vampires.

How does real vampires feel like?

deleted210809-001958

nightblades are better vampires than ... vampires

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Kyatos wrote: »

nightblades are better vampires than ... vampires

Be a Nightblade Vampire then you are the ultimate Vampire

WhereArtThouVampires

Lugaldu wrote: »

Eccentric_Vampire wrote: »

ESO vampires just don't feel like real vampires.

How does real vampires feel like?

Skyrim Vampires feel like real vampires.


NPCs in ESO feel like real vampires.


(:

So, it's not that we as players don't know what a real vampire feels like. It's the creative director thinking Blood Frenzy is 'what it means to be a vampire in ES' when no other vampire uses it literally EVER in the entire elder scrolls universe.

WhereArtThouVampires

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

All of this sounds like rationalization... They seem to be bending over backwards to let people have vampiric powers with no downside... even though that's never been how it's been presented.

Vampirism and Lycanthropy should grant great power, but at a COST. Presently, there is no cost to either one, and I don't think that's either appropriate, balanced or consistent with the lore.

Vampire is literally the weakest thing you could do to your class right now.

It is genuinely better 9/10 times to not be a vampire than it is to be one.


-extra ability costs
-100% negative health regen
-abilities are very niche and the better ones cost a crap ton of HP
-All melee range abilities despite not having a single bit of mobility in their kit.
-The ultimate is extremely expensive for what it does and is a re-skin of the existing Bone Goliath ultimate. Essentially making it to where if you're a necromancer you have to ignore the Bone Tyrant ult completely if you're a vampire.
-Extra fire damage
-Extra fighters guild/prismatic damage
-Almost all of the abilities have 1 useless morph and 1 okay morph.
-Has abilities that discourage group play

Where's this 'no cost' you speak of? Cause clearly we are not playing the same vampire.

Currently the only purpose vampires serves is:

-Bow Snipe/nightblade ganking
-Very top tier leaderboard pushing raids because you can cheese Blood Frenzy to get slightly higher numbers **if** you have a hardcore group of players. Even then, this is only cheesing eviscerate/blood frenzy just to get higher numbers in a situation where all players involved already have maxed out legendary top 1% gear.
-Running invis through questing


That's it. Those the vampire's options for play generally. In all other scenarios you are better off not being a vampire.

QuebraRegra

Nairinhe wrote: »

Lamae's vamprisim is backwards, because it's a mockery of Molag Bal's vampirism.
At least that's the lore excuse. At least now I can have vampirism on for RP purpose and not think much about it.

still a character debuff

Lugaldu

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

In all other scenarios you are better off not being a vampire.

Aside from the specific impact on a character's abilities in the game, in my opinion being a vampire should also feel like a struggle for survival. In some situations, the vampire may be superior, but basically he is living a miserable and painful existence between life and death. For my taste too many vampires stroll around in the cities, happily crafting furniture, shopping at the merchants and so on... that somehow doesn't fit into my picture of the existence of a vampire.

RedMuse

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

[snip]

Hate to break it to you but vampires in folklore were never meant to be effected by Sunlight, this is a stupid hollywood phenomenon bestowed upon us by the 1922 movie Nosferatu.

This right here. I have major beef with modern, ie post-Nosferatu depiction of vampires in general, because sunlight was never a source that destroyed or burned vampires. "At worst" they went dormant during the day, a lot of the time they were unaffected. Even Dracula in his Bram Stoker incarnation wasn't affected by daylight, that came much later.

ArchMikem

People wanted the buffs of being a Monster without having to look like a Monster. They wanted to eat their Cake without [snip]

[Edited to remove Non-Constructive content]

Ryuvain

Have to remember that mist form and blood scion are still great abilities. You can even stay stage 1 for both.

starkerealm

Ryuvain wrote: »

Also werewolves never are forced to transform at all.

If you want to level up your lycanthropy, you need to wolf out.

WhereArtThouVampires

Lugaldu wrote: »

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

In all other scenarios you are better off not being a vampire.

Aside from the specific impact on a character's abilities in the game, in my opinion being a vampire should also feel like a struggle for survival. In some situations, the vampire may be superior, but basically he is living a miserable and painful existence between life and death. For my taste too many vampires stroll around in the cities, happily crafting furniture, shopping at the merchants and so on... that somehow doesn't fit into my picture of the existence of a vampire.

I'd be happy if Vampires provided a completely unique experience and a struggle for survival. But in turn they are quite powerful and feared.

Unfortunately, the ones in ESO do not provide that.

WhereArtThouVampires

Ryuvain wrote: »

Have to remember that mist form and blood scion are still great abilities. You can even stay stage 1 for both.

Blood Scion is an 'ok' ultimate for the cost. It's even marked up to 'good' in some cases. But it also isn't good enough to be 'wow, awesome!' cause at the end of the day it's nothing but a big stat steroid and a moderately ok AoE.


Mist Form is literally not useful in anything but PvP. This by itself limits its 'greatness' heavily. If it had a morph that flavored the ability to be way better in PvE, I'd agree it'd be a pretty gerat skill.

Lugaldu

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

I'd be happy if Vampires provided a completely unique experience and a struggle for survival. But in turn they are quite powerful and feared.

Unfortunately, the ones in ESO do not provide that.

I would appreciate that too.

But I suspect that in ESO there may also be other reasons for the design of the vampires as they are now. A lot of people want to play a vampire but without too much struggles and that wish can be used for monetizing (selling for example "Curse of Vampirism" in the Crown store), what is of course understandable since it lays in the interests of a company to make profit.