Double Jump: The solution to all our problems?

Sangwyne

There have been complaints on the forums for years about the relative lack of mobility in this game. Sure, Sorcerers have Streak, but what about the rest of us? If you've ever gotten trapped while exploring and had to use the /unstuck command to get out, you know the feeling, especially when the wayshrine you're teleported to is halfway across the map from where you were. Or how about falling in a shallow pool of water and realizing that ledge isn't sufficient to let you climb out? Sorry, buddy, your hands don't work, you're going to have to go the long way around and swim at an agonizingly slow pace (unless you're an Argonian, but who plays those anymore ) over to that stairwell, if there even is one. Shor's bones, half the ladders in this game don't even WORK; I can clearly see the barrels and boxes at the top of the ladder, let me get up there and loot them! Let us not even dare mention the dreaded pebble, the bane of mighty warriors and wizards the world over. Rather than demand ZOS actually make ledges climbable, fix every ladder in the game or adjust every model on every blade of grass or rock to prevent clipping issues, why not implement a double jump? Jumping in MMOs is a staple, whether you're getting from point A to B, trying to show your group something, or just aimlessly hanging around in town, but this game has got the saddest jump height I think I've ever seen; seriously, I can jump higher in real life than I can in a fantasy game. Make up an explanation as to how it would work, call it Magic, make it cost stamina, whatever, I don't care, just give us a fun way to get around. Please. I've been stuck down here a while and food is running out.

Seraphayel

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

Sorry buddy, but a double jump won't fix anything and it would be a pita in PvP. Yes, you could disable it in PvP, but then it's just a pretty pointless PvE feature. So... thanks, but no thanks.

Sangwyne

I believe I can fly

Seraphayel wrote: »

Sorry buddy, but a double jump won't fix anything and it would be a pita in PvP. Yes, you could disable it in PvP, but then it's just a pretty pointless PvE feature. So... thanks, but no thanks.

I just listed a whole bunch of things it would fix, and since when does PvP dictate the entire game? I've seen people hopping around in PvP like rabbits [snip], don't tell me that those folks wouldn't love a double jump. Honestly, if you're that worried about it affecting PvP, make it a PvE-only feature, but killing off ideas because a small segment of the game wouldn't like it leads to stale gameplay when every potential feature needs to be certified. I'm not a fan of the stealth mechanic or killing NPCs off myself, but I'm willing to admit that there's an element of the population that does enjoy it, so I don't mind if it occasionally crops up in a quest here or there.

[edited for inappropriate content]

GreenHere

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

I like double jumps in other games, but feel it'd be pretty out-of-place in ESO. Leaps, Streaks, Grappling Hook pulls, etc. already feel pretty bad (movement/physics-wise), imo, and I don't think any other new gimmicks would be a good addition as things currently stand.

What I'd really like to see is just normal everyday jumps not absolutely killing your directional momentum for no freakin reason most of the time. I hate sprinting along, and seeing a gap, and playfully thinking to myself "I can make it! >:D "... only for the game to say, "OR, and hear me out here, OR you could just be slowed down to .04 meters per second for no reason, then fall to your doom & frustration! How about that?!"

Also, why can't we walk smoothly on surfaces unless they're like 1000% level? You know that one slightly crooked stair in your house? The one you have to literally JUMP to step up? How about that one board on the Vivec pier? The one that's sticking up like 1 whole centimeter, but still bumps you literally up in the air if you hit it too fast? Or how about them shin-high walls that are everywhere in the game, for some hellish reason, that clearly sit well underneath our character's feet when they're jumping, but still can't be cleared by some vile enchantment?

I swear, if Molag Bal really wanted to get away with that whole Planemeld scheme, all he had to do was put a bunch of medium-sized tree roots or like... large pebbles in the way -- the Vestige would never have made it to him.


TL;DR -- I want ZOS to fix/moderize the janky and icky-feeling 2009 physics before I start entrusting them with adding more janky and icky-feeling movement gimmicks.

Zenzuki

I believe I can fly

Anything to get over the D@^# pebbles!

AyaDark

DK have wings. Let us just "fly away, like a king of the sky" than.

To not see some forum posts and ideas and ingame disbalance ... .

VaranisArano

Look, you gotta be careful with that double jump. That's how you end up with:

OlumoGarbag

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

They would never be able to implement it. All the structures in the game are designed to not/ or be climbed by a single jump. They would have to redesign literally every content so you dont jump out of map or exploit a dungeon.

GreenHere

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

VaranisArano wrote: »

Look, you gotta be careful with that double jump. That's how you end up with:

"IIIIIIIIEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEUUUUUGGHHH" ~ poor, poor Tarhiel

TX12001rwb17_ESO

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

A double-jump is not even physically possible, go ahead try and do one in real life, I guarantee that you cannot.

Danikat

I agree this is one possible fix for one very minor problem in certain specific situations. (I spend a lot of my time exploring and even so I'd say getting stuck in a hole is relatively rare compared to hitting an invisible wall.) But I don't think it's the best solution even in those cases.

For it to work well they'd also have to fix the crazy physics where somehow jumping actually slows you down and if you are able to get onto a surface other than the ground chances are you'll just slide off as if it's made of wet ice. I assume jumping in this game was designed purely to accommodate bunny hopping in combat and any use for exploration was a secondary consideration at best, but whatever the reason the jump height is one minor factor in a list of reasons it's impractical.

Also in a lot of the situations you used as examples it would just lead to further disappointment. Those boxes at the top of the ladder? They're not lootable. Even if you got up there it wouldn't do anything, they're just decorative. That ledge you want to climb up? There's an invisible wall running along it. That cliff you could eventually reach the top of? It's about 1 foot below the top of the map, so there's not enough space to stand at the top anyway.

The maps in this game were designed to accommodate exploration only in a very limited fashion. You follow the paths ZOS has set (not necessarily marked with roads, but the spaces between cliffs, trees, water bodies full of slaughterfish etc.) and along the way you find a handful of designated objects like quests, treasure chests, enemies and resource nodes and if you're lucky some nice scenery. If you try to do more than that you're going to get frustrated. The best you can hope for is occasionally breaking out of the map to see the nothingness beyond the edges or underneath the terrain, or hitting the edge of the skybox instead of an internal invisible wall.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

Double jump is super stupid and annoys me in every game it exist in. It's just a platformer game gimmick that made players feel like they were playing fun games because the jumps were spaced where you had to press the button twice... oh boy. [snip] Literally " I must be having more fun, because it required twice the work".

[edited for bashing]

Nairinhe

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

Double jump - no
Climbing (and gliding) I'd like, but it would require reworking the whole game to change what's accessible and what isn't, so...

Tandor

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

Wholly impractical given the complete rewriting of the game that it would entail, and also wholly unnecessary in my experience. I do wish people would refrain from using phrases like "all our problems" as if whatever grievance the poster has is shared by all of us. I must have got stuck in terrain perhaps twice in 7 years and ported out each time, while perhaps having had to swim an extra few yards to get out of water a couple of times as well. It's a non-issue so far as I'm concerned.

I'd agree with being able to climb ladders if it were remotely feasible to introduce it at this stage, but as for double jumps, it's just the wrong game for that.

Sangwyne

I believe I can fly

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

A double-jump is not even physically possible, go ahead try and do one in real life, I guarantee that you cannot.

*Cough* MAAAGIC *Cough*. Or just explain it the same way Michael Kirkbride does: the into-outer torsion constructed a neo-pylamorithmic brace ensuring maximal causal reality achieving vertical transcendence. We have lore about space whales in Skyrim and Sentient robots from the Ninth Era time traveling backwards in time to warn us about the Towers or something, the lore team can probably squeeze in something regarding a second jump. And barring double jumping, it would be nice to at least have more jump height, because seriously, I've tried it just recently and yeah, it isn't hard to jump higher than your supposedly heroic character can. Not being able to overcome a knee-high rock standing in your way and having to do the walk of shame around it has got to be the epitome of sad moments I've had to witness in ESO.

VaranisArano

Sangwyne wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

A double-jump is not even physically possible, go ahead try and do one in real life, I guarantee that you cannot.

*Cough* MAAAGIC *Cough*. Or just explain it the same way Michael Kirkbride does: the into-outer torsion constructed a neo-pylamorithmic brace ensuring maximal causal reality achieving vertical transcendence. We have lore about space whales in Skyrim and Sentient robots from the Ninth Era time traveling backwards in time to warn us about the Towers or something, the lore team can probably squeeze in something regarding a second jump. And barring double jumping, it would be nice to at least have more jump height, because seriously, I've tried it just recently and yeah, it isn't hard to jump higher than your supposedly heroic character can. Not being able to overcome a knee-high rock standing in your way and having to do the walk of shame around it has got to be the epitome of sad moments I've had to witness in ESO.

Unless Kirkbride's wilder stuff actually shows up in game, it's not actual TES lore. The Kinmune stuff in particular is only ever vaguely referenced as a conspiracy theory.

That being said, justifying a lore friendly double jump is easy: levitation and fortify acrobatics spells are in common use by the 3rd Era. This is just a different application of those spells.

Vanya

Please no I do want to see my Flawless Altmer suffering from double jump syndrome,maybe Bendy Bosmer can use it when jumping from tree to tree.

etchedpixels

There is a sort of double-jump out of stuck - in some cases anyway mounting and jumping gets you the extra height. Failing that you may be able to get a friendly warden to gate you out depending on the terrain and the somewhat bizarrely random placing on the circles on rougher ground. Sometimes entering imperial city and going back fixes it in overland too.

You never /stuck though - it's cheaper to port home or to IC 8)

Alan

majulook

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

I voted No.

BUT.... I might be OK with making a single Jump cost 1000 stamina, and a double jump cost 3x that. With no CP, Proc or Skill to lessen the costs. This would solve the OP issue and possibility reduce bunny hopping which IMHO just looks silly.

Daemons_Bane

I believe I can fly

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

A double-jump is not even physically possible, go ahead try and do one in real life, I guarantee that you cannot.

Neither can I summon lightning, imps, daedra, go invisible, pull a horse out of thin air, carry about 1 ton of metal in my pocket.. the list as pretty long my man.. one would almost believe that magic was involved in the game

GreenHere

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

A double-jump is not even physically possible, go ahead try and do one in real life, I guarantee that you cannot.

Neither can I summon lightning, imps, daedra, go invisible, pull a horse out of thin air, carry about 1 ton of metal in my pocket.. the list as pretty long my man.. one would almost believe that magic was involved in the game

Well, not with that attitude @Daemons_Bane! You gotta quit doubting yourself, and starting believing! ;P

JamieAubrey

Maybe not a double jump but a higher jump per say

I've been stuck in random holes around Cyro while holding a scroll ( yes I should be paying attention and not auto running over mountains

Unless there's a Warden to get me out I can't use /Unstuck and have to log out, log back in AND THEN /unstuck

magnusthorek

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

While I like double-jumps in games I played as a kid, like that very cartoonish one with Donald Duck or even Crash Bandicocot, double jumps wouldn't fit in here.

However, the ability to running-jump (or whatever it's called) would be amazing. Though I don't know exactly when, if since launch or later, Guild Wars 2 is older than ESO and you can run and then jump without losing the sprint speed (not that running in GW2 is that much impressive).

Here, we can only do that while using Wild Hunt relic or with a very clear path, with a medium-high slope, and still it's not a reliable feature as we often stumble upon an invisible wall, an NPC collision box or something else that drains all the speed we have accumulated inexplicably.

Eedat

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

A double-jump is not even physically possible, go ahead try and do one in real life, I guarantee that you cannot.

I'm not sure if you're aware but they're are quite a few things in ESO that are not physically possible

Sangwyne

I believe I can fly

VaranisArano wrote: »

Unless Kirkbride's wilder stuff actually shows up in game, it's not actual TES lore. The Kinmune stuff in particular is only ever vaguely referenced as a conspiracy theory.

That being said, justifying a lore friendly double jump is easy: levitation and fortify acrobatics spells are in common use by the 3rd Era. This is just a different application of those spells.

To be entirely honest, I haven't read too much into all of it; I've always enjoyed following the lore in this game, some of which gets pretty convoluted, but when I stumbled upon some of his work I took one look and thought "alright, this is getting just a little bit too bizarre even for me". I certainly don't mean to bash him or his work, there's a lot of lore aficionados that might be into that, but I've seen actual conspiracy theories that made more sense. Back on track, I don't know if that particular angle would work, given that the Third Age hasn't happened yet, but hey, there's several areas in the game where the flow of time is disrupted or even moves in reverse, so who knows? It would seem like double jumping itself is frowned upon by the player community, but what about simply a higher jump? I refuse to believe there are people who think that the current jump height is perfectly fine; just from testing alone it would seem that the actual height of the jump doesn't quite measure up to even half your character's height.

GreenHere

This isn't Super Smash Bros, buddy

Sangwyne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Unless Kirkbride's wilder stuff actually shows up in game, it's not actual TES lore. The Kinmune stuff in particular is only ever vaguely referenced as a conspiracy theory.

That being said, justifying a lore friendly double jump is easy: levitation and fortify acrobatics spells are in common use by the 3rd Era. This is just a different application of those spells.

To be entirely honest, I haven't read too much into all of it; I've always enjoyed following the lore in this game, some of which gets pretty convoluted, but when I stumbled upon some of his work I took one look and thought "alright, this is getting just a little bit too bizarre even for me". I certainly don't mean to bash him or his work, there's a lot of lore aficionados that might be into that, but I've seen actual conspiracy theories that made more sense. Back on track, I don't know if that particular angle would work, given that the Third Age hasn't happened yet, but hey, there's several areas in the game where the flow of time is disrupted or even moves in reverse, so who knows? It would seem like double jumping itself is frowned upon by the player community, but what about simply a higher jump? I refuse to believe there are people who think that the current jump height is perfectly fine; just from testing alone it would seem that the actual height of the jump doesn't quite measure up to even half your character's height.

I bet if your poll was something along the line of "Should player jump height be increased by 10%?" or something, the vote would be flipped, though!

A bit more jump height would be a blessing that I'd appreciate for years! Double jump is a different matter, however.

Sangwyne

I believe I can fly

GreenHere wrote: »

I bet if your poll was something along the line of "Should player jump height be increased by 10%?" or something, the vote would be flipped, though!

A bit more jump height would be a blessing that I'd appreciate for years! Double jump is a different matter, however.

10% increase to zero is still zero, unfortunately. And yeah, I considered editing the poll title to something like Double Jumping/Higher Jumps, but given that you can't change your answers to the poll questions while you can edit the poll title and poll question, it wouldn't really be fair to the people who've already chimed in with their input. Maybe I'll do a second poll asking that, but ideally I'd come up with a different angle on this before doing so. I would certainly appreciate more inherent mobility in the game, and without implementing new animations or vastly increasing character agility, I don't see how that would be feasible for ZOS.