Which race out of the two do you feel was done very poorly in Eso, Bretons or Imperials?

Thevampirenight

Creating this because, yeah there is is two races that really are felt to be have done really poorly in Eso.
Bretons, like they put to much Ayleid stuff, into their base game zones, didn't do much with the Direnni, didn't do much with their unique culture, and didn't show off their more magical side.
They made the Direnni Tower look to much like the White Gold Tower, which is something that should be addressed if its going to be added in. So there is some issues that people feel makes Breton's the worst treated race in Eso, Plus not to mention not adding the City of Jehanna. Some of the unique knightly stuff like the Order of the Hour that existed in Daggerfall made Imperial which people feels take away from the uniquness of the Bretons, being the Knightly race.
Then there is the Imperials, who I feel got done very dirty in Eso. At least Bretons did have a focus on their nobility, their witches, their knights, the vampire thing, lycanthropes. Stuff that I would associate with Highrock. We had the unique Saint Pelin stuff. Bretons already had all their zones but islands done base game so it makes it harder to see more content for them.

But what did Imperials get?
Not included in the base game.
Province gets ravaged by War and Molag Bal.
Imperial Legions, serving Tharns, and a lot of Molag Bal worshiping Imperials.
Tharns, corruption, necromancy, Imperials getting the general bad guy treatment.
The one DIvine worshiping angle we saw with them, had the Akatosh church, being purge all non Akatosh worship, with the Akatosh Chantry, and the Order of the Hour, being a corrupt group, and order. With them going extreme with it. Likely done to make the Dark Brotherhood feel more like an Anti Hero questline. Because even though you are doing evil stuff, your actions actually may benefit the region.
Then there is more Tharn stuff with another evil Tharn Queen, in Elsweyer.
They lacked a New Life quest and they only made one because they are doing parts of Cyrodiil this year, and going to try and do more of what we may have seen with them in TES 4. So that means we will finally get to see proper Imperials hopefully and I do hope we get a lot of unique cultural lore that TES 4 didn't provide.

So out of the two races which one do you feel gets the worst treatment?

TwinLamps

Bretons - I dont like them.
But they got several zones.
imperials are well represented in game as well.
I am sure we will get more zones where imperials are majority of population.

unlike these two races, orcs have only one zone and a starter island.
I wish there was another orc zone but I fail to see where it would be, ngl.

Crazyprophet

Imperials

Sorta sucked more for Imperials imo.

Bretons were underdone, sure. They had untapped potential. But Imperials were basically handwaved into evil daedra-worshipping villains which kinda sucked a lot for Imperial fans. There's far more evil Imperials than good, and that didn't stop with the DLC - Euraxia Tharn's rule of Rimmen as a case in point. The majority of their province is a PvP zone and a lot of the Imperial-style houses you can buy are not even in Cyrodiil at all.

hcbigdogdoghc

Bretons

Bretons hands down, at least ZOS still have the chance, and have shown the interest, to fix Imperials.

Bretons are 100% done for. The subpar representation will be all we get in ESO. The entire northeastern High Rock was retconned into Orc territory (fyi Breton Farrun exists in the first era in lore) so no more Bretons. and the Isle of Balfiera will be shoehorned into the new tutorial. (With the Direnni Tower looking 100% like White Gold Tower + the island being 100% Summerset architecture, unbelievable).

It almost sounds as if ZOS hate Breton so much they want as little to do with them as possible. Imagine if Balmora and Ald'ruhn isn't in Vvardenfell and an Argonian settlement called Ball-Moist Village exists in their place, ZOS would never do that to Dunmer, but is a-ok giving Bretons this treatment.

Meanwhile almost half of Imperial lands are still unexplored, and this year will be about imperials.

It's clear that ZOS have zero interest in Breton stuff, just look at Greymoor.

Antiquities? We got a bunch of Ayleid antiquities in Breton zones, while all Bretons get is a chair and a box.

Bard's College? Every race got an instrument for you to collect, hell there's even a Kothringi instrument. Guess who's left out?

Reachmen stuff? The relationship between Nords and Reachmen were well explained, while the word "Breton" and "High Rock" is not even mentioned once in Markarth.

NPCs? Bosmers and Orcs are 100% done too, but we get Bosmer NPCs talking about Valenwood and Bosmer traditions and Orc NPCs talking about Orsinium and Orc traditions in most zones. Zero for Breton.

Aliyavana

Bretons

Atleast Imperials still have room to grow as they have unexplored parts of Nibenay and Colovia. They also have 4 architectural styles (nibenese, colovian, colonial, and imperial city). High Rock is pretty much done in the base game, leaving little potential of cultural exploration for Bretons, which the Base Game poorly did. They are seen as generic medieval fantasy humans which is far from the truth, and how Zenimax portrayed them further reinforces that. Bretons only hope is the little bit of land around jehanna, but they might end up giving that to orcs like they did to Farrun.

Imperials on the other hand suffer from being given many elements that I feel are better suited for Bretons. And they were watered down since TES 4 because LOTR was around that era and influenced how Cyrodiil was interpreted.

Araneae6537

Both Imperials and Bretons

I love TES lore, but the humans have always seemed least interesting to me, especially when they are mostly caricatures of existing human cultures.

But if I were to point to a race that I feel ESO in particular did disservice to it would be the Altmer as their culture and so many NPCs seem one dimensional, again caricatures. There are exceptions, certainly, but not enough overall such as compared to the Dunmer and Orsimer. We see different sub-cultures and clashes of ideas and values.

(Edited because I felt my original post was overly negative.)

RemanCyrodiil_I

Bretons

-

Faded

Imperials

They feel like afterthoughts in the base game. Even Imperial furnishing are mostly slightly dingier versions of Breton furnishings (which are bad already).

But since so far as a race they're mostly absent, the upcoming chapter might redress this. Maybe.

tuxon

One of the other races.

Altmer, Bosmer.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Both Imperials and Bretons

Bretons suffer from having all of their home done in base game. Bosmer also suffer from this, but it isn't very noticeable on them because they didn't have that much lore to begin with. Compared to bretons who has been fleshed out in previous games so not much new was added.

Imperials on the other hand were added as dlc, their home is a pvp zone ravaged by war and a daedra invasion, the first and so far only dlc (coming chapter and the Imperial City not counted) that is an addition to their home isn't even focused on them but the Dark Brotherhood. They are also in most cases enemies with just a few friendly npcs spread here and there.

So they both suffer, along with other races, yet also not. Because nothing of what they have is done that poorly. Imperials can get some added content though, since some big chunks of Cyrodiil is still missing and the coming chapter.

Mythreindeer

Neither and none.

KingArthasMenethil

Bretons

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Imperials are much too much Ancient Rome copy, paste. I guess all the human races have similar problems to a degree, but Imperials would have been better if maybe Ancient Rome was their starting point only and then, how might they develop along similar or different lines considering the climate they live in, the cultures they’ve historically interacted with, etc. They should feel like their own unique culture rather than Ancient Rome invades Medieval Europe!

Speaking of Medieval Europe, then you have the Bretons, which are like super-generalized milk-toast pseudo-medieval generic fantasy staple humans. Why??? Couldn’t they have a unique culture given how they developed with the Ayleids? I would have liked them to look a bit different too, just a bit of angularity, or maybe varying amounts depending on lineage. The Glenmoril Wyrd might be interesting and I’d like to know more about how and why they began.

The Imperials identity is Rome it's all they have after TES4 gave up on them and went for generic medieval. The problem was the culture wasn't bothered with so people never really knew of the Colovians being Roman-Slavic for example.

MaisonNaevius

Bretons

Breton without hesitation.

All the cities are clones with a variety of different designs.
By design, I mean the scenarios such as for Cyrodiil we have:
- a city on a hill.
- a town on two hills, the castle on a third hill and crossed by a road below.
- a city with a river in the middle.
- ...

All have the same very medieval architecture. Architecture which has been redone because it was originally very cartoon.
We have no diversity and above all: no direnni influence.
I thought to myself that the background of the Novelty Stick Horse image makes me believe that something is brewing ... Only, I don't know if these walls are those of Summerset (having never taken the time to explore).

Of course, it would be unfortunate during the overhaul for the basic Breton architecture to disappear. It will take at least one colony and forts that keep the same appearance.

Tandor

Mythreindeer wrote: »

Neither and none.

This.

Athan1

One of the other races.

Funny how everyone finds Breton the most boring class, yet EVERYONE and their mother plays as a Dark Elf or Breton. smh

Sylvermynx

Neither - I'm quite fond of both of them.

psychotrip

Both Imperials and Bretons

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

It almost sounds as if ZOS hate Breton so much they want as little to do with them as possible

See, I think ZOS LOVES the Bretons. Problem is, they love THEIR VERSION of the Bretons, and not the ones many of us read about or expected.

It's a bit like the Altmer imo. The writers clearly love to focus on the aspects of these races that they personally want to focus on (classic medieval fantasy for bretons), while de-emphasizing or soft retconning those they don't (insert whatever you think the bretons lack here).

Remember that the folks in charge of this game prefer traditional medieval fantasy. This game comes from the folks who made Dark Age of Camelot, correct?

They seem relatively comfortable talking about the more esoteric parts of the world, or setting them apart from mainstream society (see how they handled druids). They seem much less comfortable placing weird fantasy concepts at the forefront unless they absolutely need to (see Morrowind, Black Marsh, Oblivion planes etc.).

I've been seeing a LOT of disappointed talk about the Bretons lately and while the details may be different, it feels a lot like those who were disappointed by the Altmer. In both cases, a long neglected race being taken in a different direction than expected, and the lore they enjoyed being pushed into a corner in favor of more "mundane" fantasy tropes.

Oh and quick note about imperials while I'm here. The reason they feel underdeveloped is because they simply make no sense. Too much has been retconned about their society, their beliefs, and their homeland. Some things they've sloppily tried to reintroduce, and it just doesnt feel consistent. Why do they sometimes dress like romans?

No, really, why? They live in a temperate, sometimes outright freezing climate. Whats with the robes and the skirt armor?

Much if their architecture was pulled from western-style villages in morrowind, but those are described as looking like breton villages in the game. Using that design for cyrodiil just makes them feel even more redundant.

And thats not to mention all the underdeveloped or outright forgotten bits of their culture like the Red Dome Templars, battlemage nobility, the battlespire, all the different subcultures (colovians nibeneans, cyro-nords, Tsaesci descendants, isolated nedic tribes, Altmeri Ayleid Revivalists, Minotaurs), casual necromancy, cyrodiil being a river-based culture, the endless cults etc.

Imperials have been sterilized to the point where they just dont make sense anymore.

And yes this is a shameless necro, but I stumbled upon this thread today and it's relevant to current content.

francesinhalover

Imperials

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/579278/poll-which-es-race-is-your-favorite/p1

here's a poll, from what is seen, bretons are slightly more popular than imperials.

dark elf, and khajit are the most popular races.

poll has 290 votes.

That being said, i would say imperials.
Bretons have several zones to them + a expansion.
The issue is bretons should do more magic on eso, but because it's war time soldiers don't really invest on that i guess?

Auldwulfe

Both Imperials and Bretons

Bretons were poorly done - and hybridization made it FAR FAR worse, as an Orc wizard will, now, ALWAYS out perform a Breton one .... every time.
Orcs get that bonus to weapon AND spell damage - Bretons learn light armor faster ... so play your orc 15% longer and it's a match. Yes, the Bretons get Gift of Magus, or spare spell points .... which is slightly less than the cost of one more casting, so in a match, if you live long enough, you "might" get one more cast than an orc..... who will have more hit points, be faster, and can do better at crafting.

The resistance is not enough to give you staying power, etc.

Imperials are pretty much pushed into being tanks .... their stats all gear them towards it ... which would be fine, except the reputation of Imperial BattleMages, etc.

In my opinion, I think they should go back and look at all the classes since hybridization ... as it dynamically changes things in many ways ......

Auldwulfe

BlueRaven

One of the other races.

Unstealthy Bosmers who are not even the best race in eso for pve bows.

😐

SCP343

One of the other races.

would say dark elf want my flame dmg done back

Auldwulfe

Both Imperials and Bretons

BlueRaven wrote: »

Unstealthy Bosmers who are not even the best race in eso for pve bows.

😐

Don't forget, it's because Bosmer like trees .... and trees aren't stealthy ... but I guess trees are fast??

They REALLY need to redo the racial skill sets, across the board, and fix a LOT of things..... but I am pretty sure that's at the bottom of the list, at this moment .... you know, animations are so in need of fixing, instead.

Auldwulfe

Holycannoli

Imperials.

They're missing their entire magicka-based Nibenese background so they only have a bonus to stamina, they don't get the AP bonus for some reason even though PvP takes place in their homeland (so who has more reason to go to war?), and Red Diamond's +1% gold only works when amounts exceed 100 gold meaning looting kills and chests doesn't give you any extra.

And for that you are paywalled.

TaSheen

One of the other races.

I don't have any problem with either Bretons or Imperials. Bosmer without stealth, now - THAT is a problem.

psychotrip

Both Imperials and Bretons

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't have any problem with either Bretons or Imperials. Bosmer without stealth, now - THAT is a problem.

I think the thread was less about mechanics and more about presentation and lore, but these are valid concerns as well.

TaSheen

One of the other races.

psychotrip wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't have any problem with either Bretons or Imperials. Bosmer without stealth, now - THAT is a problem.

I think the thread was less about mechanics and more about presentation and lore, but these are valid concerns as well.

The lore in the previous games gives Bosmer stealth and mega bow skills.

Carcamongus

Imperials

I only play as Imperial, so I can't comment on Bretons' gameplay aspects. Well, the Bretons were made into a vanilla race with dull (but not ugly) architecture and furnishing style, but at least their homeland was fully covered in ESO and even expanded with High Isle. It bothered me that Imperials were often antagonists in the base game, but DLCs and chapters at least gave them some attention and Blackwood at long last gave them their own distinctive furnishing style, as opposed to some repainted Breton stuff. I'm always in favor of being able to explore gank-free Imperial lands. My first TES game was Oblivion, so I can't help but be sad that most of Cyrodiil is a vast expanse of nothingness and chaos. To be fair, the devs have made up for some of their negative treatment of Imperials.

VDoom1

Imperials

The Imperial race has always been among my favorites for many years. It was my very first character all the way back in TES IV Oblivion. (Nostalgia time...... ...)

I also dislike how Imperials have it in ESO.
Of course one major issue is that the zone for the Imperials is Cyrodiil, aka the PVP zone.
Which does not leave much room for story or PVE things. I did appreciate that we had some story in the Imperial City, not much but some.

The way you put it was very good. Imperials in ESO are almost always by default "bad guys." The few other Imperials about in Cyrodiil are often hostile.

One thing I'd like to see, but I doubt will happen, is if the Imperial deserters camped around Cyrodiil were at least neutral to Imperial players. Instead of immediately hostile.

With all the Akatosh themed items from events earlier this year, I thought we would get some Imperial or Akatosh themed content. Sadly, that was not the case. Kinda confused what the event rewards have to do with High Isle. Except for that outfit we can start to unlock now, that is clearly linked to Bretons.

Imperials need more love!
It's quite sad to ride by the Imperial city. "My home, under siege and in ruins........"

francesinhalover

Imperials

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Bretons were poorly done - and hybridization made it FAR FAR worse, as an Orc wizard will, now, ALWAYS out perform a Breton one .... every time.
Orcs get that bonus to weapon AND spell damage - Bretons learn light armor faster ... so play your orc 15% longer and it's a match. Yes, the Bretons get Gift of Magus, or spare spell points .... which is slightly less than the cost of one more casting, so in a match, if you live long enough, you "might" get one more cast than an orc..... who will have more hit points, be faster, and can do better at crafting.

The resistance is not enough to give you staying power, etc.

Imperials are pretty much pushed into being tanks .... their stats all gear them towards it ... which would be fine, except the reputation of Imperial BattleMages, etc.

In my opinion, I think they should go back and look at all the classes since hybridization ... as it dynamically changes things in many ways ......

Auldwulfe

On the contrary.
I main imperial and their are pretty good stam dps. Extra hp means you can go full stam and stam regen food so you always have resources. Meanwhile other races go tristat food that gives them less stamina. And stamina is dmg remember that.

That being said if they redid races again, hopefully they give out race change tokens, and keep imperial a dps race with tankyness because tbh i don't want imperials to be tank races

Jarl_Ironheart

Imperials

Imperials got done very dirty. The fact that the biggest zone in game, Cyrodil, is pure PVP is very frustrating for someone like me who loved exploring in Oblivion. The Bretons got very fleshed out and even just got a expansion about them. The imperials are all shown as mostly daedra worshippers or fanatic evil soldiers which is crap. Also the cultists world ending villains Order of the Hour idiots.

I REALLY REALLY REALLY, want them to make a brand new Cyrodil same size and everything but it takes place after the 3 banner war. That would appease PVE players and still leave war torn cyrodil intact. Give us a massive Imperial expansion please!

Amottica

The poll reflects one thing, OP’s bias concerning the two races in question. So it really just sets up a discussion but the poll data is invalidated.

To the discussion, I think each of us has our preferences which affects how we like/dislike and view different zones and stories.

Myself, I favor high and dark elves. As such it’s no surprise my favorite stores have been on those zones. I take this bias into account when I reflect on Murkmire since the argonian stories are not my favorite.

Regards and have a good day.