Best mag sustain set?

khaoticfury

I am currently refining my Magplar, and attempting to stop him from goin mag dry every fight due to jabs. I am changing enchants on jewelry to mag recovery, and will get recovery mundus. I have locked down 2/3 sets I want to use for him, which are Sentinel monster set and Overwhelming for other.

My question is, what would be the best sustain set to fill last set? I have researched sets like Lich, Amberplasm, Seducer, etc, but want feedback from folks who actually use them.

Brrrofski

For pve?

False gods by a long way.

WrathOfInnos

False Gods is good if adds are dying, but for a fight without adds it only saves you around 150 mag/s. For a long boss fight Lich will give the best sustain, around 500 mag/s, but it’s not great for damage. Magnus Gift is #2 for sustain, at around 400 mag/s and also brings a line of Spell Damage. Amber Plasm is a great set, with good 2-4 piece bonuses for damage and around 200-250 mag/s.

I don’t see any scenario where Seducer or Warlock are worth using over the other options.

Deciding between False Gods or Amber Plasm usually comes down to whether you already have Minor Slayer from another set like Siroria. The stamina recovery could also be useful if you have to block or dodge frequently, but that’s more of a PVP thing.

kringled_1

I'm going to have to try switching a build from lich to warlock once this next patch drops, as I'm looking for (preferably single bar) high out of combat magicka sustain to support extended periods of cloak.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

PVP or PVE?

In PVE, I am never going to recommend a true sustain set for a group oriented DPS. False god is more than enough when you combine with other options (food, class tools, potions, regen enchants, synergies, spell sym, etc.). False god is not what I would call meta damage, but if I could only run one setup on all my magic toons, it would probably be Falsegod/Medusa. Close to meta DPS with plenty of sustain and utility.

In PVP, I would look at Lich, AmberPlasm, or magnus/seducer. All have their pros and cons. I think Lich is best for pure magic sustain, but I like the other options a bit better. This is coming from someone that ran a Lich/Spinner build for like 2 years straight. Amber is better for your off stats (also useful in PVP) and seducer is crafted so it allows flexibility in how you setup your build. Lich shines as a back bar set were you control the proc as needed. Effective, but perhaps harder to manage and get geared because you really want a back bar weapon, usually a resto staff or S+B.

khaoticfury

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

PVP or PVE?

In PVE, I am never going to recommend a true sustain set for a group oriented DPS. False god is more than enough when you combine with other options (food, class tools, potions, regen enchants, synergies, spell sym, etc.). False god is not what I would call meta damage, but if I could only run one setup on all my magic toons, it would probably be Falsegod/Medusa. Close to meta DPS with plenty of sustain and utility.

In PVP, I would look at Lich, AmberPlasm, or magnus/seducer. All have their pros and cons. I think Lich is best for pure magic sustain, but I like the other options a bit better. This is coming from someone that ran a Lich/Spinner build for like 2 years straight. Amber is better for your off stats (also useful in PVP) and seducer is crafted so it allows flexibility in how you setup your build. Lich shines as a back bar set were you control the proc as needed. Effective, but perhaps harder to manage and get geared because you really want a back bar weapon, usually a resto staff or S+B.

My build is a one bar solo build, so just looking for sustain. My other bar is my group healing bar, and I use AlphaGear mod to switch armor setups.

Urzigurumash

Does anybody on PC have access to analytics which can tell us exactly how Spell Parasite works? If you have 1 AoE DoT going on 2 enemies, you'll only get 1 tick from Spell Parasite, right? Unless the DoT ticks happen to somehow occur .25 seconds apart from each other? Can it proc off sets like Overwhelming, which might proc it outside of the GCD and thus taking advantage of the .25 second cooldown? If not, what else can proc it more than once a second, just Mystic Orb? I know procs don't proc procs as a rule, but I'm not sure if this set is an exception.

WuffyCerulei

False gods is good for pve. If you don't have that yet or are not cp160, get a set of Seducer's. For pvp, Lich is my go to set for sustain.

NoSoup

For a 1 bar build I would just drop jabs altogether and run a maelstrom lightning staff with pale order. Magplars have access to 100% uptime of empower so your dps and healing will be higher than jabs and you can go ranged and will have endless magic

khaoticfury

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

False gods is good for pve. If you don't have that yet or are not cp160, get a set of Seducer's. For pvp, Lich is my go to set for sustain.

for solo pve, would seducers out-perform lich in magicka sustain?

Zodiarkslayer

khaoticfury wrote: »

I am currently refining my Magplar, and attempting to stop him from goin mag dry every fight due to jabs. I am changing enchants on jewelry to mag recovery, and will get recovery mundus. I have locked down 2/3 sets I want to use for him, which are Sentinel monster set and Overwhelming for other.

My question is, what would be the best sustain set to fill last set? I have researched sets like Lich, Amberplasm, Seducer, etc, but want feedback from folks who actually use them.

That sounds like you do not need another sustain set. What is your magicka recovery right now? 1700, 1800? At that point you should concern yourself with survivability much more than sustain. Or damage.

khaoticfury wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

PVP or PVE?

In PVE, I am never going to recommend a true sustain set for a group oriented DPS. False god is more than enough when you combine with other options (food, class tools, potions, regen enchants, synergies, spell sym, etc.). False god is not what I would call meta damage, but if I could only run one setup on all my magic toons, it would probably be Falsegod/Medusa. Close to meta DPS with plenty of sustain and utility.

In PVP, I would look at Lich, AmberPlasm, or magnus/seducer. All have their pros and cons. I think Lich is best for pure magic sustain, but I like the other options a bit better. This is coming from someone that ran a Lich/Spinner build for like 2 years straight. Amber is better for your off stats (also useful in PVP) and seducer is crafted so it allows flexibility in how you setup your build. Lich shines as a back bar set were you control the proc as needed. Effective, but perhaps harder to manage and get geared because you really want a back bar weapon, usually a resto staff or S+B.

My build is a one bar solo build, so just looking for sustain. My other bar is my group healing bar, and I use AlphaGear mod to switch armor setups.

Obviously you will lack in damage from what I gather. Seriously! Take Mother's Sorrow or Medusa and enjoy the higher damage.

And just to be clear: You are using Sweeps, right? The magicka morph. Not Jabs, the stamina morph.

mocap

try to stay on Rune and reroll as Breton for even more sustain.

Bright-Throat's (set) + Witch mother brew (drink) is also very good combo. Though i don't think you need that much of sustain.

Kurat

Next patch everyone will use parse food. Sustain sets become obsolete.

khaoticfury

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

khaoticfury wrote: »

I am currently refining my Magplar, and attempting to stop him from goin mag dry every fight due to jabs. I am changing enchants on jewelry to mag recovery, and will get recovery mundus. I have locked down 2/3 sets I want to use for him, which are Sentinel monster set and Overwhelming for other.

My question is, what would be the best sustain set to fill last set? I have researched sets like Lich, Amberplasm, Seducer, etc, but want feedback from folks who actually use them.

That sounds like you do not need another sustain set. What is your magicka recovery right now? 1700, 1800? At that point you should concern yourself with survivability much more than sustain. Or damage.

khaoticfury wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

PVP or PVE?

In PVE, I am never going to recommend a true sustain set for a group oriented DPS. False god is more than enough when you combine with other options (food, class tools, potions, regen enchants, synergies, spell sym, etc.). False god is not what I would call meta damage, but if I could only run one setup on all my magic toons, it would probably be Falsegod/Medusa. Close to meta DPS with plenty of sustain and utility.

In PVP, I would look at Lich, AmberPlasm, or magnus/seducer. All have their pros and cons. I think Lich is best for pure magic sustain, but I like the other options a bit better. This is coming from someone that ran a Lich/Spinner build for like 2 years straight. Amber is better for your off stats (also useful in PVP) and seducer is crafted so it allows flexibility in how you setup your build. Lich shines as a back bar set were you control the proc as needed. Effective, but perhaps harder to manage and get geared because you really want a back bar weapon, usually a resto staff or S+B.

My build is a one bar solo build, so just looking for sustain. My other bar is my group healing bar, and I use AlphaGear mod to switch armor setups.

Obviously you will lack in damage from what I gather. Seriously! Take Mother's Sorrow or Medusa and enjoy the higher damage.

And just to be clear: You are using Sweeps, right? The magicka morph. Not Jabs, the stamina morph.

recovery right now is 1280, with seducers, and yes i am using sweeps

khaoticfury

Kurat wrote: »

Next patch everyone will use parse food. Sustain sets become obsolete.

why is that?

geonsocal

mocap wrote: »

try to stay on Rune and reroll as Breton for even more sustain.

Bright-Throat's (set) + Witch mother brew (drink) is also very good combo. Though i don't think you need that much of sustain.

I have a couple of toons built to spam time freeze in pvp...it's a really expensive skill and bright throat works great...

Kurat

khaoticfury wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Next patch everyone will use parse food. Sustain sets become obsolete.

why is that?

Because we get extra health. Next patch every race will be between 20-25k hp with recourse and hp food. So we can use max resource + recovery food instead and still have the same amount of health as currently on live.

Vermintide

Kurat wrote: »

khaoticfury wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Next patch everyone will use parse food. Sustain sets become obsolete.

why is that?

Because we get extra health. Next patch every race will be between 20-25k hp with recourse and hp food. So we can use max resource + recovery food instead and still have the same amount of health as currently on live.

Except people will still go with the max resource food just to get the higher numbers, right? If we can get by without the regen now, we still will be able to after.

Vildebill

Vermintide wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

khaoticfury wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Next patch everyone will use parse food. Sustain sets become obsolete.

why is that?

Because we get extra health. Next patch every race will be between 20-25k hp with recourse and hp food. So we can use max resource + recovery food instead and still have the same amount of health as currently on live.

Except people will still go with the max resource food just to get the higher numbers, right? If we can get by without the regen now, we still will be able to after.

*Cries in MagDK*

Septimus_Magna

Next patch sustain will also become easier because there is a new Overcharged debuff that procs off magicka damage and gives minor magicka steal. If you get a restore magicka enchant on your front bar weapon this works in two ways, every enchant proc gives magicka back and the enchant deals magicka damage which has a 20% chance to proc Overcharged.

With Bright-Throat's and Witch mother brew you get more sustain than you'll ever need as a DD. If you use this set and food you can spec everything else (sets, mundus, jewelry enchants etc) into damage.

Ring of the Pale order is also good for sustain because you get constant healing which means you dont have to cast heals/shields/buffs to survive while playing solo.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

khaoticfury wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

False gods is good for pve. If you don't have that yet or are not cp160, get a set of Seducer's. For pvp, Lich is my go to set for sustain.

for solo pve, would seducers out-perform lich in magicka sustain?

@khaoticfury
So Seducer is going to be better from a pure sustain standpoint against a single enemy. 10% cost reduction vs 8% on False god, plus seducer gets two magic recovery bonuses. Now if you start adding dead enemies into the mix, that moves towards false god because the magic return on enemy kill is very powerful.

The other thing to consider is that sustain is 2 sides of a coin. Lets say I need to kill a 1 mil health target. Lets say that in false god, I can do 50k DPS, so I need to sustain for 20 seconds. Maybe in seducer, I can only do 35k DPS (these numbers are just examples), so now the fight takes 28.5k seconds. I need more sustain for the second fight. In other words, DPS helps sustain to some degree.

For PVE sustain, false god is REALLY hard to beat because it is also a relatively strong damage set because of the crit bonuses and Minor Slayer. Minor Slayer is often overlooked. It's very strong, assuming you are killing enemies that are susceptible to it.

If someone deleted my account today, the first endgame set I start grinding is False God, no question.

Edit: No Coffee. For some reason I read FG instead of lich. I do think lich is ahead of seducer in terms of regen. They can be a little hard to compare, because cost reduction and regen are not apples to apples. Seducer really only gets its full benefit if you are casting every second on the global cooldown. If you do a lot of heavies, are simply dont cast every second, lich gets further ahead. Seducer scales with the cost of the ability you are casting, so there are certainly scenarios where this comes into play. Lich is certainly going to get you to full magic, assuming you have a proc available, faster than lich if you are tapped on resources.

If you dont mind light armor, and are looking for a good back bar set, I like lich. If you need more flexibility in armor weights or ease of getting gear, I would look to seducer. For PVE, I wouldnt run either and farm false god.

Tannus15

Vildebill wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

khaoticfury wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Next patch everyone will use parse food. Sustain sets become obsolete.

why is that?

Because we get extra health. Next patch every race will be between 20-25k hp with recourse and hp food. So we can use max resource + recovery food instead and still have the same amount of health as currently on live.

Except people will still go with the max resource food just to get the higher numbers, right? If we can get by without the regen now, we still will be able to after.

*Cries in MagDK*

MagDK sustain is crazy with a charged staff and the % burning trait CP.

No, people won't use 2 stat over recovery because extra health is largely a wasted stat. You need enough to survive 1 shot hits and after that your healers should keep you alive.

I'd expect everyone to be running lava foot or ghastly eye bowl next patch. 450regen > 4k max health when you're already at 18k+

Stahlor

Tannus15 wrote: »

MagDK sustain is crazy with a charged staff and the % burning trait CP.

Who is running a charged staff in PVE except of a brittle buffer?

Vildebill

Tannus15 wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

khaoticfury wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Next patch everyone will use parse food. Sustain sets become obsolete.

why is that?

Because we get extra health. Next patch every race will be between 20-25k hp with recourse and hp food. So we can use max resource + recovery food instead and still have the same amount of health as currently on live.

Except people will still go with the max resource food just to get the higher numbers, right? If we can get by without the regen now, we still will be able to after.

*Cries in MagDK*

MagDK sustain is crazy with a charged staff and the % burning trait CP.

You should be happy if you find one more person on earth that thinks that MagDK sustain is crazy.

BXR_Lonestar

Like they said above, for PVE, false gods is hard to beat. Its really good because it reduces costs, gives you minor slayer, AND it gives you magika back upon trash mob kill. For single large targets though, I like Lich better, as it will ensure that your magika bar never runs dry, even when there are no trashmobs to kill.

I think for pure sustain Lich > False Gods, but false gods gives you so much other utility that you don't get from Lich that you are basically nuts if you don't run it - at least on a DPS build.

phantasmalD

Tannus15 wrote: »

No, people won't use 2 stat over recovery because extra health is largely a wasted stat. You need enough to survive 1 shot hits and after that your healers should keep you alive.

I'd expect everyone to be running lava foot or ghastly eye bowl next patch. 450regen > 4k max health when you're already at 18k+

Tbh was this tested? This def was my initial assumption as well, but after thinking about it a bit, was the lowered resistances factored into this assessment? You WILL be squishier in U29, mainly cause of CP changes, but also because of armor penalties. Sure you get 10% base damage resistance but that's nowhere near what CP1.0 allowed you to get.

I did some fast testing:
Exact same gear, 5-1-1 light armor, all gold, same skills, spent all my live CP (1220),
My live CP might not be optimized but I tried to go for a reasonable healer build on PTS, prioritizing healer stars until 4 actives, spending only leftover CP on defence.

Test entity - regular crocodile near Twin Arches
On live (810CP) : light attack - 882, tail swipe - 1647
On PTS (1200CP) : light attack - 1134 , tail swipe - 2118
On PTS (max CP - all passives) : light attack - 1057 , tail swipe - 1973

That's ~20-30% increase in damage received. So attack doing ~16k on live would be almost 21k after U29 on light armor DPS/healer builds.
Is 16k still going to be the sweetspot to survive one shots? Can we really roll with parse food?

Edit:

I went back and tested my setup when slotting only defensive passives:
light attack - 952, tail swipe - 1776

So roughly ~8% damage increase seems to be the minimum.