Anyone use race against time for pve/trials etc?

ck37090

Been using barbed trap but looking at the uptime it sucks(at least for me).. Probably not getting tripped and such...I don't like channeled with rotations but race fits well for me... Just wondering if anyone uses it and what thoughts were, thanks

ThePedge

In order to get max uptime from Barbed Trap you have to recast it when there is 2s left. As it takes 2s to arm.

You should also only use Trap on bosses really as they're usually pretty stationary.

Personally I use either Trap or Medusa on bosses as Mag. On Stam just trap.

ck37090

ThePedge wrote: »

In order to get max uptime from Barbed Trap you have to recast it when there is 2s left. As it takes 2s to arm.

You should also only use Trap on bosses really as they're usually pretty stationary.

Personally I use either Trap or Medusa on bosses as Mag. On Stam just trap.

Yeah, I think it's more distance and moving....I do like medusa but that only works with front bar sets like siroria... Sometimes I wanna run false gods so medusa doesn't pair well... Trap you have to be close and it has to trigger...I was just thinking with race I keep a similar rotation and can keep range and also not worry about the trigger going off.. Maybe I'm completely wrong in my thoughts and you don't see builds using it... So came here for input....I know the long morph is used pretty often but it requires a different rotation which I don't like... So....

GreenHere

Personally, I hate that that morph has a cast time, so I just can't bring myself to use it. Cast times don't feel great in general, but to have one on a skill that's "let's go fast and increase damage!" themed just twists my knickers in a way I can't abide. I just use Trap.

Channels/cast times on abilities that aren't actually doing anything for that duration (as opposed to skills like Templar jabs, or the Soul Magic beam ultimate) are just asinine and gross. They gotta go, imo.

Also, I've been holding out hope that either/both of the support roles would get easier ways to supply Minor Force for their team, but years later I'm still waiting.

WrathOfInnos

Agreed, I hate the cast time on Channeled Accel. In order to cast it you need to skip 2 spammables and the Light Attack weave between them, which often means delaying or missing an enchant proc as well. It’s a high opportunity cost, and I’ve found that having no Minor Force buff ends up giving similar DPS to casting Channeled Accel during combat. Channeled Accel is really only good for short fights like trial trash, where you can cast it before combat and then just let it run. This also applies to many older dungeon and trial bosses without much health, or bosses with phases of immunity like Lokkestiiz.

On the topic of Race Against Time, I have tried it, and the damage isn’t far below Channeled Accel. Basically for 36s of Minor Force with RAT you have to cast it 3 times, replacing 3 spammables, but it is instant so you don’t lose any light attacks or enchant procs. The thing that makes RAT worse than Channeled Accel is the cost, it’s not the most expensive skill, however Channeled Accel can help sustain because it forces you to skip a cast. RAT results in a Magicka-cost skill every GCD. Barbed Trap gives better sustain than either, because it’s stamina cost essentially makes it a free cast every 18s.

There’s really no reason to use RAT though, it’s worse than Channeled and doesn’t even work in the pre-combat cast scenario. You would be better off just having no Minor Force, or wearing a set like Medusa (both of these options also free up a skill slot). If you really want to maximize damage then Barbed Trap is the real answer, just requires you to be close to the boss, and it can complicate some rotations with its 18s duration.

Stahlor

They should give magicka characters a proper minor force skill comparable to trap beast.

WrathOfInnos

Stahlor wrote: »

They should give magicka characters a proper minor force skill comparable to trap beast.

Yep, I’ve heard Scalding Rune mentioned as a possibility because it mirrors Trap so well. It’s a little clunky to cast sometimes, but the same could be said about Trap and Channeled Accel.

Or they could give Magicka a proper minor force set like Tzogvins. Medusa is the closest Magicka equivalent, but it doesn’t have the ability to carry the buff over to the back bar like Tzogvins. Medusa is also a heavy armor set which can limit its effectiveness for some builds. Tzogvins has a 5s grace period on the buff being lost so you can front bar it and still cast 3-4 skills back bar while maintaining 100% uptime, and it is a medium armor set.

ealdwin

GreenHere wrote: »

Also, I've been holding out hope that either/both of the support roles would get easier ways to supply Minor Force for their team, but years later I'm still waiting.

This is an interesting idea. Even if it was only implemented through a skill or passive on a new class or a 5th piece bonus on a set, the idea of a Support like a Healer bringing Minor Force to the group could lead to interesting options for group compositions. It would at least enable DDs to drop CA/Trap from their rotations in favor of another DoT perhaps.

WrathOfInnos

ealdwin wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Also, I've been holding out hope that either/both of the support roles would get easier ways to supply Minor Force for their team, but years later I'm still waiting.

This is an interesting idea. Even if it was only implemented through a skill or passive on a new class or a 5th piece bonus on a set, the idea of a Support like a Healer bringing Minor Force to the group could lead to interesting options for group compositions. It would at least enable DDs to drop CA/Trap from their rotations in favor of another DoT perhaps.

@ealdwin @GreenHere It’s real. Twilight Remedy was buffed a few months ago, so the 5pc now gives 15s on Minor Force to anyone who activates your synergy. A little tricky to get synergies to everyone that often, but Altar and Purify both can be used by the whole group, if they are low health or have a negative effect on them. Orb is also multi-synergy but there’s no reliable way to make sure you use the correct orb when everyone is casting them.

Needs more testing, but here is an example of uptimes from a TR healer in vAS+2. https://www.esologs.com/reports/16r7JLGyBqTdQwv8/#fight=3&type=auras&ability=75770

Still not going to be the best support set, even at 100% Minor Force uptime it’s worse than Olorime or RO. And it would need to be very good uptimes to even compete with Claw of Yolna. It’s an option though, especially if Alkosh isn’t needed next patch and there’s an open support set.