World Boss Loot

Avalon

After not receiving any form of WB loot from several WB kills, I started asking around for why, and discovered most people think that only the top 15 on the DPS list get loot. Is this true? If it is, that is a truly horrible mechanic and needs fixed. Just on the surface, not everyone plays DPS - there are tanks and healers, too. And, not everyone has a DPS in their character list, either. Those that DO play DPS, or have a DPS they can do WB with, might not be at the elite levels of DPS that some players are at, as well. Even if only 1% of the players are at that level... the game averages something like 20K players on every platform, at almost all times. So, 1% would be 200 elite level players at all times.

Right now, at least 50 of those are on WB in two zones almost always, especially during prime times. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that means only the elite DPSers are getting loot with that sort of mechanic. And, seeing as this is an event with pretty decent rewards off WB? Shouldn't we be allowing EVERYONE who participates to get 'something'? Not asking for participation trophies, but if someone is there, and actually trying... they might not be in the major leagues. Doesn't mean they don't deserve some form of reward.

I get that this sounds like participation trophies... but, when you are in the same league, yeah, sorry, you didn't win, try next time. But, these aren't the same leagues. We have DPS that blows through the highest difficulty trials and such without even blinking, competing against DPS who can't even get through Maelstrom's first bit, or struggle in Vet Dungeons. We also have Healers and Tanks who hardly do any damage at all, but are still necessary parts of the game.

Do, if that is the mechanic for loot from WB... that needs to change, because it only serves and rewards ONE type, and only the elite of that type (who probably don't need the extra rewards anyway - but the others very likely DO).

orion_1981usub17_ESO

World bosses lose their loot function as they hit the ground, likely due to the amount of corpses under them. I've only gotten loot when I was close enough to loot them as the fell. If they hit the ground then they became unlootable. This typically happens in large crowds in brassland. Morrowind usually I can loot them either way, less people.

Avalon

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

World bosses lose their loot function as they hit the ground, likely due to the amount of corpses under them. I've only gotten loot when I was close enough to loot them as the fell. If they hit the ground then they became unlootable. This typically happens in large crowds in brassland. Morrowind usually I can loot them either way, less people.

I always loot before stuff hits the ground (as the tank of my groups, not hard to do! lol) - but these guys never have loot. The bodies never glow, I never see a prompt, etc. They are just graphics.

redlink1979

Avalon wrote: »

After not receiving any form of WB loot from several WB kills, I started asking around for why, and discovered most people think that only the top 15 on the DPS list get loot. Is this true? (...)

There's no top list to get the loot but according to PC/Mac Patch Notes v2.6.4 (Update 12 & One Tamriel):

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

(...) Combat & Gameplay
- In order to get loot and XP credit for killing a mob, you now only need to deal 3% of its maximum health instead of the previous 10%.
(...)

Your problem involves how low your dps may be and how high the other players dps may be. If there are many players with high dps, you will probably miss the loot.

Avalon

redlink1979 wrote: »

Avalon wrote: »

After not receiving any form of WB loot from several WB kills, I started asking around for why, and discovered most people think that only the top 15 on the DPS list get loot. Is this true? (...)

There's no top list to get the loot but according to PC/Mac Patch Notes v2.6.4 (Update 12 & One Tamriel):

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

(...) Combat & Gameplay
- In order to get loot and XP credit for killing a mob, you now only need to deal 3% of its maximum health instead of the previous 10%.
(...)

Your problem involves how low your dps may be and how high the other players dps may be. If there are many players with high dps, you will probably miss the loot.

And that mechanic is just as bad. With 30 players on a single boss, the odds that each are getting 3% is next to nil, enough that I would just call it nil. Odds are great that only 5-10 of them are actually getting loot due to how FAST the boss is dying. ~10 players out of 30 is horrible for an event where people are farming bosses hardcore.

Kurat

If you play only prime time and support roles then you're not getting anything. I just did all the WBs in Vvardenfell on PC/NA at 5pm est and had to solo 3 of them because there was no people lol. And the other ones I had 2-3 people helping.
I dont get why people complain about the WBs anyways. The loot is kinda trash and if you want it so bad you can still do the guests or the trials. nAS is the fastest trial and any noob can do it. Guaranteed page drop from last boss. Craglorn zone chat is constantly spammed looking for people.

Avalon

Kurat wrote: »

If you play only prime time and support roles then you're not getting anything. I just did all the WBs in Vvardenfell on PC/NA at 5pm est and had to solo 3 of them because there was no people lol. And the other ones I had 2-3 people helping.
I dont get why people complain about the WBs anyways. The loot is kinda trash and if you want it so bad you can still do the guests or the trials. nAS is the fastest trial and any noob can do it. Guaranteed page drop from last boss. Craglorn zone chat is constantly spammed looking for people.

I just ran through most of the WB in CC and MW on Xbox NA, and not one had less than 15 players. One had probably about 30+. So... mileage varies. And, as of yet, not sure if I can cut it at any trial, still untested for Vet Dungeons because my friends just got to 50 (I've played for way longer, have almost 400 CP, but new to tanking - friends play DPS, so had to change to tank or healer to have a group dynamic that allows for grabbing a random 4th on dungeon finder)

So, I find myself back in the normal "what MOST players deal with" category, instead of feeling confident and capable. I'm working my way back to that point, though. But, I don't feel like constantly paying to swap around my skills, stats, etc, and keeping extra gear around just for DPSing, etc. I'm tanking, so I am a tank. I want to enjoy the event, though, which means doing what I can do - Dailies, delves, WB.

But, when there are 30+ people at them, killing the target in 5 seconds or so, very hard to get in 3% as a tank.

Avalon

And, if you don't understand the complaint, after people explain it, then odds are the issue is a lack of sympathy, empathy, from willfully deciding to not understand, or a level of elitism. Either way... do you really think you should be chiming in on that subject if you cannot or will not understand? People who understand, who might not even share the feeling but at least understand, should be discussing a subject.

Kurat

Avalon wrote: »

And, if you don't understand the complaint, after people explain it, then odds are the issue is a lack of sympathy, empathy, from willfully deciding to not understand, or a level of elitism. Either way... do you really think you should be chiming in on that subject if you cannot or will not understand? People who understand, who might not even share the feeling but at least understand, should be discussing a subject.

I understand completely. The 3% requirement is there for a reason. There's so many leeches in this game and it makes sense that you need to do at least some dmg to get the loot. I go around overland and solo WBs all the time, even when there's no event. I see people just watching me and not helping. When the boss is almost dead then they jump in and spam some few skills. People are just lazy and want everything for free or minimal effort. Unfortunately Zos didn't think about events when they implemented the 3% rule.
Support roles have ways to get the loot. Just try during different hours like early morning or midday on weekday etc. Friday night is even crazy for an average dps player to get loot. Also you should be able to do daily guests with your tank.
You said you're cp400, that's more than enough for nAS. Its easier than vet dungeons. It takes 5-10 min to complete nAS even with pugs. Theres only 3 bosses and no trash. Just taunt and hold the boss while dps burns, cant be any easier.

Avalon

Kurat wrote: »

Avalon wrote: »

And, if you don't understand the complaint, after people explain it, then odds are the issue is a lack of sympathy, empathy, from willfully deciding to not understand, or a level of elitism. Either way... do you really think you should be chiming in on that subject if you cannot or will not understand? People who understand, who might not even share the feeling but at least understand, should be discussing a subject.

I understand completely. The 3% requirement is there for a reason. There's so many leeches in this game and it makes sense that you need to do at least some dmg to get the loot. I go around overland and solo WBs all the time, even when there's no event. I see people just watching me and not helping. When the boss is almost dead then they jump in and spam some few skills. People are just lazy and want everything for free or minimal effort. Unfortunately Zos didn't think about events when they implemented the 3% rule.
Support roles have ways to get the loot. Just try during different hours like early morning or midday on weekday etc. Friday night is even crazy for an average dps player to get loot. Also you should be able to do daily guests with your tank.
You said you're cp400, that's more than enough for nAS. Its easier than vet dungeons. It takes 5-10 min to complete nAS even with pugs. Theres only 3 bosses and no trash. Just taunt and hold the boss while dps burns, cant be any easier.

I work early morning to early evening, 6 days a week. The only times I can play ARE prime times. I get my dailies done no problem. The issue is that AFTER doing dailies, what then? I don't even have a clue how to get on an AS run, or what is involved in it. As I said, not very confident yet, and my experience with players in this game, in the time I have played, is that a lot have no idea what they are doing (and get me killed lol), a lot are elitist (and kick me because I don't know something supposedly 'simple and obvious' or don't have the right sets etc). The very few remaining players are cool and awesome...

But, they are very few.

So, I like to solo a lot, until my friends get on... but, then we do dungeons and pledges, etc. What to do during the time I have? WB right now. AS maybe soon, but I don't know it, and have a really bad feeling it will be a bad experience due to those two types of players...

BeefcakeManwich

Kurat wrote: »

Avalon wrote: »

And, if you don't understand the complaint, after people explain it, then odds are the issue is a lack of sympathy, empathy, from willfully deciding to not understand, or a level of elitism. Either way... do you really think you should be chiming in on that subject if you cannot or will not understand? People who understand, who might not even share the feeling but at least understand, should be discussing a subject.

I understand completely. The 3% requirement is there for a reason. There's so many leeches in this game and it makes sense that you need to do at least some dmg to get the loot. I go around overland and solo WBs all the time, even when there's no event. I see people just watching me and not helping. When the boss is almost dead then they jump in and spam some few skills. People are just lazy and want everything for free or minimal effort. Unfortunately Zos didn't think about events when they implemented the 3% rule.
Support roles have ways to get the loot. Just try during different hours like early morning or midday on weekday etc. Friday night is even crazy for an average dps player to get loot. Also you should be able to do daily guests with your tank.
You said you're cp400, that's more than enough for nAS. Its easier than vet dungeons. It takes 5-10 min to complete nAS even with pugs. Theres only 3 bosses and no trash. Just taunt and hold the boss while dps burns, cant be any easier.

So because of your negative experiences of soloing WB and ppl jumping in later. You are applying those feelings to an in game event requirement? Where does it say ppl want things for free. Op was mentioning the WB loot system for "event" needs to be adjusted. Especially when u have hordes of ppl camping a boss because of said event. 3% damage when a boss last less then 5 secs is a lot of damage. I only play dps, so far I haven't had an issue with drops. But I feel for my buddy when he's there participating and all he gets is a quest completion. Do I think the loot drop is trivial. Yes. But should I use that as an excuse for him to not get anything when he's trying. No.

cynicalbutterfly

I'm by far not the best at dps but I can certainly do my fair share and even I can't get a loot drop during events like these. There are so many people hitting the boss that it takes less than a minute to kill it. I get why they placed the loot requirement but it also makes it impossible to get any loot for anyone else that isn't in the top slots. I don't know about anyone else but I rather they removed the limit. I personally could care less if I've got a moocher on the side waiting to jump in for the last few health points. And yes, I am quite aware that loot drops aren't exactly the best however during events you have a chance at getting an event coffer. If no one except the top dpsers are getting the loot drops that isn't fair to anyone else that participated in the fight.

Avalon

Exactly. The problem is fairness to all participants. If 30 people are present and beating as hard as they can, and only 5-10 of them are getting rewards, then who cares if there are freeloaders. I think they are annoying, yeah, but they aren't reason enough for 20+ participants to simply lose out on most of an event. That mechanic needs to be removed, if you touch the enemy, you should get rewards.

LashanW

1 second and 360 milliseconds.
That's how long "The Imperfect" world boss in clockwork city lasted yesterday at prime time. There were like 40+ players camping the boss room spamming ground DoTs at all times. You can get 1 attack in. Who gets loot is pretty much rng at that point. And if you were looking away for 1 second, rip.

Maybe world bosses should have their HP scaled to how many players are at the boss arena or something.

Avalon

LashanW wrote: »

1 second and 360 milliseconds.
That's how long "The Imperfect" world boss in clockwork city lasted yesterday at prime time. There were like 40+ players camping the boss room spamming ground DoTs at all times. You can get 1 attack in. Who gets loot is pretty much rng at that point. And if you were looking away for 1 second, rip.

Maybe world bosses should have their HP scaled to how many players are at the boss arena or something.

Pretty sure the Imperfect had 2.7 million. 3% is 81K. Elite DPS requires no less than 70K. Most have over 100K. So, what you are saying proves my point: only the elite DPS get rewards. The best DPS I have ever done is about 15K. I don't even understand how players can get to 100K...

Ratzkifal

You are right, that mechanic is bad, but ZOS has incentives to keep it in place. If everyone in a large crowd at a boss fight was eligible for loot, people would be done grinding the things they want a lot faster, which means players will spent less time logged into their game, which is the whole reason we are having these events in the first place to artificially drive up playtime hours so ZOS can show off to their investors.

Ratzkifal

LashanW wrote: »

1 second and 360 milliseconds.
That's how long "The Imperfect" world boss in clockwork city lasted yesterday at prime time. There were like 40+ players camping the boss room spamming ground DoTs at all times. You can get 1 attack in. Who gets loot is pretty much rng at that point. And if you were looking away for 1 second, rip.

Maybe world bosses should have their HP scaled to how many players are at the boss arena or something.

Either they should scale their HP or they should put in a cap how much damage a boss can take per second at max.
A cap at 200k dps would leave the Imperfect alive for 15 seconds which is long enough for it to attack back and do its mechanics while also leaving normal sized groups completely unaffected by it.

Avalon

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You are right, that mechanic is bad, but ZOS has incentives to keep it in place. If everyone in a large crowd at a boss fight was eligible for loot, people would be done grinding the things they want a lot faster, which means players will spent less time logged into their game, which is the whole reason we are having these events in the first place to artificially drive up playtime hours so ZOS can show off to their investors.

That makes no sense. People are only jumping on these to farm because they finally have tons of support and help. Without that, they wouldn't do it. Because of no loot, they are likely to NOT do it anymore, and depending on frustrations, might even quit.

So, no... not good reasoning to earn more money or keep people playing.

katanagirl1

LashanW wrote: »

1 second and 360 milliseconds.
That's how long "The Imperfect" world boss in clockwork city lasted yesterday at prime time. There were like 40+ players camping the boss room spamming ground DoTs at all times. You can get 1 attack in. Who gets loot is pretty much rng at that point. And if you were looking away for 1 second, rip.

Maybe world bosses should have their HP scaled to how many players are at the boss arena or something.

The other CWC boss, Wraith of Crows (actually 3 bosses) was only up for a blink of an eye for me today. Never seen anything like it.

I don’t really care if I don’t get loot though, I get credit for the kill and I leave CWC as fast as I can.

Really though, an artificial limit on the number of players who get loot is not fair if more than that actually do enough dps to get the loot.

Every player who is there is constantly spamming AOEs until the boss appears, causing terrible lag and occasionally crashing the game for me. How about something that doesn’t count the AOE damage that is dropped before, including all ticks thereafter?

LashanW

Avalon wrote: »

Pretty sure the Imperfect had 2.7 million. 3% is 81K. Elite DPS requires no less than 70K. Most have over 100K. So, what you are saying proves my point: only the elite DPS get rewards. The best DPS I have ever done is about 15K. I don't even understand how players can get to 100K...

It's a single target fight that lasted less than 2 seconds. Standard DPS numbers have no meaning there.

Remember all skills have a 1 second global cooldown, all those fancy 100k+ DPS parses you hear about takes a few seconds to ramp up to that point, some classes need a few seconds in the execute range to get high DPS. None of that applies here. This is about burst damage in a very short period of time.

What I'm trying to say is, forget about standard DPS rotations. Just place as many ground DoTs as you can before boss spawns, then just spam your spammable attack. It's pretty stupid but there is no time for anything else, no time to place single target DoTs, no time to place most debuffs. If you are a support role, don't bother placing any debuffs or support skills. Boss will only die even faster while you get nothing.

Or, you try your luck during off-peak times like @Kurat said, but may not be possible for everyone.

Kurat wrote: »

If you play only prime time and support roles then you're not getting anything. I just did all the WBs in Vvardenfell on PC/NA at 5pm est and had to solo 3 of them because there was no people lol. And the other ones I had 2-3 people helping.
I dont get why people complain about the WBs anyways. The loot is kinda trash and if you want it so bad you can still do the guests or the trials

Vvardenfell has 6 world bosses so people are spread more. Clockwork city has only 2 world bosses so these are a lot more populated.

This is utterly stupid during events like this considering world bosses takes a few minutes to spawn and dies in 2 seconds. They really should have scalable HP atleast during events such as these (where you know people will be zerging world bosses).

aetherial_heavenn

My cheese: Put an aoe Ult on one bar and charge it up on the side quest before doing the WB. Spam ground aoes, until boss spawns, as soon as boss appears drop destro ult. Even if you insta die from getting aggro you'll likely get something that way. I have. If you lose 360ms through Oceanic ping of the 1 sec 360ms uptime you gotta cheese it

But I agree the top x % dps cut off mechanic sucks for new/lower level/low dps players and those who are trying to fight like normal and don't know about ground aoe tagging or how to do instant burst.

The respawn timer on Clockwork City WB's could be quicker during the event, too.

Someone said today if you group up then you have a better chance of drops if you have low dps but I haven't tested it.

(FWIW I think cmx said I did 20k aoe total on the crows- my gear is certainly not BiS because my character usually heals- so you don't have to be elite, or even good, just be quick with your strongest aoe DPS skill for crows and maybe use your instant single target ult for other WB's).
Good luck

amm7sb14_ESO

Typical MMO logic: punish all players for the actions of a few.

SickleCider

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Typical MMO logic: punish all players for the actions of a few.

Yup, this about sums it up.

It doesn't even bother me that much if I see some little nugget waiting in the side to score a couple hits on a WB I'm soloing. It's not as though I need the assistance and their getting loot doesn't detract from my experience. On the other hand watching how sad and frustrated people are getting does detract from my experience. Because, like. Yeah, I've got mine, but I'm not soulless.

jle30303

When there are so many players in the area that you can't make out individual names, just a thick blue line where text should be... and the bosses die in 1 second...

I wouldn't mind if the people who did most of the damage, and got boss loot, *left* after getting it.

But they stay.

And that means that people who do less damage NEVER get loot.

Now, this is important, not because of the standard boss loot (which is fairly trashy and repeatable) but the Event Box loot which bosses have a chance to drop. Some people are getting loads of those, and others are getting nothing, because they can't get any loot from the boss.

At the very least, implement a limit: one event box per world boss, delve boss, public dungeon boss, quest boss, per player per day. Got your loot box from Wraith of Crows? right, you're never getting another one today, only one from the Imperfect, so no point farming Wraith of Crows when all you'll get is ordinary boss trash.

And then I ran into the OTHER boss mechanic: Having finally, at the sixth attempt, somehow managed to do enough damage to Wraith of Crows to get actual loot from it... I got 3 gold. Not the normal boss loot. Even though I had not gotten any boss loot from it in five previous attempts today. It looks like actually failing to get loot (by virtue of not doing enough damage) still sets the counter that stops you getting loot. Which is very much not fair.

Miszou

My main is a tank, and FWIW, this events sucks. There's no way I'm getting 3% damage on a boss that dies in 2 seconds. Absolutely not gonna happen.

And no, even if I could switch to a "better" character and cheese the loot rewards, I'd only be taking it from someone else.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]

SickleCider

jle30303 wrote: »

When there are so many players in the area that you can't make out individual names, just a thick blue line where text should be... and the bosses die in 1 second...

I wouldn't mind if the people who did most of the damage, and got boss loot, *left* after getting it.

But they stay.

And that means that people who do less damage NEVER get loot.

Now, this is important, not because of the standard boss loot (which is fairly trashy and repeatable) but the Event Box loot which bosses have a chance to drop. Some people are getting loads of those, and others are getting nothing, because they can't get any loot from the boss.

At the very least, implement a limit: one event box per world boss, delve boss, public dungeon boss, quest boss, per player per day. Got your loot box from Wraith of Crows? right, you're never getting another one today, only one from the Imperfect, so no point farming Wraith of Crows when all you'll get is ordinary boss trash.

And then I ran into the OTHER boss mechanic: Having finally, at the sixth attempt, somehow managed to do enough damage to Wraith of Crows to get actual loot from it... I got 3 gold. Not the normal boss loot. Even though I had not gotten any boss loot from it in five previous attempts today. It looks like actually failing to get loot (by virtue of not doing enough damage) still sets the counter that stops you getting loot. Which is very much not fair.

Two crows drop loot. One drops gold pieces and the other drops the goods. Sometimes they fall just far enough apart that "consolidate area loot" doesn't pick them both up. I wish I could tell you which crow by name has the goods, but it seems random. Look for two corpses.

As for the coffers, you can get them from regular mobs, material nodes, and treasure chests. People camping bosses are farming Ordinator Pages, which only drop from WBs (or the final boss of pertinent trials). Blame ZOS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

magnusthorek

On Tribunal Event's day one I was in a CWC instance fighting The Imperfect and there were so many players that the thing went down in, literally, one second (well, maybe a few milliseconds too). My DPS was impressive 9.6k, barely got time to land a Blazing Shard and one weave. And yet, I've my got crappy got loot just fine

Vonkarolinas

redlink1979 wrote: »

Avalon wrote: »

After not receiving any form of WB loot from several WB kills, I started asking around for why, and discovered most people think that only the top 15 on the DPS list get loot. Is this true? (...)

There's no top list to get the loot but according to PC/Mac Patch Notes v2.6.4 (Update 12 & One Tamriel):

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

(...) Combat & Gameplay
- In order to get loot and XP credit for killing a mob, you now only need to deal 3% of its maximum health instead of the previous 10%.
(...)

Your problem involves how low your dps may be and how high the other players dps may be. If there are many players with high dps, you will probably miss the loot.

I know this is a little late, but I wanted to point this out. The entire post is focusing on wrong information. If you read this again the 3% damage requirement is for mobs, not Bosses. They are different in terms of requirements. These notes have no relevance to getting world boss loot.