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Make status effects stacking instead of minor & major.
Ceejengine
✭✭✭
Currently, buffs / debuffs have a Minor and Major version. Each creature can have 1 instance of both Minor and Major, which stack. For example, Minor Berserk increases damage done by 5%, and Major Berserk increases damage done by 10%, for a combined total of 15% increased damage. I believe this system greatly reduces the options that players have in terms of skill sets, gearsets and playstyles. It also creates a ton of redundancies within a party, which makes pugging even more miserable than it should be.
I propose that we modify this system by removing Minor and Major effects, and instead implement a stacking feature for each status effect. For each stack, the effect of the status effect increases. For our Berserk example, instead of a fixed 5% or 10%, each stack of Berserk increases your damage done by 0.25%, for a total increase of 25% increased damage at 100 stacks.
Give each effect a standardized time such as 15 seconds, or 30 seconds, or whatever is the most correct length of time. Do not increase the duration each time stacks are added. Once a buff / debuff timer reaches 0 seconds, it ends and the new one starts at whatever number of stacks the skill generates.
Abilities that currently grant a minor version of a buff instead give 5-10 stacks, and abilities that grant major version now grant 10-25 stacks.
Effects that modify the duration or effect of these buffs/debuffs would become an effect on the creature itself. These effects will have two different values. One for being in a standard team or solo, and one for being in a large group. These effects will stack up to 10 times using the value in parentheses.
For example, the Blooddrinker set increases the damage-over-time of your Bleeds by 33%. With this system, it'd look more like this;
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5) When you inflict the Bleed status on a creature, you also inflict the following effect "Blooddrinker: Lasts 30 seconds. This creature suffers +15%(6%) more damage from the Bleeding status effect."
The number in parenthesis is only used when in a large group, and only if multiple sources of that specific buff / debuff were applied. If only a single person in a 12 man group is wearing Blooddrinker, then the 15% increase would apply. If there's 2 players wearing this set, then the total buff value would be 2 Stacks of Blooddrinker @ 6% per stack, so a 12% increase to Bleeding damage.
Regular abilities that apply their own specific effects wouldn't be affected by this new system. (Unless you want to.). Due to the intelligent nature of Stam / Magicka costs, Players can absolutely spam abilities to boost their stack numbers.
Below is a general idea of each Buff / Debuff.
BUFFS
Aegis: Reduce the damage you take from dungeon and Trial monsters by 0.25% per stack.
Berserk: Increases all damage done by 0.25% per stack.
Brutality: Increases weapon damage by 0.30% per stack.
Courage: Increase Weapon and Spell damage by 5 per stack.
Empower: Increase the damage of Light, Medium, and Heavy attacks by 0.60% per stack.
Endurance: Increase Stamina recovery by 0.40% per stack.
Evasion: Reduce damage suffered from Area attacks by 0.25% per stack.
Expedition: Increase movement speed by 0.30% per stack.
Force: Increase all critical damage done by 0.20% per stack.
Fortitude: Increase Health recovery by 0.20% per stack.
Gallop: Increase Mounted speed by 0.30% per stack.
Heroism: For every 30 stacks, you increase your Ultimate generation by 1.
Intellect: Increase Magicka recovery by 0.40% per stack.
Mending: Increase Healing done by 0.15% per stack.
Prophecy: Increase Spell Critical rating by 22 per stack.
Protection: Reduce damage done by 0.10% per stack.
Resolve: Increase Physical and Spell Resistance by 60 per stack.
Savagery: Increase Weapon Critical rating by 22 per stack.
Slayer: Increase the damage you deal to Dungeon and Trial monsters by 0.25% per stack.
Sorcery: Increase Spell Damage by 0.20% per stack.
Toughness: Increase maximum health by 0.10% per stack.
Vitality: Increase healing received by 0.15% per stack.
DEBUFFS
Bleeding: For each stack, suffer 15 Bleed damage every one second and increase the cost of your Stamina abilities by 10.
Burning: For each stack, suffer 30 Flame damage per second.
Breach: Decrease Physical and Spell resistance by 60 per stack.
Brittle: Increase critical damage taken by 0.10% per stack.
Chilled: Reduce Movement Speed by 0.30% per stack. If this effect reaches 100 Stacks, remove this condition, you become Frozen for 10 seconds instead.
Concussed: Reduce the damage of Light, Medium and Heavy attacks by 0.40% per stack.
Cowardice: Reduce Weapon and Spell damage by 5 per stack.
Defile: Reduce healing received by 0.15% per stack.
Diseased: For each stack, suffer 15 Disease damage every one second and increase the cost of your Magicka abilities by 10.
Enervation: Reduce critical damage dealt by 0.15% per stack.
Lifesteal: Each Attack you make heals your target for 6 health per Stack.
Magickasteal: Each Attack you make restores 6 Magicka to the target per stack.
Maim: Reduce damage dealt by 0.10%.
Mangle: Reduce maximum health by 0.10% per stack.
Poisoned: For each Stack, suffer 15 Poison damage and increase the damage you suffer from Poison abilities by 0.50%.
Sundered: Increase damage taken by 0.10% per stack.
Fixed
Frozen: You cannot move, break free or Roll Dodge. You suffer 20% more damage from Heavy Attacks. If you are frozen for more than 3 seconds, you gain 50 stacks of Brittle. If you are hit by a Heavy Attack while at 40% health or lower, you shatter, suffering x,000 damage and ending this effect.
The reason I propose this change is 3-fold;
1.) I believe as the game goes on, more and more sets will be shut off from players as more effective and efficient sets become available. By removing the dichotomous Minor / Major restriction, Players will have a MASSIVE gain to their end-game options.
2.) Right now there are a TON of unseen redundancies in groups because of the extremely limiting Minor / Major system.
3.) It adds another layer of cooperation to group play.
Additionally, if you wanted to, you could class Weapon Types (Like you're doing to armor) and assign standardized debuffs to each type. Something like
Bladed: (Sword, Greatsword): Bleeding. Light Attacks inflict 1 stack, Heavy inflicts 3. Double for 2h or DW.
Edged: (Axe, Battle Axe): Sundered. Light Attacks inflict 1 stack, Heavy inflicts 3. Double for 2h or DW.
Blunt: (Mace, Maul): Concussed. Light Attacks inflict 1 stack, Heavy inflicts 3. Double for 2h or DW.
Piercing: (Bow, Dagger): Breach. Light Attacks inflict 1 stack, Heavy inflicts 3. Double for Bow or DW.
Inferno Staff: Burning. Light Attacks inflict 2 stacks, Heavy inflicts 6.
Ice Staff: Chilled. Light Attacks inflict 2 stacks, Heavy inflicts 6.
Lightning Staff Maim. Light Attacks inflict 2 stacks, Heavy inflicts 6.
Edited by Ceejengine on February 24, 2021 7:03AM I propose that we modify this system by removing Minor and Major effects, and instead implement a stacking feature for each status effect. For each stack, the effect of the status effect increases. For our Berserk example, instead of a fixed 5% or 10%, each stack of Berserk increases your damage done by 0.25%, for a total increase of 25% increased damage at 100 stacks.
Give each effect a standardized time such as 15 seconds, or 30 seconds, or whatever is the most correct length of time. Do not increase the duration each time stacks are added. Once a buff / debuff timer reaches 0 seconds, it ends and the new one starts at whatever number of stacks the skill generates.
Abilities that currently grant a minor version of a buff instead give 5-10 stacks, and abilities that grant major version now grant 10-25 stacks.
Effects that modify the duration or effect of these buffs/debuffs would become an effect on the creature itself. These effects will have two different values. One for being in a standard team or solo, and one for being in a large group. These effects will stack up to 10 times using the value in parentheses.
For example, the Blooddrinker set increases the damage-over-time of your Bleeds by 33%. With this system, it'd look more like this;
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5) When you inflict the Bleed status on a creature, you also inflict the following effect "Blooddrinker: Lasts 30 seconds. This creature suffers +15%(6%) more damage from the Bleeding status effect."
The number in parenthesis is only used when in a large group, and only if multiple sources of that specific buff / debuff were applied. If only a single person in a 12 man group is wearing Blooddrinker, then the 15% increase would apply. If there's 2 players wearing this set, then the total buff value would be 2 Stacks of Blooddrinker @ 6% per stack, so a 12% increase to Bleeding damage.
Regular abilities that apply their own specific effects wouldn't be affected by this new system. (Unless you want to.). Due to the intelligent nature of Stam / Magicka costs, Players can absolutely spam abilities to boost their stack numbers.
Below is a general idea of each Buff / Debuff.
BUFFS
Aegis: Reduce the damage you take from dungeon and Trial monsters by 0.25% per stack.
Berserk: Increases all damage done by 0.25% per stack.
Brutality: Increases weapon damage by 0.30% per stack.
Courage: Increase Weapon and Spell damage by 5 per stack.
Empower: Increase the damage of Light, Medium, and Heavy attacks by 0.60% per stack.
Endurance: Increase Stamina recovery by 0.40% per stack.
Evasion: Reduce damage suffered from Area attacks by 0.25% per stack.
Expedition: Increase movement speed by 0.30% per stack.
Force: Increase all critical damage done by 0.20% per stack.
Fortitude: Increase Health recovery by 0.20% per stack.
Gallop: Increase Mounted speed by 0.30% per stack.
Heroism: For every 30 stacks, you increase your Ultimate generation by 1.
Intellect: Increase Magicka recovery by 0.40% per stack.
Mending: Increase Healing done by 0.15% per stack.
Prophecy: Increase Spell Critical rating by 22 per stack.
Protection: Reduce damage done by 0.10% per stack.
Resolve: Increase Physical and Spell Resistance by 60 per stack.
Savagery: Increase Weapon Critical rating by 22 per stack.
Slayer: Increase the damage you deal to Dungeon and Trial monsters by 0.25% per stack.
Sorcery: Increase Spell Damage by 0.20% per stack.
Toughness: Increase maximum health by 0.10% per stack.
Vitality: Increase healing received by 0.15% per stack.
DEBUFFS
Bleeding: For each stack, suffer 15 Bleed damage every one second and increase the cost of your Stamina abilities by 10.
Burning: For each stack, suffer 30 Flame damage per second.
Breach: Decrease Physical and Spell resistance by 60 per stack.
Brittle: Increase critical damage taken by 0.10% per stack.
Chilled: Reduce Movement Speed by 0.30% per stack. If this effect reaches 100 Stacks, remove this condition, you become Frozen for 10 seconds instead.
Concussed: Reduce the damage of Light, Medium and Heavy attacks by 0.40% per stack.
Cowardice: Reduce Weapon and Spell damage by 5 per stack.
Defile: Reduce healing received by 0.15% per stack.
Diseased: For each stack, suffer 15 Disease damage every one second and increase the cost of your Magicka abilities by 10.
Enervation: Reduce critical damage dealt by 0.15% per stack.
Lifesteal: Each Attack you make heals your target for 6 health per Stack.
Magickasteal: Each Attack you make restores 6 Magicka to the target per stack.
Maim: Reduce damage dealt by 0.10%.
Mangle: Reduce maximum health by 0.10% per stack.
Poisoned: For each Stack, suffer 15 Poison damage and increase the damage you suffer from Poison abilities by 0.50%.
Sundered: Increase damage taken by 0.10% per stack.
Fixed
Frozen: You cannot move, break free or Roll Dodge. You suffer 20% more damage from Heavy Attacks. If you are frozen for more than 3 seconds, you gain 50 stacks of Brittle. If you are hit by a Heavy Attack while at 40% health or lower, you shatter, suffering x,000 damage and ending this effect.
The reason I propose this change is 3-fold;
1.) I believe as the game goes on, more and more sets will be shut off from players as more effective and efficient sets become available. By removing the dichotomous Minor / Major restriction, Players will have a MASSIVE gain to their end-game options.
2.) Right now there are a TON of unseen redundancies in groups because of the extremely limiting Minor / Major system.
3.) It adds another layer of cooperation to group play.
Additionally, if you wanted to, you could class Weapon Types (Like you're doing to armor) and assign standardized debuffs to each type. Something like
Bladed: (Sword, Greatsword): Bleeding. Light Attacks inflict 1 stack, Heavy inflicts 3. Double for 2h or DW.
Edged: (Axe, Battle Axe): Sundered. Light Attacks inflict 1 stack, Heavy inflicts 3. Double for 2h or DW.
Blunt: (Mace, Maul): Concussed. Light Attacks inflict 1 stack, Heavy inflicts 3. Double for 2h or DW.
Piercing: (Bow, Dagger): Breach. Light Attacks inflict 1 stack, Heavy inflicts 3. Double for Bow or DW.
Inferno Staff: Burning. Light Attacks inflict 2 stacks, Heavy inflicts 6.
Ice Staff: Chilled. Light Attacks inflict 2 stacks, Heavy inflicts 6.
Lightning Staff Maim. Light Attacks inflict 2 stacks, Heavy inflicts 6.
0
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caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭You realise status effect were standardised some years back just because of this stacking? There were countless unnamed buffs that basically did the same thing.
And no, don't want even worse performance than we have now. The system is ok.1 -
Ceejengine✭✭✭You realise status effect were standardised some years back just because of this stacking? There were countless unnamed buffs that basically did the same thing.
And no, don't want even worse performance than we have now. The system is ok.
They used the current system to standardize things. This suggestion is also standardized. All of the buffs and debuffs in my list are named.
Thanks,
Ceej0 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Solo players would need effective mechanisms for stack generation. Without that you can say goodbye to solo arena runs, and it sounds like unwelcome micromanaging to me. Buff redundancy is a thing in trials but this is not the solution, I feel.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨0 -
Greystag✭✭✭✭I'd rather not have to cast Combat Prayer 20 times per minute lol.
This system you propose would be fine, but it would break the game as we know it. Not because it's bad, you clearly put time into it, but because the current system is already standardised and changing it like this would require too much time and money, all to end up with a system which in my opinion is overly complicated (having to keep track of all your minor and major buff charges instead).
Your main reasons for this are that it makes sets useless or reduces variety, and that it creates redundancies in PUGs.
As for sets, rather than changing the system, perhaps they should work to make sets more unique. Even if two sets grant the same Major buff, they can still bring new things to the table. A perfect example of this is Olorime and SPC. Both offer the same buff, but most people would agree that depending on your group and the content, one is better than the other.
Also, useless sets arent usually useless because they offer a major or minor buff found elsewhere.
As for redundancy in PUGs, can you give some examples? I assume you mainly mean trials, where many times both healers will run the same sets (such as SPC) making one of them redundant.
If this is the case, rather than invest so much effort in designing a new system that adapts to it, we should normalise having healers and tanks ask each other which sets they're running before starting the trial. It's an MMO after all. Two players applying the same buff because they didnt sort their sets out is not the thing making PUGs miserable, by a long shot.| PC / EU |
| Aspen Greystag, Khajiit Warden |
| Healer, Tank |
| CP: 2500 |
| Guilds: Officer at Meridia's Light |1 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I HATE HECKING STACKS IN ANY WAY AND FORM!!!
Ahem... thank you for your attention.5 -
Ceejengine✭✭✭Versispellis wrote: »Solo players would need effective mechanisms for stack generation. Without that you can say goodbye to solo arena runs, and it sounds like unwelcome micromanaging to me. Buff redundancy is a thing in trials but this is not the solution, I feel.
I think with tuning this system balances with opponent durability, giving a tier feeling between solo content, group content, and large group content.
The ideal power level here sees 100 stacks exceeding current major + minor combined percentages. Meaning in mid-high solo play or group content, you average around 50 stacks, and in high group or trial content, you should consistently see 100 stacks if the team focuses on it.
I agree that it does add a layer of micro management over the current system, but I think the pay off of opening up gear and skills to players makes it worth it.
I dont think the average player who gets their build from Alcast would do anything different than they do now, but if they wanted to, this system would allow a greater level of control over how they play.
Thanks,
Ceej0 -
Flaaklypa✭✭✭✭✭Please no, what is this?? Current system is fine and this would break pvp ... please let experienced designers come up with changes3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ceejengine wrote: »I propose that we modify this system by removing Minor and Major effects, and instead implement a stacking feature for each status effect.
Translation: A return to the way the game worked at launch, where you could stack percentage bonuses from multiple sources and had less build diversity than you see now, because stacking % bonuses was a strictly superior build approach.
Right now, if you're dual wielding, you can choose between including hidden blade, a potion, or a set (like Dreugh King Slayer) to get your Major Brutality. Under your system, you'd be encouraged to use all three.
And, let's not forget the whole, "Slap NMG and Sunderflame on a sacrificial stamplar to reduce the boss's resists." That's no longer compulsory for trial setups.
The named major/minor buff system actually offers more build variety than your suggestion would.1 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭One of the worst ideas ive seen lately... they spent all this time on cp and recent changes to simplify the games number crunching to do less micro management and you wanna make the game twice as laggy and clunky than it currently is0 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please, don't make ESO become GW2I am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Image the insane DPS you'd be able to pull off with this change. Yeah, no thankyou.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭No..! The current Major and Minor are just fine. I dislike anything that stacks. I don't use any build or sets that have stacking option or proc. Just not for me. I hate waiting for the stack to add up. I'm all about slam, bang, thank you, ma'am and move on to the next. Ha ha. Also, reason why I don't use or like crit build; just don't like waiting for the crit to hit. Hey, no debating on crit or damage build from me; to each their own, of course and whatever works for you. However, it would be nice if Major stacks, like Minor does.0 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stacking stacking stacking this would actually limit the choices people have and create more of a meta build. It's really not something we should go back too. Appreciate the effort you put into writing this, but I think the Devs are the ones building and getting a paycheck to make this game work. Why not just enjoy the game instead of trying to suggest how they do their job? I really can't believe anyone would spend this much time trying to tell Z how to change this game, but hey good job on the write up.0
