Akatosh, Auni-El and Anu?

Texecutioner187

So we had a very back and forth convo last night in Band chat triggered by a Lore driven guildie. I wanted to state his perspective and from the ESO Lore community, get confirmation or clarification about his point:

"Anu and Akatosh are different entities, and no one calls Akatosh Anu-Eil.... ..it goes Anu->Anui-El->Auri-El... They are all DIFFERENT BEINGS, Not interchangable"

Anyone want to chime in on this? This debate went on for a long time and ended up in religion memes and at some point discussion that caterpillars become butterflies. It was everywhere... Help!

Vevvev

Anu is Order and Sithis is Chaos.

The Divines are products of these forces being mixed and why they have morals in lore. Your guildie is right in that Anu is not Akatosh.

Texecutioner187

Never mentioned Sithis. So you say that Anu, Anui-El and Auri-El are all different entities?

Crazyprophet

I thought Auri-El and Akatosh were the same entitiy but yeah I'm not sure about Anu.

At the end of the day, like a lot of Elder Scrolls lore, it's deliberately left somewhat ambiguous. I kinda like that about Elder Scrolls religion. We don't have all the answers.

Texecutioner187

I just found this:
"Auri-El (or Auriel), King of the Aldmer, is the elven analogue[equivalent] to Akatosh and the chief deity of most Aldmeri pantheons He is the soul of Anui-El, who is the soul of Anu the Everything, and it is said time began with his existence."

Ref: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Auri-El

RaddlemanNumber7

Define "different". It's just semantics. An irrelevant distraction. A dead end. Forget it.

There are two important things that really are important about the sequence Anu -> Anui-El -> Auri-El.

Firstly, it is the beginning of the Altmer family tree. It is their claim for direct descent from the Divines - Anu is the first, Anu begets Anui-El, Anui-El begets Auri-El, and so on, in a direct line of descent to every Altmer on Tamriel. I'm sure they all have it written down at the top of their pedigree.

Secondly, it is wrong, a lie. Nothing is missing from the beginning of the sequence (that's a genuine TES Lore Dad joke right there). What I mean is that it's a zero-based array - 0,1,2,3. While Anu is the first, El is the zeroth (the nothing at the start of everything). El is also known as the Psjjjj, Sithis, and Padomay. El is the unbeginning and unending Void, i.e. nothing. The Altmer sequence also has the wrong entity in at number 3. It should be Lorkhan, not Auri-El/Akatosh. Lorkhan is also known as the Missing God, the Void Ghost, and is also nothing. <remains silent> is nothing, and is also the true name of God, it refers both to El and Lorkhan. The correct A better sequence is...

Psjjjj, Anu, Anu-Padomay, <remains silent>.

The truth that the Altmer seek to deny is, that in common with every other mortal on Tamriel, Lorkhan is their proto-type and their individual destiny is that they must each complete the psijic endeavour to regain union with the Psjjjj (and not regress to anuic divinity like they would prefer).

That is how I understand it. Others will disagree, and I respect that. It's not their fault.

Having multiple names for the same entity is designed to confuse. Defining a god as nothing is designed to confuse further. It's a deliberate feature of TES Lore.

Sinlar

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Define "different". It's just semantics. An irrelevant distraction. A dead end. Forget it.

There are two important things that really are important about the sequence Anu -> Anui-El -> Auri-El.

Firstly, it is the beginning of the Altmer family tree. It is their claim for direct descent from the Divines - Anu is the first, Anu begets Anui-El, Anui-El begets Auri-El, and so on, in a direct line of descent to every Altmer on Tamriel. I'm sure they all have it written down at the top of their pedigree.

Secondly, it is wrong, a lie. Nothing is missing from the beginning of the sequence (that's a genuine TES Lore Dad joke right there). What I mean is that it's a zero-based array - 0,1,2,3. While Anu is the first, El is the zeroth (the nothing at the start of everything). El is also known as the Psjjjj, Sithis, and Padomay. El is the unbeginning and unending Void, i.e. nothing. The Altmer sequence also has the wrong entity in at number 3. It should be Lorkhan, not Auri-El/Akatosh. Lorkhan is also known as the Missing God, the Void Ghost, and is also nothing. <remains silent> is nothing, and is also the true name of God, it refers both to El and Lorkhan. The correct A better sequence is...

Psjjjj, Anu, Anu-Padomay, <remains silent>.

The truth that the Altmer seek to deny is, that in common with every other mortal on Tamriel, Lorkhan is their proto-type and their individual destiny is that they must each complete the psijic endeavour to regain union with the Psjjjj (and not regress to anuic divinity like they would prefer).

That is how I understand it. Others will disagree, and I respect that. It's not their fault.

Having multiple names for the same entity is designed to confuse. Defining a god as nothing is designed to confuse further. It's a deliberate feature of TES Lore.

A mental construct of the hierarchal reflection of consciousness from source to void and back would be a more succinct summation. If you start with the premise that all is mind on a macrocosmic level.

Nomadic_Atmoran

Anu is a primordial entity that with Padomay kickstarted creation. They are the reason the gods or spirits exist. Anu and Padomay are and aren't present in this universe. The souls of these entities became Anui-El and Sithis. Anui-El is rarely spoken about outside of Altmer culture. In fact I cant think of any other writings where I have seen that name. According to Aldmer lore Auri-El is in fact the spirt of Anui-El which is also the spirit of Anu.


As for Auri-El and Akatosh. They are the same god but also not. The best way I have seen this explained is that they are different shards of the same god. Because these two are gods of different cultures they have come to represent both similar and different things to these people. And because of this they are in a way their own entities now.

It is true that they are not exactly interchangeable. But there is an argument to be made that Auri-El and Akatosh, as far as shards go, are rather similar and parallel each other.


The way I conceptualize it is that somewhere in the universe on some metaphysical level these entities exist. And that new versions of them are created as mortals form new beliefs in these entities. These new versions then take on their unique personalities separate of whatever version of them already exists based on those mortals beliefs. And through these beliefs and prayer these new versions are empowered.

Don't ask me why we really don't see this with the Daedra. Its also quite possible that these "shards" is all nonsense and that the new version is just a lesser spirit assuming the role that mortals assign their new deity.

RaddlemanNumber7

Sinlar wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Define "different". It's just semantics. An irrelevant distraction. A dead end. Forget it.

There are two important things that really are important about the sequence Anu -> Anui-El -> Auri-El.

Firstly, it is the beginning of the Altmer family tree. It is their claim for direct descent from the Divines - Anu is the first, Anu begets Anui-El, Anui-El begets Auri-El, and so on, in a direct line of descent to every Altmer on Tamriel. I'm sure they all have it written down at the top of their pedigree.

Secondly, it is wrong, a lie. Nothing is missing from the beginning of the sequence (that's a genuine TES Lore Dad joke right there). What I mean is that it's a zero-based array - 0,1,2,3. While Anu is the first, El is the zeroth (the nothing at the start of everything). El is also known as the Psjjjj, Sithis, and Padomay. El is the unbeginning and unending Void, i.e. nothing. The Altmer sequence also has the wrong entity in at number 3. It should be Lorkhan, not Auri-El/Akatosh. Lorkhan is also known as the Missing God, the Void Ghost, and is also nothing. <remains silent> is nothing, and is also the true name of God, it refers both to El and Lorkhan. The correct A better sequence is...

Psjjjj, Anu, Anu-Padomay, <remains silent>.

The truth that the Altmer seek to deny is, that in common with every other mortal on Tamriel, Lorkhan is their proto-type and their individual destiny is that they must each complete the psijic endeavour to regain union with the Psjjjj (and not regress to anuic divinity like they would prefer).

That is how I understand it. Others will disagree, and I respect that. It's not their fault.

Having multiple names for the same entity is designed to confuse. Defining a god as nothing is designed to confuse further. It's a deliberate feature of TES Lore.

A mental construct of the hierarchal reflection of consciousness from source to void and back would be a more succinct summation. If you start with the premise that all is mind on a macrocosmic level.

Yes. That's just the sort of reply I'd expect the Sapiarch of Recondite Locution to make

Sinlar

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Sinlar wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Define "different". It's just semantics. An irrelevant distraction. A dead end. Forget it.

There are two important things that really are important about the sequence Anu -> Anui-El -> Auri-El.

Firstly, it is the beginning of the Altmer family tree. It is their claim for direct descent from the Divines - Anu is the first, Anu begets Anui-El, Anui-El begets Auri-El, and so on, in a direct line of descent to every Altmer on Tamriel. I'm sure they all have it written down at the top of their pedigree.

Secondly, it is wrong, a lie. Nothing is missing from the beginning of the sequence (that's a genuine TES Lore Dad joke right there). What I mean is that it's a zero-based array - 0,1,2,3. While Anu is the first, El is the zeroth (the nothing at the start of everything). El is also known as the Psjjjj, Sithis, and Padomay. El is the unbeginning and unending Void, i.e. nothing. The Altmer sequence also has the wrong entity in at number 3. It should be Lorkhan, not Auri-El/Akatosh. Lorkhan is also known as the Missing God, the Void Ghost, and is also nothing. <remains silent> is nothing, and is also the true name of God, it refers both to El and Lorkhan. The correct A better sequence is...

Psjjjj, Anu, Anu-Padomay, <remains silent>.

The truth that the Altmer seek to deny is, that in common with every other mortal on Tamriel, Lorkhan is their proto-type and their individual destiny is that they must each complete the psijic endeavour to regain union with the Psjjjj (and not regress to anuic divinity like they would prefer).

That is how I understand it. Others will disagree, and I respect that. It's not their fault.

Having multiple names for the same entity is designed to confuse. Defining a god as nothing is designed to confuse further. It's a deliberate feature of TES Lore.

A mental construct of the hierarchal reflection of consciousness from source to void and back would be a more succinct summation. If you start with the premise that all is mind on a macrocosmic level.

Yes. That's just the sort of reply I'd expect the Sapiarch of Recondite Locution to make

*Quickly hides plaque with the logo of the College of Sapiarchs, the words -Do Not Remove-, and still attached mounting bolts behind back*
*Looks around innocently*