Betrayal of Trust

XarOzz

I am a 100% PVP player that only does PVE when forced for items needed for PVP. I purchase 6 month subscriptions for a good chunk of real life money to PVP, not test your game for you. If told 6 months ago that we would be BETA testing the game for the next year(what it seems like its been and will be at least) I would NOT have paid money to do it. I may have done it out of the love of the game if asked but not as a paying customer without compensation. I am an old school Eman PVPER from DAOC, the main reason I bought this game was because Matt Firor impressed me with DAOC and thought he would make sure the PVP in this game was not neglected. Now I am starting to wonder if the magic did come from Mark Jacobs after all(If Camelot Unchained or Ashes of Creation are even halfway decent it will hopefully be the salvation for what PVP players are left here) .

To make it even more a slap in the face; I had to spend several hundred thousand gold and hundreds of transmute crystals to just be able to have gear to do your testing for you. This is right after I spent millions of gold to equip 15 characters in PVP gear and yet now cant use the gear. All 15 of my characters get played regularly. So now I am suppose to spend all that money to re-equip my characters, use the same gear for all, or just not play them(which I paid to be able to do).

I am not a young man any more and my twitch reflexes are not what they use to be but my mind is sharper then ever. To compensate for my degrading reflexes I use my mind to theory craft unique sets that makes up for the difference. I do not use cookie cutter builds but get a lot of my enjoyment from the game by theory-crafting unique sets. Some characters use procs, some do not; most have at least one unique set that none others use. That means at least 15 sets of fully golden out gear(that's a lot of money for a PVPer) I need to replace. I have never played a character in PVP until he is in full gold gear, partly by playing on the underdog realm where I am consistently fighting 2 or 3 vs 1 if not 10 vs 1 partly being that outfitting my guys is part of what I enjoy spending my time doing. I am not a social person in game due to having to deal with employees and tenants all day so no I don't want to join a guild to even the odds(I was one of the GM's of House of Black fire in AC on HG and GM of Redemption and The Wicked in DAOC Hibernia which were big organized PVP guilds on underdog realms and ran with OOZ Order of Zanshin Flux in WoW so some of you probably remember me from back when I still liked people but enjoying my solitude now days)

I fully understand a game this old may need major changes and is a part of evolving but there were so many better ways to do this then the screw the customer approach that was approved(as in it should be costing the company that made the mistakes not the players paying the company).

The first being that since such drastic changes were made, people participating in the test should have received complementary temporary gear that only works during the testing and expires afterwords similar to the PVP mayhem scroll.
2nd a day's subscription credit should have been given for every day of participating in the testing.
3rd thing is a missed opportunity to introduce end game PVP to PVE players that have been unwilling to spend the money to get a full set of tri-glyphed PVP only gear to be able to jump in and try PVP without being at a instant disadvantage or spending the money. Good chance this would have led to expanding the shrinking PVP community with new blood.

All of this I may have even been able to overlook if the testing had done any good at all(other then showing procs and ball groups are ruining the fun of the game for the majority of players to keep a few players happy). I have been very good at figuring out proc sets that compliment each other and the character using them(Magicka Warden with Winterborn, Winter's Respite, 2x Sellistrix with a Malacath band and training necklace was fun with a volcanic rune just in case the procs miss) I am probably one of the people you despise in PVP so mea culpa, I would however 100% give up procs for a competitive environment instead of one where lag stuns decides the outcome of a battle more then skill or gear. I have seen no evidence of any improvement in years though and do not think it is remotely ok to make people keep spending time online to farm new PVP gear from PVE(the Winterborn staff from Maelstrom...OMG was a pain but at least got my flawless title from it so it not that I suck at PVE) that keeps changing when I don't care for PVE. If you want to do away with procs, great but refund the materials and crystals used to make the gear and quit expecting your paying customer to be your chumps or employees.

Btw as I stated earlier I no longer care to be social due to the Hegelian Dialectic the world seems trapped into and made this more for the good of the game not conversation so unless you make a really good point I doubt I will reply or even if you do make a good point for my own blood pressure sake I doubt I come back to read this post unless a dev posts, this is just my post for prosperity of the game and hopefully to make a point to a dev if they even bother actually reading here anymore but feel free to use the thread for your own discussions if you agree with any of my points.


For those that don't know Hegelian Dialectic: A framework for guiding thoughts and actions into conflicts that lead to synthetic solutions which can only be introduced once those being manipulated take a side that will advance the per-determined agenda. Controlled opposition, Problem reaction solution.
I choose not to pick a side and find a lighthouse to tend but still love you all.
Godspeed

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Umm I couldn't get through it all. So are you leaving??
In B4 lock

FrancisCrawford

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Umm I couldn't get through it all. So are you leaving??
In B4 lock

He was carried away by the Owl of Minerva.

“The owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of dusk.” -- Hegel

rumple9

Sounds like Q

Wolfpaw

Well said, agree, & thank you.

I also came to ESO for the PvP ZOS marketed, & at times it has been great.

but...the game/community management has brought me to the conclusion this will be my first & last ZOS/Beth game.

Vevvev

Double AP is active as compensation

MyKillv2.0

I don't know what any of this is about but I agree, I am happy that Deltia is back.

Ackwalan

While most (97.2%) of this on ZOS, there is some blame left for you. You should have known not to gear up all of your characters before testing things out for yourself. That being said. After playing in the <50 campaign and the locked campaign, in large pop locked fights, having the proc disabled had no discernable affect on lag, skills not working and all the other problems that have been in PvP. Ball groups still purge/heal/CC spam then ult dump on solo players, and the people that were easy to kill are still easy to kill just like the people that are hard to kill are still hard to kill. Whatever the problem was or the cancer builds were, it wasn't the proc sets.

volkeswagon

The PVP in this game is pretty unbalanced and buggy to begin with. Probably isn't the best game to play if you strictly like pvp. Rogue Company, Fortnite, The Division or Call of Duty is probably better. But having said that they should offer a free month of ESO plus if they plan on experimenting outside of the test server.

Wikter_Bravo

Another thread about how "incompetent" the dev team is and how it's such a big deal to endure tests to help the game advance. What people like to forget is that there has been different teams working on the game. Most of what OP has said is his own doing, ESO PvP is unique in that the meta changes with patches and to gold out gear especially rings for PvP is not the smartest idea. To ask for a refund of mats because you choose to gold it, is stupid. Some of the decisions made by the team may not have been the smartest, but what if they are trying to eliminate the problems of cyro one by one? Because if you have been around since the beginning, you would know that there were many patches, like putting band aids on a wound. I might be giving them a lot of Faith, but to come on the forums and complain about them won't help at all.

Katahdin

No one is making you regear all of your characters for the 3 week test. ONLY YOU can choose to do that.

Just equip one or two characters for the duration of the test. It was kinda fun trying to come up with something that would work from gear Ive been hoarding and havent had a chance to sort through and decon because of the sticker book.

I came up with some combos that work even if the 5 piece doesn't.
LOL on one character I have a 4 piece, a 3 piece and 3 piece and one each of different monster sets and it worked fine.

A lot of people have been blaming proc sets for the lag. So they had to test it and the only way is to do it on the live server and we all be willing guinea pigs. Thats the only way to do it.

Yea people are still complaining about lag and it does seem to still be a problem.
Experiences vary and I can only speak for what I am experiencing.
There does seem to be some lag in some of the large battles but overall, in my experience it seems to be less so than before.
I get less "seige is busy" issues and I have less bar lag and skill lag than before. Not that it doesnt happen at all but I think it would be unrealistic to think it would have cured everything 100%

The other thing is the non-proc game play seems to be a ton of fun. A lot of people are saying it. You dont get killed by armor any more. Harbinger necros arent a thing any more and they actually die. Yes some enemies are tougher than others but overall I dont think we have the stupidness of what some proc sets do.

renne

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Well said, agree, & thank you.

I also came to ESO for the PvP ZOS marketed, & at times it has been great.

but...the game/community management has brought me to the conclusion this will be my first & last ZOS/Beth game.

It's an MMO, it can literally and easily be that without meaning anything at all.

Athan1

XarOzz wrote: »

The first being that since such drastic changes were made, people participating in the test should have received complementary temporary gear that only works during the testing and expires afterwords similar to the PVP mayhem scroll.
2nd a day's subscription credit should have been given for every day of participating in the testing.
3rd thing is a missed opportunity to introduce end game PVP to PVE players that have been unwilling to spend the money to get a full set of tri-glyphed PVP only gear to be able to jump in and try PVP without being at a instant disadvantage or spending the money. Good chance this would have led to expanding the shrinking PVP community with new blood.

Great points! I fully agree. Tbh though the game is much healthier without toxic procs. Even if it feels like beta-testing atm, it's so much better.

XarOzz wrote: »

I had to spend several hundred thousand gold and hundreds of transmute crystals to just be able to have gear to do your testing for you. This is right after I spent millions of gold to equip 15 characters in PVP gear and yet now cant use the gear.

Legit question, if you only pvp, where does all this money come from?? Asking for a friend...

Anyron

Athan1 wrote: »

XarOzz wrote: »

The first being that since such drastic changes were made, people participating in the test should have received complementary temporary gear that only works during the testing and expires afterwords similar to the PVP mayhem scroll.
2nd a day's subscription credit should have been given for every day of participating in the testing.
3rd thing is a missed opportunity to introduce end game PVP to PVE players that have been unwilling to spend the money to get a full set of tri-glyphed PVP only gear to be able to jump in and try PVP without being at a instant disadvantage or spending the money. Good chance this would have led to expanding the shrinking PVP community with new blood.

Great points! I fully agree. Tbh though the game is much healthier without toxic procs. Even if it feels like beta-testing atm, it's so much better.

XarOzz wrote: »

I had to spend several hundred thousand gold and hundreds of transmute crystals to just be able to have gear to do your testing for you. This is right after I spent millions of gold to equip 15 characters in PVP gear and yet now cant use the gear.

Legit question, if you only pvp, where does all this money come from?? Asking for a friend...

Rings and necks usually.. Gladiators proof or something like that pays well too
Im full PvP and its fine for me, no other farming requied

Araneae6537

While I can understand your frustration, I don’t think one can reasonably expect — and indeed, it may not even be desirable — for the meta and general state of combat in a game to remain static. At least we never have to worry about leveling up gear and once you have a set you have it.

Now the no proc set test currently going on in Cyrodiil seems a more extreme change, but I doubt that, even if it is successful, that set selection would remain as limited as it is now. Surely other sets would be adjusted in how they interact with the server so that there would again be greater variety, but it makes sense to test whether such a theoretical actually works as intended before putting more work and resources into it.

Grianasteri

XarOzz wrote: »

I am a 100% PVP player that only does PVE when forced for items needed for PVP. I purchase 6 month subscriptions for a good chunk of real life money to PVP, not test your game for you. If told 6 months ago that we would be BETA testing the game for the next year(what it seems like its been and will be at least) I would NOT have paid money to do it. I may have done it out of the love of the game if asked but not as a paying customer without compensation. I am an old school Eman PVPER from DAOC, the main reason I bought this game was because Matt Firor impressed me with DAOC and thought he would make sure the PVP in this game was not neglected. Now I am starting to wonder if the magic did come from Mark Jacobs after all(If Camelot Unchained or Ashes of Creation are even halfway decent it will hopefully be the salvation for what PVP players are left here) .

To make it even more a slap in the face; I had to spend several hundred thousand gold and hundreds of transmute crystals to just be able to have gear to do your testing for you. This is right after I spent millions of gold to equip 15 characters in PVP gear and yet now cant use the gear. All 15 of my characters get played regularly. So now I am suppose to spend all that money to re-equip my characters, use the same gear for all, or just not play them(which I paid to be able to do).

I am not a young man any more and my twitch reflexes are not what they use to be but my mind is sharper then ever. To compensate for my degrading reflexes I use my mind to theory craft unique sets that makes up for the difference. I do not use cookie cutter builds but get a lot of my enjoyment from the game by theory-crafting unique sets. Some characters use procs, some do not; most have at least one unique set that none others use. That means at least 15 sets of fully golden out gear(that's a lot of money for a PVPer) I need to replace. I have never played a character in PVP until he is in full gold gear, partly by playing on the underdog realm where I am consistently fighting 2 or 3 vs 1 if not 10 vs 1 partly being that outfitting my guys is part of what I enjoy spending my time doing. I am not a social person in game due to having to deal with employees and tenants all day so no I don't want to join a guild to even the odds(I was one of the GM's of House of Black fire in AC on HG and GM of Redemption and The Wicked in DAOC Hibernia which were big organized PVP guilds on underdog realms and ran with OOZ Order of Zanshin Flux in WoW so some of you probably remember me from back when I still liked people but enjoying my solitude now days)

I fully understand a game this old may need major changes and is a part of evolving but there were so many better ways to do this then the screw the customer approach that was approved(as in it should be costing the company that made the mistakes not the players paying the company).

The first being that since such drastic changes were made, people participating in the test should have received complementary temporary gear that only works during the testing and expires afterwords similar to the PVP mayhem scroll.
2nd a day's subscription credit should have been given for every day of participating in the testing.
3rd thing is a missed opportunity to introduce end game PVP to PVE players that have been unwilling to spend the money to get a full set of tri-glyphed PVP only gear to be able to jump in and try PVP without being at a instant disadvantage or spending the money. Good chance this would have led to expanding the shrinking PVP community with new blood.

All of this I may have even been able to overlook if the testing had done any good at all(other then showing procs and ball groups are ruining the fun of the game for the majority of players to keep a few players happy). I have been very good at figuring out proc sets that compliment each other and the character using them(Magicka Warden with Winterborn, Winter's Respite, 2x Sellistrix with a Malacath band and training necklace was fun with a volcanic rune just in case the procs miss) I am probably one of the people you despise in PVP so mea culpa, I would however 100% give up procs for a competitive environment instead of one where lag stuns decides the outcome of a battle more then skill or gear. I have seen no evidence of any improvement in years though and do not think it is remotely ok to make people keep spending time online to farm new PVP gear from PVE(the Winterborn staff from Maelstrom...OMG was a pain but at least got my flawless title from it so it not that I suck at PVE) that keeps changing when I don't care for PVE. If you want to do away with procs, great but refund the materials and crystals used to make the gear and quit expecting your paying customer to be your chumps or employees.

Btw as I stated earlier I no longer care to be social due to the Hegelian Dialectic the world seems trapped into and made this more for the good of the game not conversation so unless you make a really good point I doubt I will reply or even if you do make a good point for my own blood pressure sake I doubt I come back to read this post unless a dev posts, this is just my post for prosperity of the game and hopefully to make a point to a dev if they even bother actually reading here anymore but feel free to use the thread for your own discussions if you agree with any of my points.


For those that don't know Hegelian Dialectic: A framework for guiding thoughts and actions into conflicts that lead to synthetic solutions which can only be introduced once those being manipulated take a side that will advance the per-determined agenda. Controlled opposition, Problem reaction solution.
I choose not to pick a side and find a lighthouse to tend but still love you all.
Godspeed

@XarOzz

This person gets it ^

One of the most worthwhile ESO forum reads I have had for a long time. Thank you. Will Zos listen? Unlikely

The_Lex

Still getting lag spikes in Grey Host, especially in areas of high load (major keep battles with tons of siege).

That said, I’m having so much fun playing without the procs sets. It feels...pure. I’d take the lag if it meant we didn’t go back to a proc meta.

Larcomar

I sympathise - I'm certainly not at your level but I've got 8 toons and enjoy making them all different. Probably not staggeringly effective, but the beauty of the set system is that you can try all sorts of different builds and most of them can do something right. At the very least it's fun to try and make something different work.

I have to be honest though, you don't really need to regear all of them for these "tests." Or any of them. I'm just sitting them out, taking the chance to play some other games and do some other things. It's actually kind of nice and has made me realise that Ive been spending far too much time playing this game.

If the tests "stick" - and I have a sneaking suspicion Zos is well aware procs aren't causing lag, they've just been nobbled by a hardcore minority who want to get rid of zergs / proc sets / potatoes, and will just announce they like the "behavioural changes" at the end and make it all permanent - then it's a different issue.

I don't though, think that issue is gold mats etc etc That's just in game stuff. And, to be frank, par for the course for MMOs. The more significant issue as far as I can see is that Zos has effectively tried to fix their game by just turning off virtually all of the dlc sets theyve added to it over the last 4 or 5 years. And people actually paid real money for the dlcs.

Put bluntly, they sold people a ton of dlc by stocking it with flashy new sets that of course people had to have to be competitive in pvp with .... And now they've just announced you can't use them anymore. I doubt thats against TOS - those let them do whatever they want - but it's pretty damn dubious.

Sgrug

It is a 3-week test. You did not need to change anything and probably should not have just yet. After the test, all the changes you just made will now need to be made again.

I think you have overreacted quite a bit and your wall of text comes across a bit dramatic, to be honest. This is a game, nothing more.

Jaxious79

Ah yes the new "adding new features = IM JUST BETA TESTING" complaint.

Larcomar

Jaxious79 wrote: »

Ah yes the new "adding new features = IM JUST BETA TESTING" complaint.

Except in this case, they're not adding anything. They're removing stuff. Which maybe should never have been put there. But it feels a little different. If any other game had basically written off 4 years of paid for dlc content, there'd be a riot.

ADarklore

I thought for a second I was reading a post from two years ago when I left ESO... I keep reading in the forums the same complaints, same problems that were still there two years ago. Same complaints of PVP neglect, same complaints of incompetency by devs, same ole, same ole. It truly does appear that NOTHING has changed since I left... very disappointing. I mean, if doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is the definition of insanity... well... it is, what it is.

Jaxious79

Larcomar wrote: »

Jaxious79 wrote: »

Ah yes the new "adding new features = IM JUST BETA TESTING" complaint.

Except in this case, they're not adding anything. They're removing stuff. Which maybe should never have been put there. But it feels a little different. If any other game had basically written off 4 years of paid for dlc content, there'd be a riot.

Thats not true, plus they are not writing off 4 years of paid DLC what are you talking about?

Games have done this, go look at Destiny they put 1/2 their content in a "vault" no riots.

Malkiv

You do realize only Cyrodiil is going through the test? There's still two other PVP game modes - IC and BGs - in which proc sets still work. If you're a pure PVPer, then you're participating in all those other game modes. I know I am, and there's no way I'm taking my Cyro build into the still-active proc meta in IC and BGs. I have one toon I'm testing in Cyro, and the rest are left untouched to run rampant in IC and BGs.

They need to do this test on a large scale, which is why it is on the Live server. Not everyone is able to - or wants to - install the Public Test Server, and right now, the PTS has a different test on it which does not resemble the live servers.

Xen0rm

Well, there are other players payed for subscription too, and among them exist people who surely do not have the same opinion like OP.

Scardan

So the pro sets will start working again after the test, what's the problem? At this time, you can play other games.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Athan1 wrote: »

XarOzz wrote: »

The first being that since such drastic changes were made, people participating in the test should have received complementary temporary gear that only works during the testing and expires afterwords similar to the PVP mayhem scroll.
2nd a day's subscription credit should have been given for every day of participating in the testing.
3rd thing is a missed opportunity to introduce end game PVP to PVE players that have been unwilling to spend the money to get a full set of tri-glyphed PVP only gear to be able to jump in and try PVP without being at a instant disadvantage or spending the money. Good chance this would have led to expanding the shrinking PVP community with new blood.

Great points! I fully agree. Tbh though the game is much healthier without toxic procs. Even if it feels like beta-testing atm, it's so much better.

XarOzz wrote: »

I had to spend several hundred thousand gold and hundreds of transmute crystals to just be able to have gear to do your testing for you. This is right after I spent millions of gold to equip 15 characters in PVP gear and yet now cant use the gear.

Legit question, if you only pvp, where does all this money come from?? Asking for a friend...

Honestly I started thinking the same thing. I PvP some but mainly play the explorer/merchant parts of the game and it would take me months of gathering and grinding, (like 6 or more), to be able to burn through that much gold and mats. Also I can't think of any mostly PvPers having more then 3 or 4 characters that are developed at all, much less in golded out gear.

ZOS_Lunar

Greetings!

As this thread has run its course and is no longer constructive, we are now going to close it. We always encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are respectfully stated when doing so. We would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.