Please keep procs out of PvP even if the test doesn't satisfy!!!

Mariusghost84

Even though ive invested HEAVILY into procsets on my 17 chars, i agree 100% with OP. Procc sets should be removed from this game and i am 100% convinced the game pvp would be a FAR better place than where it is today.

Yamenstein

Athan1 wrote: »

Let's not mix things up... Conditional =/= proc. Conditional is checking if something is a stamina ability. Proc is rolling the die, e.g. 10% to activate an effect.

Tbh is sounds there has been poor coding if they treat "ifelse" conditionals as procs.

I was quite shocked at NMA too tbh...

Anyway, I'd love to see no procs in Cyrodiil for good.

Happy to have no proc sets in certain environments. But classes will have to be looked at again. Everyone is screaming keep proc sets turned off. But I have no doubt that it will just mean Magicka classes get shafted even more so. Especially the classes that don't have enough damage and have to rely on continuous healing to stay alive.

Tbh the fact that everyone is loving these test conditions just makes me realise how many people play stamina classes in PvP AND don't care about the Magicka counterpart.

Massacre_Wurm

Yamenstein wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Let's not mix things up... Conditional =/= proc. Conditional is checking if something is a stamina ability. Proc is rolling the die, e.g. 10% to activate an effect.

Tbh is sounds there has been poor coding if they treat "ifelse" conditionals as procs.

I was quite shocked at NMA too tbh...

Anyway, I'd love to see no procs in Cyrodiil for good.

Happy to have no proc sets in certain environments. But classes will have to be looked at again. Everyone is screaming keep proc sets turned off. But I have no doubt that it will just mean Magicka classes get shafted even more so. Especially the classes that don't have enough damage and have to rely on continuous healing to stay alive.

Tbh the fact that everyone is loving these test conditions just makes me realise how many people play stamina classes in PvP AND don't care about the Magicka counterpart.

"Dont have enought damage " ? What ? Proc meta is the reason that some classes " dont have enough damage" because its a burst or bust.

starkerealm

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

Even though ive invested HEAVILY into procsets on my 17 chars, i agree 100% with OP. Procc sets should be removed from this game and i am 100% convinced the game pvp would be a FAR better place than where it is today.

I wouldn't go that far. There are some legitimately interesting proc sets in the game. Especially the ability-altering weapons. Modal gear (such as Ancient Dragonguard or Pariah) are really interesting, and have the potential to add something unique to the game. That said, the vast majority of the direct damage proc sets, do feel really uninspired.

Jierdanit

Gilvoth wrote: »

no thank you.
i enjoy and need the sets i use.

according to the list i was told specifically they are considered proc sets.


Hawk's Eye

(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Reduces the cost and increases the damage of your Bow abilities by 6%.

and

Mighty Chudan

(1 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(2 items) Gain Major Ward and Major Resolve at all times, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5280.
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health

has zero negative effect on anything (hurts none) and ive used those sets for years.

just cause "you" and a small (Very Small) group of people dont like proc sets is no reason to destroy other people freedom.

Chudan is not "needed" on anything as every class has its own source of Major Resolve available, so if anything it is a nice set to have so you get a free bar slot.

Seeing as you seem to be a sniper i have no idea why you would want a free skill slot anyways.

And also, I have no idea about what people you know in the game, but not a SINGLE person i know has ever said that they like proc sets, while quite a lot of them are doing way less PvP than they used to because of the current proc meta.

So please stop saying that only a "very small" amount of players doesnt like proc sets, just because you wanna keep your carry.

Sgrug

Nyladreas wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

If it weren't for performance (Ravenwatch, PC-EU) being one of the worst I've seen in a long time yesterday, I think I would've really enjoyed PvP during the first day of tests. Eliminating procsets definitely didn't do anything about performance, but the quality of PvP in terms of what factors determines the outcome of a fight was much healthier.

That's strange...my performance was flawless on the same server yesterday o.O

That is because some people are saying things not entirely accurate to push their agenda. Lag has gone down, to what degree is debatable but it has gone down. Also, those OP builds no longer make players unkillable or stupid op death machines, the lie was put to player skill, all can see now that OP PROC builds were just that OP and cancer.

Notice the significant majority even on the forums crediting with removing PROC builds as making the game more fun, this was also the theme in zone chat PvP yesterday.

TwinLamps

why would ppl that pvp buy new content at all if not for broken sets that give them an edge over others.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Hope not
The fun would be remouved

Jierdanit

Sgrug wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

If it weren't for performance (Ravenwatch, PC-EU) being one of the worst I've seen in a long time yesterday, I think I would've really enjoyed PvP during the first day of tests. Eliminating procsets definitely didn't do anything about performance, but the quality of PvP in terms of what factors determines the outcome of a fight was much healthier.

That's strange...my performance was flawless on the same server yesterday o.O

That is because some people are saying things not entirely accurate to push their agenda. Lag has gone down, to what degree is debatable but it has gone down. Also, those OP builds no longer make players unkillable or stupid op death machines, the lie was put to player skill, all can see now that OP PROC builds were just that OP and cancer.

Notice the significant majority even on the forums crediting with removing PROC builds as making the game more fun, this was also the theme in zone chat PvP yesterday.

It might also just be, because different people are actually experiencing different things

I tried playing PvP yesterday.
In Blackreach, the least populated campaign and still had about 2 seconds delay on nearly everything i did, as soon as i got into a fight.

Still i am not saying that procs should come back to cyro.
I absolutely do not like proc sets and would love it if they never return to cyro, but well i still had quite some amounts of lag even with the tests

Sgrug

Jierdanit wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

If it weren't for performance (Ravenwatch, PC-EU) being one of the worst I've seen in a long time yesterday, I think I would've really enjoyed PvP during the first day of tests. Eliminating procsets definitely didn't do anything about performance, but the quality of PvP in terms of what factors determines the outcome of a fight was much healthier.

That's strange...my performance was flawless on the same server yesterday o.O

That is because some people are saying things not entirely accurate to push their agenda. Lag has gone down, to what degree is debatable but it has gone down. Also, those OP builds no longer make players unkillable or stupid op death machines, the lie was put to player skill, all can see now that OP PROC builds were just that OP and cancer.

Notice the significant majority even on the forums crediting with removing PROC builds as making the game more fun, this was also the theme in zone chat PvP yesterday.

It might also just be, because different people are actually experiencing different things

I tried playing PvP yesterday.
In Blackreach, the least populated campaign and still had about 2 seconds delay on nearly everything i did, as soon as i got into a fight.

Still i am not saying that procs should come back to cyro.
I absolutely do not like proc sets and would love it if they never return to cyro, but well i still had quite some amounts of lag even with the tests

And I had very little lag on much more populated servers. Might it be your connection/location/ ISP etc?

ZOS_Volpe

Hello,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

wolfbone

I dont agree.

Joy_Division

TwinLamps wrote: »

why would ppl that pvp buy new content at all if not for broken sets that give them an edge over others.

Because the content is fun to play on its own merits?

Nyladreas

wolfbone wrote: »

I dont agree.

You must either be a magcro or insane. Why not?

robpr

No crimson, bombers or harbingers indeed feels great and you clearly cannot 1 vs >3 anymore, but performance is the same. Maybe less strain on server but lag is still there. The test wont go anywhere.

AyaDark

They just want remove proc sets to easely kill those who have lags.

Becouse lugs like hell.

May be in time like 3-00am gmt+3 to 14-00 no lags but the same was with proc sets.

All other time is the same lags and hard to press skills.

Goregrinder

10 chars.

Jierdanit

Sgrug wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

If it weren't for performance (Ravenwatch, PC-EU) being one of the worst I've seen in a long time yesterday, I think I would've really enjoyed PvP during the first day of tests. Eliminating procsets definitely didn't do anything about performance, but the quality of PvP in terms of what factors determines the outcome of a fight was much healthier.

That's strange...my performance was flawless on the same server yesterday o.O

That is because some people are saying things not entirely accurate to push their agenda. Lag has gone down, to what degree is debatable but it has gone down. Also, those OP builds no longer make players unkillable or stupid op death machines, the lie was put to player skill, all can see now that OP PROC builds were just that OP and cancer.

Notice the significant majority even on the forums crediting with removing PROC builds as making the game more fun, this was also the theme in zone chat PvP yesterday.

It might also just be, because different people are actually experiencing different things

I tried playing PvP yesterday.
In Blackreach, the least populated campaign and still had about 2 seconds delay on nearly everything i did, as soon as i got into a fight.

Still i am not saying that procs should come back to cyro.
I absolutely do not like proc sets and would love it if they never return to cyro, but well i still had quite some amounts of lag even with the tests

And I had very little lag on much more populated servers. Might it be your connection/location/ ISP etc?

It certainly might be.

That still doesnt change that people who say that they still have lag in cyro dont just do that, because they want proc sets to stay, but maybe also because theyre legitimately lagging.

Goregrinder

robpr wrote: »

No crimson, bombers or harbingers indeed feels great and you clearly cannot 1 vs >3 anymore, but performance is the same. Maybe less strain on server but lag is still there. The test wont go anywhere.

They just need to introduce a direct counter to proc sets really. Poisons or potions or something that could apply a status effect to a player that would temporarily disable the proc from firing off. That way players who want to be carried by ZOS can still wear all the proc sets they want, and the players who know how to land burst combos, can create windows of opportunity to burst a proc set player down knowing crimson won't proc for the next 4-8 seconds. Just like how dots are directly countered by purge, snares are directly countered by forward momentum/RAT/etc....they just need to bring a direct counter to proc sets, then everyone can play how they want.

noobfury

Having started the game in 2015 I can tell you there have always been performance problems in Cyrodiil. This is common knowledge.

Proc sets have also been in the game since that time . I started out as a new player using the Death's Wind set which was something I could craft as a low level player.

There is a counter and a solution to everything in this game if you are willing to put in the work. Proc sets are one of the few avenues that still allow for a certain level of creativity outside the box of cookie cutter builds.

Rather than create any more limitations that would contribute to a bland or linear approach, it would be more productive to add or increase the number of counters to what already exists. This is just a matter of balancing.

By asking that they be removed completely from PVP is asking to remove one of the core mechanics that has always existed in the game. By increasing the number of additional set options this would eliminate the scenario's that are causing the issue.

Otherwise the next level of progression will be that PVP is terrible because certain stat only sets are OP and need to be removed. Where does it really end ? When everyone is pew pewing with light attacks ?

Sgrug

noobfury wrote: »

Having started the game in 2015 I can tell you there have always been performance problems in Cyrodiil. This is common knowledge.

Proc sets have also been in the game since that time . I started out as a new player using the Death's Wind set which was something I could craft as a low level player.

There is a counter and a solution to everything in this game if you are willing to put in the work. Proc sets are one of the few avenues that still allow for a certain level of creativity outside the box of cookie cutter builds.

Rather than create any more limitations that would contribute to a bland or linear approach, it would be more productive to add or increase the number of counters to what already exists. This is just a matter of balancing.

By asking that they be removed completely from PVP is asking to remove one of the core mechanics that has always existed in the game. By increasing the number of additional set options this would eliminate the scenario's that are causing the issue.

Otherwise the next level of progression will be that PVP is terrible because certain stat only sets are OP and need to be removed. Where does it really end ? When everyone is pew pewing with light attacks ?

Sorry to disagree and I do strongly. Gear in general and PROCS specifically have been the largest source of power creep in ESO. Way more than CP ever was and the Dev's stopped all CP growth for 2 years. PROC gear needs a fast and hard intervention and at this point just disabling it all until they can figure out how to rebalance and scale it correctly looks like one of the better options.

This current test has shown just how stupidly powerful PROC gear is in PvP and honestly it is not much different in PvE. PROC gear is way out of hand and needed correction long before CP ever did. Now it is so far gone as to be ridiculous, unkillable tanks with massive damage output, 1 shot wonders with a PROC assault the demoralizes any average PvP player they encounter, this is as unhealthy as it gets in an MMO.

Larcomar

[/quote]

Sorry to disagree and I do strongly. Gear in general and PROCS specifically have been the largest source of power creep in ESO. Way more than CP ever was and the Dev's stopped all CP growth for 2 years. PROC gear needs a fast and hard intervention and at this point just disabling it all until they can figure out how to rebalance and scale it correctly looks like one of the better options.

This current test has shown just how stupidly powerful PROC gear is in PvP and honestly it is not much different in PvE. PROC gear is way out of hand and needed correction long before CP ever did. Now it is so far gone as to be ridiculous, unkillable tanks with massive damage output, 1 shot wonders with a PROC assault the demoralizes any average PvP player they encounter, this is as unhealthy as it gets in an MMO.[/quote]

Errr which proc sets are being used in high end pve? They're generally seen as pretty underpowered. I've not seen a lot of buidls employing them. Are you thinking about monster helms or conditional sets?

From what Ive seen, procs work in pvp because you can do some creative things with them. And, frankly, because, theyre a counter to lag. PVE, it's all false gods and mother sorrow etc etc.

Sahidom

Maybe the magNightblade will get some love then 😁

spartaxoxo

Gilvoth wrote: »

Pattceht wrote: »

Can the guys responding so negatively relax a little.

disagreeing, is not negativity.

Accusing someone of wanting to destroy other's freedom because they "don't like" your set is negativity.

Gilvoth wrote: »

just cause "you" and a small (Very Small) group of people dont like proc sets is no reason to destroy other people freedom.

People just want a game that function properly. This test is to measure the impact these calculations have on performance. I'm sure this test won't stick as sweeping as it did when it made to live and sets that give some bonus at all time will be treated as different to ones that proc buffs/debuffs/damage.

xaraan

I'd rather just seem things balanced.

Removing procs totally would be boring build wise.

And frankly, no pvp is still laggy. We had to leave greyhost in the morning and play in blackreach because of lag and skills not firing off, weapon swap not working, etc.

This also doesn't fix the heavy armor/stam build meta. If you are in heavy, you should not be able to do significant damage period. That's part of the problem with procs, combining them with heavy. IF they added a maim to heavy armor it would solve a lot of problems.

spartaxoxo

regime211 wrote: »

JerrysKid wrote: »

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

JerrysKid wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

no thank you.
i enjoy and need the sets i use.

according to the list i was told specifically they are considered proc sets.


Hawk's Eye

(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Reduces the cost and increases the damage of your Bow abilities by 6%.

and

Mighty Chudan

(1 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(2 items) Gain Major Ward and Major Resolve at all times, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5280.
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health

has zero negative effect on anything (hurts none) and ive used those sets for years.

just cause "you" and a small (Very Small) group of people dont like proc sets is no reason to destroy other people freedom.

You must have missed the results of the many polls on the subject. People that dislike them in PVP far outweigh those that do.

There is no prove of either, saying otherwise is absurd.

Its estimated that ESO has around 15 million players.

Let's say only half are active, a forum poll were not all of them have a voice is no indicator of the larger groups want.

[Snip].

Do some research into sample polling and sampling error. [Snip].

Sorry he is right, in order for that poll to be 100% valid a vote must be done with Every single person casting their vote.

His statement is not at all how polling works. You can tell with a very high confidence rating of as much as 99% what the larger group thinks on a topic using a random sample that is smaller than the whole. It's the entire basis of polling

Larcomar

[/quote]

His statement is not at all how polling works. You can tell with a very high confidence rating of as much as 99% what the larger group thinks on a topic using a random sample that is smaller than the whole. It's the entire basis of polling[/quote]

God are we still having the polling conversation. I lost track of that a while back. But can we at least agree that all a poll on this forum's going to tell you is what people who post on this forum think. And all a poll in the pvp forum tells you is what the people who hang out there think. If I've learned anything reading stuff, it's that the posting population is utterly unrepresentative of the people who play the game.

Sgrug

Larcomar wrote: »

Sorry to disagree and I do strongly. Gear in general and PROCS specifically have been the largest source of power creep in ESO. Way more than CP ever was and the Dev's stopped all CP growth for 2 years. PROC gear needs a fast and hard intervention and at this point just disabling it all until they can figure out how to rebalance and scale it correctly looks like one of the better options.

This current test has shown just how stupidly powerful PROC gear is in PvP and honestly it is not much different in PvE. PROC gear is way out of hand and needed correction long before CP ever did. Now it is so far gone as to be ridiculous, unkillable tanks with massive damage output, 1 shot wonders with a PROC assault the demoralizes any average PvP player they encounter, this is as unhealthy as it gets in an MMO.

Errr which proc sets are being used in high end pve? They're generally seen as pretty underpowered. I've not seen a lot of buidls employing them. Are you thinking about monster helms or conditional sets?

From what Ive seen, procs work in pvp because you can do some creative things with them. And, frankly, because, theyre a counter to lag. PVE, it's all false gods and mother sorrow etc etc.

Yes, never liked PROCS in any gear to start with so I will admit I am a bit biased on this.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

There is no difference on PC EU with proc sets or not. It's not the issue or it's just that tests are bogus.
Prime time is still unplayable.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I like no proc PVP for the most part. It doesn't really affect my build all that much anyways. I simply had to drop a mythic item and add a one piece monster set. I will say a few things:

-Primetime performance was pretty awful last night on PC/NA GrayHost. I quit after my third crash, and the lag was BAD. It was pretty darn good until about 6:30 est.

-ZOS needs a basic science class. I hate that they reintroduced cross healing for the test. Control your darn variables. Was performance bad at primetime because cross healing or did proc sets have no effect. We cant know based on this test. This is not meant as a comment on the merits of the changes of healing, simply how you conduct a basic science experiment.

-The list of what sets count as a proc is going to need some work. Basically anything that is remotely conditional counts as a proc. Most of these sets arent the issue, at least from a gameplay standpoint. They are going to need to figure out how to allow a lot more sets, or we are going to have like 3 builds that people run.