TY ZOS
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milllaurie✭✭✭✭So you're just happy that only few sets of 500 now work?
I am happy because it is about PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER now, not about who has a chapter with OP items unlocked.
Or not about who can cheese the most HP recov with proc damage.
PVP feels amazing RN. It will change during the next few days, people are still feeling it out. But it is about skill now, that's what matters to me.9 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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As long as they're also on a class that's actually worth playing with stat sets. IE, not Magicka Necromancer.milllaurie wrote: »Thanks zos. I love how the better player wins now.
For that matter, I think the Stamina-Magicka gap widens more (in Stamina's favor) without proc sets being a thing, with a possible exception for Mag Sorc.2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm glad to hear your enjoying it. I can't jump in until later during primetime. So I hope performance will be good too!0 -
milllaurie✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »I'm glad to hear your enjoying it. I can't jump in until later during primetime. So I hope performance will be good too!
Actually a lot of people are on right now. Literally zerging at Alessia bridge, chalman milegate and ash milegate. No server hiccups so far. But I guess ball grps are not on yet. I will be running mine later I think.0 -
Pauls✭✭✭✭✭
And before test players with and without proc sets plus skill killed players who use procs though. Not a big change except now only small percent of all sets currently work.milllaurie wrote: »
I am happy because it is about PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER now, not about who has a chapter with OP items unlocked.
Or not about who can cheese the most HP recov with proc damage.
PVP feels amazing RN. It will change during the next few days, people are still feeling it out. But it is about skill now, that's what matters to me.0 -
BisDasBlutGefriert✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone know if you still get the stat bonuses on the sets up to the proc?
Like on defiler set.
(2 items) adds 123 weapon damage
(3 items) adds 794 weapon crit
(4 items) adds 794 weapon crit
(5 items) summoned hunger proc.
Would I still get set bonuses 2-4? Just not the fifth?~There’s a positive in every negative. Sometimes the positive is harder to find than other times, but there is ALWAYS one there~0 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭BisDasBlutGefriert wrote: »Does anyone know if you still get the stat bonuses on the sets up to the proc?
Like on defiler set.
(2 items) adds 123 weapon damage
(3 items) adds 794 weapon crit
(4 items) adds 794 weapon crit
(5 items) summoned hunger proc.
Would I still get set bonuses 2-4? Just not the fifth?
2 3 and 4 will work.2 -
SshadowSscale✭✭✭✭✭And before test players with and without proc sets plus skill killed players who use procs though. Not a big change except now only small percent of all sets currently work.
someone seems to be struggling in no proc cyrodil.... in anycase if this becomes permanent all cyrodil sets will have to be reworked to work in cyrodil also sets like new moon and seducer will most likely also get a change even if it's just a behind the scenes type hange so that they can also work in cyrodil.... and only proc I realisticly see zos allowing if this goes permanent is maybe... maybe monster sets..... which I personally would not mind but some might disagree on that..... in anycase there will be more sets made available if this becomes permanent.... so don't worry about it2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SshadowSscale wrote: »
someone seems to be struggling in no proc cyrodil.... in anycase if this becomes permanent all cyrodil sets will have to be reworked to work in cyrodil also sets like new moon and seducer will most likely also get a change even if it's just a behind the scenes type hange so that they can also work in cyrodil.... and only proc I realisticly see zos allowing if this goes permanent is maybe... maybe monster sets..... which I personally would not mind but some might disagree on that..... in anycase there will be more sets made available if this becomes permanent.... so don't worry about it
I love sets like briarheart, seventh, clever alchemist etc... I hope they do away with all free damage/healing proc sets and rework the stat granting sets.
It seems weird to me that these calculate as much as they do. Why does seducer or new moon have to calculate per cast? Why can't it just increase the cost of your skills whilst it is equipped. Does being a Breton cause server checks on every cast? It seems odd to me that they operate in what seems like an inefficient way.1 -
Unified_Gaming✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »
I love sets like briarheart, seventh, clever alchemist etc... I hope they do away with all free damage/healing proc sets and rework the stat granting sets.
It seems weird to me that these calculate as much as they do. Why does seducer or new moon have to calculate per cast? Why can't it just increase the cost of your skills whilst it is equipped. Does being a Breton cause server checks on every cast? It seems odd to me that they operate in what seems like an inefficient way.
It has to check if it is equipped constantly to apply the thing. It can't apply a permanent so what it does is apply a pseudo permanent buff that checks constantly so that when unequipped the buff and debuff is removed. The only solution would be to make it add a flat x damage but add a flat x to all skills.Unified Gaming - creating a shared and Unified Gaming community.
For some of the best and most up to date PVP builds around or useful tips and tricks from an experienced player for PvP and PvE, then check out my channel and consider subscribing if you want to see regular ESO content.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCorbta-fAHKJcxJ6ExbtPwg/0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Unified_Gaming wrote: »
It has to check if it is equipped constantly to apply the thing. It can't apply a permanent so what it does is apply a pseudo permanent buff that checks constantly so that when unequipped the buff and debuff is removed. The only solution would be to make it add a flat x damage but add a flat x to all skills.
The solution you mentioned is why I am confused why it isn't a thing already. The flat value is known upon equipping. I.e. a skill that costs 3k costs 300 less when wearing seducer. This shouldn't change, but more likely because of the confusing way things stack in this game it becomes a problem. For instance the skills that reduce the cost of your next attack should need to do a calculation based on its current cost, but shouldn't alter the value you already have from your set. Because of the way things calculate it does and the server does a lot more work as a result.
I understand why they do this, it creates diminishing returns on stacking by the nature of the maths behind it. Partly I feel sets, skills etc... Could be more efficient if the efficiency of the calculation was improved.
For example look how 2 sources of mitigation are calculated:
Mitigation #1 = 5%
Mitigation #2 = 31%
Combined = (1 - (1 - 5/100) * (1 - 31/100) ) * 100 = 34.4%
Imagine being a necro wearing buffer of the swift, casting your armor buff and spirit mender. Despite one of those 3 sources being permanent and the other 2 lasting over 15 secs it is most likely checking your mitigation every second instead of recalculating upon cast. Now imagine someone hits you with breach and vulnerability. It is now calculating every source of damage and your mitigation at the same time.
I know nothing about this stuff, but I do understand that someone can answer a sentence faster than a paragraph.0 -
Theignson✭✭✭✭✭The real test is whether the ball groups will still lag stun us. I am guessing they will. They have players each with 24 buffs including 6 or 7 radiating regens. This won't change without proc sets.
They will still be doing their tired old "Proxi, 3,2, 1" and 12 radiant regens and 12 ultis and fears. If this no longer lag stuns anyone within 40m I'll be overjoyed.
Can anyone report if ball groups are still lagging everyone out when Zerodil is poplocked?
3 GOs, a Warlord, and bunches of prefects etc-- all classes...I've wasted a lot of time in PVP2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is there a definitive list as to what is considered a proc? Is it obvious that something wont work, or is it a bit of a guessing game? Havent been able to jump in yet, but I am excited. I typically run Stat builds, but sometimes I do run a monster set or arena weapon.
Am I correct that just about all 2 piece monster sets are pretty useless, what about defensive sets like bloodspawn or EG?
Do arena weapons work that add something to an ability? Looking a things like the masters bow or Vateshran destro?
Are stat procs included like warriors fury?
Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 15, 2021 5:39PM0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Is there a definitive list as to what is considered a proc? Is it obvious that something wont work, or is it a bit of a guessing game? Havent been able to jump in yet, but I am excited. I typically run Stat builds, but sometimes I do run a monster set or arena weapon.
Am I correct that just about all 2 piece monster sets are pretty useless, what about defensive sets like bloodspawn or EG?
Do arena weapons work that add something to an ability? Looking a things like the masters bow or Vateshran destro?
Are stat procs included like warriors fury?
None of that stuff will work, this is Brian's stuff that does work:
The full list of Sets which are not affected by this test are as follows:
Amber Plasm
Armor of the Trainee
Beekeeper’s Gear
Crafty Alfiq
Draugr Hulk
Endurance
Fortified Brass
Grace of the Ancients
Hunding’s Rage
Impregnable Armor
Law of Julianos
Leviathan
Mother’s Sorrow
Plague Doctor
Shacklebreaker
Spinner’s Garments
Spriggan’s Thorns
Willpower Agility1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »
None of that stuff will work, this is Brian's stuff that does work:
The full list of Sets which are not affected by this test are as follows:
Amber Plasm
Armor of the Trainee
Beekeeper’s Gear
Crafty Alfiq
Draugr Hulk
Endurance
Fortified Brass
Grace of the Ancients
Hunding’s Rage
Impregnable Armor
Law of Julianos
Leviathan
Mother’s Sorrow
Plague Doctor
Shacklebreaker
Spinner’s Garments
Spriggan’s Thorns
Willpower Agility
That's what I figured, but appreciate the clarification. Looks like its going to be Crafty, Trainee, Grace of the Ancients, and few one piece monster sets. Can't wait!
Does the ring of the hunt still work? That thing has ruined me. I feel like I am playing in mud without it. LOL.
Also, that is a short list. ZOS is going to have some work to do, because it seems like this change is overwhelmingly popular, but its a pretty massive issue if 75+% of the sets dont work in PVP.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 15, 2021 6:10PM1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
That's what I figured, but appreciate the clarification. Looks like its going to be Crafty, Trainee, Grace of the Ancients, and few one piece monster sets. Can't wait!
Does the ring of the hunt still work? That thing has ruined me. I feel like I am playing in mud without it. LOL.
No mythics I'm afraid 😔1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And before test players with and without proc sets plus skill killed players who use procs though. Not a big change except now only small percent of all sets currently work.
Yeah right, but also not really. I didn't have to change a single thing about my build and now I see people who used to steamroll me on tanky proc setups drop like flies. I wonder why. 🤔🤔
I'm willing to bet that lots of condition based sets were even secretly overperforming without anyone's knowledge. Aka unintentionally exploiting. The gap just seems way too big with some people I've fought today lmao.
Hope procs stay off forever, even if it means only a handful of sets will be PvP viable (how it always should've been). Yeah it sucks the theory crafting part out, part which was extremely fun, but damn I just can't thank ZOS enough!
Edited by Nyladreas on February 15, 2021 11:28PM2 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah right, but also not really. I didn't have to change a single thing about my build and now I see people who used to steamroll me on tanky proc setups drop like flies. I wonder why. 🤔🤔
I'm willing to bet that lots of condition based sets were even secretly overperforming without anyone's knowledge. Aka unintentionally exploiting. The gap just seems way too big with some people I've fought today lmao.
I wonder if some people are still wearing their proc sets and don't know about the test?2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
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I wonder if some people are still wearing their proc sets and don't know about the test?
I was thinking the same thing tonight😂 it was a lot of fun regardless!0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The real test is whether the ball groups will still lag stun us. I am guessing they will. They have players each with 24 buffs including 6 or 7 radiating regens. This won't change without proc sets.
They will still be doing their tired old "Proxi, 3,2, 1" and 12 radiant regens and 12 ultis and fears. If this no longer lag stuns anyone within 40m I'll be overjoyed.
Can anyone report if ball groups are still lagging everyone out when Zerodil is poplocked?
Yeah, you can still tell when one is approaching before you even see it. Everything starts desynching and slowing down. Same thing with the hammer.0 -
milllaurie✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »
I was thinking the same thing tonight😂 it was a lot of fun regardless!
Yes they are. A stamcro tried to combo be with his vate 2h but hit me like a wet noodle since he was in heavy. Then I turned on the offensive with my sharpened spriggans maul and he was like "Jumpy jumpy" but not too far from me so he could heal up with his crimson.
Let's say it was not his favourite fight. xDEdited by milllaurie on February 16, 2021 6:38AM0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭milllaurie wrote: »
Yes they are. A stamcro tried to combo be with his vate 2h but hit me like a wet noodle since he was in heavy. Then I turned on the offensive with my sharpened spriggans maul and he was like "Jumpy jumpy" but not too far from me so he could heal up with his crimson.
Let's say it was not his favourite fight. xD
wow..... that... is just sad lol.0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭milllaurie wrote: »
Yes they are. A stamcro tried to combo be with his vate 2h but hit me like a wet noodle since he was in heavy. Then I turned on the offensive with my sharpened spriggans maul and he was like "Jumpy jumpy" but not too far from me so he could heal up with his crimson.
Let's say it was not his favourite fight. xD
I got the impression many players last night were unaware of the change 😂Edited by relentless_turnip on February 16, 2021 11:42AM0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »
I got the impression many players last night were unaware of the change 😂
This is what it takes to make me a good pvp'er,
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Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And before test players with and without proc sets plus skill killed players who use procs though. Not a big change except now only small percent of all sets currently work.
Well skilled players could of course abuse procs better than non-skilled players. But "skilled players can just use procs too!" isn't really a strong argument because it doesn't actually address the problem it presents in PVP: ZOS doing around 30%-40% of the damage for you.
The argument against procs is that if a skilled player and non-skilled player both running proc builds are fighting each other, and each is dealing an additional 5-6k ZOS damage per light attack, this doesn't really benefit the skilled player. Both players are essentially putting their chips into ZOS's bowl, and just waiting around for ZOS to kill one of them first. That benefits non-skilled players more than skilled players.
But if the damage both players deal to each other ONLY comes from properly comboing abilities together to burst the other one down, without ZOS holding your hand, it benefits the skilled player more because the lower skilled player won't do their burst combo correctly.
Another way to think of it is driving a car. If both players are racing cars against each other, and they're both driving automatics, well the higher skilled driver will probably win the race. But the car is shifting gears for them, so the lower skilled driver has less to worry about and is at least given some kind of chance to compete with the higher skilled player. But if their cars are manual transmission where they have to shift gears themselves, then the lower skilled driver isn't going to know how to properly down shift around turns, or how to double-foot the gas and break, or when to skip gears on a shift, so this would benefit the skilled driver even more than automatic transmissions.
TLDR: The problem is giving players training wheels, and ZOS dealing damage for them, rather than making the player have to deal 100% of their damage to earn a kill themselves. And it's not so much that proc sets exist and are a thing, it's more that there is no direct counter for procs. There is no way to stop crimson from healing a player to keep them alive. Even health recovery has a hard counter in the form of major defile, and the game gives players many ways to apply major defile on each other. Procs need some form of hard counter that either disables proc chance temporarily, or reduces proc effectiveness for x=amount of seconds every so often in a fight.0 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭milllaurie wrote: »
I am happy because it is about PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER now, not about who has a chapter with OP items unlocked.
Or not about who can cheese the most HP recov with proc damage.
PVP feels amazing RN. It will change during the next few days, people are still feeling it out. But it is about skill now, that's what matters to me.
Let's ask ZOS to have only stamwarden with subterranean assault dswing, dswing, dawnbreaker and Executioner. No other classes and everybody running the same set up..
I don't understand people play a non brain build that hit two button all the time thinking that the are skilled players.0
