LGBT+ guilds

coop500

Wow... it shocks me how much this thread exploded just from someone asking for a friendly guild lol.

ThorianB

coop500 wrote: »

Wow... it shocks me how much this thread exploded just from someone asking for a friendly guild lol.

Some heterosexual people truly don't get it and that is why it exploded. Others are trying to explain it to them. I know they might think" Well straight people don't advertise their sexual preferences so why does LBGTQ+" because from the outside looking in, if you don't dig a little under the surface that is what it looks like. " Look i am gay and you can't do anything about it so i am going to rub it in your face!"

But that is not all why it is brought up publicly. If you(general use) take time to understand the why instead of being judgy then you will learn there are very good reasons for it. It is to avoid abusive and hostile situations.

I didn't get it for a long time until i encountered a few people who i got sick of their "free use" of derogatory comments directed at everyone. Imagine someone that uses "bro" all the time in conversation. Then replace that with a derogatory word. Also some people who say " That's gay" to show their disapproval. It's annoying to most straight people, it has to make LBGTQ+ cringe to hear stuff like that.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have edited or removed multiple posts, mostly for Offensive Content. Hate Speech or Offensive Content is not tolerated on the forums as we wish to create an environment where anyone is welcome. Our rules and the Code of Conduct expressly forbid Hate Speech.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here and the Code of Conduct here.

ZeroDPS

Can someone tell me connection between this game and my sexual orientation??? What the hell we are talking about here, who cares you are LGBTor not... its just a game, apply for guilds and play and have fun...

Synthwavius

ZeroDPS wrote: »

Can someone tell me connection between this game and my sexual orientation??? What the hell we are talking about here, who cares you are LGBTor not... its just a game, apply for guilds and play and have fun...

I'll give you an example. I recently witnessed a huge drama on Twitter. Somebody leaked what one big streamer/youtuber posts on his discord. I wouldn't want to join any guild just to see racist/homophobic memes flying around. I'm pretty thick skinned but I don't play ESO to rage and fight. Games are supposed to be fun and an escape from the grey reality.

ectoplasmicninja

ZeroDPS wrote: »

who cares you are LGBTor not...

That's the problem - nobody should, but some people do. A lot of folks will naturally discuss their personal lives with their guildmates as they become friends by spending time together, but even if you don't, it's very easy to say "brb, gf calling". A normal group will just take this for what it is, but there are people out there who have very strong negative reactions to any indication of homosexuality. Or someone says they're female but then hop on voice for a trial and have a heavily testosterone-influenced voice and drama ensues. Worse yet if you want to be friends and talk about what you did over the weekend or your plans for Valentine's Day or let them know you're getting married. If nobody cared, people wouldn't specifically be looking for places where they can be open about their identity without risk of backlash.

edges_endgame

ZeroDPS wrote: »

Can someone tell me connection between this game and my sexual orientation??? What the hell we are talking about here, who cares you are LGBTor not... its just a game, apply for guilds and play and have fun...

Another example:
"you are sooo gay" (after beating someone in Pvp.
"stop being so gay, man"

All these were meant as insults. And I simply do not want to see this or put up with it. I am a straight female btw and it annoys me. Imagine being actually gay and getting that thrown in your face so darn casually... Nah... I am not OK with that.

Jaxious79

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

PEOPLE cmon!

We are playing this game because we like it, we enjoy it (except lag, fix it ZOS)!

I am a Retired Navy pilot who loves pvp AND pve, Im over 40 (holy crap when did that happen??) and a Christian who lives in the South.

If I created a thread asking for a Veteran guild or over 40 guild or a Christian guild I seriously doubt I would catch flak. Yet LGBT? this topic is cause for flak ?? Its 2021 cmon lets game and allow people to find like minded individuals. It makes the game more enjoyable for people to play with people they have the same outlook/experiences with things in real life.

I agree with you 100%. The only thing different between your case and this case though is the MODS would have throw your post in the guild section of the forums within 5 post. This one they leave in general for some reason.

Serenez

I am still shocked at why this subject is still debated. First off the original poster was looking for a guild that matched their needs. Why this is any business of another to judge still continues to elude me. People have a right to play in whatever guild they so choose that fits their needs.

The question arose as to why someone would want to belong to a guild that was specific to their needs. I can understand if someone is questioning this out of curiosity and a willingness to learn and 'listen and hear' what people are saying. Posters have tried to explain this logically. The thread has value if people truly wish to learn 'why and really hear' what people are saying and 'try' to understand.

To simply join this thread to bash, object, and diminish the possible reasons as to 'why' someone would wish to join a specific guild is simply wrong and completely justifies the need for a person to join a guild that suits their needs. To avoid such backlash, objection, judgement.

At the end of the day people just want to be who they are and if they can find a guild that makes them happy so they can play a game in peace - what on earth is wrong with that?

Some play a game to log in and log out without making friends or lasting connections and that is their choice as to how they play. Others do the exact opposite. Others wish to build friendships and bond with people. There are many gaming communities that are like this. Why wouldn't a person want to join a guild that accepts them for who they are. Yes there are other guilds out there that may also accept them, however it is a gamble to find that guild. How many guilds do they have to join and quit to get exactly what they are looking for? Joining a guild specific to their needs eliminates the cycle of joining and quitting.

Who joins which guild should not be up for debate. People should be able to join whatever guild suits their needs without backlash, objections or judgements.

wolfbone

I think some people here are being a bit rude. I've been called some questionable things in game, just cos of my sexuality/ seen others being bullied for their sexuality. it's a very real problem.

wolfbone

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

But I still don't understand how anyone would even know what your preference is unless you make a point of announcing it. And why would anyone feel the need to do that?

Most mmo gamers know someone or several someones who have met and formed real life relationships with someone they met in game. Also, most people prefer to associate with like-minded individuals, and will do what is necessary to surround themselves with welcoming people.

Obviously, not everyone is looking to make relationships..... but why would you not want to hang out with people who think the same way as you do?

Are you saying straight people can't be like minded with LGBTQ people? I have more than one friend from that community because our friendships are based on having similar values and interests... not what our sexual preferences are.

nobody is saying that. but In my experience, I've ahd a fair few straight people who the moment they decided they didnt like me/someone else, they started using gay as a insult and harrasing people.

Lugaldu

This whole discussion is going nowhere. All can only accept that there are different types of people. Those who approach everything in the world with an open mind and tolerance and those who for whatever reasons (social, religious etc.) cannot or do not want to deviate from their own point of view. In the end, everyone has the opportunity to choose what kind of people they would like to surround themselves with.

coop500

Serenez wrote: »

I am still shocked at why this subject is still debated. First off the original poster was looking for a guild that matched their needs. Why this is any business of another to judge still continues to elude me. People have a right to play in whatever guild they so choose that fits their needs.

The question arose as to why someone would want to belong to a guild that was specific to their needs. I can understand if someone is questioning this out of curiosity and a willingness to learn and 'listen and hear' what people are saying. Posters have tried to explain this logically. The thread has value if people truly wish to learn 'why and really hear' what people are saying and 'try' to understand.

To simply join this thread to bash, object, and diminish the possible reasons as to 'why' someone would wish to join a specific guild is simply wrong and completely justifies the need for a person to join a guild that suits their needs. To avoid such backlash, objection, judgement.

At the end of the day people just want to be who they are and if they can find a guild that makes them happy so they can play a game in peace - what on earth is wrong with that?

Some play a game to log in and log out without making friends or lasting connections and that is their choice as to how they play. Others do the exact opposite. Others wish to build friendships and bond with people. There are many gaming communities that are like this. Why wouldn't a person want to join a guild that accepts them for who they are. Yes there are other guilds out there that may also accept them, however it is a gamble to find that guild. How many guilds do they have to join and quit to get exactly what they are looking for? Joining a guild specific to their needs eliminates the cycle of joining and quitting.

Who joins which guild should not be up for debate. People should be able to join whatever guild suits their needs without backlash, objections or judgements.

I have nothing to really say to this except *HAVE AN INSIGHTFUL*
This was hella well written and I am shocked that this thread exploded like it did.

DTStormfox

First, this thread is in the wrong forums. It should be placed here.

Second, this thread seems to have derailed a lot.

Third, there is no certain generation of people or type of people or a category of people who express themselves 'offensive' against LGBT+. There are some individuals that do. It is not just to generalize your own experience to condemn an entire group of players. If you see language that you think is harassment (e.g. offensive language) in chat, you report it with a screenshot. The point, however, is that it is extremely difficult to determine what language is offensive and what isn't because you taking offence to certain language does not mean that the language actually is offensive. What language is considered offensive is found in the TOS and Code of Conduct.

Disclaimer: I am not claiming that you cannot feel offended by certain language but ZOS sets the boundaries and has to set these boundaries because otherwise, moderation is impossible.

Serenez

coop500 wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

I am still shocked at why this subject is still debated. First off the original poster was looking for a guild that matched their needs. Why this is any business of another to judge still continues to elude me. People have a right to play in whatever guild they so choose that fits their needs.

The question arose as to why someone would want to belong to a guild that was specific to their needs. I can understand if someone is questioning this out of curiosity and a willingness to learn and 'listen and hear' what people are saying. Posters have tried to explain this logically. The thread has value if people truly wish to learn 'why and really hear' what people are saying and 'try' to understand.

To simply join this thread to bash, object, and diminish the possible reasons as to 'why' someone would wish to join a specific guild is simply wrong and completely justifies the need for a person to join a guild that suits their needs. To avoid such backlash, objection, judgement.

At the end of the day people just want to be who they are and if they can find a guild that makes them happy so they can play a game in peace - what on earth is wrong with that?

Some play a game to log in and log out without making friends or lasting connections and that is their choice as to how they play. Others do the exact opposite. Others wish to build friendships and bond with people. There are many gaming communities that are like this. Why wouldn't a person want to join a guild that accepts them for who they are. Yes there are other guilds out there that may also accept them, however it is a gamble to find that guild. How many guilds do they have to join and quit to get exactly what they are looking for? Joining a guild specific to their needs eliminates the cycle of joining and quitting.

Who joins which guild should not be up for debate. People should be able to join whatever guild suits their needs without backlash, objections or judgements.

I have nothing to really say to this except *HAVE AN INSIGHTFUL*
This was hella well written and I am shocked that this thread exploded like it did.

Thanks At the moment this thread is clearly derailing. The OP appears to have moved on. This bashing, baiting, objections are the very reason why there are guilds that help shield people from this.

Titansteele

edges_endgame wrote: »

ZeroDPS wrote: »

Can someone tell me connection between this game and my sexual orientation??? What the hell we are talking about here, who cares you are LGBTor not... its just a game, apply for guilds and play and have fun...

Another example:
"you are sooo gay" (after beating someone in Pvp.
"stop being so gay, man"

All these were meant as insults. And I simply do not want to see this or put up with it. I am a straight female btw and it annoys me. Imagine being actually gay and getting that thrown in your face so darn casually... Nah... I am not OK with that.

Where I agree in principle 50% of the core of our guild could be considered LBGT+, where some may look at that and say "well done" I do not. It was not our aim, our aim was too surround ourselves with likeminded PEOPLE who enjoy shared interests. I would not consider us to be LBGT+ "friendly" as I only know the above statistic because over a long period of time we have got involved in each others lives as friends and you start to learn more about peoples personal lives. We do not ask people questions that would lead to this becoming a topic unless it is initiated by individuals.

Our discord server is 100% not suitable for work and examples such as above do happen BUT the people guilty of comments like that are the people who are LGBT+ which always amuses me as the only people feeling awkward around are the exact opposite group of people than I would expect or social commentary would lead us to believe. Yes this happens within a group of friends and I do recognise the fact that it will change the overall dynamic but it is very important to always understand context and intent.

Tenthirty2

Kojran wrote: »

I know this has been asked (countless times) but the threads seem old and or the guilds not around or the mail doesnt recognise the player when i try to send them an ingame email. What LGBT+ guilds are there? I am on PC, using the EU server but playing from Australia

I hope you are able to find a guild on the EU site OP.

I know this may not help you as you state you are on EU servers, but I wanted to mention if anyone is on the NA server and looking for a LGBTQIA+ friendly guild check out: Alphabet Mafia.
New social guild that I just joined and they are growing fast

Goregrinder

Sephyr wrote: »

Germakochi wrote: »

Y'all are OBLIVIOUS, like you have actually no idea. Most of the people do homophobic jokes all the time and it effects us mentally. You could never imagine the amount of "jokes" we have to endure because otherwise we are "too sensitive" or a snowflake. They just asked for a guild and you feel the unstoppable need to dump all your ideas about how LGBTQIA+ people should behave and how they should feel. Can't you see?
Also have you ever thought they might want to talk about topics related to LGBTQIA+ because it's literally a sub-culture at this point or they want to connect with other people in that way? It is not rocket science and we don't need to be berated by other people on what we should look for, how we should behave and how we should percieve the world.

It really isn't rocket science and people who don't understand don't need to, nor is it any of their business. The OP asked for an LGBTQ+ guild and people feel the need to say it's dividing the community somehow and it's eugh. I've been looking for a decent match on PC-NA for a while now and having been through some of the big ones, I chose to look for something smaller. People can go "Oh it's dividing the community" all they want. No one said that LGBTQ+ joins ONLY those guilds. However for people who want to run content with likeminded individuals - it's hard. You've got transfolk who aren't comfortable with their speaking voice. You've got various speech markers and other idiosyncrasies (like passing comments about having to go talk to their same-sex partner/spouse) that comes up more frequently than people realize. To make matters worse, people use that as a determining factor on whether or not we're 'worth running' in progression content. Having been there myself? It sucks.

I think what people are pointing out is do you think the principle of "Only <Insert Group of People> are allowed in this guild, everyone else will not be included" is ok or not ok. If the goal is to promote tolerance of other people, their individuality, and to promote the inclusiveness of all humans, to then say "Oh but YOU can't join because you're not like us.." sort of undermines that goal. You basically become the thing you sought to destroy.

SilverBride

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

A lot of folks will naturally discuss their personal lives with their guildmates as they become friends by spending time together, but even if you don't, it's very easy to say "brb, gf calling". A normal group will just take this for what it is, but there are people out there who have very strong negative reactions to any indication of homosexuality. Or someone says they're female but then hop on voice for a trial and have a heavily testosterone-influenced voice and drama ensues. Worse yet if you want to be friends and talk about what you did over the weekend or your plans for Valentine's Day or let them know you're getting married. If nobody cared, people wouldn't specifically be looking for places where they can be open about their identity without risk of backlash.

Part of the problem is giving too much information to the entire guild. If you are going afk all you have to say is "afk" or "brb". They don't need to know why.

I keep all my guild chat pretty generic. I only discuss personal facts with people I've become friends with and trust, and not in guild chat. I don't expect to become that kind of friend with the entire guild.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

After removing a handful of posts, we must remind everyone that all should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sephyr

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Germakochi wrote: »

Y'all are OBLIVIOUS, like you have actually no idea. Most of the people do homophobic jokes all the time and it effects us mentally. You could never imagine the amount of "jokes" we have to endure because otherwise we are "too sensitive" or a snowflake. They just asked for a guild and you feel the unstoppable need to dump all your ideas about how LGBTQIA+ people should behave and how they should feel. Can't you see?
Also have you ever thought they might want to talk about topics related to LGBTQIA+ because it's literally a sub-culture at this point or they want to connect with other people in that way? It is not rocket science and we don't need to be berated by other people on what we should look for, how we should behave and how we should percieve the world.

It really isn't rocket science and people who don't understand don't need to, nor is it any of their business. The OP asked for an LGBTQ+ guild and people feel the need to say it's dividing the community somehow and it's eugh. I've been looking for a decent match on PC-NA for a while now and having been through some of the big ones, I chose to look for something smaller. People can go "Oh it's dividing the community" all they want. No one said that LGBTQ+ joins ONLY those guilds. However for people who want to run content with likeminded individuals - it's hard. You've got transfolk who aren't comfortable with their speaking voice. You've got various speech markers and other idiosyncrasies (like passing comments about having to go talk to their same-sex partner/spouse) that comes up more frequently than people realize. To make matters worse, people use that as a determining factor on whether or not we're 'worth running' in progression content. Having been there myself? It sucks.

I think what people are pointing out is do you think the principle of "Only <Insert Group of People> are allowed in this guild, everyone else will not be included" is ok or not ok. If the goal is to promote tolerance of other people, their individuality, and to promote the inclusiveness of all humans, to then say "Oh but YOU can't join because you're not like us.." sort of undermines that goal. You basically become the thing you sought to destroy.

As someone who's LGBTQ+ myself, I've never seen someone who's an ally be rejected outside of those guilds unless they're being homophobic, transphobic, racist, and are generally harmful TO us.

So if you fall under that category? Yeah - you don't belong in those guilds. Period. No one anywhere said that people who aren't LGBTQ+ can't join them. It is literally still no one else's business whether or not LGBTQ+ guilds should exist or not. If you, or others, think that it divides the community then what about the many types of gameplay out there? I'll answer that rhetorical question for you - it doesn't divide any community anymore than the other guild types out there (PvE, PvP, RP, Trading, Housing, Crafting, so on and so forth) and anyone with the common sense to understand that? Will.

SilverBride

Sephyr wrote: »

As someone who's LGBTQ+ myself, I've never seen someone who's an ally be rejected outside of those guilds unless they're being homophobic, transphobic, racist, and are generally harmful TO us.

So if you fall under that category? Yeah - you don't belong in those guilds.

If you are that kind of person you don't belong in any guild. No guild has to tolerate toxic members, and most don't.

Sephyr wrote: »

If you, or others, think that it divides the community then what about the many types of gameplay out there? I'll answer that rhetorical question for you - it doesn't divide any community anymore than the other guild types out there (PvE, PvP, RP, Trading, Housing, Crafting, so one and so forth) and anyone with the common sense to understand that? Will.

There is a huge difference between guilds created to focus on different aspects of the game and guilds formed to separate people into categories. That is what I don't agree with.

Sephyr

SilverBride wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

As someone who's LGBTQ+ myself, I've never seen someone who's an ally be rejected outside of those guilds unless they're being homophobic, transphobic, racist, and are generally harmful TO us.

So if you fall under that category? Yeah - you don't belong in those guilds.

If you are that kind of person you don't belong in any guild. No guild has to tolerate toxic members, and most don't.

Sephyr wrote: »

If you, or others, think that it divides the community then what about the many types of gameplay out there? I'll answer that rhetorical question for you - it doesn't divide any community anymore than the other guild types out there (PvE, PvP, RP, Trading, Housing, Crafting, so one and so forth) and anyone with the common sense to understand that? Will.

There is a huge difference between guilds created to focus on different aspects of the game and guilds formed to separate people into categories. That is what I don't agree with.

Then don't join them. Simple. It's really none of your business and off topic from what the OP was wanting.

DUTCH_REAPER

I can NOT believe this is still goin????? lol OMG am I in the twilight zone?

The OP asked for a LGBT guild. What on earth is the problem people????????????? Either you know of one or you don't.

The people saying they don't understand blah blah News flash, your understanding is not needed. What is needed is to remember to treat people like you wanted to be treated and respected. It is 2021 holy shitz why is this an issue?

I ma like 2 seconds from making threads that say looking for all male, all female, or all veterans, or Star Wars fans, or Black players only, or Christian gamers etc.. Because this thread has friggin derailed and its pathetic that so many of you "grown ups" act like middle schoolers.

Auztinito

OP, I hope you find a guild. I'd offer up some suggestion but I don't know many. If this was FFXIV, I could point you to a few, though. I hope you find a friendly guild that welcomes you no question.


Now, I feel the need to respond to a few things in this thread.

Mass Effect LE camera changes - This is not one person or community demanded. It's something that Bioware wanted to change themselves. However, the scenes they're changing camera angles to take almost no work to do and on top it all, looked weird and made no sense back then nor does it now. You don't like it? Guess what. Get the *** over it. Go be a whiney *** somewhere else.

"What does being LGBTQIA+ have to do with the game" - What does you mother have to do with it? What does an NPC's ass have to do with the game? Applying the same logic, you *** should shut the *** up. This isn't a topic of debate. This was a topic that 2 types of answers but one of them is kind of useless. First answer being a no. Second being a yes with a few suggestions. Instead you folks get all bent because the LGBT came up. Go to some other community if you want to *** about LGBTQIA+ folks or keep it yourselves.

"My Freedom of Speech" - Do you not know what FoS is? Freedom of Speech allows you to be a bigot, yes. (It shouldn't. Hate speech does not equal free speech.) Now, Freedom of Speech protects you from the gov to do anything but it does not mean you won't experience consequences for it. If a company, employer, or small group of folks see you being a bigot of any sort, they still have the right to cut off contact with you whether it's a ban from a game, firing you, or just cutting you out of their circle. They can do that and it still doesn't "Infringe on your right". What do you think cancel culture is? It's consequences of you say/do coming straight at you. Then again, you folks think it's unreasonable to hold someone accountable.

"You need to educate them" - I hate this phrase so damn much. We're in an age where you can practically google/youtube on how to fix you vehicle or build complex machines. This is the thing, nobody stopped educating folks, it's just so damn tiring to do so for those that still refuse to be a decent human being. It's not our job to educate you because you frankly drank from the "gamergate" kool-aid and decide to double down on your ignorance instead of learn from their consequences.

There is more I can say but I'll respond if I feel the need to.

Goregrinder

Sephyr wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Germakochi wrote: »

Y'all are OBLIVIOUS, like you have actually no idea. Most of the people do homophobic jokes all the time and it effects us mentally. You could never imagine the amount of "jokes" we have to endure because otherwise we are "too sensitive" or a snowflake. They just asked for a guild and you feel the unstoppable need to dump all your ideas about how LGBTQIA+ people should behave and how they should feel. Can't you see?
Also have you ever thought they might want to talk about topics related to LGBTQIA+ because it's literally a sub-culture at this point or they want to connect with other people in that way? It is not rocket science and we don't need to be berated by other people on what we should look for, how we should behave and how we should percieve the world.

It really isn't rocket science and people who don't understand don't need to, nor is it any of their business. The OP asked for an LGBTQ+ guild and people feel the need to say it's dividing the community somehow and it's eugh. I've been looking for a decent match on PC-NA for a while now and having been through some of the big ones, I chose to look for something smaller. People can go "Oh it's dividing the community" all they want. No one said that LGBTQ+ joins ONLY those guilds. However for people who want to run content with likeminded individuals - it's hard. You've got transfolk who aren't comfortable with their speaking voice. You've got various speech markers and other idiosyncrasies (like passing comments about having to go talk to their same-sex partner/spouse) that comes up more frequently than people realize. To make matters worse, people use that as a determining factor on whether or not we're 'worth running' in progression content. Having been there myself? It sucks.

I think what people are pointing out is do you think the principle of "Only <Insert Group of People> are allowed in this guild, everyone else will not be included" is ok or not ok. If the goal is to promote tolerance of other people, their individuality, and to promote the inclusiveness of all humans, to then say "Oh but YOU can't join because you're not like us.." sort of undermines that goal. You basically become the thing you sought to destroy.

As someone who's LGBTQ+ myself, I've never seen someone who's an ally be rejected outside of those guilds unless they're being homophobic, transphobic, racist, and are generally harmful TO us.

So if you fall under that category? Yeah - you don't belong in those guilds. Period. No one anywhere said that people who aren't LGBTQ+ can't join them. It is literally still no one else's business whether or not LGBTQ+ guilds should exist or not. If you, or others, think that it divides the community then what about the many types of gameplay out there? I'll answer that rhetorical question for you - it doesn't divide any community anymore than the other guild types out there (PvE, PvP, RP, Trading, Housing, Crafting, so on and so forth) and anyone with the common sense to understand that? Will.

Anyone who is overtly being a Richard to other people usually gets kicked, that's with almost every guild though. That's pretty standard operating procedure for any guild. The good news is, almost all guilds are friendly towards everywhere, so OP won't have any issues finding 5 different guilds to join.

Sephyr

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Germakochi wrote: »

Y'all are OBLIVIOUS, like you have actually no idea. Most of the people do homophobic jokes all the time and it effects us mentally. You could never imagine the amount of "jokes" we have to endure because otherwise we are "too sensitive" or a snowflake. They just asked for a guild and you feel the unstoppable need to dump all your ideas about how LGBTQIA+ people should behave and how they should feel. Can't you see?
Also have you ever thought they might want to talk about topics related to LGBTQIA+ because it's literally a sub-culture at this point or they want to connect with other people in that way? It is not rocket science and we don't need to be berated by other people on what we should look for, how we should behave and how we should percieve the world.

It really isn't rocket science and people who don't understand don't need to, nor is it any of their business. The OP asked for an LGBTQ+ guild and people feel the need to say it's dividing the community somehow and it's eugh. I've been looking for a decent match on PC-NA for a while now and having been through some of the big ones, I chose to look for something smaller. People can go "Oh it's dividing the community" all they want. No one said that LGBTQ+ joins ONLY those guilds. However for people who want to run content with likeminded individuals - it's hard. You've got transfolk who aren't comfortable with their speaking voice. You've got various speech markers and other idiosyncrasies (like passing comments about having to go talk to their same-sex partner/spouse) that comes up more frequently than people realize. To make matters worse, people use that as a determining factor on whether or not we're 'worth running' in progression content. Having been there myself? It sucks.

I think what people are pointing out is do you think the principle of "Only <Insert Group of People> are allowed in this guild, everyone else will not be included" is ok or not ok. If the goal is to promote tolerance of other people, their individuality, and to promote the inclusiveness of all humans, to then say "Oh but YOU can't join because you're not like us.." sort of undermines that goal. You basically become the thing you sought to destroy.

As someone who's LGBTQ+ myself, I've never seen someone who's an ally be rejected outside of those guilds unless they're being homophobic, transphobic, racist, and are generally harmful TO us.

So if you fall under that category? Yeah - you don't belong in those guilds. Period. No one anywhere said that people who aren't LGBTQ+ can't join them. It is literally still no one else's business whether or not LGBTQ+ guilds should exist or not. If you, or others, think that it divides the community then what about the many types of gameplay out there? I'll answer that rhetorical question for you - it doesn't divide any community anymore than the other guild types out there (PvE, PvP, RP, Trading, Housing, Crafting, so on and so forth) and anyone with the common sense to understand that? Will.

Anyone who is overtly being a Richard to other people usually gets kicked, that's with almost every guild though. That's pretty standard operating procedure for any guild. The good news is, almost all guilds are friendly towards everywhere, so OP won't have any issues finding 5 different guilds to join.

That hasn't been my experience, but okay? The point is - this shouldn't be a debate on whether or not they should exist. People should be plugging their LGBTQ+ guilds.

SilverBride

I was about to say more but I don't want to stir the pot. So I'll just say treat each other with respect, and leave it at that.

Goregrinder

Sephyr wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Germakochi wrote: »

Y'all are OBLIVIOUS, like you have actually no idea. Most of the people do homophobic jokes all the time and it effects us mentally. You could never imagine the amount of "jokes" we have to endure because otherwise we are "too sensitive" or a snowflake. They just asked for a guild and you feel the unstoppable need to dump all your ideas about how LGBTQIA+ people should behave and how they should feel. Can't you see?
Also have you ever thought they might want to talk about topics related to LGBTQIA+ because it's literally a sub-culture at this point or they want to connect with other people in that way? It is not rocket science and we don't need to be berated by other people on what we should look for, how we should behave and how we should percieve the world.

It really isn't rocket science and people who don't understand don't need to, nor is it any of their business. The OP asked for an LGBTQ+ guild and people feel the need to say it's dividing the community somehow and it's eugh. I've been looking for a decent match on PC-NA for a while now and having been through some of the big ones, I chose to look for something smaller. People can go "Oh it's dividing the community" all they want. No one said that LGBTQ+ joins ONLY those guilds. However for people who want to run content with likeminded individuals - it's hard. You've got transfolk who aren't comfortable with their speaking voice. You've got various speech markers and other idiosyncrasies (like passing comments about having to go talk to their same-sex partner/spouse) that comes up more frequently than people realize. To make matters worse, people use that as a determining factor on whether or not we're 'worth running' in progression content. Having been there myself? It sucks.

I think what people are pointing out is do you think the principle of "Only <Insert Group of People> are allowed in this guild, everyone else will not be included" is ok or not ok. If the goal is to promote tolerance of other people, their individuality, and to promote the inclusiveness of all humans, to then say "Oh but YOU can't join because you're not like us.." sort of undermines that goal. You basically become the thing you sought to destroy.

As someone who's LGBTQ+ myself, I've never seen someone who's an ally be rejected outside of those guilds unless they're being homophobic, transphobic, racist, and are generally harmful TO us.

So if you fall under that category? Yeah - you don't belong in those guilds. Period. No one anywhere said that people who aren't LGBTQ+ can't join them. It is literally still no one else's business whether or not LGBTQ+ guilds should exist or not. If you, or others, think that it divides the community then what about the many types of gameplay out there? I'll answer that rhetorical question for you - it doesn't divide any community anymore than the other guild types out there (PvE, PvP, RP, Trading, Housing, Crafting, so on and so forth) and anyone with the common sense to understand that? Will.

Anyone who is overtly being a Richard to other people usually gets kicked, that's with almost every guild though. That's pretty standard operating procedure for any guild. The good news is, almost all guilds are friendly towards everywhere, so OP won't have any issues finding 5 different guilds to join.

That hasn't been my experience, but okay? The point is - this shouldn't be a debate on whether or not they should exist. People should be plugging their LGBTQ+ guilds.

Every single MMORPG guild I was in, and every FPS clan I was in had people kicked for being Richards. That's been my experience, but I've always been playing FPS games online since 1999, and MMORPG's since 2004, so I've seen a thing or two. And I agree with you that guilds should be plugging whatever they want to about their guild. I think as long as they leave discrimination for anything other than behavior out, I don't think anyone is going to have a problem.

Sephyr

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Germakochi wrote: »

Y'all are OBLIVIOUS, like you have actually no idea. Most of the people do homophobic jokes all the time and it effects us mentally. You could never imagine the amount of "jokes" we have to endure because otherwise we are "too sensitive" or a snowflake. They just asked for a guild and you feel the unstoppable need to dump all your ideas about how LGBTQIA+ people should behave and how they should feel. Can't you see?
Also have you ever thought they might want to talk about topics related to LGBTQIA+ because it's literally a sub-culture at this point or they want to connect with other people in that way? It is not rocket science and we don't need to be berated by other people on what we should look for, how we should behave and how we should percieve the world.

It really isn't rocket science and people who don't understand don't need to, nor is it any of their business. The OP asked for an LGBTQ+ guild and people feel the need to say it's dividing the community somehow and it's eugh. I've been looking for a decent match on PC-NA for a while now and having been through some of the big ones, I chose to look for something smaller. People can go "Oh it's dividing the community" all they want. No one said that LGBTQ+ joins ONLY those guilds. However for people who want to run content with likeminded individuals - it's hard. You've got transfolk who aren't comfortable with their speaking voice. You've got various speech markers and other idiosyncrasies (like passing comments about having to go talk to their same-sex partner/spouse) that comes up more frequently than people realize. To make matters worse, people use that as a determining factor on whether or not we're 'worth running' in progression content. Having been there myself? It sucks.

I think what people are pointing out is do you think the principle of "Only <Insert Group of People> are allowed in this guild, everyone else will not be included" is ok or not ok. If the goal is to promote tolerance of other people, their individuality, and to promote the inclusiveness of all humans, to then say "Oh but YOU can't join because you're not like us.." sort of undermines that goal. You basically become the thing you sought to destroy.

As someone who's LGBTQ+ myself, I've never seen someone who's an ally be rejected outside of those guilds unless they're being homophobic, transphobic, racist, and are generally harmful TO us.

So if you fall under that category? Yeah - you don't belong in those guilds. Period. No one anywhere said that people who aren't LGBTQ+ can't join them. It is literally still no one else's business whether or not LGBTQ+ guilds should exist or not. If you, or others, think that it divides the community then what about the many types of gameplay out there? I'll answer that rhetorical question for you - it doesn't divide any community anymore than the other guild types out there (PvE, PvP, RP, Trading, Housing, Crafting, so on and so forth) and anyone with the common sense to understand that? Will.

Anyone who is overtly being a Richard to other people usually gets kicked, that's with almost every guild though. That's pretty standard operating procedure for any guild. The good news is, almost all guilds are friendly towards everywhere, so OP won't have any issues finding 5 different guilds to join.

That hasn't been my experience, but okay? The point is - this shouldn't be a debate on whether or not they should exist. People should be plugging their LGBTQ+ guilds.

Every single MMORPG guild I was in, and every FPS clan I was in had people kicked for being Richards. That's been my experience, but I've always been playing FPS games online since 1999, and MMORPG's since 2004, so I've seen a thing or two. And I agree with you that guilds should be plugging whatever they want to about their guild. I think as long as they leave discrimination for anything other than behavior out, I don't think anyone is going to have a problem.

That's cool and all, but in the end it still diminishes the fact of why these guilds are necessary. I've been around since the era of MUDS. I've seen some things too that completely go against your experience as well as experiencing some pretty harrowing stuff as of late from GMs and officers of my own in ESO. Reporting doesn't do anything and is just as useful as wishful thinking.