Is a vVH mechanics overhaul something you'd like to see?

Bat

I'm writing this as someone who has cleared the arena several times, but damn, that last boss fight is so much *** RNG luck bull, that I can't help but feel I'll never have the title on my main. I had the Lich down to 20 percent in the last phase and of course, because why not, she decides to throw 3 colossus at me right before the flameshaper starts his shenanigans and the tether comes up. At this point I'm thinking, it's not difficult to clear because if we have luck on our side we clear her, but I'm thinking it's damn near impossible for someone playing a dragonknight DD on a controller to get trifecta. We have desyncs of skills (Flames of Oblivion and Eruption going off several seconds after they have been activated for instance, causing major flow disruption on the rotation). I play on a solo build with Pale Order ring and I have a self-shielf and self-heal and can pretty much lolrun all the way up to there. But you know what? It's not possible to kill 3 colossus, keep an eye on the flameshaper to manage the disrupt, and then have that freedom to move on a void tether enemy needed to create a hole to slink through, all in the span of a mere 20 seconds.

You see that leaderboard? See anything but sorcs on it?

I would suggest this arena gets an overhaul on mechanics; for instance don't allow her to summon up 3 damned colossus at the same time at the end phase (if you hit one, it's your fault, but why should she be allowed to summon up more than 1 at a time in that phase, it's chaotic enough), because you'll have plenty of other things you need to focus on, don't allow the flameshaper to cast fire donut while the tether is up, because you'll have to have focus on the tether (you might have a colossus up at during this, 1 colossus is difficult enough to avoid, 3, not nearly a chance).

It's small things, but when they pile up all together at once it brings the possibility to clear a trifecta run, probably on most builds, down to around a flat zero. Not even Alcast did it for his guide video for magDK, if that's a yardstick by which we can measure this nonsense.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

That automatic censoring was odd btw. I made sure not to use any language that would get my post in trouble. Here's the word, maybe needs looked over if this is really supposed to be censored.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/***

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

Wow. Ok so here's the definition.

1 : a devious trick used especially for an underhand purpose
2a : tricky or questionable practices or conduct —usually used in plural
b : high-spirited or mischievous activity —usually used in plural

And it's definitely, by definition, not a curse word, vulgar, discriminatory, or any other way flamebaiting. I'm sorry but just wanted to clarify that I made sure not to use any such language in this post.

Tsar_Gekkou

The colossus mech is mostly a time and health mechanic. My dps isn't high enough to burn 3 at once without using a destro ult so I just focus one down as it spawns so I don't get overwhelmed. If you try to burn the boss or accidentally hit a dormant colossus, you get more of them. Tab target it and focus it down before going back to the boss.

LadyNalcarya

Other (Feel free to specify)

Bat wrote: »

You see that leaderboard? See anything but sorcs on it?

Solo arena leaderboards are class-specific...

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

The colossus mech is mostly a time and health mechanic. My dps isn't high enough to burn 3 at once without using a destro ult so I just focus one down as it spawns so I don't get overwhelmed. If you try to burn the boss or accidentally hit a dormant colossus, you get more of them. Tab target it and focus it down before going back to the boss.

NI know, I'm making use of tab targetting. She summoned two colossus while I was already focusing on one in the last phase (third portal done, Mino, Chillmage and Flameshaper all up), both withing just seconds of each other, on the last phase on my run today, and so I had the first one down to around 50 percent, and then two more popped up pretty much one after the other, and this was right before the flameshaper started donut spinning and the tether came up, also both within seconds after she summoned her third colossus. When that tether is up it needs to come down, but those 3 colossus are entirely overwhelming and get in the way even if you tabtarget the void tether, you get the idea. These mechanics came up without me initialising any of the colossus.

Deep_01

No, I solo a sorc so I don't need to bother with mechanics

Bat wrote: »

You see that leaderboard? See anything but sorcs on it?

Solo arena leaderboards are class-specific.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

You see that leaderboard? See anything but sorcs on it?

Solo arena leaderboards are class-specific...

You're right, my bad. But the differences in scores are measured in tens of thousands between classes with two being especially favoured because their skills make so much more sense in a solo environment, meaning some builds and specifically some skills make solo content much easier to clear. Feel free to add thoughts regarding the topic, however.

Tsar_Gekkou

Bat wrote: »

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

The colossus mech is mostly a time and health mechanic. My dps isn't high enough to burn 3 at once without using a destro ult so I just focus one down as it spawns so I don't get overwhelmed. If you try to burn the boss or accidentally hit a dormant colossus, you get more of them. Tab target it and focus it down before going back to the boss.

She summoned two colossus while I was already focusing on one in the last phase (third portal done, Mino, Chillmage and Flameshaper all up), both withing just seconds of each other

Damn that's weird. Maybe that was just the game being stupid as it tends to do sometimes? I've never had back-to-back colossi spawn like that unless I tried to burn her and dropped a destro, so it's gotta be the game doing weird stuff again. That place does bug out sometimes, and they still haven't fixed the minotaur boss stunning you while he's still in the middle of his jump animation.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Maybe that was just the game being stupid as it tends to do sometimes? I've never had back-to-back colossi spawn like that unless I tried to burn her and dropped a destro, so it's gotta be the game doing weird stuff again. That place does bug out sometimes...

Oh yeah, I had a run a few weeks back that was just one bug after the other, like possibly all of the bugs that one can encounter in that arena but all in the same run, including the mid-air stun that pulls you back and can end up killing you lol. I hope they work the bugs out honestly, maybe that will make it more manageable, but these things I mentioned here is just ridiculous, almost to the point of devious, if they are indeed intended to be just RNG possibilities.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

Deep_01 wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

You see that leaderboard? See anything but sorcs on it?

Solo arena leaderboards are class-specific.

Feel free to add thoughts regarding the topic.

LadyNalcarya

Other (Feel free to specify)

Bat wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

You see that leaderboard? See anything but sorcs on it?

Solo arena leaderboards are class-specific...

You're right, my bad. But the differences in scores are measured in tens of thousands between classes with two being especially favoured because their skills make so much more sense in a solo environment, meaning some builds and specifically some skills make solo content much easier to clear. Feel free to add thoughts regarding the topic, however.

It's simply because sorcs and nightblades are the most popular solo dps classes, so more people are using them for this arena. More people = more skilled players who push scores.
The arena does actually favor ranged dps, but not sorcs specifically, imo it's easier on nb.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

It's simply because sorcs and nightblades are the most popular solo dps classes, so more people are using them for this arena.

There's a graph somewhere that shows possible dps for classes (it was a weird graph, showing every pillar from right to left or something like this) and sorcs did pretty good on that. That paired with the ability to just streak through the tether and not have to deal with it at all makes sense that people would run vVH more on their sorcs. But this is not a thread about classes.

zvavi

ZoS sold the answer for that with the last dlc. Pale order.

PS I got spirit slayer on my stamden in addition to my sorc (without pale order) the arena is not rngfest.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

zvavi wrote: »

ZoS sold the answer for that with the last dlc. Pale order.

PS I got spirit slayer on my stamden in addition to my sorc (without pale order) the arena is not rngfest.

Bat wrote: »

I play on a solo build with Pale Order ring and I have a self-shielf and self-heal and can pretty much lolrun all the way up to there. But you know what? It's not possible to kill 3 colossus, keep an eye on the flameshaper to manage the disrupt, and then have that freedom to move on a void tether enemy needed to create a hole to slink through, all in the span of a mere 20 seconds.

Those things are all intended to happen within 20 seconds of each other, leaving just 20 seconds to deal with all of those mechanics?

zvavi

Bat wrote: »

Those things are all intended to happen within 20 seconds of each other, leaving just 20 seconds to deal with all of those mechanics?

Flame shaper is time based, he (she?) will appear 20 seconds after you killed him(I think, it feels like 20, I might be wrong) light attack you twice(or was it trice?) And start spinning.
Colossi are % based only. She will have them spawn when boss passes the threshold of 80 60 40 20%, if you dropped all your aoes on boss, and she was channeling one of her other abilities (and therefore postponing summoning) and drop her from 80% to 38% in one go, u will get 3 colossi, and it is on you. Additional thing that might trigger colossi early is if your AoEs hit them, orb is a known offender. For example if you dropped boss from 81% to 59% while she is channeling, and get 1 colossi hit by a stray orb (or light attack) u will have 3 colossi. Still your fault.

LadyNalcarya

Other (Feel free to specify)

Bat wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

It's simply because sorcs and nightblades are the most popular solo dps classes, so more people are using them for this arena.

There's a graph somewhere that shows possible dps for classes (it was a weird graph, showing every pillar from right to left or something like this) and sorcs did pretty good on that. That paired with the ability to just streak through the tether and not have to deal with it at all makes sense that people would run vVH more on their sorcs. But this is not a thread about classes.

People who have good scores do not need streak, they just skip tether mechanics with dps.
But besides that, it is possible to get enough dps on dk. I don't have one, but a quick youtube search shows this:
https://youtu.be/l86VZ3eTF6w
https://youtu.be/fDGgUl4j9JY

zvavi

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

People who have good scores do not need use streak

Even if u don't have the dmg to straight up skip all the walls it is still more comfy to have a non wasted skill slot. Also fixed your sentence.

Ringing_Nirnroot

Other (Feel free to specify)

I just think it takes practice honestly, took me forever but I kept trying and finally got a completion (I used my stamina Templar) can clear it constantly now

tsaescishoeshiner

I only have 60k DPS on mag necro, 70k on mag warden, and the last fight is smooth for me without Ring of the Pale Order, and Spirit Slayer came quickly. I had to fiddle with my heals on both classes and replace single-target skills with AoE (I just AoE the Colossi down or ignore and kite them)

I recommend saving the Mehrunes Dagon portal for last so you don't have to deal with as many Flame Shapers. I don't always interrupt them—I often use a combination of damage shields, blocks, and roll dodges to wait out their special attack. The catch is that if your DPS is lower: the boss healed more health while you were in portal, you can't skip shades and they take longer, and the enemies will start to build up. IDK what triggers the Bone Colossi summons, but I think the fight is supposed to be done as a burn strat on the boss, which is why I like it so much personally, but also why it's hard. I don't think it's cheesing the mechanics to go fast, I think it just is the mechanic. I'll spend a few spammables on Flame Shapers and then try to AoE them down

I struggled with MagDK survivability in vMA because I felt like I was lacking a good HoT (Cauterize is a bit slow), but haven't tried MagDK vVH. Could honestly try Dragon Fire Scale if you have a single-target DoT or flex spot you can unslot. It's tempting to try Resto Staff for Regeneration ... Or I might try Corrupting Bloody Mara for the Health Recovery and use Coagulating Blood for the Health Recovery buff. IDK, let us know when you find a strategy or build that works for you.

Vildebill

I do vVH on my MagDK in like 30 minutes with no deaths, and I do it regularly. No problems whatsoever class wise. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

zvavi wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

Those things are all intended to happen within 20 seconds of each other, leaving just 20 seconds to deal with all of those mechanics?

Flame shaper is time based, he (she?) will appear 20 seconds after you killed him(I think, it feels like 20, I might be wrong) light attack you twice(or was it trice?) And start spinning.
Colossi are % based only. She will have them spawn when boss passes the threshold of 80 60 40 20%, if you dropped all your aoes on boss, and she was channeling one of her other abilities (and therefore postponing summoning) and drop her from 80% to 38% in one go, u will get 3 colossi, and it is on you. Additional thing that might trigger colossi early is if your AoEs hit them, orb is a known offender. For example if you dropped boss from 81% to 59% while she is channeling, and get 1 colossi hit by a stray orb (or light attack) u will have 3 colossi. Still your fault.

I make use of tab targetting, and I was focusing on the one colossus she already had spawned when all of a sudden there was another one, and then another one, and then the flameshaper, and then the tether, all within just a few seconds. She was already down from around 50% (as her stats were when I finished the last portal) to around 20% when these things happened in quick succession. In the last phase. I managed to disrupt the flameshaper, but the tether got blocked by 3 colossus.

Also, I of course make sure to position myself so that I don't have colossus behind any of my targets and close enough to an edge that I can drop my AOEs down on adds in front of me and kite in towards the middle to bring any eventual moving targets through the WOE, but far enough from it that I can reposition if the tether comes up. As well as select the tether bearer that has no colossus close to it, just to avoid bringing up more colossus than what she summons.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

Vildebill wrote: »

I do vVH on my MagDK in like 30 minutes with no deaths, and I do it regularly. No problems whatsoever class wise. [snip]

Do you do it on a gamepad or KB+M, and if the former, please share some tactics for when you have 3 colossus, flameshaper and a void tether happening all at the same time.

Jeirno

Other (Feel free to specify)

Did it with sorc without streak, did it on stam and magblade and done it on magDK and stamDK, just kill stuff and stop dying.

zvavi

Bat wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

I do vVH on my MagDK in like 30 minutes with no deaths, and I do it regularly. No problems whatsoever class wise. [snip]

Do you do it on a gamepad or KB+M, and if the former, please share some tactics for when you have 3 colossus, flameshaper and a void tether happening all at the same time.

Option n1: nuke her faster.
Option n2: stop damaging her and watch the colossi summon %, push her through colossi thresholds after all adds are dead to cleanly kill colossi with no interruptions.
Option n3: nuke her faster.

Conclusion: don't get into 2 colossi situation to begin with unless you are confident in nuking.

Vildebill

Bat wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

I do vVH on my MagDK in like 30 minutes with no deaths, and I do it regularly. No problems whatsoever class wise. [snip]

Do you do it on a gamepad or KB+M, and if the former, please share some tactics for when you have 3 colossus, flameshaper and a void tether happening all at the same time.

I play with a keyboard and mouse. The best tactic I find is to nuke the boss, and for me the adds die when the boss gets nuked. I interrupt the flameshaper when it channels, otherwise I just let adds die in the AoE.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

People who have good scores do not need streak, they just skip tether mechanics with dps.
But besides that, it is possible to get enough dps on dk. I don't have one, but a quick youtube search shows this

I parse 70k+ without Siroria, in other words more than enough. Feel free to add any more thoughts regarding this topic, but if you don't have anything but "get gud" type of talk, do refrain.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I only have 60k DPS on mag necro, 70k on mag warden, and the last fight is smooth for me without Ring of the Pale Order, and Spirit Slayer came quickly. I had to fiddle with my heals on both classes and replace single-target skills with AoE (I just AoE the Colossi down or ignore and kite them)

I recommend saving the Mehrunes Dagon portal for last so you don't have to deal with as many Flame Shapers. I don't always interrupt them—I often use a combination of damage shields, blocks, and roll dodges to wait out their special attack. The catch is that if your DPS is lower: the boss healed more health while you were in portal, you can't skip shades and they take longer, and the enemies will start to build up. IDK what triggers the Bone Colossi summons, but I think the fight is supposed to be done as a burn strat on the boss, which is why I like it so much personally, but also why it's hard. I don't think it's cheesing the mechanics to go fast, I think it just is the mechanic. I'll spend a few spammables on Flame Shapers and then try to AoE them down

I struggled with MagDK survivability in vMA because I felt like I was lacking a good HoT (Cauterize is a bit slow), but haven't tried MagDK vVH. Could honestly try Dragon Fire Scale if you have a single-target DoT or flex spot you can unslot. It's tempting to try Resto Staff for Regeneration ... Or I might try Corrupting Bloody Mara for the Health Recovery and use Coagulating Blood for the Health Recovery buff. IDK, let us know when you find a strategy or build that works for you.

Thank you for your insightful reply, I do save that portal for last. However, when coming back and she's healed up at around 50% again, the last phase just completely disrupts the flow of my playthrough, probably because she has colossus in store for me. I can't focus on 3 colossus at the same time as a flameshaper needs to be disrupted and a tether needs to be brought down. It's a bit too much, you know. And yeah, cauterise is ridiculously slow on its HOT. I will try with the Dragon Fire Scale and see how that pans out in my next run. It's also not that I can't clear her, it's that every time I've done it, it's been after a few deaths because of overwhelming amounts of mechanics coming in. It's not that difficult of a fight, if everything just lines up properly.

Bat

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

zvavi wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

I do vVH on my MagDK in like 30 minutes with no deaths, and I do it regularly. No problems whatsoever class wise. [snip]

Do you do it on a gamepad or KB+M, and if the former, please share some tactics for when you have 3 colossus, flameshaper and a void tether happening all at the same time.

Option n1: nuke her faster.
Option n2: stop damaging her and watch the colossi summon %, push her through colossi thresholds after all adds are dead to cleanly kill colossi with no interruptions.
Option n3: nuke her faster.

Conclusion: don't get into 2 colossi situation to begin with unless you are confident in nuking.

Cool.

VoidCommander

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

You realize they are nerfing almost every aspect of the arena next patch right? Colossi are specifically getting their health drastically reduced is just one of the nerfs. Arena will be much easier to complete in a couple weeks.

OneWingedAnge7

Yes, for the love of Mara, that last phase is killing my motivation to even try

I just wish whenever I get to the final boss my game wouldn't completely die and lag me to death. It is like I'm in Cyrodiil during zerg fests. It's appaling.