Veteran Vateshran is more frustrating than it's worth.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2021

So to be clear, you beat the final boss in VMA without issue but Vateshran final boss gave you a migrane? Interesting (not judging, just interesting).

Everyone is different, but I feel like the VMA final boss learning curve is way steeper than Vateshran. Granted, it was a different time, but I died like a 100 times on the VMA final boss before I figured it out. I died maybe 3-4 times on Vateshran. VMA has more one shot mechanics than Vateshran. Really not a hard fight once you get the hang off it, you just need to prioritize and focus on mechanics in the correct order. The difficulty simply comes from the fact that it's a bit overwhelming with a lot on your screen at first. Seems like you have ruled out going back, but happy to help with strategy if it interests you.

GreenHere · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Decided I'd try the Veteran Solo Arenas today, seeing as how I'd played for almost 3 years now.

Maelstrom was no issue. Only died a few times to insta-kill mechanics.

But Vateshran...

Cleared everything without dying, then got to the final boss. Died a Dozen times, each to some mechanic that didn't seem fair. The two best ones were when I got insta-killed by the Tether mechanic despite being like 10 meters away from any of the Enemies, and when I killed the third miniboss and was instantly killed the second I teleported back in. That's not a great experience.

I don't get angry when I have a bad experience in a game, I typically just let it roll off my back. But after that last death, I realized I was getting literal tunnel vision and my head felt like it was going to explode. It felt like I was going to fall down unconscious if I walked around. I had to get up and go lie down for a few hours.

In the end, I decided that I'm done with Vateshran. At least on Veteran. I'll probably go back to farm some stuff later, but Vet is a solid "No."

Moral of the Story? You don't have to complete "harder" content. Especially if it's not well designed!

Hey @B0SSzombie , uh... not sure how much of that is hyperbole, and I'm not a medical professional or anything, but... I'm gonna go ahead and put that in the "NOT GOOD" category! I know this is a game forum and everything, so this might be out of place -- but screw it.

If you're seriously getting such severe effects from gaming-induced stress, there might be a serious medical issue underlying that. Sweaty hands and heart pounding aren't anything to worry about, but narrowing vision and feeling faint are not-so-insignificant side effects.

No joke, you might wanna check into this with a doctor, friend! Most things are better caught earlier than later, and often they're only caught at all (you know, before the person dies) because of looking into odd little warning signs like this. I'm being 100% serious.

Stay safe!

All this is assuming you literally mean "literally", and not the "modern version" of literally (which seems to mean "lol, not really")

No no, it was very much the actual "literally" and not the figurative.

It's certainly a new development. It's just strange because I've definitely done far harder things in games.

All the more reason to take it seriously, then. I had a similar thing (not game related, but similar odd symptoms) kind of out of the blue. Turned out to be a fairly serious (as in, potentially fatal) thing. I was in my mid 20s at the time. It can happen to anyone.

Sorry to get all serious, but ya know... No one else was saying it. Couldn't let it go unsaid. : P

SickleCider · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I remember I got so angry trying to beat veteran Maelstrom Arena that I actually started seeing stars. After I recovered from the "ow I just hurt myself" factor I decided to take a step back and refine my build more. This was over a year ago but after a month or two I returned and was able to beat it. My ace in the hole was DK's old wings I used to make the final boss kill himself.

Basically if you're getting too worked up over something take a break, theorize some build ideas after looking at the game's list of sets, and try again. There is fun in overcoming that difficult hurdle and sometimes it takes distancing yourself away to get a view of the bigger picture. Also asking for advice is always wise

Nah. I'm just not going to do it.

I've gotten the Platinum Trophies in Demon Souls, all 3 Dark Souls, and Bloodborne, and I never experienced anything playing those like what I did today.

Not worth it. I would rather just play another part of the game, or another game entirely, that's actually fun.

You know, as a Soulsborne vet myself, I find myself often saying this game can be harder at times than anything Soulsborne can dish out, and I'm the kind of person that is well acquainted with FRC Chalice Dungeon bosses. People don't often agree with that point of view. 🤔

Take the lessons you learned there and apply them here. Failure is forward momentum. Pacing yourself is important. Stay hydrated.
Master the mechanics. And, of course, git gud.

Don't give up, skeleton! 💀

Eedat · February 2021

Sounds like you are getting so angry that you literally aren't breathing. That's actually a thing. Don't forget to breath

Asardes · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

The Void Lich, on the other hand, is almost strictly a DPS burn. The longer that fight takes, the less likely you are to survive. You need to be able to kill the adds fast, or you'll have 2 Void Archers, 2 Void Flameshapers, and a few Shade Colossi chasing you. You need to be able to kill the tether wall enemies fast, or it's insta-death. You need to kill the Minibosses fast, or Maebroogha will fully heal.

Just like many other fights the add spawns are linked to the boss % HP. I don't remember the exact percentages for each add, but as I said they hit way harder than the actual boss. So if you only focus the boss, but not clear the adds, the damage will be overwhelming at some point, unless you can push is straight to execute, which is hard. You can actually pre-clear the colossi if you hit them before hand. On some runs I just light attacked them, stacked all 4 on the boss, dropped all my DoTs Standard of Might (I'm Stamina DK) and then spammed Whirling Blades 3-5x, roll dodged, all were dead, boss at 50% already and my ultimate at 100 alread, then I burned the ghost circle and the archers & mages, and only after that I pushed the boss to execute.

As per my point, I cannot do that with my character. I would have to completely respec everything, at which point I'd be better off just making a new character just to clear Vet Vat.

Even as a Werewolf with gear just for the Arena, my Tank isn't going to burn adds that fast. Towards the end of the fight, by time I killed one enemy, two more would have spawned to take it's place. This is a fight that needs AoE and DoT attacks by the boatload. Besides inflicting a little Disease Damage over time, I cannot do that with this character.

Maebroogha is designed like a Trial Boss, not a Solo Arena boss. No other boss in Maelstrom or Vateshran has the issues that she has.

On Warden you have for sure other tactics you can use to the same effect. If not just burn then 2 by 2. Also you don't need to be WW to finish the arena, you can just go in normal form with stamina DPS gear.

Again. And once again.

I can put DPS gear on, but I would need to completely change my Skill and Champion point distribution.

Because I. Am. A. Tank.

And I didn't have to do that for any other part of either Arena.

You keep missing my point dude.

Well solo arenas are for DPS builds, not tanks. I mean you can do vMA on a tanky build probably but it will take ages. Also my Stamina DK tank and has tanked veteran dungeons and trials, including all DLC dungeons, most of them HM. But when I do vMA or vVH I shift all attribute points from health to stamina, change my gear and CP to make it easier. I don't want to spend more than 50 minutes in vMA or an hour tops in vVH (8 boss run). It's simply not efficient because I want 2 weapons for a run, one straight away and one in the mail on Monday

And BTW I've done vMA on my Stamina Warden and it was a breeze, probably Vatershran would be too, but I haven't played her in a long time. This is her solo build http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52284

B0SSzombie · February 2021

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

The Void Lich, on the other hand, is almost strictly a DPS burn. The longer that fight takes, the less likely you are to survive. You need to be able to kill the adds fast, or you'll have 2 Void Archers, 2 Void Flameshapers, and a few Shade Colossi chasing you. You need to be able to kill the tether wall enemies fast, or it's insta-death. You need to kill the Minibosses fast, or Maebroogha will fully heal.

Just like many other fights the add spawns are linked to the boss % HP. I don't remember the exact percentages for each add, but as I said they hit way harder than the actual boss. So if you only focus the boss, but not clear the adds, the damage will be overwhelming at some point, unless you can push is straight to execute, which is hard. You can actually pre-clear the colossi if you hit them before hand. On some runs I just light attacked them, stacked all 4 on the boss, dropped all my DoTs Standard of Might (I'm Stamina DK) and then spammed Whirling Blades 3-5x, roll dodged, all were dead, boss at 50% already and my ultimate at 100 alread, then I burned the ghost circle and the archers & mages, and only after that I pushed the boss to execute.

As per my point, I cannot do that with my character. I would have to completely respec everything, at which point I'd be better off just making a new character just to clear Vet Vat.

Even as a Werewolf with gear just for the Arena, my Tank isn't going to burn adds that fast. Towards the end of the fight, by time I killed one enemy, two more would have spawned to take it's place. This is a fight that needs AoE and DoT attacks by the boatload. Besides inflicting a little Disease Damage over time, I cannot do that with this character.

Maebroogha is designed like a Trial Boss, not a Solo Arena boss. No other boss in Maelstrom or Vateshran has the issues that she has.

On Warden you have for sure other tactics you can use to the same effect. If not just burn then 2 by 2. Also you don't need to be WW to finish the arena, you can just go in normal form with stamina DPS gear.

Again. And once again.

I can put DPS gear on, but I would need to completely change my Skill and Champion point distribution.

Because I. Am. A. Tank.

And I didn't have to do that for any other part of either Arena.

You keep missing my point dude.

Well solo arenas are for DPS builds, not tanks. I mean you can do vMA on a tanky build probably but it will take ages. Also my Stamina DK tanks and has tanked veteran dungeons and trials, including all DLC dungeons, most of them HM. But when I do vMA or vVH I shift all attribute points from health to stamina, change my gear and CP to make it easier. I don't want to spend more than 50 minutes in vMA or an hour tops in vVH (8 boss run). It's simply not efficient because I want 2 weapons for a run, one straight away and one in the mail on Monday

And BTW I've done vMA on my Stamina Warden and it was a breeze, probably Vatershran would be too, but I haven't played her in a long time. This is her solo build http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52284

Honestly, I may just take my side Stamcro character I normally just use for dailies and build her up. That's if I DO try again.

I'd like to get all Achievements I earn on my main, but Alcast has a pretty simple looking Solo Stamcro with a Cookie-Cutter build. Just uses Vicious Ophidian, Briarheart, Maelstrom Bow, and Pale Order. And I have most of that. Would be a piece of cake to slap it together.

Would just need to get a grip on the rotation, since I've NEVER used a DPS in this game.

GreenHere · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

The Void Lich, on the other hand, is almost strictly a DPS burn. The longer that fight takes, the less likely you are to survive. You need to be able to kill the adds fast, or you'll have 2 Void Archers, 2 Void Flameshapers, and a few Shade Colossi chasing you. You need to be able to kill the tether wall enemies fast, or it's insta-death. You need to kill the Minibosses fast, or Maebroogha will fully heal.

Just like many other fights the add spawns are linked to the boss % HP. I don't remember the exact percentages for each add, but as I said they hit way harder than the actual boss. So if you only focus the boss, but not clear the adds, the damage will be overwhelming at some point, unless you can push is straight to execute, which is hard. You can actually pre-clear the colossi if you hit them before hand. On some runs I just light attacked them, stacked all 4 on the boss, dropped all my DoTs Standard of Might (I'm Stamina DK) and then spammed Whirling Blades 3-5x, roll dodged, all were dead, boss at 50% already and my ultimate at 100 alread, then I burned the ghost circle and the archers & mages, and only after that I pushed the boss to execute.

As per my point, I cannot do that with my character. I would have to completely respec everything, at which point I'd be better off just making a new character just to clear Vet Vat.

Even as a Werewolf with gear just for the Arena, my Tank isn't going to burn adds that fast. Towards the end of the fight, by time I killed one enemy, two more would have spawned to take it's place. This is a fight that needs AoE and DoT attacks by the boatload. Besides inflicting a little Disease Damage over time, I cannot do that with this character.

Maebroogha is designed like a Trial Boss, not a Solo Arena boss. No other boss in Maelstrom or Vateshran has the issues that she has.

On Warden you have for sure other tactics you can use to the same effect. If not just burn then 2 by 2. Also you don't need to be WW to finish the arena, you can just go in normal form with stamina DPS gear.

Again. And once again.

I can put DPS gear on, but I would need to completely change my Skill and Champion point distribution.

Because I. Am. A. Tank.

And I didn't have to do that for any other part of either Arena.

You keep missing my point dude.

Well solo arenas are for DPS builds, not tanks. I mean you can do vMA on a tanky build probably but it will take ages. Also my Stamina DK tanks and has tanked veteran dungeons and trials, including all DLC dungeons, most of them HM. But when I do vMA or vVH I shift all attribute points from health to stamina, change my gear and CP to make it easier. I don't want to spend more than 50 minutes in vMA or an hour tops in vVH (8 boss run). It's simply not efficient because I want 2 weapons for a run, one straight away and one in the mail on Monday

And BTW I've done vMA on my Stamina Warden and it was a breeze, probably Vatershran would be too, but I haven't played her in a long time. This is her solo build http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52284

Honestly, I may just take my side Stamcro character I normally just use for dailies and build her up. That's if I DO try again.

I'd like to get all Achievements I earn on my main, but Alcast has a pretty simple looking Solo Stamcro with a Cookie-Cutter build. Just uses Vicious Ophidian, Briarheart, Maelstrom Bow, and Pale Order. And I have most of that. Would be a piece of cake to slap it together.

Would just need to get a grip on the rotation, since I've NEVER used a DPS in this game.

Worth noting: It's not strictly a this OR that, type situation.

You can take a lot of what you've learned / how you build characters as a tanky main and infuse that into your DPS builds. Tanky/DPS "Hybrid" is a lot easier than Glass Cannon if you're struggling in the solo stuff, I've found. Takes a bit longer, but the "omgwtfihatemyliferightnow" factor is dramatically reduced.

There's not very many rigid DPS checks in the game (though I admit I haven't tried going slower/tanky in Vateshran specifically).

Asardes · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

The Void Lich, on the other hand, is almost strictly a DPS burn. The longer that fight takes, the less likely you are to survive. You need to be able to kill the adds fast, or you'll have 2 Void Archers, 2 Void Flameshapers, and a few Shade Colossi chasing you. You need to be able to kill the tether wall enemies fast, or it's insta-death. You need to kill the Minibosses fast, or Maebroogha will fully heal.

Just like many other fights the add spawns are linked to the boss % HP. I don't remember the exact percentages for each add, but as I said they hit way harder than the actual boss. So if you only focus the boss, but not clear the adds, the damage will be overwhelming at some point, unless you can push is straight to execute, which is hard. You can actually pre-clear the colossi if you hit them before hand. On some runs I just light attacked them, stacked all 4 on the boss, dropped all my DoTs Standard of Might (I'm Stamina DK) and then spammed Whirling Blades 3-5x, roll dodged, all were dead, boss at 50% already and my ultimate at 100 alread, then I burned the ghost circle and the archers & mages, and only after that I pushed the boss to execute.

As per my point, I cannot do that with my character. I would have to completely respec everything, at which point I'd be better off just making a new character just to clear Vet Vat.

Even as a Werewolf with gear just for the Arena, my Tank isn't going to burn adds that fast. Towards the end of the fight, by time I killed one enemy, two more would have spawned to take it's place. This is a fight that needs AoE and DoT attacks by the boatload. Besides inflicting a little Disease Damage over time, I cannot do that with this character.

Maebroogha is designed like a Trial Boss, not a Solo Arena boss. No other boss in Maelstrom or Vateshran has the issues that she has.

On Warden you have for sure other tactics you can use to the same effect. If not just burn then 2 by 2. Also you don't need to be WW to finish the arena, you can just go in normal form with stamina DPS gear.

Again. And once again.

I can put DPS gear on, but I would need to completely change my Skill and Champion point distribution.

Because I. Am. A. Tank.

And I didn't have to do that for any other part of either Arena.

You keep missing my point dude.

Well solo arenas are for DPS builds, not tanks. I mean you can do vMA on a tanky build probably but it will take ages. Also my Stamina DK tanks and has tanked veteran dungeons and trials, including all DLC dungeons, most of them HM. But when I do vMA or vVH I shift all attribute points from health to stamina, change my gear and CP to make it easier. I don't want to spend more than 50 minutes in vMA or an hour tops in vVH (8 boss run). It's simply not efficient because I want 2 weapons for a run, one straight away and one in the mail on Monday

And BTW I've done vMA on my Stamina Warden and it was a breeze, probably Vatershran would be too, but I haven't played her in a long time. This is her solo build http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52284

Honestly, I may just take my side Stamcro character I normally just use for dailies and build her up. That's if I DO try again.

I'd like to get all Achievements I earn on my main, but Alcast has a pretty simple looking Solo Stamcro with a Cookie-Cutter build. Just uses Vicious Ophidian, Briarheart, Maelstrom Bow, and Pale Order. And I have most of that. Would be a piece of cake to slap it together.

Would just need to get a grip on the rotation, since I've NEVER used a DPS in this game.

Well Warden can do good DPS considering it has access to most buffs/debuffs from skills and good sustain and self heals on top of that. I think it's only slightly behind Magicka and Stamina sorcerer as solo class. I always use dropped potions while doing solo arenas, dungeons and even trials that aren't for score so my buffs are from skills. I also played Stamina and Magicka Necromancer but although the peak damage is higher they are way more vulnerable and have worse sustain than Warden so I don't recommend them for first runs.

A very good combo is Vicious Ophidian+Two Fanged Snake+1p Kra'gh and Pale Order Ring. With sharpened offhand and a few points into piercing it's 17.5k penetration with either Shadow or Warrior mundus, everything melts since it's almost capped - trial/dungeon/arena mobs and bosses have at most 18k. I'm certain it works on any class equally well, just the skill setup changes. An alternative build is Vicious Ophidian + New Moon Acolyte (front bar only) and 1p Kra'gh + Pale Order Ring but you'll have to use Lover to reach the same penetration. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=308736

It's way easier to train a character you are already playing for a different role than do it all over again. The main limiting factor are skill points, but all my alts have 370+ and that DK has 450 or so (missing only 6 from AR ATM). But realistically you don't need than maybe ~200 to have tank and DD build on the same character.

B0SSzombie · February 2021

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

The Void Lich, on the other hand, is almost strictly a DPS burn. The longer that fight takes, the less likely you are to survive. You need to be able to kill the adds fast, or you'll have 2 Void Archers, 2 Void Flameshapers, and a few Shade Colossi chasing you. You need to be able to kill the tether wall enemies fast, or it's insta-death. You need to kill the Minibosses fast, or Maebroogha will fully heal.

Just like many other fights the add spawns are linked to the boss % HP. I don't remember the exact percentages for each add, but as I said they hit way harder than the actual boss. So if you only focus the boss, but not clear the adds, the damage will be overwhelming at some point, unless you can push is straight to execute, which is hard. You can actually pre-clear the colossi if you hit them before hand. On some runs I just light attacked them, stacked all 4 on the boss, dropped all my DoTs Standard of Might (I'm Stamina DK) and then spammed Whirling Blades 3-5x, roll dodged, all were dead, boss at 50% already and my ultimate at 100 alread, then I burned the ghost circle and the archers & mages, and only after that I pushed the boss to execute.

As per my point, I cannot do that with my character. I would have to completely respec everything, at which point I'd be better off just making a new character just to clear Vet Vat.

Even as a Werewolf with gear just for the Arena, my Tank isn't going to burn adds that fast. Towards the end of the fight, by time I killed one enemy, two more would have spawned to take it's place. This is a fight that needs AoE and DoT attacks by the boatload. Besides inflicting a little Disease Damage over time, I cannot do that with this character.

Maebroogha is designed like a Trial Boss, not a Solo Arena boss. No other boss in Maelstrom or Vateshran has the issues that she has.

On Warden you have for sure other tactics you can use to the same effect. If not just burn then 2 by 2. Also you don't need to be WW to finish the arena, you can just go in normal form with stamina DPS gear.

Again. And once again.

I can put DPS gear on, but I would need to completely change my Skill and Champion point distribution.

Because I. Am. A. Tank.

And I didn't have to do that for any other part of either Arena.

You keep missing my point dude.

Well solo arenas are for DPS builds, not tanks. I mean you can do vMA on a tanky build probably but it will take ages. Also my Stamina DK tanks and has tanked veteran dungeons and trials, including all DLC dungeons, most of them HM. But when I do vMA or vVH I shift all attribute points from health to stamina, change my gear and CP to make it easier. I don't want to spend more than 50 minutes in vMA or an hour tops in vVH (8 boss run). It's simply not efficient because I want 2 weapons for a run, one straight away and one in the mail on Monday

And BTW I've done vMA on my Stamina Warden and it was a breeze, probably Vatershran would be too, but I haven't played her in a long time. This is her solo build http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=52284

Honestly, I may just take my side Stamcro character I normally just use for dailies and build her up. That's if I DO try again.

I'd like to get all Achievements I earn on my main, but Alcast has a pretty simple looking Solo Stamcro with a Cookie-Cutter build. Just uses Vicious Ophidian, Briarheart, Maelstrom Bow, and Pale Order. And I have most of that. Would be a piece of cake to slap it together.

Would just need to get a grip on the rotation, since I've NEVER used a DPS in this game.

Well Warden can do good DPS considering it has access to most buffs/debuffs from skills and good sustain and self heals on top of that. I think it's only slightly behind Magicka and Stamina sorcerer as solo class. I always use dropped potions while doing solo arenas, dungeons and even trials that aren't for score so my buffs are from skills. I also played Stamina and Magicka Necromancer but although the peak damage is higher they are way more vulnerable and have worse sustain than Warden so I don't recommend them for first runs.

A very good combo is Vicious Ophidian+Two Fanged Snake+1p Kra'gh and Pale Order Ring. With sharpened offhand and a few points into piercing it's 17.5k penetration with either Shadow or Warrior mundus, everything melts since it's almost capped - trial/dungeon/arena mobs and bosses have at most 18k. I'm certain it works on any class equally well, just the skill setup changes. An alternative build is Vicious Ophidian + New Moon Acolyte (front bar only) and 1p Kra'gh + Pale Order Ring but you'll have to use Lover to reach the same penetration. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=308736

It's way easier to train a character you are already playing for a different role than do it all over again. The main limiting factor are skill points, but all my alts have 370+ and that DK has 450 or so (missing only 6 from AR ATM). But realistically you don't need than maybe ~200 to have tank and DD build on the same character.

Well, my main has every skill point in the game except for those past Rank 24 in Alliance War.

I just need to see if I have enough total to fit in all the skills for Tank, DPS, Thieving, Antiquities AND Crafter, since those are other aspects I'm invested in as well.

The Champion Points are a PITA though. I wish Console had stuff like the add-ons that let you save CP loadouts.

bluebird · February 2021

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Really not a hard fight once you get the hang off it, you just need to prioritize and focus on mechanics in the correct order. The difficulty simply comes from the fact that it's a bit overwhelming with a lot on your screen at first. Seems like you have ruled out going back, but happy to help with strategy if it interests you.

It does sound like OP is better off taking a break, because getting angry usually means becoming less focused, so it's healthier and better to stop metaphorically banging one's head against the wall, if it's causing problems. Health and safety come before skins and titles - don't forget to drink enough and take regular breaks, fellow gamers!

But yeah I don't think Vateshran was particularly hard. There are a some great build and gear suggestions on this thread already - but even that isn't really needed. I did it on my Stamden with 2-handers on both bars, in purple crafted gear (Hundings and something else). So really BiS gear and uber-deeps isn't nearly as important as just making sure that dps is applied to the correct targets at the correct times. As my WoW raid leader likes to say: "It doesn't matter how high your dps meter is if it's not on the prio target - and you can't dps if you're dead so don't stand in stupid"

(For real though, they're a pretty good lead and their advice does help.)

The last boss isn't even that dangerous herself, as most of her attacks are avoidable. So you can totally take the main fight slow, you only need to dps-check the instakill ring (and preferably the minibosses to prevent the boss from healing too much, but even then it's not a big deal if you don't have ults up for them, you can cycle through the phases slow and steady). I found it really helpful to make sure that I did the minibosses in an order that left the spinny-fire-mage adds for last so I didn't have to deal with interrupts throughout the whole fight.

Also, picking up the stat bonuses in the wings earlier helps (not sure if you already knew about them). Of course, if you have lag issues and desync (maybe die to the ring even though it wasn't close on your screen) it's understandable that it gets frustrating. But I'm sure you can do it some time, even without BiS gear - without compromising your actual health irl.👍

joseayalac · February 2021

It is well designed! The fact that you couldn't clear it isn't proof of that.

Trifecta runs are quite easy once you get the hold of it actually!

I think it is great that the arena is difficult in veteran, that's the point of it and if it was any easier, it would be lame for the better players.

QuebraRegra · February 2021

Wolfpaw wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Decided I'd try the Veteran Solo Arenas today, seeing as how I'd played for almost 3 years now.

Maelstrom was no issue. Only died a few times to insta-kill mechanics.

But Vateshran...

Cleared everything without dying, then got to the final boss. Died a Dozen times, each to some mechanic that didn't seem fair. The two best ones were when I got insta-killed by the Tether mechanic despite being like 10 meters away from any of the Enemies, and when I killed the third miniboss and was instantly killed the second I teleported back in. That's not a great experience.

I don't get angry when I have a bad experience in a game, I typically just let it roll off my back. But after that last death, I realized I was getting literal tunnel vision and my head felt like it was going to explode. It felt like I was going to fall down unconscious if I walked around. I had to get up and go lie down for a few hours.

In the end, I decided that I'm done with Vateshran. At least on Veteran. I'll probably go back to farm some stuff later, but Vet is a solid "No."

Moral of the Story? You don't have to complete "harder" content. Especially if it's not well designed!

I can tell you normal is stress free. Farmed all the weapons and 3 style pages in a weekend, & never went back.

It's already a pain as a pvp player to have to pve, but vet, no thank you.

"and never went back"... and this is on normal. My feelings exactly. So the devs spent a buncha time on content no one really enjoys.

Asardes · February 2021

I don't think there's a dichotomy between PvP and PvE. People who are really good at PvP seem to do well in PvE, especially in veteran Solo Arenas and 4 man content. I've noticed quite a few high ranked players with Flawless Conqueror, Spirit Slayer, Undying Song, The Unchained etc. in Cyrodiil.

B0SSzombie · February 2021

Just for the hell of it, tried again. New build, Stamina Warden DPS with all the works. Watched videos, read guides, parsed DPS and practiced my rotation on my Training Dummy.

Died to the final boss a few times getting a feel for things. Then Got her down to 15% Health after killing the last miniboss. And died from the insta-kill tether again while nowhere near the enemies. They were still on the outer ring, and I was running from the center and I just died. Even said it was from the effect in the recap.

I'm done. This content can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. It's bad for my health and I feel nauseous.

Zos, this Arena, which honestly is otherwise very fun, is completely ruined by a very poorly designed final boss. In 25 years of playing every genre of video game under the sun, this is, and I'm not exaggerating here, the worst gameplay experience I've ever had in a Triple A game.

I'm not gonna throw a temper tantrum, or rage quit, or threaten to uninstall the game. I'm just not going to step outside my comfort zone ever again. I tried to do something new, and basically got slapped in the face for it. I'm not going to bother with PVP, or Vet Trials, or anything I have yet to really delve into. You've succeeded in keeping me in my tiny box of safety. When I run out of things to do in the game while in that little box, I'll just play something else.

Anyone who's going to try and say "Oh just try again after doing X," please don't. At this point, it will only make me more ill. Don't recommend something to me that will actually harm me.

bluebird · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Then Got her down to 15% Health after killing the last miniboss. And died from the insta-kill tether again while nowhere near the enemies. They were still on the outer ring, and I was running from the center and I just died. Even said it was from the effect in the recap.
[...]
Zos, this Arena, which honestly is otherwise very fun, is completely ruined by a very poorly designed final boss. In 25 years of playing every genre of video game under the sun, this is, and I'm not exaggerating here, the worst gameplay experience I've ever had in a Triple A game.

Doesn't sound like it has to do with the arena itself. Sounds like a lag/desync issue.

Do you lag in other content as well (dungeons, trials, pvp)? Are you playing on the servers closest to your geographical location? Are you using a wired internet connection, or wireless? If you live in an apartment building, you may want to look into interfering signals that may make it worse, and make sure your connection is always using the least-busy channel. Not trying to convince you to continue btw if you don't feel like it, just offering suggestions for when/if ever you may want to resolve the roadblock.

B0SSzombie · February 2021

bluebird wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Then Got her down to 15% Health after killing the last miniboss. And died from the insta-kill tether again while nowhere near the enemies. They were still on the outer ring, and I was running from the center and I just died. Even said it was from the effect in the recap.
[...]
Zos, this Arena, which honestly is otherwise very fun, is completely ruined by a very poorly designed final boss. In 25 years of playing every genre of video game under the sun, this is, and I'm not exaggerating here, the worst gameplay experience I've ever had in a Triple A game.

Doesn't sound like it has to do with the arena itself. Sounds like a lag/desync issue.

Do you lag in other content as well (dungeons, trials, pvp)? Are you playing on the servers closest to your geographical location? Are you using a wired internet connection, or wireless? If you live in an apartment building, you may want to look into interfering signals that may make it worse, and make sure your connection is always using the least-busy channel. Not trying to convince you to continue btw if you don't feel like it, just offering suggestions for when/if ever you may want to resolve the roadblock.

Never lag anywhere else, even Trials. I live in Florida and play the NA servers, have a wired 100 mb upload/download, live in a house etc.

It's not lag, it's just a buggy mess.

GreenHere · February 2021

Out of curiosity @B0SSzombie , since I don't know you and your play style and whatnot, have you tried soloing world bosses, dragons, etc.? Do you have other ESO experiences you could compare to that final frustration in Vateshran?

You pretty clearly are not a fan of that final encounter, but I'm curious how you think it measures up to other hard stuff one could take on.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2021

bluebird wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Really not a hard fight once you get the hang off it, you just need to prioritize and focus on mechanics in the correct order. The difficulty simply comes from the fact that it's a bit overwhelming with a lot on your screen at first. Seems like you have ruled out going back, but happy to help with strategy if it interests you.

It does sound like OP is better off taking a break, because getting angry usually means becoming less focused, so it's healthier and better to stop metaphorically banging one's head against the wall, if it's causing problems. Health and safety come before skins and titles - don't forget to drink enough and take regular breaks, fellow gamers!

But yeah I don't think Vateshran was particularly hard. There are a some great build and gear suggestions on this thread already - but even that isn't really needed. I did it on my Stamden with 2-handers on both bars, in purple crafted gear (Hundings and something else). So really BiS gear and uber-deeps isn't nearly as important as just making sure that dps is applied to the correct targets at the correct times. As my WoW raid leader likes to say: "It doesn't matter how high your dps meter is if it's not on the prio target - and you can't dps if you're dead so don't stand in stupid" (For real though, they're a pretty good lead and their advice does help.)

The last boss isn't even that dangerous herself, as most of her attacks are avoidable. So you can totally take the main fight slow, you only need to dps-check the instakill ring (and preferably the minibosses to prevent the boss from healing too much, but even then it's not a big deal if you don't have ults up for them, you can cycle through the phases slow and steady). I found it really helpful to make sure that I did the minibosses in an order that left the spinny-fire-mage adds for last so I didn't have to deal with interrupts throughout the whole fight.

Also, picking up the stat bonuses in the wings earlier helps (not sure if you already knew about them). Of course, if you have lag issues and desync (maybe die to the ring even though it wasn't close on your screen) it's understandable that it gets frustrating. But I'm sure you can do it some time, even without BiS gear - without compromising your actual health irl.👍

Yep. Always save the flamespinners for last. If you do the portals from low to high (they are at slightly different heights relative to the main platform), I found it works really well. My safe strat generally involved killing two of her chained adds during the first phase and doing one tether phase before the first portal. I drop ultimate's on the first and third portal boss, making sure to take out the flamespinner ASAP. After the first and second portal, I simply burned the boss, even if a tether appeared. After the third portal, I like to position myself near the flamespinner that spawns so it can be interupted. That flamespinner runied at least one Spirit Slayer run.

With a little DPS, this whole fight can be nuked. You can ignore the chained adds and the tether mechanics if you can push the boss hard enough. They tether will despawn once you push her past her health threshold. Not the way to learn, but if you have all the stat orbs and are confident, its certainly the way to go IMO.

B0SSzombie · February 2021

Okay. Alright.

I did it. I beat the damn thing. Against all logic and sense, I convinced myself to try again, with a new strategy:

Just nuke everything before some part of the game breaks. Mechanics breaking can't kill you if they rarely happen!

Used a Hybrid of the two builds I had used, giving me a Werewolf with crazy high Crit and Healing.

I tore through the Arena, doing more damage than ever. Got to the final boss, died on my first try in the last part since I forgot to keep up my healing and a Flameshaper was too far away to interrupt, then melted her on my second. Her Health went from 40% to 0% in probably less than 20 seconds.

Got the Perfected Ice Staff, which seems like a neat weapon.

Funny enough, the Arena still glitched out a few times on this run, despite things. One time I used a Portal in the Wounding and ended up falling through the floor, and another time in Hunter's Grotto when I used the Grappling Hook, my character didn't stop at the right spot and went careening into the abyss.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a nap.

ArchMikem · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Moral of the Story? You don't have to complete "harder" content.

I learned that lesson very early on. The only Veteran content I'll do is Dungeons and Trials. I completed Vet Maelstrom ONCE, just so I can say I earned Stormproof. I'm never doing it again. I won't even think about attempting Vet Vateshran. I did it a couple of times on Normal to do some Achievements, get the Dye, as well as a couple weapons and that's it.

And yes prolonged frustration from gaming can and will affect you physiologically. It's proven too much negative emotion can have a physical impact on your health. If a player starts to get frustrated, or even furious at something in game, it's time to stop it.

Minyassa · February 2021

I don't know about other people but I think for me, attached lore makes Vateshran more nerve-wracking than Maelstrom, simply because we're told at the very beginning that this is how they test their children. So if I die, I feel weak and pathetic because a child is supposed to be able to do this. Not a good sort of pressure, embarrassment on top of frustration.

B0SSzombie · February 2021

I just realized, that in all my ranting and raving, I neglected to mention this was on the PS4, which unquestionably performs far worse than the PC counterpart. I suppose that was a significant point.

Nothing quite like weaving 4 or 5 Light Attacks and Skills with nothing actually happening until a few seconds later, when your character does some kind of freaky "Possession Dance" and some of the attacks happen, but all at once.

GreenHere · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Okay. Alright.

I did it. I beat the damn thing. Against all logic and sense, I convinced myself to try again, with a new strategy:

Just nuke everything before some part of the game breaks. Mechanics breaking can't kill you if they rarely happen!

Used a Hybrid of the two builds I had used, giving me a Werewolf with crazy high Crit and Healing.

I tore through the Arena, doing more damage than ever. Got to the final boss, died on my first try in the last part since I forgot to keep up my healing and a Flameshaper was too far away to interrupt, then melted her on my second. Her Health went from 40% to 0% in probably less than 20 seconds.

Got the Perfected Ice Staff, which seems like a neat weapon.

Funny enough, the Arena still glitched out a few times on this run, despite things. One time I used a Portal in the Wounding and ended up falling through the floor, and another time in Hunter's Grotto when I used the Grappling Hook, my character didn't stop at the right spot and went careening into the abyss.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a nap.

HEY! Congrats! : D

And... my condolences!

Honestly, I've really enjoyed you sharing your journey with us. I'm glad I'm not the only one who goes through the, "hey, this is pretty neat!", "wait, this is kinda hard...", "WTF why would anyone do this?!", "I hate ESO, I hate myself, I'M NEVER COMING BACK TO THIS WRETCHED ARENA", "BOOYAH, ************!! I FINALLY DID IT!" type of phases! haha

Seriously, congrats!

Good luck on your next 43 runs, getting all the weapons you want! ;P

B0SSzombie · February 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Okay. Alright.

I did it. I beat the damn thing. Against all logic and sense, I convinced myself to try again, with a new strategy:

Just nuke everything before some part of the game breaks. Mechanics breaking can't kill you if they rarely happen!

Used a Hybrid of the two builds I had used, giving me a Werewolf with crazy high Crit and Healing.

I tore through the Arena, doing more damage than ever. Got to the final boss, died on my first try in the last part since I forgot to keep up my healing and a Flameshaper was too far away to interrupt, then melted her on my second. Her Health went from 40% to 0% in probably less than 20 seconds.

Got the Perfected Ice Staff, which seems like a neat weapon.

Funny enough, the Arena still glitched out a few times on this run, despite things. One time I used a Portal in the Wounding and ended up falling through the floor, and another time in Hunter's Grotto when I used the Grappling Hook, my character didn't stop at the right spot and went careening into the abyss.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a nap.

HEY! Congrats! : D

And... my condolences!

Honestly, I've really enjoyed you sharing your journey with us. I'm glad I'm not the only one who goes through the, "hey, this is pretty neat!", "wait, this is kinda hard...", "WTF why would anyone do this?!", "I hate ESO, I hate myself, I'M NEVER COMING BACK TO THIS WRETCHED ARENA", "BOOYAH, ************!! I FINALLY DID IT!" type of phases! haha

Seriously, congrats!

Good luck on your next 43 runs, getting all the weapons you want! ;P

For the record, I stand by everything I said. Vateshran, outside of the Final Boss is a well designed and fun experience, but Maebroogha is garbage. Maelstrom had it right, where it was less of a "timer/DPS check," and more of a "Do the mechanic correctly or you lose" situation. It's far more inviting to builds and classes of all types.

But yeah, all those future runs are going to be on Normal. The only set I'd really like from there is Void Bash (And maybe Explosive Rebuke, for silly builds), and the only thing the Perfected version has over it is like 500 More Health. That's a joke.

5_RAGEsMW · February 2021

Vatesheran was dead easy compared when vma came out in 2016, got my undying song deathless achievement third try on my stam nb. I could had made it even easier if I used my magicka nightblade. Casuals gonna casual.

CrashTest · February 2021

Yep, VH is irritating.

Asardes · February 2021

B0SSzombie wrote: »

But yeah, all those future runs are going to be on Normal. The only set I'd really like from there is Void Bash (And maybe Explosive Rebuke, for silly builds), and the only thing the Perfected version has over it is like 500 More Health. That's a joke.

If you play stamina Frenzied Momentum can be really good in PvP too.

B0SSzombie · February 2021

Asardes wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

But yeah, all those future runs are going to be on Normal. The only set I'd really like from there is Void Bash (And maybe Explosive Rebuke, for silly builds), and the only thing the Perfected version has over it is like 500 More Health. That's a joke.

If you play stamina Frenzied Momentum can be really good in PvP too.

I'm sure, but I'm strictly a Tank. Any DPSing I do is strictly to do stuff like Arenas.

Though odds are, Void Bash will be the last thing that drops and I'll probably get all the other sets before it.

NeKryXe · March 2022

Vateshran final boss problem is not even the difficulty. It's just the most boring thing I ever played in my life. It takes ages to (not) finish, I always end up quitting before I die. It reminds me some of the worst games I played in ZX Spectrum era.

I lost the count I almost killed the thing and it always recharge. I guess I'm too old for this [Snip]. :'(

[Edited for minor profanity bypass]

Grandchamp1989 · March 2022

Vateshran Got more of a dungeon feel than vMA, which is more traditional arena and mech heavy.

The big threat in Vateshran is adds.
In vMA you rarely get adds with more than 100-200k hp in Vateshran the collusus that help overwhelm you are like 400k+ hp on the final boss.

You have to chew through much more HP in Vateshran and bulky adds, where vMA tend to be more mech heavy