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Magblade BG questions

NagualV
NagualV
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What's up everyone, I am thinking about seriously trying battlegrounds, I've played very little of them as I have always preferred cyrodil/open world. I play a stealth magblade in cyrodil, and I want to ask all the pros on here a few questions.

1. Crits - it seems from what i read, crit builds are not viable in battlegrounds, is this correct? Is there NO viability at all for crit builds?
2. Procs - I dont currently use a proc build, is a proc build the best/only way to play battlegrounds(for magblade class specifically)?
3. Armor - if I choose to play a damage dealer(not healer), is light armor at all viable? Or is heavy recommended for survival?
4. Stealth - is shadowy disguise useful as a magblade in battlegrounds?
5. Healing - if I choose to play more of a support/healing role(not damage dealer), is magblade a viable option? Also, same armor question, light or heavy?

Finally, if anyone has any recommended builds for magblade(healer or dd), or a reference to someone who has a good beginner's build, that would be appreciated too. Thanks.

Best Answers

  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    1. Crit is less important because most people run proc sets and or malacath, and without the benefit of cp, reaching meaningful levels of crit generally comes at a cost elsewhere. It's just not really worth it.

    2. Damaged focused magblades are generally shoehorned into proc sets atm. Caluurions is a very popular option. At the end if the day, there are not proc based setups for magblade but you really have to work harder for them.

    3.Mostly light armor, but that is because of the proc sets in question. 5h is hard on sustain for magblades in no cp.

    4. Shadowy disguise is your only option if you want to process actual killing power. The days of a more brawler based magblade are gone atm.

    5. Magblade healer is actually quite strong. In 5h or 5l. Healthy offering heals for a shit load. Soul siphoning is one of the strongest group wide life saver ult in the game even in spite of its .5 sec cast time. Lean into the shadow passive to increase your max health on your dark cloak bar. I could write paragraphs on magblade healer but I wont. They absolutely work in no cp and cp alike. I have been healing in pvp on magblade since beta.
    Answer ✓
  • Heresyall
    Heresyall
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    -Heresya EP MagNB/AR 50
    -Hȩresya EP MagNB/AR 50
    -Lonely Player EP MagNB/AR 50
    -The Godblade DC MagNB/ AR 50
    -Useless Class EP MagNB/AR 50
    -Crippled Class AD MagNB/AR 49
    -The Serpent EP MagNB/ AR 49
    -Lord Herrington EP MagDK/AR 46
    -Turbo ...... EP MagNecro/AR 35


    The unseen blade is the deadliest
    Hopesfire/Roleplay Circle
    http://www.youtube.com/c/Heresya
    Answer ✓
  • Ididuz
    Ididuz
    Hello, I can add that I use hybrid build with out proc set (Julianos, Vigor and 1pc Balorg/Iceheart).
    1. I use Thief mundus and have 55% crit chance. With nightblade passive to crit damage my Offering can heal very strong.
    2. I don't like proc set and think that Stat based build can be competent.
    3. Light armor passive more interest for this kind of build. I use Mist form for defense.
    4. Invis help me ignore dot damage by proc and regroup when needed.
    5. Sorry for my English, I am from Russia.
    Answer ✓
  • WhyEvenTry
    WhyEvenTry
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    NagualV wrote: »
    What's up everyone, I am thinking about seriously trying battlegrounds, I've played very little of them as I have always preferred cyrodil/open world. I play a stealth magblade in cyrodil, and I want to ask all the pros on here a few questions.

    1. Crits - it seems from what i read, crit builds are not viable in battlegrounds, is this correct? Is there NO viability at all for crit builds?
    2. Procs - I dont currently use a proc build, is a proc build the best/only way to play battlegrounds(for magblade class specifically)?
    3. Armor - if I choose to play a damage dealer(not healer), is light armor at all viable? Or is heavy recommended for survival?
    4. Stealth - is shadowy disguise useful as a magblade in battlegrounds?
    5. Healing - if I choose to play more of a support/healing role(not damage dealer), is magblade a viable option? Also, same armor question, light or heavy?

    Finally, if anyone has any recommended builds for magblade(healer or dd), or a reference to someone who has a good beginner's build, that would be appreciated too. Thanks.

    I'm one of the few magblades in bgs on PC NA, and even more rare I use dark cloak.

    1. There is absolutely viability for a crit build. Easy way is to use caluurion. Many people are dropping impen in favor of different armor traits = crits hit hard.
    2. Proc build will be the best build. No proc is definitely possible. I've been using a no proc build in light armor recently(with dark cloak not invis) and doing fairly well. Obviously it requires more effort/finesse and you won't have as much success as using procs but it's possible.
    3. Yes you can make light armor work, especially if you want to use invis cloak. Just have to build for it in a smart way(example: having more speed to help mitigate dmg).
    4. Yes it can be, depends on build/playstyle.
    5. Yes magblade can heal. I don't personally have experience healing, but majority of healers in bgs are running heavy armor. If you go light armor as a healer you will be focused in every fight and killed quickly. Heavy is the way to go.

    Heresya's build is very good. The meta build is zaan + vate inferno + malacath and then fit in whatever else you want (heavy).
    Answer ✓
  • DTStormfox
    DTStormfox
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    1. Crit is indeed not important. It is all about wearing the best proc sets.
    2. Yes, only go proc sets
    3. Whatever armor the proc set gives you, you should go with it.
    4. No, because proc sets will ruin your day in stealth
    5. Healing is useless in battlegrounds...because proc sets easily out-damage you.
    6. I know that there is no sixth question, but you should go stamina because stamina rules battlegrounds and any other PvP arena. Magicka builds are nearly useless in the current version of the game.


    Edit: by the way, this is a serious answer. This is the state of Battlegrounds PvP at the moment. If you don't wear the meta proc sets, you are outgunned like taking a letter opener to a .50 cal gunfight.



    Edited by DTStormfox on February 8, 2021 9:02PM
    Only responds to constructive replies/mentions

    Immortal-Legends Guild Master
    Veteran PvP player


  • The_Lex
    The_Lex
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    I’m honestly surprised that you don’t wear a proc like Caluurion’s in open world on your mageblade. May I ask what you use? Do you find it effective, however you define that, without a proc set?
    PC NA | @The_Lex
    Guilds:
    Forged for War
    Art of War
    Lords of the Shaft
    Nugget Nation


    Characters (PC NA):

    Dragonknight
    Vaaljørn | Imperial Dragonknight | PvP Magicka DPS/PvE Tank | DC

    Necromancer
    Tenebris Lex | Imperial Necromancer | Magicka | DC

    Nightblade
    Dro-Zhirr the Wanderer | Khajiit Nightblade | Stamina DPS | DC
    Lex Dark-Stalker | Bosmer Nightblade | Stamina DPS | EP
    Vaanryth Fyr | Dunmer Nightblade | Stamina DPS | AD

    Sorcerer
    Worf of Sto'Vo'Kor | Orc Sorcerer | Stamina DPS | DC
    Maldarin Direnni | Altmer Sorcerer | PvP Magicka DPS / PvE Healer | EP

    Templar
    Maximus Lex | Imperial Templar | Magicka DPS | DC
    Jabs-A-Lot | Khajiit Templar | Magicka DPS | AD

    Warden
    Tyrannus Lex | Imperial Warden | Stamina DPS | EP
  • NagualV
    NagualV
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    DTStormfox wrote: »
    1. Crit is indeed not important. It is all about wearing the best proc sets.
    2. Yes, only go proc sets
    3. Whatever armor the proc set gives you, you should go with it.
    4. No, because proc sets will ruin your day in stealth
    5. Healing is useless in battlegrounds...because proc sets easily out-damage you.
    6. I know that there is no sixth question, but you should go stamina because stamina rules battlegrounds and any other PvP arena. Magicka builds are nearly useless in the current version of the game.


    Edit: by the way, this is a serious answer. This is the state of Battlegrounds PvP at the moment. If you don't wear the meta proc sets, you are outgunned like taking a letter opener to a .50 cal gunfight.



    .. thanks, I had a feeling I was gonna hear something like this
  • NagualV
    NagualV
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    The_Lex wrote: »
    I’m honestly surprised that you don’t wear a proc like Caluurion’s in open world on your mageblade. May I ask what you use? Do you find it effective, however you define that, without a proc set?

    I'm not necessarily opposed to wearing procs, I just dont like pve that much and havent bothered farming.

    I use 5L 2H, 2 reinforced chest, 2 well fitted, 3 impen
    1 molag kena shoulder
    5 new moon acolyte
    Front bar war maiden(60% crit chance)
    Wild hunt ring
    2 swift, 1 infused, 1 mag recovery, 2 spell dam
    Backbar vma resto(50% crit chance)
    Stage 3 vamp
    Thief stone

    I'm still learning how to play, I have a killing blow every 4 kills currently. I dont die at all, unless I make a mistake. I still struggle against good players but I have killed more than one 5 star with soul harvest assassins will impale
  • NagualV
    NagualV
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    1. Crit is less important because most people run proc sets and or malacath, and without the benefit of cp, reaching meaningful levels of crit generally comes at a cost elsewhere. It's just not really worth it.

    2. Damaged focused magblades are generally shoehorned into proc sets atm. Caluurions is a very popular option. At the end if the day, there are not proc based setups for magblade but you really have to work harder for them.

    3.Mostly light armor, but that is because of the proc sets in question. 5h is hard on sustain for magblades in no cp.

    4. Shadowy disguise is your only option if you want to process actual killing power. The days of a more brawler based magblade are gone atm.

    5. Magblade healer is actually quite strong. In 5h or 5l. Healthy offering heals for a *** load. Soul siphoning is one of the strongest group wide life saver ult in the game even in spite of its .5 sec cast time. Lean into the shadow passive to increase your max health on your dark cloak bar. I could write paragraphs on magblade healer but I wont. They absolutely work in no cp and cp alike. I have been healing in pvp on magblade since beta.

    This is very helpful, thanks. I had been thinking about soul siphoning as an ult. Is combat prayer useful also?
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    NagualV wrote: »
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    1. Crit is less important because most people run proc sets and or malacath, and without the benefit of cp, reaching meaningful levels of crit generally comes at a cost elsewhere. It's just not really worth it.

    2. Damaged focused magblades are generally shoehorned into proc sets atm. Caluurions is a very popular option. At the end if the day, there are not proc based setups for magblade but you really have to work harder for them.

    3.Mostly light armor, but that is because of the proc sets in question. 5h is hard on sustain for magblades in no cp.

    4. Shadowy disguise is your only option if you want to process actual killing power. The days of a more brawler based magblade are gone atm.

    5. Magblade healer is actually quite strong. In 5h or 5l. Healthy offering heals for a *** load. Soul siphoning is one of the strongest group wide life saver ult in the game even in spite of its .5 sec cast time. Lean into the shadow passive to increase your max health on your dark cloak bar. I could write paragraphs on magblade healer but I wont. They absolutely work in no cp and cp alike. I have been healing in pvp on magblade since beta.

    This is very helpful, thanks. I had been thinking about soul siphoning as an ult. Is combat prayer useful also?

    I'm not personally a fan of combat prayer in pvp outside of low effort ball group healing, which I dont regard as actually playing a healer in pvp but I digress.

    For single target, combat prayer is magicka inefficient, and healthy offering will server that purpose. If you notice multiple members of your group are getting low, soul siphon will save them (assuming they aren't vegetables or glass cannons and possess some form of self defense in pvp). Minor berserk is nice, but the ttk is already pretty low in bgs, and most damage focused build are perfectly fine without it, or are sourcing it themselves. People dismiss refreshing path but its application range is much larger than its physical dimensions due to the built in lingering effect when leaving it and it is a respectable hot. Small fights at nodes or on flags, you will have a high uptime on it. Couple that with regen or springs and healthy offerings with wise use of dark cloak and you can float the cost of offering while still having solid healing throughput for most situations outside of organized coordinated ult dumps, which every healer that doesnt have an ult primed and ready is going to struggle with.

    I wouldn't slot combat prayer.

    Remember, health offering heals through walls, and ignores elevation limitations. Other burst heals in the game dont have this luxory. Los healing is very important and potent on magblade. Soul siphon also goes through all terrain and los but I dont know off the top of my head if other healing ultimates do as well. I'm farily sure remembrance and barrier dont but I could be wrong.
    Edited by exeeter702 on February 9, 2021 1:45AM
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    I came back after many months to see the state of Magblade in BGs. I didn't change really anything with my setup:

    Caluurion
    Bright Throat
    Balorgh

    Still works.
  • NagualV
    NagualV
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    NagualV wrote: »
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    1. Crit is less important because most people run proc sets and or malacath, and without the benefit of cp, reaching meaningful levels of crit generally comes at a cost elsewhere. It's just not really worth it.

    2. Damaged focused magblades are generally shoehorned into proc sets atm. Caluurions is a very popular option. At the end if the day, there are not proc based setups for magblade but you really have to work harder for them.

    3.Mostly light armor, but that is because of the proc sets in question. 5h is hard on sustain for magblades in no cp.

    4. Shadowy disguise is your only option if you want to process actual killing power. The days of a more brawler based magblade are gone atm.

    5. Magblade healer is actually quite strong. In 5h or 5l. Healthy offering heals for a *** load. Soul siphoning is one of the strongest group wide life saver ult in the game even in spite of its .5 sec cast time. Lean into the shadow passive to increase your max health on your dark cloak bar. I could write paragraphs on magblade healer but I wont. They absolutely work in no cp and cp alike. I have been healing in pvp on magblade since beta.

    This is very helpful, thanks. I had been thinking about soul siphoning as an ult. Is combat prayer useful also?

    I'm not personally a fan of combat prayer in pvp outside of low effort ball group healing, which I dont regard as actually playing a healer in pvp but I digress.

    For single target, combat prayer is magicka inefficient, and healthy offering will server that purpose. If you notice multiple members of your group are getting low, soul siphon will save them (assuming they aren't vegetables or glass cannons and possess some form of self defense in pvp). Minor berserk is nice, but the ttk is already pretty low in bgs, and most damage focused build are perfectly fine without it, or are sourcing it themselves. People dismiss refreshing path but its application range is much larger than its physical dimensions due to the built in lingering effect when leaving it and it is a respectable hot. Small fights at nodes or on flags, you will have a high uptime on it. Couple that with regen or springs and healthy offerings with wise use of dark cloak and you can float the cost of offering while still having solid healing throughput for most situations outside of organized coordinated ult dumps, which every healer that doesnt have an ult primed and ready is going to struggle with.

    I wouldn't slot combat prayer.

    Remember, health offering heals through walls, and ignores elevation limitations. Other burst heals in the game dont have this luxory. Los healing is very important and potent on magblade. Soul siphon also goes through all terrain and los but I dont know off the top of my head if other healing ultimates do as well. I'm farily sure remembrance and barrier dont but I could be wrong.

    I very been looking at this more, and for a nb healer in battlegrounds, I was thinking of using -

    2 bogdan or earthgore
    5 light fortified brass
    5 transmutation?
    Vma restoration staff

    Is this a decent starter/intro set up? Any changes recommended?
  • Ididuz
    Ididuz
    Maybe I am wrong but I think that monster set with static AOE don't work on BG because allys don't stay at this zone. I prefer Troll King. It work always, haven't cooldawn and synergys well with Vigor set and Skull food. When you have proc Vigor and Troll King you may have over 2000 HP regen in mist form. It is all you need defense. That is why I can't advise Fortified brass. You don't need more defense. You need maximize heal strength because with Vigor and restoration staff heavy attack + Siphoning strike passive you have all you need Magicka regen. Sorry for my English.
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    NagualV wrote: »
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    NagualV wrote: »
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    1. Crit is less important because most people run proc sets and or malacath, and without the benefit of cp, reaching meaningful levels of crit generally comes at a cost elsewhere. It's just not really worth it.

    2. Damaged focused magblades are generally shoehorned into proc sets atm. Caluurions is a very popular option. At the end if the day, there are not proc based setups for magblade but you really have to work harder for them.

    3.Mostly light armor, but that is because of the proc sets in question. 5h is hard on sustain for magblades in no cp.

    4. Shadowy disguise is your only option if you want to process actual killing power. The days of a more brawler based magblade are gone atm.

    5. Magblade healer is actually quite strong. In 5h or 5l. Healthy offering heals for a *** load. Soul siphoning is one of the strongest group wide life saver ult in the game even in spite of its .5 sec cast time. Lean into the shadow passive to increase your max health on your dark cloak bar. I could write paragraphs on magblade healer but I wont. They absolutely work in no cp and cp alike. I have been healing in pvp on magblade since beta.

    This is very helpful, thanks. I had been thinking about soul siphoning as an ult. Is combat prayer useful also?

    I'm not personally a fan of combat prayer in pvp outside of low effort ball group healing, which I dont regard as actually playing a healer in pvp but I digress.

    For single target, combat prayer is magicka inefficient, and healthy offering will server that purpose. If you notice multiple members of your group are getting low, soul siphon will save them (assuming they aren't vegetables or glass cannons and possess some form of self defense in pvp). Minor berserk is nice, but the ttk is already pretty low in bgs, and most damage focused build are perfectly fine without it, or are sourcing it themselves. People dismiss refreshing path but its application range is much larger than its physical dimensions due to the built in lingering effect when leaving it and it is a respectable hot. Small fights at nodes or on flags, you will have a high uptime on it. Couple that with regen or springs and healthy offerings with wise use of dark cloak and you can float the cost of offering while still having solid healing throughput for most situations outside of organized coordinated ult dumps, which every healer that doesnt have an ult primed and ready is going to struggle with.

    I wouldn't slot combat prayer.

    Remember, health offering heals through walls, and ignores elevation limitations. Other burst heals in the game dont have this luxory. Los healing is very important and potent on magblade. Soul siphon also goes through all terrain and los but I dont know off the top of my head if other healing ultimates do as well. I'm farily sure remembrance and barrier dont but I could be wrong.

    I very been looking at this more, and for a nb healer in battlegrounds, I was thinking of using -

    2 bogdan or earthgore
    5 light fortified brass
    5 transmutation?
    Vma restoration staff

    Is this a decent starter/intro set up? Any changes recommended?

    Honestly, at the moment 5l is pretty rough in bgs when you get higher up and people start learning to focus you. Even on nightblade, it becomes hard to shake people that actually want you dead.

    I prefer earthgore over bogdan. Bogdan is far too stationary, and often times players wont stand in it. Its healing ticks are nice and add up at the healing done score screen on certain game modes but it doesnt really save lives and you already have enough triage healing. But more important than that, and something no one ever mentions probably from lack of experience tbh is this... Bogdan will almost ALWAYS proc at your location and rarely serve as ally support /healing because as a nb healer you are constantly managing healthy offering stacks and keeping hots up. What does this mean? It means that becuase each stack of offering is a unique dot, combined with your hots rolling, each an every tick is going to likely proc bogdan off cd. What happens is you are in a fight, set up hots lay down path and safely los away from harm and dump offerings on an ally getting focused and all the sudden your bogdan procs at your feet, essentially wasted. I suppose you can argue that bogdan can serve as a buffer to help you sustain healthy offering dot ticks, but between cloak, regen and path, that is certainly not worth a monster set.

    EG will save a life, and I view it as a self defense CD just as much as for others. EG plus a couple offerings will bring someone back from the brink. The issue there though is less experienced players always roll out of it because its effect is red lol. The healing done percent 1pc bonus, while minor, helps dark cloak over max health 1pc or any other magicka bonus.

    Pariah is a strong choice imo. I play at stage 3 vamp and it works well with undeath. Brass was nerfed a while back but still decent in suppose. 5h pariah with undeath passive at 50 percent health with major resistance buff active is resistance cap +15 percent damage reduction. Outside of a dedicated magic sitting on you, you can take a beating. Stage one vamp with 5h eternal vigor and the right food buff is an alternative option, but you have to be a bit more nimble.

    Transmutation was my brother in arms set since it was added to the game back in TG. I loved it. Lately though, its use case has diminished. In bgs, crit is generally lower but more importantly, proc sets are dominant alongside malacath. This coupled with the added baseline crit resist makes transmutations buff a bit less impactful in bgs. I think people overstate by how much honestly but it still is. After its duration nerf it's still easy to front bar it ofc, and it's the only support set in pvp that has its 2 and 3 price mag recovery, meaning you never lose the recovery when bar swapping (iirc). Another set I recommend in place of trans is curse eater. This set can also be front bared and since this is where your healthy offering should be, you are easily able to direct heal allies and proc the purge. What people dont know is that the healing ticks of siphoning attacks trigger curse eater as well so this is how you benefit from the set yourself.

    You have a few options for back bar wep for sure. Vma resto are potentates are great. I prefer potentates personally as sustain isnt an issue for me, even in 5h stage 3 vamp no cp and chug pots nearly off CD. The percentage reduction from potentates works well enough with dark cloak. If you are playing a more evasive setup, vma might be better. Brp resto is a consideration if you are able to find a spot for HW. With transmutation though you need at least refreshing path or regen. If going with a different support set, you can trade one of those for HW. Powered is the preferred trait for throughput reasons ofc, but also it helps you benefit more from dark cloak without needing more max health commitment.
    Edited by exeeter702 on February 24, 2021 7:14PM
  • Doczy
    Doczy
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    flame blossom caluurion and molag or 2x stat monster. just use shadowy disguise ele weapon light attack conceal soul harvest and bam your target died in no-cp
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    Ididuz wrote: »
    Maybe I am wrong but I think that monster set with static AOE don't work on BG because allys don't stay at this zone. I prefer Troll King. It work always, haven't cooldawn and synergys well with Vigor set and Skull food. When you have proc Vigor and Troll King you may have over 2000 HP regen in mist form. It is all you need defense. That is why I can't advise Fortified brass. You don't need more defense. You need maximize heal strength because with Vigor and restoration staff heavy attack + Siphoning strike passive you have all you need Magicka regen. Sorry for my English.

    Yes this is advisable.

    General rule I go by is this..

    High resistance pariah stage 3 undeath with earthgore

    Or

    High health recovery vigor stage 1 with troll king skulls food.

    Both work very well. My only peeve is that provided bonus health recovery to allies (via troll king) does not count as healing done on the score screen so less informed players might scoff at your contribution as a healer :smiley:
    Edited by exeeter702 on February 24, 2021 7:18PM
  • Ididuz
    Ididuz
    I can add that you don't want be only healer. With high health meta you should can help allys and heal their at especially dangerous moment. At another time you can help with killing enemies. That why I only have Rapid for pre baff, Offering for single target heal and Soul Siphone AOE group heal. Another skill is standard tool kit for mag blade: Swallow, Magelight, Merciless, Fear, Incap (for passive and stun when needed), Degeneration, Siphoning Attacks, Shadowy. That is why I don't use set like Curse Eater. It is good and useful set but don't get you damage or heal strength. Sorry for my English.
  • NagualV
    NagualV
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    thanks again everyone, really helpful information. Im in the process of farming the suggested sets, including the Malacath Band, so i have something to compare to. Its funny, because when the band came out i just assumed it wasnt a fit for a nightblade, since the nightblade class has crit damage and crit chance passives. But i get what everyone is saying, and im going to try these sets out to get a feel for the difference.

    Edit* - I had missed a prior post that answers my question below. Thanks again everyone!

    I would ask maybe one final thing, what set goes well with either the Pariah/earthgore set up or the Troll King set up(For magblade healer BG's)?
    I see Eternal Vigor mentioned, what about spell power cure, or transmutation?
    Edited by NagualV on February 26, 2021 5:42PM
  • gariondavey
    gariondavey
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    Ev or spc are great
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG + Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017
    Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magden, Stamden
  • jtm1018
    jtm1018
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    NagualV wrote: »
    What's up everyone, I am thinking about seriously trying battlegrounds, I've played very little of them as I have always preferred cyrodil/open world. I play a stealth magblade in cyrodil, and I want to ask all the pros on here a few questions.

    1. Crits - it seems from what i read, crit builds are not viable in battlegrounds, is this correct? Is there NO viability at all for crit builds?
    2. Procs - I dont currently use a proc build, is a proc build the best/only way to play battlegrounds(for magblade class specifically)?
    3. Armor - if I choose to play a damage dealer(not healer), is light armor at all viable? Or is heavy recommended for survival?
    4. Stealth - is shadowy disguise useful as a magblade in battlegrounds?
    5. Healing - if I choose to play more of a support/healing role(not damage dealer), is magblade a viable option? Also, same armor question, light or heavy?

    Finally, if anyone has any recommended builds for magblade(healer or dd), or a reference to someone who has a good beginner's build, that would be appreciated too. Thanks.

    If your serious, use a warden or a necromancer or a werewolf, then your all godd.

    Oh and buy greymoor and markarth so you can have access to great rings, youll need it to be competetive.

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