Epidemic of tank failures??

preevious

Hey there, everyone.

Recently, I noticed something, maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's weird ..

Dungeon finder finally put me in a group, and very near the start, sometimes even before the first trash mob, the tank stop moving and responding. Not a word, no nothing. He just stops.
It's always the tank.

So, my question is .... why..?
Also, please don't do this .. I'm a DPS, and if my group fail because of this behaviour, it's a big deal, since it means I'll have to requeue 15-20 mins.

magnusthorek

15-20mins PLUS the queue penalty time because you're likely forced to leave the group to find a different one.

But I agree with you. When queuing as DPS I often find people uninterested enough to do things right, dying for stupid things, fake-tanks, fake-healers, people with severe connectivity issues and even drunk people (not sure this last one counts, hehe).

Then I queue as Tank and am accused of being a fake-tank while I'm just trying to provide a lil'bit of DPS with a couple of skills (y'know, Wall, Nox Breath or those three green claws I forgot the name). or when I queue as healer and people use Pale Order, die and blame me.

HoosierPappy

Make your own tank?

Mythreindeer

preevious wrote: »

Hey there, everyone.

Recently, I noticed something, maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's weird ..

Dungeon finder finally put me in a group, and very near the start, sometimes even before the first trash mob, the tank stop moving and responding. Not a word, no nothing. He just stops.
It's always the tank.

So, my question is .... why..?
Also, please don't do this .. I'm a DPS, and if my group fail because of this behaviour, it's a big deal, since it means I'll have to requeue 15-20 mins.

Likely it is a tank rebellion for the nerfs and bad blood on the forums.

Tanks already take a lot of grief and I suspect this just pushed them over the edge.

pelle412

Mythreindeer wrote: »

Likely it is a tank rebellion for the nerfs and bad blood on the forums.

Tanks already take a lot of grief and I suspect this just pushed them over the edge.

What tank nerfs?

etchedpixels

Is this mostly DLC dungeons ? I've noticed a lot of people (way way more now) queue for a random and just quit/idle if they get a DLC one. It's an unfortunate side effect of the random dungeon crystal farming mess combined with anti-social players. There needs to be an incentive for doing DLC dungeons.

It's IMHO always been a problem though because it's quicker to take a 15 minute penalty than try and PUG a DLC dungeon. Heck it's probably quicker to go watch a movie and then go back into ESO than PUG a lot of them - especially if you get a fake tank or healer.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Tanks left the building 3 years ago ^^

RageKing

my guess is that he saw he had low dps after first mob and decided to give up and just wanted you to kick him.
and if its before first mob, he prob saw low cp and assumed they would be low dps and just gave up

aurorable

I encounter a lot of fake tank who do that. They just sit there waiting for someone else to pull so they can get carried. And then on top of it I get stuck tanking on my healer, who does more dps then them

SickleCider

magnusthorek wrote: »

15-20mins PLUS the queue penalty time because you're likely forced to leave the group to find a different one.

But I agree with you. When queuing as DPS I often find people uninterested enough to do things right, dying for stupid things, fake-tanks, fake-healers, people with severe connectivity issues and even drunk people (not sure this last one counts, hehe).

Then I queue as Tank and am accused of being a fake-tank while I'm just trying to provide a lil'bit of DPS with a couple of skills (y'know, Wall, Nox Breath or those three green claws I forgot the name). or when I queue as healer and people use Pale Order, die and blame me.

Or high. Always drunk or high or both. It's some guy mumbling into his mic about how drunk or high or both he is.

Now, when I'm pugging, there's a drunk person in the pug 100% of the time (hurrhurr 😜) but I don't know why people have got to be so messy about it.

jle30303

etchedpixels wrote: »

Is this mostly DLC dungeons ? I've noticed a lot of people (way way more now) queue for a random and just quit/idle if they get a DLC one. It's an unfortunate side effect of the random dungeon crystal farming mess combined with anti-social players. There needs to be an incentive for doing DLC dungeons.

It's IMHO always been a problem though because it's quicker to take a 15 minute penalty than try and PUG a DLC dungeon. Heck it's probably quicker to go watch a movie and then go back into ESO than PUG a lot of them - especially if you get a fake tank or healer.

If you can't do the hard mode on veteran, there isn't even much incentive for doing veteran.

My suggestion would be:

Original content dungeons 1 key normal, 2 keys veteran, 3 keys vet hard mode.
DLC content dungeons: 2 keys normal, 3 keys veteran, 4 keys vet hard mode.

renne

Versispellis wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

15-20mins PLUS the queue penalty time because you're likely forced to leave the group to find a different one.

But I agree with you. When queuing as DPS I often find people uninterested enough to do things right, dying for stupid things, fake-tanks, fake-healers, people with severe connectivity issues and even drunk people (not sure this last one counts, hehe).

Then I queue as Tank and am accused of being a fake-tank while I'm just trying to provide a lil'bit of DPS with a couple of skills (y'know, Wall, Nox Breath or those three green claws I forgot the name). or when I queue as healer and people use Pale Order, die and blame me.

Or high. Always drunk or high or both. It's some guy mumbling into his mic about how drunk or high or both he is.

Now, when I'm pugging, there's a drunk person in the pug 100% of the time (hurrhurr 😜) but I don't know why people have got to be so messy about it.

God, you just reminded me of the time I pugged into (normal) Unhallowed Grave and the other DPS had to stop and go and wee or stop and go and get another beer after every boss and trash pull.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

I feel there is a certain approach to personality, or role when playing as a tank.

No one wants a meek and timid player tanking that hangs at the back of the group. You may lack confidence in what you are doing, but at least do what you expect of other tanks. Run ahead, tag what you can, and position as best as you can.

If you die, that's fine, there's a myriad of reasons as to why. Own them, or recognise it may well have been a healer or dps or mechanic issue.

Be assertive.

Starlock

Gee, I dunno - as the DPS are you constantly rushing ahead at breakneck speed and making the tank's job variously harder or straight up pointless? I've been known to just stand there for a while when McSpeederton Speedrunner decides they want to tank the dungeon for me. I mean, why bother doing my job if they're going to RushMcRush anyway?

AyaDark

Mmm tank fairys.

Like fairys, may be you just stand on its tail ?

Once we go to dunguan:
Me as a tank and my girl dd.

But on some boss healer start to say something bad to me.

I vote to cick him. No reaction. Than i wipe them for a 30 minutes and teabag there dead bodys (healers and another DD)

Than i sad that we just go ear pizza, and they can wait if they want. I do not make anything why they are in party.

They leave after 20 more minutes and with 2 new randoms we pass.

So may be you provoke tank with some thing ?

Do not he ask to kick somebody ?

May be some body PM him some bad or say something bad ?

Do you do somethink to provoke him ?

And the same was once on DD.

I was DD 50+ on 3 kk dummy.

With restro stuff, because my skills was buged and did not work with destro.

Healer heal me, i heal healer.
Healer give me healing undaunted ball, i give him the same.

On second boss 1 party member ask
Who the hell try to cick you all the way ? I am tired to press NO.

It was heal. We cick him and do no death + speed run.

With only 3 of us.

So you do not see what another party members do, may be they just do something bad to him or he just get disconnect, or i do not know.

And yes one time we get tank that just jump and do not do anything more, do not agr or even hit ads and boss.

Just cick him on 3 rd boss and go without.

May be some trolls, who just hate people.

So better have tank swap gear on DD.

But yes tanks are very provoked with game style they do not want to play, thats why so less tanks.

Tanks want to be tanks, all they get in Alcast meta is buff bot: they do not like it and show may be there hate to all of you.

I do the same but on ru forrums. I am now DD and i really hate META and a lot of people who abuse tanks play it.

So ... i can understand tanks hate, my main was tank.

SickleCider

renne wrote: »

Versispellis wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

15-20mins PLUS the queue penalty time because you're likely forced to leave the group to find a different one.

But I agree with you. When queuing as DPS I often find people uninterested enough to do things right, dying for stupid things, fake-tanks, fake-healers, people with severe connectivity issues and even drunk people (not sure this last one counts, hehe).

Then I queue as Tank and am accused of being a fake-tank while I'm just trying to provide a lil'bit of DPS with a couple of skills (y'know, Wall, Nox Breath or those three green claws I forgot the name). or when I queue as healer and people use Pale Order, die and blame me.

Or high. Always drunk or high or both. It's some guy mumbling into his mic about how drunk or high or both he is.

Now, when I'm pugging, there's a drunk person in the pug 100% of the time (hurrhurr 😜) but I don't know why people have got to be so messy about it.

God, you just reminded me of the time I pugged into (normal) Unhallowed Grave and the other DPS had to stop and go and wee or stop and go and get another beer after every boss and trash pull.

Mmm-mmm, that is some MESSY behavior right there. My finger might have been hovering over the kick button at that point!

MerguezMan

preevious wrote: »

Hey there, everyone.

Recently, I noticed something, maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's weird ..

Dungeon finder finally put me in a group, and very near the start, sometimes even before the first trash mob, the tank stop moving and responding. Not a word, no nothing. He just stops.
It's always the tank.

So, my question is .... why..?
Also, please don't do this .. I'm a DPS, and if my group fail because of this behaviour, it's a big deal, since it means I'll have to requeue 15-20 mins.

Very likely, your tank is taking time to swap gear and skills, check group composition, and/or finding a strategy guide about this dungeon you just entered. Probably because:
- he spent the queue in DD outfit to do overland content while waiting
- he already knows that level 12 "healer" with a bow won't heal much
- he does not remember mechanics and don't want to figure out in the middle of fights

Or maybe it's his way to backlash the 100 DDs that queue and keep refusing at the prompt, making queue longer.

Or maybe he's just less in a hurry than you.

preevious

Well, they sure as hell not swapping gear.
QWe usually wait quite long, and also try to speak to him .. nothing..

It's not a cp/DPS issues. It can happen sometimes before we even fight anything. Also, it happens when the 2 DDs are very good.

I suppose they queue for a random, realise it's a DLC, chicken out, and then wait to be kicked instead of leaving so they don't eat the penalty ... in a blatant disregard for those who actually have long queue times..

Despicable fellows ... Queue in normal, if you are not ready to do ALL the content you could end up into.

Artemis_X_

I do this when I tank occasionally, don't think I'm alone either. Though I always say something, it's often because the dps or healer is yolo-Ing into every trash or boss fight. It ruins it for everyone else and makes controlling the fight so much harder.

Grandchamp1989

Unless your regularly play Tank on all types of content I doubt you understand the mentality of PUG tanking.

Imagine this: You make a mistake - everyone dies - you're blamed.
But at the same time everyone makes your life harder by not respecting your role pulling, running ahead or doing atrocious damage.

Then you start to weigh your options really quick.

-If you get an impatient or toxic group - you'll likely pay the price for it - so you leave.
-If you get a group with low damage enemies will kick your around for longer, which means increased chance of things going bad (and you being blamed or wasting your time) so you leave.

Then there's the other side of the coin..

You get a scared fake tank who counts on impatient DPS who pulls everything, because that means they can hide in the back and get a free ride.

And for DLC - some people just fear them. So they leave.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Those people are most likely fake tanks hoping for a base game vet instance and not a DLC where tanking is 1) dearly needed, 2) non-trivial and 3) requires a specialised tank build. They want you to kick them so they can re-queue immediately.

I kicked one of these people idling and being unresponsive at the start of vFH, only to have the same person pop into the group again immediately after a kick, as the "replacement tank", because tanks queuing alone for vet dungeons are rare, and groups waiting for a replacement get priority. After a second kick, we ended up not getting a tank for the next 10 minutes, and abandoned the attempt when we considered the penalty timer would have expired.

I wish there would be some kind of long term penalty for queuing as a tank for vet dungeons and repeatedly not even trying to do the job. I also wish for world peace and a pony. I would name it Fluffy.

preevious

This is infuriating. DPS wait 15-20 mins, for entry.

The next tank that does that won't be kicked. I'll stay with him and even buff him so he never disconnects.
By the eight, he'll pay for the others, and WILL eat the penalty.
My time is already lost, anyway.

B0SSzombie

As an actual Tank, there's only ever 2 reasons I'll leave a group:

1. More than one player is not being a team player (i.e. running ahead, ignoring mechanics, refusing to cooperate, etc).
2. There just isn't enough DPS and/or healing to clear the Dungeon/clear it in a reasonable time. If I end up in Castle Thorn in a normal random Dungeon and it takes us 10 minutes to kill the first boss because one DPS is level 48 and the other is CP 127, I'm gonna bail. Hell, sometimes the Healer leaves before me.

BlueRaven

Mythreindeer wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Hey there, everyone.

Recently, I noticed something, maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's weird ..

Dungeon finder finally put me in a group, and very near the start, sometimes even before the first trash mob, the tank stop moving and responding. Not a word, no nothing. He just stops.
It's always the tank.

So, my question is .... why..?
Also, please don't do this .. I'm a DPS, and if my group fail because of this behaviour, it's a big deal, since it means I'll have to requeue 15-20 mins.

Likely it is a tank rebellion for the nerfs and bad blood on the forums.

Tanks already take a lot of grief and I suspect this just pushed them over the edge.

I don’t think this is true, but I sorta want it to be.

BlueRaven

pelle412 wrote: »

Mythreindeer wrote: »

Likely it is a tank rebellion for the nerfs and bad blood on the forums.

Tanks already take a lot of grief and I suspect this just pushed them over the edge.

What tank nerfs?

The constant dps nerfs.

I have two reasonably geared out tanks that are completely unfun to play if I am not doing dungeons. And I only do dungeons with friends. As a result, I only log onto them as a request.
Tanks need QOL improvements, badly.

BejaProphet

It’s not the main point of this thread but...

Some of you tanks need to learn that when the content is easy the children are going to play.

They are going to rush ahead, pull weird pulls, experiment and see what crazy things they can do and still survive, etc.

It’s not personal, they aren’t meaning to insult your tanking. It’s just human nature. They get serious and technical in hard dungeons, but it’s fun to do dumb stuff in easy ones. They are likely not thinking about your tanking in the least, but enjoying doing something a little different with THEIR toon.

But know that YOU as a tank will have more fun in your Pug when you roll weak dungeons if you just remember the kids will be silly when they can.

B0SSzombie

BejaProphet wrote: »

It’s not the main point of this thread but...

Some of you tanks need to learn that when the content is easy the children are going to play.

They are going to rush ahead, pull weird pulls, experiment and see what crazy things they can do and still survive, etc.

It’s not personal, they aren’t meaning to insult your tanking. It’s just human nature. They get serious and technical in hard dungeons, but it’s fun to do dumb stuff in easy ones. They are likely not thinking about your tanking in the least, but enjoying doing something a little different with THEIR toon.

But know that YOU as a tank will have more fun in your Pug when you roll weak dungeons if you just remember the kids will be silly when they can.

Until the kids start insulting and blaming us since they couldn't finish what they started...

2/10 analogy, try again.

Nowa133

20 min for queueing as a dps? When? I usually wait for 2h, '-'". And i'm not gonna lie. When i do dungeons with my tank, i usually only do vet mode, since at least i'm usually respected there, as a tank. (There's not running ahead, like a headless chicken) Its no fun to do normals as a healer or tank, since nobody needs it there.

GreenhaloX

I believe it's one of the advantages of being a casual gamer. As a casual gamer, you're very limited in how much time you can play ESO. I'm about a couple hours here and there; maybe a few more on the weekends. So, with such limited time, I generally avoid longer contents as vet stuff; no vet dungeons and definitely no time for vet trial. I am able to get a normal dungeon here and there; thus, I really don't encounter any issues. I am fine with this and been fine for years.

I run my hybrid tanks all the time doing both tanking and damaging and with lower level non-CP players. I just do it to get the undaunted daily to just level up the undaunted points. So, by just doing normal dungeons, I would avoid all the drama and craziness associated with elitist wannabes and curious lower level players associated with vet dungeons and the likes. Just a video game to me for entertainment and passing the time; nothing more here.

Snoopies

The OP highlights the crap a poor tank has to take in this game, I am constantly running pug groups where the DD disappear and yet I don't feel the need to open a whole forum page about it but because it is a tank we have high drama.

Perhaps the tank has a real life issue that come up, eg a son falling out of bed or a boyfriend cutting his hand whilst cooking or any of a number of reasons that someone would run to help.

Snoopies

For the guys waiting 2 hours? Wow this must be rare, I run 1 random Dung and 1 BG each day on 3 toons, Tank, DD and healer, and whilst my DD has a longer wait it is normally 15 mins, 5 mins with healer and zero with the tank.

One thing I must point out though running as a tank in pugs is not good. I plan to join a guild ASAP, all players in my current one no longer play, while I don't mind pugs with the healer or DD, once in that guild I may not bother with pugs with the tank again - I feel like a tour guide tanking in this game.

Too many fools watching the top end guilds squeezing out an additional quarter % dps and thinking thats what all tanks should be doing.