Anyone care to explain what group *support* exactly a Templar offers?

Athan1

I main a Templar, and I'm tired of hearing about all the group support and utility Templars offer... Careful, I'm talking about support and buffs/debuffs, not heals. The Templar heals are amazing and strong. But no buffs really, compared to ANY other class.

• Minor Sorcery: The only real buff Templars can provide (though mag users chug potions anyway)
• Shards: Off-resource return is good for tanks (but many healers and obvs mag DPS use blazing spear or orbs anyway)
• Magickasteal: Redundant, given the upcoming changes to magic damage and the fact that everyone uses ele drain
• Major Maim: Useful but sadly no-one uses Nova
• Minor Expedition: No-one uses Hasty Prayer
• The rest is provided by weapons or armor sets so it doesn't count

So how exactly does the Templar make a great supporter? Literally even NBs provide more group buffs. In fact they must provide the least buffs of any classes (potentially to make up for the group heals). Though I thought that was the healing class? Why does the healing class buff the group less than the dps and tanking classes?

Xuhora

we once had minor breach from PotL but thats now tied to the melee taunt ability, so no more unique class debuff
now whats left is the AoE cleanse, thats it really...

Warden: minor toughness, minor intellect/endurance
Necro: Empower, minor/major vulnerabilty
Sorcerer: minor intellect
DK: major sorcery, Major Mending (self), minor maim
NB: Major breach, minor maim, minor vulnerabilty, minor expedition
Templar: minor magickasteal on trashpacks

templar is a shadow of its former self, loosing so many unique things and having a unique buff that is provided by pots...
i love my templar healer, i love my magplar but both of them could use some love
i never played templar tank because its like harmstringing yourself, because ever other class can tank better by miles
i never played stamplar because i dont like how dependant this class is from one single spell. the best DPS is achieved with slotting jabs front bar, endless hail backbar and fill the rest with fighters guild skills, for the buffs.

that should be a clear indicator of how much of a mess the templar class has become, but there are many threads about that.

WrathOfInnos

It’s just Minor Sorcery now. That’s still very important, since potions only give Major Sorcery. Every Magicka group needs a Templar, but it can be in any role now, since PotL isn’t needed anymore.

Sometimes the Purify synergy can also be nice.

Pauwer

I use hasty prayer more than any other skill. Pvp ball group healer with curse eater. I spam it like there is no tomorrow infact lol

Athan1

Pauwer wrote: »

I use hasty prayer more than any other skill. Pvp ball group healer with curse eater. I spam it like there is no tomorrow infact lol

It's very situational for coordinated ball groups and in pvp most people use rapids anyway. The out of range healing by RoR is more useful, bc there's always someone out of your immediate range.

WabanakiWarrior

Well, you must be talking about PVE because the group utility of a magplar in PVP is hard to argue against. The Purify synergy in itself is enough to make you valuable in a team, one of your biggest ults is group synergy based (Gravity Crush), and Radiant Oppression becomes OP if you spam it on a guy while your buddies dps.
Not to mention jabs spam gets downright oppressive when combined with other melee attackers
Running with a good magplar in pvp has saved my ass more times than i can count

driosketch

Athan1 wrote: »

Pauwer wrote: »

I use hasty prayer more than any other skill. Pvp ball group healer with curse eater. I spam it like there is no tomorrow infact lol

It's very situational for coordinated ball groups and in pvp most people use rapids anyway. The out of range healing by RoR is more useful, bc there's always someone out of your immediate range.

It's also useful at the door under oils, where you wouldn't expect to use rapids.

Starlight_Whisper

Xuhora wrote: »

we once had minor breach from PotL but thats now tied to the melee taunt ability, so no more unique class debuff
now whats left is the AoE cleanse, thats it really...

Warden: minor toughness, minor intellect/endurance
Necro: Empower, minor/major vulnerabilty
Sorcerer: minor intellect
DK: major sorcery, Major Mending (self), minor maim
NB: Major breach, minor maim, minor vulnerabilty, minor expedition
Templar: minor magickasteal on trashpacks

templar is a shadow of its former self, loosing so many unique things and having a unique buff that is provided by pots...
i love my templar healer, i love my magplar but both of them could use some love
i never played templar tank because its like harmstringing yourself, because ever other class can tank better by miles
i never played stamplar because i dont like how dependant this class is from one single spell. the best DPS is achieved with slotting jabs front bar, endless hail backbar and fill the rest with fighters guild skills, for the buffs.

that should be a clear indicator of how much of a mess the templar class has become, but there are many threads about that.

Sorcerer has a 1000 penetration debuffs for group.

Athan1

WabanakiWarrior wrote: »

Well, you must be talking about PVE because the group utility of a magplar in PVP is hard to argue against. The Purify synergy in itself is enough to make you valuable in a team, one of your biggest ults is group synergy based (Gravity Crush), and Radiant Oppression becomes OP if you spam it on a guy while your buddies dps.
Not to mention jabs spam gets downright oppressive when combined with other melee attackers
Running with a good magplar in pvp has saved my ass more times than i can count

I was talking about healers. You're prob talking about a magplar dps.

AcadianPaladin

My magplar is a 'pug healer'. I like the templar for this because shards adds a second resource management (+ dps) to orbs. Because of the solid heals a templar has, I'm comfortable with the damage morph of orbs so there, again, is resource management + dps. I love having purge on a skill I would use anyway (Extended Ritual). I said 'pug healer' because a pug is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get. My elf can deliver a very respectable suite of support (dual resource skills, minor sorcery, purge, HoTs, burst heals). Her incidental dps is about 12k and can go up to 20k if less support and more damage is needed. By having strong heals and slotting jabs, she can even take a boss in her face if the tank is a fake.

I'm not arguing that templars are all awesomesauce, simply that I like using them in this role.

Athan1

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My magplar is a 'pug healer'. I like the templar for this because shards adds a second resource management (+ dps) to orbs. Because of the solid heals a templar has, I'm comfortable with the damage morph of orbs so there, again, is resource management + dps. I love having purge on a skill I would use anyway (Extended Ritual). I said 'pug healer' because a pug is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get. My elf can deliver a very respectable suite of support (dual resource skills, minor sorcery, purge, HoTs, burst heals). Her incidental dps is about 12k and can go up to 20k if less support and more damage is needed. By having strong heals and slotting jabs, she can even take a boss in her face if the tank is a fake.

I'm not arguing that templars are all awesomesauce, simply that I like using them in this role.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Templar healer too, it's just that I get annoyed that other classes offer better buffs to the group... Makes Healplars feel more like healbots or that automaton that follows you around to heal resources... Anyway I guess they don't want everyone to use templar healers (although this is the class's intention) so they keep taking our tools away. We lost PotL (in the sense that it's useless to run this guttered morph anymore), next patch we lose the aura... I wonder what's next.

Like someone else said, Templar is a ghost of its former self.

WabanakiWarrior

Athan1 wrote: »

WabanakiWarrior wrote: »

Well, you must be talking about PVE because the group utility of a magplar in PVP is hard to argue against. The Purify synergy in itself is enough to make you valuable in a team, one of your biggest ults is group synergy based (Gravity Crush), and Radiant Oppression becomes OP if you spam it on a guy while your buddies dps.
Not to mention jabs spam gets downright oppressive when combined with other melee attackers
Running with a good magplar in pvp has saved my ass more times than i can count

I was talking about healers. You're prob talking about a magplar dps.

Word, I can see your point. A dedicated Templar healer is lacking a lot of things. Lately the healers I want on my team are mag necros. AOE debuffs and crowd control, not to mention their tankiness

HoosierPappy

"AOE debuffs and crowd control, not to mention their tankiness"

Uhhh....this isnt a healer!

LOL

BXR_Lonestar

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

It’s just Minor Sorcery now. That’s still very important, since potions only give Major Sorcery. Every Magicka group needs a Templar, but it can be in any role now, since PotL isn’t needed anymore.

Sometimes the Purify synergy can also be nice.

This is true, but having healed on both a warden and a templar, I can tell you that healing on a templar is absolute easy mode compared to healing on a warden. Maybe I've just not practiced enough to feel comfortable healing on my warden the same way I am healing on my templar, but the fact that the templar has less directional-based heals and has one of the best "oh crap!" heals in the game in breath of life (good, even in its nerfed state) makes the templar irreplaceable in terms of their healing functionality (at least IMO).

Qbiken

Even in PvP magplar offers very little for a group. The best they can bring is the purge synergy from ritual and that's about it. In terms of raw healing power and utility, magcro, magden, magblade and magsorc are all superior for any kind of coordinated groupplay.

Magplar and stamplar needs first and foremost have some of their passives reworked. Passives like Master Ritualist (especially this one) and Mending (just to name a few) are super outdated and needs some serious reworks/buffs.

Athan1

Qbiken wrote: »

Even in PvP magplar offers very little for a group. The best they can bring is the purge synergy from ritual and that's about it. In terms of raw healing power and utility, magcro, magden, magblade and magsorc are all superior for any kind of coordinated groupplay.

Magplar and stamplar needs first and foremost have some of their passives reworked. Passives like Master Ritualist (especially this one) and Mending (just to name a few) are super outdated and needs some serious reworks/buffs.

I fully agree. Our passives are extremely outdated and can't keep up with the newer classes. They need to be reworked and we've been asking for this for years - I don't care if paid classes are buffed further in the process.

Bpryr_125

HoosierPappy wrote: »

"AOE debuffs and crowd control, not to mention their tankiness"

Uhhh....this isnt a healer!

LOL

But it is. The function of reducing the damage your party takes is an option of game play. Healing isn't all about Healing. Its about controlling the incoming damage of your party. Think out side the box.

SOLDIER_1stClass

Bpryr_125 wrote: »

HoosierPappy wrote: »

"AOE debuffs and crowd control, not to mention their tankiness"

Uhhh....this isnt a healer!

LOL

But it is. The function of reducing the damage your party takes is an option of game play. Healing isn't all about Healing. Its about controlling the incoming damage of your party. Think out side the box.

This! The less damage a team takes, the more they can focus on dealing damage and the more you can focus on dealing damage and healing when needed.

Mindcr0w

Athan1 wrote: »

[*] Minor Sorcery: The only real buff Templars can provide (though mag users chug potions anyway)

Given how much larger spell damage pools are going to be under CP 2.0, this buff is going to be insanely useful to have.