Proximity Detonation

maxjapank

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are about this skill. I believe it was initially made to counter large groups. But I rarely see it used by anyone, except for ball groups or a solo bomber. So rather than being a counter to large groups or ball groups, it's become perhaps the number one killer of pugs along with Vicious Death procs. I know. I know. Proxy and VD procs are fun. I don't want to take away from a solo bombers fun. But I think that organized groups are strong enough with targeted Ultis. And I've just been feeling that Proxy Det is a bit too much having 12 players using it on a 8 sec cd. I honestly don't know what the answer is though. Organized groups will always be strong and so should they be. So any thoughts?

Ranger209

Make these small modifications to Vicious Death and Proxy Det and it would be a good start. This set and skill were implemented to help deal with ball groups, but instead because of the way they work ball groups use them to their advantage.

Vicious Death
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type PvP
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Adds 1487 Spell Penetration, When you kill a Player, they violently explode for 22940 Flame Damage to all other enemies in a 14 meter radius. The radius is reduced by 1 meter for each member in your group


Proximity Detonation
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 3510 Magicka
Skill description
Activate a magical bomb on yourself that explodes after 8 seconds, dealing 636 Magic Damage to all enemies in the area. Each enemy within the bomb's radius increases the damage by 25%.
New effect
You become the center of the detonation. Removes cast time, but doubles the duration it takes to detonate.
Each group member within the bomb's radius decreases the damage done by 25%

Bump the radius of vicious death up to 14 meters from its current 4 meter radius and then have it shrink by 1 meter for each group member down to 3 meters for a full group of 12. Solo players VD radius will be 14 meters. People in a 12 man group the radius will be 3 meters.

For Proxy Det add that each group member within the radius of the bomb subtracts 25% damage from the bomb thereby negating its original effect when a bunch of tightly grouped members all try to use it together as a multi-man bombing tactic. So if 6 people are all trying to proxy bomb really tightly within each others bomb radius the bonus is negated for all of them.

jaws343

I think the reason you don't see it outside of ball groups or solo bombers is the function of the skill and limited bar space.

Ball groups can afford to drop some skills to run this because they are supporting each other with cross heals and group defensive and offensive buffs.

Solo bombers are building for mass aoe and clustered group damage, so the skill is a must.

For a random individual player, the skill has some drawbacks that don't really assist them in combat. Proxy requires a player to be in close, right on top of an enemy group. That is a difficult thing to do for a lone player or even a loose group of players. Chances are, you are dead before proxy even goes off if you aren't a bomber.

The other aspect is bar space. This skill is not going to help a random player in a smaller fight. If you are solo, or in a smaller pug group, you have to make sacrifices to slot this, and often, those sacrificed just are not worth it.

maxjapank

@Ranger209 I like the suggestions.

@jaws343 Very true.

SgtNuttzmeg

Ranger209 wrote: »

Make these small modifications to Vicious Death and Proxy Det and it would be a good start. This set and skill were implemented to help deal with ball groups, but instead because of the way they work ball groups use them to their advantage.

Vicious Death
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type PvP
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Adds 1487 Spell Penetration, When you kill a Player, they violently explode for 22940 Flame Damage to all other enemies in a 14 meter radius. The radius is reduced by 1 meter for each member in your group


Proximity Detonation
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 3510 Magicka
Skill description
Activate a magical bomb on yourself that explodes after 8 seconds, dealing 636 Magic Damage to all enemies in the area. Each enemy within the bomb's radius increases the damage by 25%.
New effect
You become the center of the detonation. Removes cast time, but doubles the duration it takes to detonate.
Each group member within the bomb's radius decreases the damage done by 25%

Bump the radius of vicious death up to 14 meters from its current 4 meter radius and then have it shrink by 1 meter for each group member down to 3 meters for a full group of 12. Solo players VD radius will be 14 meters. People in a 12 man group the radius will be 3 meters.

For Proxy Det add that each group member within the radius of the bomb subtracts 25% damage from the bomb thereby negating its original effect when a bunch of tightly grouped members all try to use it together as a multi-man bombing tactic. So if 6 people are all trying to proxy bomb really tightly within each others bomb radius the bonus is negated for all of them.

Imagine the first emp to run that version of VD with cold fire balistas. How about no.

maxjapank

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Make these small modifications to Vicious Death and Proxy Det and it would be a good start. This set and skill were implemented to help deal with ball groups, but instead because of the way they work ball groups use them to their advantage.

Vicious Death
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type PvP
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Adds 1487 Spell Penetration, When you kill a Player, they violently explode for 22940 Flame Damage to all other enemies in a 14 meter radius. The radius is reduced by 1 meter for each member in your group


Proximity Detonation
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 3510 Magicka
Skill description
Activate a magical bomb on yourself that explodes after 8 seconds, dealing 636 Magic Damage to all enemies in the area. Each enemy within the bomb's radius increases the damage by 25%.
New effect
You become the center of the detonation. Removes cast time, but doubles the duration it takes to detonate.
Each group member within the bomb's radius decreases the damage done by 25%

Bump the radius of vicious death up to 14 meters from its current 4 meter radius and then have it shrink by 1 meter for each group member down to 3 meters for a full group of 12. Solo players VD radius will be 14 meters. People in a 12 man group the radius will be 3 meters.

For Proxy Det add that each group member within the radius of the bomb subtracts 25% damage from the bomb thereby negating its original effect when a bunch of tightly grouped members all try to use it together as a multi-man bombing tactic. So if 6 people are all trying to proxy bomb really tightly within each others bomb radius the bonus is negated for all of them.

Imagine the first emp to run that version of VD with cold fire balistas. How about no.

Siege doesn't work with VD, does it?

Crash427

Ranger209 wrote: »

Make these small modifications to Vicious Death and Proxy Det and it would be a good start. This set and skill were implemented to help deal with ball groups, but instead because of the way they work ball groups use them to their advantage.

Vicious Death
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type PvP
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Adds 1487 Spell Penetration, When you kill a Player, they violently explode for 22940 Flame Damage to all other enemies in a 14 meter radius. The radius is reduced by 1 meter for each member in your group


Proximity Detonation
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 3510 Magicka
Skill description
Activate a magical bomb on yourself that explodes after 8 seconds, dealing 636 Magic Damage to all enemies in the area. Each enemy within the bomb's radius increases the damage by 25%.
New effect
You become the center of the detonation. Removes cast time, but doubles the duration it takes to detonate.
Each group member within the bomb's radius decreases the damage done by 25%

Bump the radius of vicious death up to 14 meters from its current 4 meter radius and then have it shrink by 1 meter for each group member down to 3 meters for a full group of 12. Solo players VD radius will be 14 meters. People in a 12 man group the radius will be 3 meters.

For Proxy Det add that each group member within the radius of the bomb subtracts 25% damage from the bomb thereby negating its original effect when a bunch of tightly grouped members all try to use it together as a multi-man bombing tactic. So if 6 people are all trying to proxy bomb really tightly within each others bomb radius the bonus is negated for all of them.

I don't think more calculations are what the game needs.

Proxy det does a pitiful amount of damage when it only hits one enemy. In other words, 99% of the time if you die to proxy det it's your own fault. The real problem with bomb groups at the moment is death recaps with 5 grav crushes.

hexentb16_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are about this skill. I believe it was initially made to counter large groups. But I rarely see it used by anyone, except for ball groups or a solo bomber. So rather than being a counter to large groups or ball groups, it's become perhaps the number one killer of pugs along with Vicious Death procs. I know. I know. Proxy and VD procs are fun. I don't want to take away from a solo bombers fun. But I think that organized groups are strong enough with targeted Ultis. And I've just been feeling that Proxy Det is a bit too much having 12 players using it on a 8 sec cd. I honestly don't know what the answer is though. Organized groups will always be strong and so should they be. So any thoughts?

I think both Vicious Death and Proximity detonation should be removed or altered so that bombing no longer exists.

I used to be a bomber. A really "good" one! Before my 1 year break everyone knew and hated me for bombing them so much.

Now I'm 100% against bombing. Its great if all one cares about is easy kills and rewards. I however have come to enjoy the challenge of pvp thanks to proc sets now being such a big part of the meta. I thought getting a buttload of easy AP by bombing people but the real fun is in overcoming challenges and learning from losses. Or in other words, pvp is more fun when you actually earn the win without cheap tactics.

Edit.
I actually run a small pvp guild and don't let my members roll with us if they're bombing. Nothing ruins a fun evenly matched battle like an ally bombing the enemy.

Araneae6537

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are about this skill. I believe it was initially made to counter large groups. But I rarely see it used by anyone, except for ball groups or a solo bomber. So rather than being a counter to large groups or ball groups, it's become perhaps the number one killer of pugs along with Vicious Death procs. I know. I know. Proxy and VD procs are fun. I don't want to take away from a solo bombers fun. But I think that organized groups are strong enough with targeted Ultis. And I've just been feeling that Proxy Det is a bit too much having 12 players using it on a 8 sec cd. I honestly don't know what the answer is though. Organized groups will always be strong and so should they be. So any thoughts?

I think both Vicious Death and Proximity detonation should be removed or altered so that bombing no longer exists.

I used to be a bomber. A really "good" one! Before my 1 year break everyone knew and hated me for bombing them so much.

Now I'm 100% against bombing. Its great if all one cares about is easy kills and rewards. I however have come to enjoy the challenge of pvp thanks to proc sets now being such a big part of the meta. I thought getting a buttload of easy AP by bombing people but the real fun is in overcoming challenges and learning from losses. Or in other words, pvp is more fun when you actually earn the win without cheap tactics.

Edit.
I actually run a small pvp guild and don't let my members roll with us if they're bombing. Nothing ruins a fun evenly matched battle like an ally bombing the enemy.

I’d say that the current meta proc sets like Crimson Twilight are much more a cheap tactic. They can do a lot of damage without any effort on the player’s part. Bombers can be frustrating but can be countered in part by not grouping closely and I appreciate that they have specialized their build that and it takes skill, timing and situational awareness to actually be effective. I appreciate it all the more as I try to make one myself and so far have yet to do any significant damage with it, much less defeat anyone!

etchedpixels

There has to be some balance to stop tight groups. Magicka detonation is also used in PvE envrionments (it's a fun tank trash skill)

wazzz56

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are about this skill. I believe it was initially made to counter large groups. But I rarely see it used by anyone, except for ball groups or a solo bomber. So rather than being a counter to large groups or ball groups, it's become perhaps the number one killer of pugs along with Vicious Death procs. I know. I know. Proxy and VD procs are fun. I don't want to take away from a solo bombers fun. But I think that organized groups are strong enough with targeted Ultis. And I've just been feeling that Proxy Det is a bit too much having 12 players using it on a 8 sec cd. I honestly don't know what the answer is though. Organized groups will always be strong and so should they be. So any thoughts?

I think both Vicious Death and Proximity detonation should be removed or altered so that bombing no longer exists.

I used to be a bomber. A really "good" one! Before my 1 year break everyone knew and hated me for bombing them so much.

Now I'm 100% against bombing. Its great if all one cares about is easy kills and rewards. I however have come to enjoy the challenge of pvp thanks to proc sets now being such a big part of the meta. I thought getting a buttload of easy AP by bombing people but the real fun is in overcoming challenges and learning from losses. Or in other words, pvp is more fun when you actually earn the win without cheap tactics.

Edit.
I actually run a small pvp guild and don't let my members roll with us if they're bombing. Nothing ruins a fun evenly matched battle like an ally bombing the enemy.

so you don't find a play style enjoyable so you want it removed? Kinda Odd

Goregrinder

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are about this skill. I believe it was initially made to counter large groups. But I rarely see it used by anyone, except for ball groups or a solo bomber. So rather than being a counter to large groups or ball groups, it's become perhaps the number one killer of pugs along with Vicious Death procs. I know. I know. Proxy and VD procs are fun. I don't want to take away from a solo bombers fun. But I think that organized groups are strong enough with targeted Ultis. And I've just been feeling that Proxy Det is a bit too much having 12 players using it on a 8 sec cd. I honestly don't know what the answer is though. Organized groups will always be strong and so should they be. So any thoughts?

I think both Vicious Death and Proximity detonation should be removed or altered so that bombing no longer exists.

I used to be a bomber. A really "good" one! Before my 1 year break everyone knew and hated me for bombing them so much.

Now I'm 100% against bombing. Its great if all one cares about is easy kills and rewards. I however have come to enjoy the challenge of pvp thanks to proc sets now being such a big part of the meta. I thought getting a buttload of easy AP by bombing people but the real fun is in overcoming challenges and learning from losses. Or in other words, pvp is more fun when you actually earn the win without cheap tactics.

Edit.
I actually run a small pvp guild and don't let my members roll with us if they're bombing. Nothing ruins a fun evenly matched battle like an ally bombing the enemy.

I don't think we should be removing playstyle options from players, even if you personally no longer like a particular playstyle. If people love bombing, let them bomb. If people love being the fastest person on a server as a Magsorc with shields, let them. The worst thing that can happen to ESO PVP is when there are only 2 or 3 playstyle option to choose from and that's it. Then everyone is running around with the same setup, same build, same skills, same tactics, etc. Not fun for everyone. And that's the important thing, PVP should be fun for everyone, not just fun for you.

Waffennacht

Goregrinder wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are about this skill. I believe it was initially made to counter large groups. But I rarely see it used by anyone, except for ball groups or a solo bomber. So rather than being a counter to large groups or ball groups, it's become perhaps the number one killer of pugs along with Vicious Death procs. I know. I know. Proxy and VD procs are fun. I don't want to take away from a solo bombers fun. But I think that organized groups are strong enough with targeted Ultis. And I've just been feeling that Proxy Det is a bit too much having 12 players using it on a 8 sec cd. I honestly don't know what the answer is though. Organized groups will always be strong and so should they be. So any thoughts?

I think both Vicious Death and Proximity detonation should be removed or altered so that bombing no longer exists.

I used to be a bomber. A really "good" one! Before my 1 year break everyone knew and hated me for bombing them so much.

Now I'm 100% against bombing. Its great if all one cares about is easy kills and rewards. I however have come to enjoy the challenge of pvp thanks to proc sets now being such a big part of the meta. I thought getting a buttload of easy AP by bombing people but the real fun is in overcoming challenges and learning from losses. Or in other words, pvp is more fun when you actually earn the win without cheap tactics.

Edit.
I actually run a small pvp guild and don't let my members roll with us if they're bombing. Nothing ruins a fun evenly matched battle like an ally bombing the enemy.

I don't think we should be removing playstyle options from players, even if you personally no longer like a particular playstyle. If people love bombing, let them bomb. If people love being the fastest person on a server as a Magsorc with shields, let them. The worst thing that can happen to ESO PVP is when there are only 2 or 3 playstyle option to choose from and that's it. Then everyone is running around with the same setup, same build, same skills, same tactics, etc. Not fun for everyone. And that's the important thing, PVP should be fun for everyone, not just fun for you.

Took the words outta my mouth