PVE players need to stop demanding MYM caters to them.

wolfbone

seriously, seen a lot of people on here demanding that MYM and cyrodill/imp city catered to them as pve players and hpw they think it's unfair that it's a pvp event.
we only get a at most, 2 pvp events. if you dont like the fact it's pvp, then play it. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

FrancisCrawford

wolfbone wrote: »

seriously, seen a lot of people on here demanding that MYM and cyrodill/imp city catered to them as pve players and hpw they think it's unfair that it's a pvp event.
we only get a at most, 2 pvp events. if you dont like the fact it's pvp, then play it. [snip]

With a little care they can be treated as PvE anyway. For Cyrodiil, just do town quests when an alliance has clear control of a town (and your character is of that alliance). And/or do scouting quests.

IC quests are a little harder to insulate, but there still are things you can do, like doing them before the event (a little late for that strategy now), playing at an odd time, or using a thief character who's good at avoiding combat.

Sarannah

PvP takes WAY too much time for some players. Quests you could normally complete in 2 minutes, suddenly take over an hour.

Now I don't think they should cater to non-PvPers too much. But ZOS should put outfit pages in the midyear boxes, and only make us require one PvP activity for all three tickets. The way it is now, forces non-PvPers into a PvP zone they do not want to be in. Both with the IC daily requirement for a ticket, as well as outfit pages only dropping from IC bosses.

DarcyMardin

I’m not complaining. I always have a blast at MYM, even though I’m terrible at PvP. In Cyrodiil, the expanse of territory is so wide that it’s fairly easy to avoid any fights I don’t want to be part of. I rarely even see another player when doing a scouting mission. This morning I spent a pleasant time fishing on a beautiful lake in enemy territory without meeting anyone at all (I even got lucky and scored 2 perfect roe!).

In Imperial City, I expect to be ganked, and part of the goal for me is trying to avoid the (human) enemy fire. But since I don’t collect Telvar stones, I don’t care if I lose them. I go back to base so often that I never have many on me anyway. If one district is overrun, I can usually meet the quest objectives of a different district. Getting a single quest done every day is pretty easy.

In short, I wouldn’t want to do this everyday, which is why I don’t PvP, but for a couple of weeks it’s fun.

DocFrost72

Worth noting;

Not once during those "pve" events can another player actively stop you from achieving your goal.

UGotBenched91

My stance is that it’s a PvP event. You want to live and be able to play well enough for easy tickets? Make a character for PvP and use it. Just as I would need (and have) made characters built for pve for the pve events and content.

VaranisArano

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Worth noting;

Not once during those "pve" events can another player actively stop you from achieving your goal.

Also worth noting: stopping the enemy from achieving their goal is the entire point of PVP.

That may not be a very comfortable thought for PVE players used to working together with other players - it wasn't comfortable for me when I started to PVP. Nevertheless, that's the nature of PVP by design and definition. ZOS is not ignorant of the nature of PVP. Nor have they somehow missed that PVE players don't like it (though many still head to PvPvE zones for their event tickets, natch). Despite the complaints, ZOS continues running Midyear Mayhem and the Imperial City Celebration.

Kiralyn2000

It's a PvP event. I don't do PvP. So, when it happens when I'm playing, I just skip it. There's generally been enough tickets anyway. /shrug

seriously, seen a lot of people on here demanding that ...

And is it really "a lot of people"? Or is it just a small vocal crowd (on both sides) rehashing the same thread every time MYM comes around?

(and did we really need a second thread for the same back-n-forth to happen in?)


edit: my general view on the topic is that I think PvE and PvP games would be better off entirely separate. So that they can be properly developed & balanced for their goal, rather than these unfocused mish-mash games that just anger people in both directions. I've seen it for decades on the forums for every PvE/PvP game that I've played - no one is ever really satisfied with the 'balance' patches that screw over one side of the equation in an attempt to fix the other.

Minyassa

This would not be as big a deal if the choices for PvE players weren't:

1. Do something you think is horrible, stressful, and potentially impossible to complete if you have a time constraint on your available gameplay, or
2. Miss out on limited event rewards that might be crucial to complete other events' rewards, such as upgrade materials, thereby screwing up your ability complete a collectible even if you complete all non-PvP events.

What kind of choice is that? You HAVE to do the PvP event or you never get to finish upgrading your pet/mount/whatever? What would solve this problem once and for all is to not have event-exclusive upgrade rewards, so people COULD afford to just sit an event out without feeling like they are destroying the efforts of all other event goals for the rest of the year. Instead of offering one upgrade item per event, perhaps do it as a quarterly thing with all events taking place during a quarter offering the same ongoing collectible parts, and leave the unique event-themed cosmetics (i.e. the motif pages) as exclusive to the event.

spartaxoxo

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

My stance is that it’s a PvP event. You want to live and be able to play well enough for easy tickets? Make a character for PvP and use it. Just as I would need (and have) made characters built for pve for the pve events and content.

There isn't any pve events you need to build for, nor can others impede your goal. Idc about it being pvp but it's pretty ridiculous to compare the two when when we're talking difficulty that far surpasses anything a pve event requires. You could do the pve events naked. That you chose to make one for the giggles does not mean you needed to, not a single pve has necessitated it. The same is not true for pvp unless the person can play during non peak hours.

CrashTest

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Worth noting;

Not once during those "pve" events can another player actively stop you from achieving your goal.

Actually they can. If it's a trial or group dungeon, they can troll the run, kick you from group, or just be unable to clear. If it's something solo, they can camp a spawn you need.

spartaxoxo

CrashTest wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Worth noting;

Not once during those "pve" events can another player actively stop you from achieving your goal.

Actually they can. If it's a trial or group dungeon, they can troll the run, kick you from group, or just be unable to clear. If it's something solo, they can camp a spawn you need.

You never need a trial to get a ticket. And spawn camping does not prevent you from getting elim credit.

FantasticFreddie

A very simple solution would be increase the pvp specific rewards and not do even tickets.
Seriously-- do double telvar and AP, make the reward boxes and turning in quests have a chance to drop the tri stat rune and trait materials like dawn prism, and leave tickets out of it.
Then the pvpers get actually useful rewards and the pve crowd doesn't feel the need to try and force themselves in.
Mym is a bit dumb because it is almost a pve event anyways. How do you get tickets? By doing QUESTS. And basically all of the IC quests are strictly pve

CrashTest

spartaxoxo wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Worth noting;

Not once during those "pve" events can another player actively stop you from achieving your goal.

Actually they can. If it's a trial or group dungeon, they can troll the run, kick you from group, or just be unable to clear. If it's something solo, they can camp a spawn you need.

You never need a trial to get a ticket. And spawn camping does not prevent you from getting elim credit.

I said trials or group dungeon, not just trials. And camping spawns prevents you from getting that spawn if it's dead and gone when you get there.

ETA: I'm a PvEr. Trials and dungeons are my thing.

VaranisArano

Minyassa wrote: »

This would not be as big a deal if the choices for PvE players weren't:

1. Do something you think is horrible, stressful, and potentially impossible to complete if you have a time constraint on your available gameplay, or
2. Miss out on limited event rewards that might be crucial to complete other events' rewards, such as upgrade materials, thereby screwing up your ability complete a collectible even if you complete all non-PvP events.

What kind of choice is that? You HAVE to do the PvP event or you never get to finish upgrading your pet/mount/whatever? What would solve this problem once and for all is to not have event-exclusive upgrade rewards, so people COULD afford to just sit an event out without feeling like they are destroying the efforts of all other event goals for the rest of the year. Instead of offering one upgrade item per event, perhaps do it as a quarterly thing with all events taking place during a quarter offering the same ongoing collectible parts, and leave the unique event-themed cosmetics (i.e. the motif pages) as exclusive to the event.

I'll start out by saying that it's okay to not like PVP. I started out not liking it, then loving it, but I fully recognize that some people just never enjoy it. That's okay!

However, ZOS demonstrably aren't convinced by arguments of "I hate X content, so I shouldn't be forced to do it for event rewards."

Instead, ZOS likes the "Do ALL the content, or miss out on ALL the rewards" method. Events are a marketing tool and a celebration of the game. ZOS seems to view it as "A lot of players don't enjoy getting out if their comfort zone, but only a few will genuinely sit out the event." And that's what we see here with all PVP events: A lot of PVEers complaining that they were forced to PVP, but a great many of them do head into Cyrodiil and IC.

Non-MYM examples of players complaining about being "forced" to do content they dislike during events:
1. There are a number of roleplayers who eschew the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood events. When we had those events, yes, there were complaints about how goody-two-shoes players are excluded. Especially during the year MYM was canceled and we had a second TG/DB event.
2. The Anniversary Event features every daily in the game, so naturally no one is "forced" to PVP and there should be no complaints, right? LOL, no. Since the Cyrodiil Town dailies are designed for the risk to come from players, they are very quick and easy. The result is many players rushing to Cyrodiil to max out their daily reward boxes, then complaining when PVP happens in a PvPvE zone. No one "forced" them... they still complain.
3. Imperial City event also features the 2 DLC dungeons. It astonished me how many players complain about hating IC PVP during the event when they have a PVE-only option! rather they seem to pick the IC dailies because its quicker or easier than the dungeons, even though they could avoid all risk of hated PVP.
4. Well, maybe that's explained by Witches Festival and the Undaunted Festival, whose group content portions come under criticism by players who don't like group content.

When I look at that list, I note that if ZOS listened to all the complaints of people who only want event rewards to come from content they like, we'd lose both PVP events and several PVE events.

I'm not sure why it seems to be that PVE-only players seem to be the most prone to insisting that ZOS should make all the event rewards accessible on through the specific PVE content they enjoy, but whyever that happens, ZOS seems more interested in getting players to experience different areas of the game than in catering to them.

Personally, I sympathize with feeling the "fear of missing out". I let Marketing use that to drive me into content that was outside of my comfort zone. Some of it I enjoyed, some of it I tolerate, and to some it I say "Eff you, Marketing, you couldn't bribe me back in there for anything." Its up to each player to determine what they are willing to put up with and what they are willing to miss out on.

spartaxoxo

CrashTest wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Worth noting;

Not once during those "pve" events can another player actively stop you from achieving your goal.

Actually they can. If it's a trial or group dungeon, they can troll the run, kick you from group, or just be unable to clear. If it's something solo, they can camp a spawn you need.

You never need a trial to get a ticket. And spawn camping does not prevent you from getting elim credit.

I said trials or group dungeon, not just trials. And camping spawns prevents you from getting that spawn if it's dead and gone when you get there.

ETA: I'm a PvEr. Trials and dungeons are my thing.

Adding "or dungeons" doesn't make the inclusion of trials anymore correct. There exists no pve event that requires trials for event tickets. Not one. Dungeons they have but it doesn't require the group finder and many people, pvp players included, just solo fungal grotto 1 on normal to get those with absolutely zero risk of impediment.

There also exists zero pve events that require something that can be spawn camped before the people who are already there can at least get a light attack in and that is the only thing required to get event tickets as spawn camping does NOT prevent you from getting tickets.

It's a total false equivalency to claim that pve events have delayed or denied progress like pvp events. In pvp events, the entire point is denial. Your objective is to deny people their quest goals to fulfill your own. So denial occurs in a regular basis and it is NOT completely in your control whether you can be denied, the same is NOT true of pve.

Jaimeh

VaranisArano wrote: »

Personally, I sympathize with feeling the "fear of missing out". I let Marketing use that to drive me into content that was outside of my comfort zone. Some of it I enjoyed, some of it I tolerate, and to some it I say "Eff you, Marketing, you couldn't bribe me back in there for anything." Its up to each player to determine what they are willing to put up with and what they are willing to miss out on.

This, plus ZOS gave the option of buying the tickets from the store for those who absolutely refused to get them otherwise. And with the crown gifting system you can get them for gold as well. But honestly, even if you hate pvp, there's many non-fight options to get the tickets: for Cyro scouting missions (you just ride to the place, sneak and complete it, you can even use invisibility potions on the way), for IC it's more dangerous, but before event started players could do the dailies on multiple toons on literally empty IC instances, and hand them in daily after the event began). This is not so much the case with pve events, where there's no other choices. It's a pain not to get all the things, but if you want them you have to do all the things, otherwise it's entitlement.

VaranisArano

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Mym is a bit dumb because it is almost a pve event anyways. How do you get tickets? By doing QUESTS. And basically all of the IC quests are strictly pve

Maybe you get Cyrodiil tickets through town quests.

There's always "Kill X Nightblades/DKs/players", "Capture X Keep/Resource/Elder Scroll" for those players more inclined to PVP.

And if you are at all inclined to play PVP, no, MYM is not almost a PVE event. Its a time for huge battles and glorious double AP ticks. In fact, its the one event that requires the risk of PVP.

ghost_bg_ESO

for me it seems that "myth" of pvp scares people more (and couple of deaths at entering first time).
i'm pve in eso, and by observation i'm doing fine with my pve gear, finishing daily at cyrodil and ic both for 15- 20 min, with the same habitude from pve - "if it shots to you try to kill it", if i die - ok someone get desirable point.
at the same time i'm seeing in every event experienced pve and pvp players taking care for newbies and first timers.

CrashTest

spartaxoxo wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Worth noting;

Not once during those "pve" events can another player actively stop you from achieving your goal.

Actually they can. If it's a trial or group dungeon, they can troll the run, kick you from group, or just be unable to clear. If it's something solo, they can camp a spawn you need.

You never need a trial to get a ticket. And spawn camping does not prevent you from getting elim credit.

I said trials or group dungeon, not just trials. And camping spawns prevents you from getting that spawn if it's dead and gone when you get there.

ETA: I'm a PvEr. Trials and dungeons are my thing.

Adding "or dungeons" doesn't make the inclusion of trials anymore correct. There exists no pve event that requires trials for event tickets. Not one. Dungeons they have but it doesn't require the group finder and many people, pvp players included, just solo fungal grotto 1 on normal to get those with absolutely zero risk of impediment.

There also exists zero pve events that require something that can be spawn camped before the people who are already there can at least get a light attack in and that is the only thing required to get event tickets as spawn camping does NOT prevent you from getting tickets.

It's a total false equivalency to claim that pve events have delayed or denied progress like pvp events. In pvp events, the entire point is denial. Your objective is to deny people their quest goals to fulfill your own. So denial occurs in a regular basis and it is NOT completely in your control whether you can be denied, the same is NOT true of pve.

The argument made was there's no PvE event where another player can prevent you from obtaining goals. I addressed that by saying you can indeed be prevented in PvE events by other players, and I laid out how.

Your examples aren't countering anything I said.

Starlock

I'm not one to harp on the problems of the event, but there are very valid criticisms especially now that events have been monetized.

Also to point out - Midyear Mayhem is not a PvP event it is a PvPvE event. I'd prefer it were a true PvP event - earn nothing and diddly from any PvE quests (all the town quests, all the IC dailies) - to really, really put the focus on PvP. And I say this as someone who hates the PvP in this game.

CrashTest

One thing that's never mentioned is it's not just PvPers attacking at quest areas and preventing quest completion. It's also PvE questers.

I know this bc I'm a PvEr who's an utter potato at PvP, and I can often kill attackers. If they were actual PvPers, I'd be dead before I even knew what hit me bc my impromptu event build is made for fun not for fighting anyone who's actually built for PvP.

Another dead giveaway is when I see Aegis and Slayer on players lol.

Lady_Sleepless

With Imperial City, I've found a lot of PvE players just don't want to even try. They don't cloak/use invisibility potions, don't stick to their own alliance areas and simply expect that they won't die.
You have to have some sense and take care of yourself.

Smitch_59

I simply ignore events like MYM. i can live without the tickets. Farming mats is much better overland right now 'cause everyone is in Cyrodiil. Y'all have fun!

VaranisArano

Lady_Sleepless wrote: »

With Imperial City, I've found a lot of PvE players just don't want to even try. They don't cloak/use invisibility potions, don't stick to their own alliance areas and simply expect that they won't die.
You have to have some sense and take care of yourself.

I PVP, and my favorite way to do the IC quests is to put on a PVE sprinter build and just run for my life. It works great for NPC enemies and quest objectives.

Against players, LOL, I'm pretty sure a snowflake in hell lasts longer than me. But then, I also don't complain when, not if, I die.

Lady_Sleepless

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lady_Sleepless wrote: »

With Imperial City, I've found a lot of PvE players just don't want to even try. They don't cloak/use invisibility potions, don't stick to their own alliance areas and simply expect that they won't die.
You have to have some sense and take care of yourself.

I PVP, and my favorite way to do the IC quests is to put on a PVE sprinter build and just run for my life. It works great for NPC enemies and quest objectives.

Against players, LOL, I'm pretty sure a snowflake in hell lasts longer than me. But then, I also don't complain when, not if, I die.

That's certainly one way to do it!

TequilaFire

I don't see any regular PvP players camping the turn in points, but I have seen a lot of obvious PvE players trying to gank each other. Kind of cute, lol
All the regular PvP players are too busy farming emperor .

jaws343

They should honestly just go the full step for MYM and force only player kills to reward tickets. Like every 10 kills in either IC or Cyro gives you one ticket up to 3 per day. Actually force pvp for tickets and leave the quests for box farming only.

SeaGtGruff

wolfbone wrote: »

seriously, seen a lot of people on here demanding that MYM and cyrodill/imp city catered to them as pve players and hpw they think it's unfair that it's a pvp event.
we only get a at most, 2 pvp events.

The MYM event has been held twice a year lately, so technically there are 3 PvP events-- still a lot less than PvE events.

I've been thoroughly enjoying the MYM and IC events, and I far prefer PvE. In fact, most of what I do during these PvP events is PvE, because I try to leave other players alone unless they attack me first. Edit: But the PvP aspects don't scare me like they used to, and I find these PvP events to be a lot more lively (and deadly) than all of the PvE events. I wouldn't mind it if they held MYM four times a year instead of just twice!

zvavi wrote: »

PvE-ers on the other side, dont get me started, they will zerg you down and chase you with 20 people to kill you even if you have no intention of fighting the zerg.

And how do you know they are all PvE players? If you were to ask the PvE players, they would probably claim that it's the other way around-- a zerg of 20 PvP players hunting down lone PvE questers who are too terrified to do anything but desperately try to run away. Which assertion is true? I don't know, but I imagine that both have some validity to them.

Jacozilla

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

My stance is that it’s a PvP event. You want to live and be able to play well enough for easy tickets? Make a character for PvP and use it. Just as I would need (and have) made characters built for pve for the pve events and content.

It's a PVP and PVE event, not just a PVP-only event - a pretty important distinction.

If it were PVP only as you are trying to suggest, then ZOS wouldn't award tickets for town quests, IC quests, etc - only upon a player kill...you know the VP in PVP.

MYM is a mix of:
a) PVP only via BGs as your option to earn tickets and reward boxes

b) PVE with low chance if any to sometimes to encounter resisting players while doing scouting board or town quests in controlled alliance towns

c) fairly decent mix of PVE and PVP potential doing IC content and quests

[Edit to remove bait]

Iccotak

wolfbone wrote: »

seriously, seen a lot of people on here demanding that MYM and cyrodill/imp city catered to them as pve players and hpw they think it's unfair that it's a pvp event.
we only get a at most, 2 pvp events. if you dont like the fact it's pvp, then play it. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

my god it's almost like the devs are encouraging the players to try other content - god forbid that people try something new instead of staying in a bubble