Necromancer and Warden clunky gameplay?

Uvi_AUT

So, here is the thing. Ive been playing Warden since Morrowind and switched to Necro when that got released.
I recently came back to my original classes, a Nightblade and a Sorcerer.
I suddenly realized something. Compared to the Vanilla-Classes the new Classes feel very clunky and odd in combat, while the Vanillaclasses are very Fluid and intuitive.
I think it has something to do with all the delayed damagespells like SubAssault and Blastbones. Plus the whole corpse-mechanic with Necromancer.
The other classbased skills also just dont feel as good as the old ones. I cant put my finger on that, it just doesnt feel fluid.

Does anyone else feel like that too?

Vevvev

Different devs came up with the implementations of the classes. If you look at some of the newest changes to class kits like what happened with Stone Giant for Dragonknights you'll begin to see the clunkiness in the redesign of that skill. This combat team focuses more on balance and what ifs rather than making things fluid and fun to use, which is why you see some here saying they do "spreadsheet balancing". There is some benefit though as we have gotten some neat things out of it like with Mend Wounds, Imbue Weapon/Crystal Weapon, and the corpse mechanic of necromancer, but they just can't seem to get them to mesh well with the game. Its a different design philosophy entirely which is why there is a clear difference in how the newer things operate compared to the old, and also why we get threads talking about how "clunky" things feel.

UntilValhalla13

Necros are, for sure, the most clunkiest class in the game. I hate dpsing on them.

tsaescishoeshiner

Warden feels very smooth to me because Fissure destroys everything in front of you every 3 seconds. It actually gives the class a rhythm and consistency to me

Necro is different because Blastbones requires a target and has some travel time, and Shock Tether requires a corpse and only deals damage in between you and the target. And then the summons have 16 second durations instead of 10 or 20, which I find awkward, But I'm not super good at rotations, anyway.

I've heard some people say they like necro because it rewards you for being precise and doing everything just right. So far, can't relate. But it's clearly a high-performing class. The Colossus nerf impacted the one part of the class I could reliably pull off well lol

SidraWillowsky

The Magwarden rotation is the smoothest in the game for me personally... Shalks is timed perfectly to get two skills in in between casts, and the class skills flow really nicely and the DoTs are timed well. I have a lot more trouble with NB and Templar personally.

If you think about it, most classes have the kind of skill where you cast it and there's a delay before it does damage (Templar's Backlash) or has some sort of requirement before it can be used (NB's Grim Focus). I like the Shalks because you don't need a target to cast it- use the skill, wait a few seconds, and it goes off no matter what.

Necromancer (especially Magcro) is a *** clunky mess though, so I agree with you on that. BB only casts if you're directly targeting an enemy, so on my magcro I oftentimes miss the cast if an enemy moves even an inch. And don't get me started on the skull spammable...

Uvi_AUT

Did some further testing on Warden. It does smooth out with a little muscle memory, I agree, especially with Cliff Diver as spammable (for some reason Wrecking Blow just doesnt line up), but still nothing compared to Nightblades or Sorcerers.

Scardan

No, I feel that this is 100% subjective topic.
Necro does not feel clunky to me, but Nightblade . Especially bow nightblade.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I agree with Necromancers being clunky and for me and not fun to play at all. Not only does the majority of their damage rely on the infamously derpy and indecisive blastbones, but the shocking tether can jerk your characters away from the target intended, and the ricochet skull... ugh. I really hate weaving that skull. It's slow and the animations don't work well with weaving for me. In summary, they're slow and gimmicky, in my opinion. Wardens, on the other hand, do rely on sub assault, but the rest of their skills weave quite beautifully. I think what really irks me is that both of the paid classes play almost exactly the same (speaking in terms of magicka... both delayed burst based with two skills in between), but the older of the two is far superior in terms of enjoyment.

SOLDIER_1stClass

I find their gameplay fine. And less tedious to pump out damage and survive compared to the other classes with the only vanilla classes capable of doing it as easy being Sorc and DRK.

If anything most of the vanilla classes need buffs to properly compete

Starlight_Whisper

Wardens compare nothing to how clunky nercomancer is.

Yamenstein

I love necro, but agree 💯 they clunky. I hope they are looked into, but I don't see it happening anytime soon

Integral1900

To be honest, if I could take beckoning armour off my necromancer and give it to my dragon knight I would retire the necromancer entirely. Chains on a dragon knight may look funky but compared to beckoning armour they feel bargain basement

For me the necromancer was a big disappointment all round, the only thing I wanted from that class was the ability to have actual skeletal warriors at my command. To be honest I would’ve been happy if it were just been one, a hero as an ultimate that would follow you around and then automatically despawn in town so as not to freak out the authorities. What we got doesn’t feel anything like a necromancer

The warden is even worse. It was sold as being a kind of weaponised storyteller, but it is nothing of the sort. Just a random grab bag of nature and frost skills with a bear that dies if a mouse breaks wind nearby... assuming it’s not already stuck in the ceiling. Nothing about the way that class plays in game has anything to do with storytelling!?

divnyi

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

I think it has something to do with all the delayed damagespells like SubAssault and Blastbones.

It's literally the main reason to play the classes in PvP.

I don't feel like warden is clunky. To me, it is one of the easiest and smoothest classes. Maybe healing line abilities would see some changes, last ability is very bad mechanically.

Necromancer tho is clunky. Bomb skills is good, but I don't understand why it can't be self-buff, why it *needs* targeting? Corpse siphon (damage & healing) abilities are just bad and should be replaced. They are getting screwed by movement and isn't funny.

Like many people say, what we expect from necromancer is raising corpses. Many corpses, not one weak archer and suicidal bomber. Like, melee skeletons or zombies (like, not one, but many). They shouldn't even do a lot of damage, maybe apply snare to be annoying. I would trade those siphon abilities for corpse-raising abilities any time of the day. I bet it will make many people happy.

Destai

I couldn't do the necromancer, even after maxing out his class skill lines. I straight up deleted him. Constantly felt like I was tripping over the controls.

My main is a warden, and when played as an archer, it's fun. The problem I find with the classes in general in this game is there's no easy way to determine what your spammable should be. Compared to GW2, where you know skill 1 and 2 are your most frequently used, this game seems disjointed. I get the impression they want the classes and weapons to have a lot intersectionality and have a lot of build freedom, but it's just janky at times.

Ryuvain

Necro definitely clunky but warden isnt. Shalks speaks for itself.

Blastbones decides to stand there or run around something a lot meaning you have to improvise a ton. Also tethers.

Bobby_V_Rockit

My magic bee flinging lizard healer feels smoother than any other classes I’ve played, and that’s all of them except Templar because I think jabs is dirty

Snow_White

I’ve been playing nightblades since I started (2018) and can’t say I agree. For a change I rolled a warden at the beginning of New Life and I’ve found it to be super smooth compared to what I’m used to. Less need to micromanage ability timers and no need to time the ultimate.