ETA on when healing is reverted in cyrodiil?

Stensaxpannk

Hey!

As the title says do we know when we will be able to heal all of the same faction again?

Thanks

Ellimist_Entreri

Looking forward to this reversion as well!

SgtNuttzmeg

It's not. They are only removing the restriction for the test they announced.

Stensaxpannk

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

It's not. They are only removing the restriction for the test they announced.

Are you realy sure?

Might be wrong but it didint sound like it when they said it?

Starshadw

It sounded like it wasn't just for the test from the way @ZOS_GinaBruno worded it, but maybe she can come by and clarify when she has time.

Sandman929

It was worded a little weird. They mentioned right alongside the test, but they also said they "listened to feedback" and didn't see enough benefit in terms of performance, so it sounded to me like the healing reversion wasn't linked to the test.

NotTaylorSwift

I’m pretty sure it is only being reverted for the duration of the test... and I hope it is.

Kwoung

Sandman929 wrote: »

It was worded a little weird. They mentioned right alongside the test, but they also said they "listened to feedback" and didn't see enough benefit in terms of performance, so it sounded to me like the healing reversion wasn't linked to the test.

I agree. While they mentioned that it would be reverted when they implemented the new test, it sounding like the reversion would be permanent, since they admitted it made little difference, they listened to feedback on the forums and understand how players hate it.

JkahrrRadnar

If it's not reverted permanently, the least they should do is post a full explanation for

- why exactly support players were eliminated from AvAvA gameplay in the first place
- which performance improvement/"behavioural change" happened over the last x months that justifies keeping the change despite clear community feedback
- what their plan is moving forward to counteract the decline of PvP playerbase and put casual/new/solo players in a better position vs organized (ball) groups
- what they envision the future of the support role to be in this game overall*

*Healers have never been needed in normal PvE overland content, they're superfluous in most dungeons except some vet/trials and are now barred from Cyro PvP unless they accept drastic QoL loss/gameplay restrictions. Unless the goal is to make support role only viable for vet dungeon/trial or guild pvp, I don't see the way forward here. It would be interesting to hear the devs perspective.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Stensaxpannk wrote: »

Hey!

As the title says do we know when we will be able to heal all of the same faction again?

Thanks

around mid-feb.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7093521/#Comment_7093521

Grimlok_S

Darn. I quite liked my healing ward/Regen sticking to me when I needed it.

NotTaylorSwift

JkahrrRadnar wrote: »

If it's not reverted permanently, the least they should do is post a full explanation for

- why exactly support players were eliminated from AvAvA gameplay in the first place
- which performance improvement/"behavioural change" happened over the last x months that justifies keeping the change despite clear community feedback
- what their plan is moving forward to counteract the decline of PvP playerbase and put casual/new/solo players in a better position vs organized (ball) groups
- what they envision the future of the support role to be in this game overall*

*Healers have never been needed in normal PvE overland content, they're superfluous in most dungeons except some vet/trials and are now barred from Cyro PvP unless they accept drastic QoL loss/gameplay restrictions. Unless the goal is to make support role only viable for vet dungeon/trial or guild pvp, I don't see the way forward here. It would be interesting to hear the devs perspective.

What does this even mean? How are supports eliminated from cyro? I play support/heal mostly in cyrodiil and know other people who also do. And LOTS of people liked the heal/group changes. The only feedback you hear on the forums is people saying they don’t like it because people who do are busy playing the game.

And I’m sure the behavioural changes meant 2 groups of 24 players all stacking in one keep.... true it still happens especially now in mym but players are generally more spread out as there are more smaller groups instead of just 2 or 3 massive ones. I also personally think performance has slightly improved, at least on ravenwatch pc eu. It can still be bad at prime time ofc and surprisingly it is pretty bad now in mym whereas last year performance was really good, but I really think it is not as bad as before... even if it’s just a tiny bit.

Also if people REALLY wanna heal whilst ungrouped, which I still don’t know why people wanna do this so badly, there are actually still a few skills which still target ungrouped players. Probably unintended but still. Warden polar wind + harvest synergy (not 100% sure if the synergy actually works tho) Nightblade healthy offering, psijic heal skill, undaunted blood altar, chokethorn monster set etc.

And the best thing for new players to do is join a group... if they happen to be healers then perfect. Or else they run around like they’re lost, not knowing where to go next.

superbiquette

maybe the best thing for new players is skill working and feel free to join or not a group. And for other players too!

QuebraRegra

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

I’m pretty sure it is only being reverted for the duration of the test... and I hope it is.

weird since they indicated it did NOT have the desired effect anyway... OFW, typical ZOS if they choose to implement *** random changes to address problems they don't understand, and yet it does not correct them.

LOL

Ranger209

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

And the best thing for new players to do is join a group... if they happen to be healers then perfect. Or else they run around like they’re lost, not knowing where to go next.

Right, wrong, or indifferent people tend to decide for themselves what is best for them to do. Many decide to get a feel for things before embarrassing themselves in a group situation. I'm sure plenty jump right into a group first thing as well, but it is a personal choice they each make on their own terms, and within their own comfort zones. Take people out of their comfort zone when trying something new, and many of them respond negatively.

ZOS_GinaBruno

It'll be a little later this month. We'll post details of the upcoming test hopefully later this week.

FantasticFreddie

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It'll be a little later this month. We'll post details of the upcoming test hopefully later this week.

Does this mean the healing changes are only being reversed for the test?

Grimlok_S

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It'll be a little later this month. We'll post details of the upcoming test hopefully later this week.

Does this mean the healing changes are only being reversed for the test?

Her post leads me to believe the changes will only be in effect for the test.

FantasticFreddie

Grimlok_S wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It'll be a little later this month. We'll post details of the upcoming test hopefully later this week.

Does this mean the healing changes are only being reversed for the test?

Her post leads me to believe the changes will only be in effect for the test.

They keep sending mixed messages! During the stream it sounded as if they were being reversed for good, there has been multiple messages across the forums celebrating the reversal which have gone uncorrected, now this that sounds like just for the tests.
I wish they would just SAY once and for all which it is.

forthwinds

I really like knowing that I am getting my own heals when I play solo. I also disagree that they got rid of the "support" role of a healer. When I play healer I just join group with my friends so I can SUPPORT them like my role is defined. I don't have a problem not being able to heal my friends like rich said in the eso live, because I just invite them to group and I can heal them.

FantasticFreddie

forthwinds wrote: »

I really like knowing that I am getting my own heals when I play solo. I also disagree that they got rid of the "support" role of a healer. When I play healer I just join group with my friends so I can SUPPORT them like my role is defined. I don't have a problem not being able to heal my friends like rich said in the eso live, because I just invite them to group and I can heal them.

That only works if you have 11 friends or less.

edges_endgame

I am glad of that revert. I play a magplar in Pvp at times and I don't see why I should die to a VD from the player next to me when I can't heal try to heal that one.

JkahrrRadnar

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

What does this even mean? How are supports eliminated from cyro?.

Did I write Cyro or very specifically

AvAvA gameplay

?

A = Alliance
Alliance =/= a group of 12-24 people
Idk if you were around before One Tamriel but the whole game used to be designed around the fight between the different factions -a concept which culminated in Cyro PvP and its epic, LotR style siege battles.

The point of AvAvA was NOT for people to divide in groups of 12 (or less) and then battle each other. That's what Battlegrounds is for. In AvAvA everyone with your color is your ally (which is why the ability texts say "allied players" and not "players in your group"... smart, right?) and only if everyone in the faction worked together, the map can be played effectively (that's why it's so big and empty nowadays)

Healers unable to heal/buff all members of their faction are excluded from this aspect of Cyro gameplay.

Imagine a crucial keep under siege. You're on your way there, together with other people who saw the call in zone. There's an ambush: Enemy players want to cut off the reinforcements.
If you only see your group as your allies, you'll keep riding. If you see all members of your alliance as your allies, you'll want to do something to get rid of the highwaymen.

If you're a dps or tank you won't have to think twice about throwing yourself into the fight. What, however, can you do as a healer? Make sure the other players don't die, right?

Well, you can't. Unless you quickly exit your group and get the 3 randos currently present to form a new one, your heals and buffs do *** all. Better just keep riding.

Or, different scenario, a siege is set up, two 12 ppl groups are present. A bomber comes in, takes out most of your group mates. You used to be able to buff the other players, too. Now you just gotta sit tight, with all your quipped healing/buffs and full ult useless, until your group comes back.

Maybe if one only plays smallscale PvP with coordinated groups situations like this just... don't happen, idk. But this was the kind of gameplay I sought out and enjoyed most as a support player. As a tank I can still help all people in my alliance, if and when they need it. As a healer I can not.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

That only works if you have 11 friends or less.

The number of friends must be >= 1 && <= 11. Also, your schedule has to line up with them, they must be reasonably experienced but not so experienced that they don't need a healer anyway...

It's wild how the supporters of this change seem to think there is one way to play this game -their way- and every differing playstyle is an oddity that deserves to be axed.

Telling people to "just group up" is so easy as someone who
a) plays solo (as in self-sufficiently) anyway and doesn't know what tf they're talking about
b) mostly plays with rl friends and never actually has to look for a group
c) has a guild and the free-time/lack of other commitments needed to stay in it
d) interprets the support role in an AvAvA environment (we're talking Cyro, NOT BG) as a monogamous relationship between themselves and exactly 11 other, pre-determined players

Note that in my comment I said

barred from Cyro PvP unless they accept drastic QoL loss/gameplay restrictions

because that's what this is unless you fit into the above categories -in which case: congrats.

If I started playing this game yesterday and didn't know better I wouldn't care (because I would have logged into PvP, seen how it works and logged straight back out) but I've been playing ESO p much since launch. I know the options/freedom I had before this change. Even with MYM causing high pop and lots of PuG opportunities to go around, the loss of spontaneity is a deal-breaker.

superbiquette

i'm glad too but still worried about their behaviour. i like playing mmorpg and i don't think it's depend on how many friends you have. And the behaviour seems to get out of mmorpg category. How to say that, you will more see this in pvp area than in pve because you have the mmorpg feature wich allow you to interact with more freedom with environment ( players, siege weapon ... ) you know in real rpg if you want to burn a house, kill a friend, make love with a bear or anything else you can try , you will just have to deal with the gamemaster but you are free to play your caracter like you want ( rpg feature ).
Computer haven't the possibility that you have in real rpg but they try to take this way for rpg player happiness , so mmorpg try to take this way and in the pvp area you are the most able to interact with other peoples and massively wich allow some feature like battle. But for this you have to interact with peoples around you for mmo part with the most freedom possible ( rpg way) and it seems that the behaviour is to make very less possibilty of interacting. Smaller group is less possibilty of gameplay, making heal limited to a group is the same.
But it's elder scroll people will play even if you haven't pvp area wathever the behaviour , it's a beautiful game with lots of fun things and possibility alone or in group. And i like what a pvp area bring to a mmorpg that's why i'm still worried about their direction that getting more to a rpg with co op fights.

But one more thing , Rich , Zos Richard? said that healers are just support class only able to support a group? Divine Word on you! happy you're not gary gygax with a 2 class game : barbarian and barbarian with bow and 2 spell allowed fireball and healmyself. Destroy is easy magic , restoring healing cure etc needs more time, magical ressource and i don't speak of bringing back to life, and this "skills" never been the only one wich can use class able to heal . You just want a healing box clik purge clik heal.

FantasticFreddie

JkahrrRadnar wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

What does this even mean? How are supports eliminated from cyro?.

Did I write Cyro or very specifically

AvAvA gameplay

?

A = Alliance
Alliance =/= a group of 12-24 people
Idk if you were around before One Tamriel but the whole game used to be designed around the fight between the different factions -a concept which culminated in Cyro PvP and its epic, LotR style siege battles.

The point of AvAvA was NOT for people to divide in groups of 12 (or less) and then battle each other. That's what Battlegrounds is for. In AvAvA everyone with your color is your ally (which is why the ability texts say "allied players" and not "players in your group"... smart, right?) and only if everyone in the faction worked together, the map can be played effectively (that's why it's so big and empty nowadays)

Healers unable to heal/buff all members of their faction are excluded from this aspect of Cyro gameplay.

Imagine a crucial keep under siege. You're on your way there, together with other people who saw the call in zone. There's an ambush: Enemy players want to cut off the reinforcements.
If you only see your group as your allies, you'll keep riding. If you see all members of your alliance as your allies, you'll want to do something to get rid of the highwaymen.

If you're a dps or tank you won't have to think twice about throwing yourself into the fight. What, however, can you do as a healer? Make sure the other players don't die, right?

Well, you can't. Unless you quickly exit your group and get the 3 randos currently present to form a new one, your heals and buffs do *** all. Better just keep riding.

Or, different scenario, a siege is set up, two 12 ppl groups are present. A bomber comes in, takes out most of your group mates. You used to be able to buff the other players, too. Now you just gotta sit tight, with all your quipped healing/buffs and full ult useless, until your group comes back.

Maybe if one only plays smallscale PvP with coordinated groups situations like this just... don't happen, idk. But this was the kind of gameplay I sought out and enjoyed most as a support player. As a tank I can still help all people in my alliance, if and when they need it. As a healer I can not.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

That only works if you have 11 friends or less.

The number of friends must be >= 1 && <= 11. Also, your schedule has to line up with them, they must be reasonably experienced but not so experienced that they don't need a healer anyway...

It's wild how the supporters of this change seem to think there is one way to play this game -their way- and every differing playstyle is an oddity that deserves to be axed.

Telling people to "just group up" is so easy as someone who
a) plays solo (as in self-sufficiently) anyway and doesn't know what tf they're talking about
b) mostly plays with rl friends and never actually has to look for a group
c) has a guild and the free-time/lack of other commitments needed to stay in it
d) interprets the support role in an AvAvA environment (we're talking Cyro, NOT BG) as a monogamous relationship between themselves and exactly 11 other, pre-determined players

Note that in my comment I said

barred from Cyro PvP unless they accept drastic QoL loss/gameplay restrictions

because that's what this is unless you fit into the above categories -in which case: congrats.

If I started playing this game yesterday and didn't know better I wouldn't care (because I would have logged into PvP, seen how it works and logged straight back out) but I've been playing ESO p much since launch. I know the options/freedom I had before this change. Even with MYM causing high pop and lots of PuG opportunities to go around, the loss of spontaneity is a deal-breaker.

Beautifully said.

badmojo

I have to laugh at the idea that zos would test out reverting ally heals when its been in the game since 2014. What exactly would they even be testing? LOL

But hey, if people wanna cling to the hope that its temporary, go for it.

NotTaylorSwift

JkahrrRadnar wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

What does this even mean? How are supports eliminated from cyro?.

Did I write Cyro or very specifically

AvAvA gameplay

?

A = Alliance
Alliance =/= a group of 12-24 people
Idk if you were around before One Tamriel but the whole game used to be designed around the fight between the different factions -a concept which culminated in Cyro PvP and its epic, LotR style siege battles.

The point of AvAvA was NOT for people to divide in groups of 12 (or less) and then battle each other. That's what Battlegrounds is for. In AvAvA everyone with your color is your ally (which is why the ability texts say "allied players" and not "players in your group"... smart, right?) and only if everyone in the faction worked together, the map can be played effectively (that's why it's so big and empty nowadays)

Healers unable to heal/buff all members of their faction are excluded from this aspect of Cyro gameplay.

Imagine a crucial keep under siege. You're on your way there, together with other people who saw the call in zone. There's an ambush: Enemy players want to cut off the reinforcements.
If you only see your group as your allies, you'll keep riding. If you see all members of your alliance as your allies, you'll want to do something to get rid of the highwaymen.

If you're a dps or tank you won't have to think twice about throwing yourself into the fight. What, however, can you do as a healer? Make sure the other players don't die, right?

Well, you can't. Unless you quickly exit your group and get the 3 randos currently present to form a new one, your heals and buffs do *** all. Better just keep riding.

Or, different scenario, a siege is set up, two 12 ppl groups are present. A bomber comes in, takes out most of your group mates. You used to be able to buff the other players, too. Now you just gotta sit tight, with all your quipped healing/buffs and full ult useless, until your group comes back.

Maybe if one only plays smallscale PvP with coordinated groups situations like this just... don't happen, idk. But this was the kind of gameplay I sought out and enjoyed most as a support player. As a tank I can still help all people in my alliance, if and when they need it. As a healer I can not.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

That only works if you have 11 friends or less.

The number of friends must be >= 1 && <= 11. Also, your schedule has to line up with them, they must be reasonably experienced but not so experienced that they don't need a healer anyway...

It's wild how the supporters of this change seem to think there is one way to play this game -their way- and every differing playstyle is an oddity that deserves to be axed.

Telling people to "just group up" is so easy as someone who
a) plays solo (as in self-sufficiently) anyway and doesn't know what tf they're talking about
b) mostly plays with rl friends and never actually has to look for a group
c) has a guild and the free-time/lack of other commitments needed to stay in it
d) interprets the support role in an AvAvA environment (we're talking Cyro, NOT BG) as a monogamous relationship between themselves and exactly 11 other, pre-determined players

Note that in my comment I said

barred from Cyro PvP unless they accept drastic QoL loss/gameplay restrictions

because that's what this is unless you fit into the above categories -in which case: congrats.

If I started playing this game yesterday and didn't know better I wouldn't care (because I would have logged into PvP, seen how it works and logged straight back out) but I've been playing ESO p much since launch. I know the options/freedom I had before this change. Even with MYM causing high pop and lots of PuG opportunities to go around, the loss of spontaneity is a deal-breaker.

You don’t need to explain terms to me, I understand

I feel like how u describe cyro is very outdated. The majority of players seem to care mostly for their guild/group more than they do about randoms now anyway, not even just since the group changes. The majority of regular cyrodiil players are members of guilds... if, hypothetically, they had to choose between saving me or saving someone on their guild, I would be dead. And I’m fine with that

Also this same excuse is brought up time and time again. That you need time and dedication to be in a guild. You really do not. Most of the casual pvp guilds with 300+ players only require you to log in once a month... And if for some reason you just don’t wanna join a guild, they run pug groups every single day which any player can join. They won’t kick you out of the group for being: low level, bad, inexperienced etc etc.

Also people who “play solo” are NOT support players. That’s it. It is impossible to play healer or support and play solo. It always has been. If you were an ungrouped support player, you were still zerg surfing and following groups around wether you knew they were grouped or not. The fact that you now have to join a group to heal them doesn’t even change how you play. As a support player you NEED other players to support. People just have strange excuses as to why they don’t wanna join a group.

Sandman929

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

JkahrrRadnar wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

What does this even mean? How are supports eliminated from cyro?.

Did I write Cyro or very specifically

AvAvA gameplay

?

A = Alliance
Alliance =/= a group of 12-24 people
Idk if you were around before One Tamriel but the whole game used to be designed around the fight between the different factions -a concept which culminated in Cyro PvP and its epic, LotR style siege battles.

The point of AvAvA was NOT for people to divide in groups of 12 (or less) and then battle each other. That's what Battlegrounds is for. In AvAvA everyone with your color is your ally (which is why the ability texts say "allied players" and not "players in your group"... smart, right?) and only if everyone in the faction worked together, the map can be played effectively (that's why it's so big and empty nowadays)

Healers unable to heal/buff all members of their faction are excluded from this aspect of Cyro gameplay.

Imagine a crucial keep under siege. You're on your way there, together with other people who saw the call in zone. There's an ambush: Enemy players want to cut off the reinforcements.
If you only see your group as your allies, you'll keep riding. If you see all members of your alliance as your allies, you'll want to do something to get rid of the highwaymen.

If you're a dps or tank you won't have to think twice about throwing yourself into the fight. What, however, can you do as a healer? Make sure the other players don't die, right?

Well, you can't. Unless you quickly exit your group and get the 3 randos currently present to form a new one, your heals and buffs do *** all. Better just keep riding.

Or, different scenario, a siege is set up, two 12 ppl groups are present. A bomber comes in, takes out most of your group mates. You used to be able to buff the other players, too. Now you just gotta sit tight, with all your quipped healing/buffs and full ult useless, until your group comes back.

Maybe if one only plays smallscale PvP with coordinated groups situations like this just... don't happen, idk. But this was the kind of gameplay I sought out and enjoyed most as a support player. As a tank I can still help all people in my alliance, if and when they need it. As a healer I can not.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

That only works if you have 11 friends or less.

The number of friends must be >= 1 && <= 11. Also, your schedule has to line up with them, they must be reasonably experienced but not so experienced that they don't need a healer anyway...

It's wild how the supporters of this change seem to think there is one way to play this game -their way- and every differing playstyle is an oddity that deserves to be axed.

Telling people to "just group up" is so easy as someone who
a) plays solo (as in self-sufficiently) anyway and doesn't know what tf they're talking about
b) mostly plays with rl friends and never actually has to look for a group
c) has a guild and the free-time/lack of other commitments needed to stay in it
d) interprets the support role in an AvAvA environment (we're talking Cyro, NOT BG) as a monogamous relationship between themselves and exactly 11 other, pre-determined players

Note that in my comment I said

barred from Cyro PvP unless they accept drastic QoL loss/gameplay restrictions

because that's what this is unless you fit into the above categories -in which case: congrats.

If I started playing this game yesterday and didn't know better I wouldn't care (because I would have logged into PvP, seen how it works and logged straight back out) but I've been playing ESO p much since launch. I know the options/freedom I had before this change. Even with MYM causing high pop and lots of PuG opportunities to go around, the loss of spontaneity is a deal-breaker.

You don’t need to explain terms to me, I understand

I feel like how u describe cyro is very outdated. The majority of players seem to care mostly for their guild/group more than they do about randoms now anyway, not even just since the group changes. The majority of regular cyrodiil players are members of guilds... if, hypothetically, they had to choose between saving me or saving someone on their guild, I would be dead. And I’m fine with that

Also this same excuse is brought up time and time again. That you need time and dedication to be in a guild. You really do not. Most of the casual pvp guilds with 300+ players only require you to log in once a month... And if for some reason you just don’t wanna join a guild, they run pug groups every single day which any player can join. They won’t kick you out of the group for being: low level, bad, inexperienced etc etc.

Also people who “play solo” are NOT support players. That’s it. It is impossible to play healer or support and play solo. It always has been. If you were an ungrouped support player, you were still zerg surfing and following groups around wether you knew they were grouped or not. The fact that you now have to join a group to heal them doesn’t even change how you play. As a support player you NEED other players to support. People just have strange excuses as to why they don’t wanna join a group.

Where do you get your facts? I play in a guild sometimes and other times solo. I play solo on all different kinds of character including support tanks and healers. I haven't conducted any polling of my own, but I have no idea what the majority of players do.

badmojo

What difference does it make if the allies a player heals are grouped or not?

Players can support the alliance.

NotTaylorSwift

Sandman929 wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

JkahrrRadnar wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

What does this even mean? How are supports eliminated from cyro?.

Did I write Cyro or very specifically

AvAvA gameplay

?

A = Alliance
Alliance =/= a group of 12-24 people
Idk if you were around before One Tamriel but the whole game used to be designed around the fight between the different factions -a concept which culminated in Cyro PvP and its epic, LotR style siege battles.

The point of AvAvA was NOT for people to divide in groups of 12 (or less) and then battle each other. That's what Battlegrounds is for. In AvAvA everyone with your color is your ally (which is why the ability texts say "allied players" and not "players in your group"... smart, right?) and only if everyone in the faction worked together, the map can be played effectively (that's why it's so big and empty nowadays)

Healers unable to heal/buff all members of their faction are excluded from this aspect of Cyro gameplay.

Imagine a crucial keep under siege. You're on your way there, together with other people who saw the call in zone. There's an ambush: Enemy players want to cut off the reinforcements.
If you only see your group as your allies, you'll keep riding. If you see all members of your alliance as your allies, you'll want to do something to get rid of the highwaymen.

If you're a dps or tank you won't have to think twice about throwing yourself into the fight. What, however, can you do as a healer? Make sure the other players don't die, right?

Well, you can't. Unless you quickly exit your group and get the 3 randos currently present to form a new one, your heals and buffs do *** all. Better just keep riding.

Or, different scenario, a siege is set up, two 12 ppl groups are present. A bomber comes in, takes out most of your group mates. You used to be able to buff the other players, too. Now you just gotta sit tight, with all your quipped healing/buffs and full ult useless, until your group comes back.

Maybe if one only plays smallscale PvP with coordinated groups situations like this just... don't happen, idk. But this was the kind of gameplay I sought out and enjoyed most as a support player. As a tank I can still help all people in my alliance, if and when they need it. As a healer I can not.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

That only works if you have 11 friends or less.

The number of friends must be >= 1 && <= 11. Also, your schedule has to line up with them, they must be reasonably experienced but not so experienced that they don't need a healer anyway...

It's wild how the supporters of this change seem to think there is one way to play this game -their way- and every differing playstyle is an oddity that deserves to be axed.

Telling people to "just group up" is so easy as someone who
a) plays solo (as in self-sufficiently) anyway and doesn't know what tf they're talking about
b) mostly plays with rl friends and never actually has to look for a group
c) has a guild and the free-time/lack of other commitments needed to stay in it
d) interprets the support role in an AvAvA environment (we're talking Cyro, NOT BG) as a monogamous relationship between themselves and exactly 11 other, pre-determined players

Note that in my comment I said

barred from Cyro PvP unless they accept drastic QoL loss/gameplay restrictions

because that's what this is unless you fit into the above categories -in which case: congrats.

If I started playing this game yesterday and didn't know better I wouldn't care (because I would have logged into PvP, seen how it works and logged straight back out) but I've been playing ESO p much since launch. I know the options/freedom I had before this change. Even with MYM causing high pop and lots of PuG opportunities to go around, the loss of spontaneity is a deal-breaker.

You don’t need to explain terms to me, I understand

I feel like how u describe cyro is very outdated. The majority of players seem to care mostly for their guild/group more than they do about randoms now anyway, not even just since the group changes. The majority of regular cyrodiil players are members of guilds... if, hypothetically, they had to choose between saving me or saving someone on their guild, I would be dead. And I’m fine with that

Also this same excuse is brought up time and time again. That you need time and dedication to be in a guild. You really do not. Most of the casual pvp guilds with 300+ players only require you to log in once a month... And if for some reason you just don’t wanna join a guild, they run pug groups every single day which any player can join. They won’t kick you out of the group for being: low level, bad, inexperienced etc etc.

Also people who “play solo” are NOT support players. That’s it. It is impossible to play healer or support and play solo. It always has been. If you were an ungrouped support player, you were still zerg surfing and following groups around wether you knew they were grouped or not. The fact that you now have to join a group to heal them doesn’t even change how you play. As a support player you NEED other players to support. People just have strange excuses as to why they don’t wanna join a group.

Where do you get your facts? I play in a guild sometimes and other times solo. I play solo on all different kinds of character including support tanks and healers. I haven't conducted any polling of my own, but I have no idea what the majority of players do.

I said “seem to” if I’m wrong then fair enough. But most regular cyrodiil players ARE in pvp guilds... they just are and u did not play solo. Just because you are ungrouped does not mean you are playing solo. A solo player is someone who goes to take resources on their own, tries to fight people on their own, as examples. It is impossible to do this as a “support tank and healer”. You literally NEED other players to support... I don’t get what people don’t understand about the term ‘solo’. If you are ungrouped and Zerg surfing and playing alongside other people you are not playing solo. And there is nothing wrong with that just don’t call it solo when it’s not.

Sandman929

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

JkahrrRadnar wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

What does this even mean? How are supports eliminated from cyro?.

Did I write Cyro or very specifically

AvAvA gameplay

?

A = Alliance
Alliance =/= a group of 12-24 people
Idk if you were around before One Tamriel but the whole game used to be designed around the fight between the different factions -a concept which culminated in Cyro PvP and its epic, LotR style siege battles.

The point of AvAvA was NOT for people to divide in groups of 12 (or less) and then battle each other. That's what Battlegrounds is for. In AvAvA everyone with your color is your ally (which is why the ability texts say "allied players" and not "players in your group"... smart, right?) and only if everyone in the faction worked together, the map can be played effectively (that's why it's so big and empty nowadays)

Healers unable to heal/buff all members of their faction are excluded from this aspect of Cyro gameplay.

Imagine a crucial keep under siege. You're on your way there, together with other people who saw the call in zone. There's an ambush: Enemy players want to cut off the reinforcements.
If you only see your group as your allies, you'll keep riding. If you see all members of your alliance as your allies, you'll want to do something to get rid of the highwaymen.

If you're a dps or tank you won't have to think twice about throwing yourself into the fight. What, however, can you do as a healer? Make sure the other players don't die, right?

Well, you can't. Unless you quickly exit your group and get the 3 randos currently present to form a new one, your heals and buffs do *** all. Better just keep riding.

Or, different scenario, a siege is set up, two 12 ppl groups are present. A bomber comes in, takes out most of your group mates. You used to be able to buff the other players, too. Now you just gotta sit tight, with all your quipped healing/buffs and full ult useless, until your group comes back.

Maybe if one only plays smallscale PvP with coordinated groups situations like this just... don't happen, idk. But this was the kind of gameplay I sought out and enjoyed most as a support player. As a tank I can still help all people in my alliance, if and when they need it. As a healer I can not.

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

That only works if you have 11 friends or less.

The number of friends must be >= 1 && <= 11. Also, your schedule has to line up with them, they must be reasonably experienced but not so experienced that they don't need a healer anyway...

It's wild how the supporters of this change seem to think there is one way to play this game -their way- and every differing playstyle is an oddity that deserves to be axed.

Telling people to "just group up" is so easy as someone who
a) plays solo (as in self-sufficiently) anyway and doesn't know what tf they're talking about
b) mostly plays with rl friends and never actually has to look for a group
c) has a guild and the free-time/lack of other commitments needed to stay in it
d) interprets the support role in an AvAvA environment (we're talking Cyro, NOT BG) as a monogamous relationship between themselves and exactly 11 other, pre-determined players

Note that in my comment I said

barred from Cyro PvP unless they accept drastic QoL loss/gameplay restrictions

because that's what this is unless you fit into the above categories -in which case: congrats.

If I started playing this game yesterday and didn't know better I wouldn't care (because I would have logged into PvP, seen how it works and logged straight back out) but I've been playing ESO p much since launch. I know the options/freedom I had before this change. Even with MYM causing high pop and lots of PuG opportunities to go around, the loss of spontaneity is a deal-breaker.

You don’t need to explain terms to me, I understand

I feel like how u describe cyro is very outdated. The majority of players seem to care mostly for their guild/group more than they do about randoms now anyway, not even just since the group changes. The majority of regular cyrodiil players are members of guilds... if, hypothetically, they had to choose between saving me or saving someone on their guild, I would be dead. And I’m fine with that

Also this same excuse is brought up time and time again. That you need time and dedication to be in a guild. You really do not. Most of the casual pvp guilds with 300+ players only require you to log in once a month... And if for some reason you just don’t wanna join a guild, they run pug groups every single day which any player can join. They won’t kick you out of the group for being: low level, bad, inexperienced etc etc.

Also people who “play solo” are NOT support players. That’s it. It is impossible to play healer or support and play solo. It always has been. If you were an ungrouped support player, you were still zerg surfing and following groups around wether you knew they were grouped or not. The fact that you now have to join a group to heal them doesn’t even change how you play. As a support player you NEED other players to support. People just have strange excuses as to why they don’t wanna join a group.

Where do you get your facts? I play in a guild sometimes and other times solo. I play solo on all different kinds of character including support tanks and healers. I haven't conducted any polling of my own, but I have no idea what the majority of players do.

I said “seem to” if I’m wrong then fair enough. But most regular cyrodiil players ARE in pvp guilds... they just are and u did not play solo. Just because you are ungrouped does not mean you are playing solo. A solo player is someone who goes to take resources on their own, tries to fight people on their own, as examples. It is impossible to do this as a “support tank and healer”. You literally NEED other players to support... I don’t get what people don’t understand about the term ‘solo’. If you are ungrouped and Zerg surfing and playing alongside other people you are not playing solo. And there is nothing wrong with that just don’t call it solo when it’s not.

You clearly have a lot of your own definitions that you enjoy applying to everyone, but I guess by that definition, an ungrouped person oscillates between playing solo, and then not playing solo when someone else comes around.
I also take resources all the time on support toons...so I do the impossible.