ZOS: Connect Blackwood to Neighboring Zones! (Or, All Roads Lead to Cyrodiil)

opaj

Hi ZOS! I want to remind you fine folks that being able to naturally explore and wander Tamriel is a major aspect of this game for many of us Elder Scrolls fans.

There was a bit of an oversight when the Reach was added in the most recent DLC, so I'd like to remind you to make sure that Blackwood is connected to its neighboring regions via roads.

This screencap from the stream was shared by @MashmalloMan :


Based on the above image, it seems like Blackwood should have overland routes to Northern Elsweyr, Shadowfen, and Murkmire--which would be a huge win for us vagabonds! I understand that this may not be a literal representation of Blackwood's borders, but any way you can help keep Tamriel interconnected would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time!

(Tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno for good measure. )

MashmalloMan

In before they make those annoying tiny gaps that will never be filled between the zones like they've done before. I don't care if it's just mountains we can't access, fill it in.

MashmalloMan

Side note.. if they actually connect all 3 sides. This will be the first time in ESO history that you're able to travel on foot from 1 alliance to the other. Can't wait to see what the map looks like in another 6 years.

AlienMagi

I second this, please connect the zones.

Is the Reach still inaccessible from western skyrim?

Darios_Heliodromos

Yup! That's literally my biggest concern here - if Blackwood will have overland border crossings with Northern Elsweyr, Shadowfen, and Murkmire.

I'm seriously still annoyed about Southern Elsweyr and the Reach.

Aptonoth

They have said many times they want the entire continent done so I imagine the small slices like that will be dolled out as small dlc zones or something. I imagine they have a plan if they keep doing it.

Saccopharynx

You can access The Reach from Western Skyrim

lillybit

MashmalloMan wrote: »

In before they make those annoying tiny gaps that will never be filled between the zones like they've done before. I don't care if it's just mountains we can't access, fill it in.

I'm not enough of an Elder Scrolls geek, but I believe the existing areas you've highlighted there are other regions, not just random gaps.

If you look at Western Skyrim and The Reach there isn't a gap so don't see them adding them just because.

But yes, they bug me too!

AlienMagi

MissAethe wrote: »

You can access The Reach from Western Skyrim

Nice, i guess they fixed the locked door in the last patch? Was pretty dissappointed when i first got Markarth but i couldnt walk to it and had to use a wayshrine.

lillybit

AlienMagi wrote: »

MissAethe wrote: »

You can access The Reach from Western Skyrim

Nice, i guess they fixed the locked door in the last patch? Was pretty dissappointed when i first got Markarth but i couldnt walk to it and had to use a wayshrine.

Yes, It's been fixed a while. I believe they said that was a bug with something to do with ESO+, never inteneded

phantasmalD

opaj wrote: »

Hi ZOS! I want to remind you fine folks that being able to naturally explore and wander Tamriel is a major aspect of this game for many of us Elder Scrolls fans.

There was a bit of an oversight when the Reach was added in the most recent DLC, so I'd like to remind you to make sure that Blackwood is connected to its neighboring regions via roads.

This screencap from the stream was shared by @MashmalloMan :

Based on the above image, it seems like Blackwood should have overland routes to Northern Elsweyr, Shadowfen, and Murkmire--which would be a huge win for us vagabonds! I understand that this may not be a literal representation of Blackwood's borders, but any way you can help keep Tamriel interconnected would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time!

(Tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno for good measure. )

Yes, this, this, this. The promise of interconnected provinces and free exploration was one of the main draws of ESO for me, so please don't forget to go back and add some gates to old zones where it would make sense. Probably somewhere around Hakoshae would be a sensible location for a N.Elsweyr-Blackwood gate.

Also, as a related matter, don't forget that not every transition zone has to be a lowered gate. In the base game we have seamless crossovers between zones like Wayrest-Bangkorai where the loading zone is a bridge. Rift-Stonefalls is a steep mountainpath. Etc. It's more immersive.

But yeah, even if some of the borders don't end up touching an existing zone (like the northern border for example), don't forget to place a gate that at least gives the sense of interconnectivity. Both N.Elsweyr and S.Elsweyr had this problem where there wasn't a road going south/north towards central Elsweyr, making the zones feel boxed in and isolated. The problem also kinda appeared in Greymoor where western Skyrim has no roads going east, even tho there should obviously be roads going towards the Pale and Whiterun. There are just huge rocks where the roads would logically be placed.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

In before they make those annoying tiny gaps that will never be filled between the zones like they've done before. I don't care if it's just mountains we can't access, fill it in.

Please, don't bring Blacklight into this. That area needs to be bigger, not filled in. ZoS just simply *** up when they initially drawn the map, that area should be like 2-3 times the size it currently is. ZoS just haven't fixed it since beta. Or rather, this was their fix to an even worse situation where they just completely forgot Blacklight exists.

Most of these gaps cover actual areas and known cities that just they haven't explored yet. The Elsweyr gap for example covers a large stretch of the Tenmar forest, the City of Corinthe and the city of Torval, the seat of the Mane. It IS an explorable location that they are just saving for a later time and simply filling it in with mountains would be lore erasure that would, deservedly so, lead to huge backlash.

I don't mind having these small potential-DlC gaps as long as they are acknowledged in.game, by having inactive gates towards it and dialogue adressing them. Like I believe they do talk about the reach gap in the Markarth DLC, iirc someone does mention that it's off-limit for now.

If they fill in an area that means there's 0% chance for new DLC in that location. So I'd rather have these small gaps that could always be redrawn to squeeze in a story DLC later down the road. Just don't forget to imply that there are roads heading that way, please.

Darios_Heliodromos

phantasmalD wrote: »

Yes, this, this, this. The promise of interconnected provinces and free exploration was one of the main draws of ESO for me, so please don't forget to go back and add some gates to old zones where it would make sense. Probably somewhere around Hakoshae would be a sensible location for a N.Elsweyr-Blackwood gate.

Agreed, this would be an excellent location for the N. Elsweyr-Blackwood gate. Hakoshae does feel like more of an cultural extension of Cyrodiil than Elsweyr proper. It's an excellent transition zone.

Personally, I always found the Reach to be interesting in the sense that it felt like having a bit of High Rock in Skyrim. Therefore, it was very disappointing to see that the devs didn't think to make a walkable path from Bangkorai into the Reach.

The ability to explore Tamriel without wayshrines is one of the selling points to me. Seeing the transition in geography and cultures really makes zones like Reaper's March or Shadowfen stand out to me.

tomofhyrule

We do have a gate there in southern Shadowfen already, way in the southwest near Chid-Moska, which was originally intended to go to Gideon. Hope they remember it this time.

Neither of the Elsweyrs or Murkmire have a premade gate in the other area already.

I would like all regions to be walkable. The Bangkorai-Reach connection is acceptable, but lacking - there should have been a path near Ragnvald added that connected to that gate in Bangkorai instead of a wagon. Granted, those do still have a mountain path between them, but it'd be more interesting to be able to walk it.

phantasmalD

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The Bangkorai-Reach connection is acceptable, but lacking - there should have been a path near Ragnvald added that connected to that gate in Bangkorai instead of a wagon.

Tbh that gate might be heading north, towards that bit of untouched wrothgarian mountain bit. Still a shame that the Reach is only connected to Skyrim holds, a gate towards north and a blocked passage towards Falkreath. I'd have loved a passage southward to Craglorn and a passage south-west towards Bangkorai (potentially an ancient Dwemer tunnel, starting from Nchuand-Zel and coming up near Fang Lair?).

tomofhyrule

phantasmalD wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The Bangkorai-Reach connection is acceptable, but lacking - there should have been a path near Ragnvald added that connected to that gate in Bangkorai instead of a wagon.

Tbh that gate might be heading north, towards that bit of untouched wrothgarian mountain bit. Still a shame that the Reach is only connected to Skyrim holds, a gate towards north and a blocked passage towards Falkreath. I'd have loved a passage southward to Craglorn and a passage south-west towards Bangkorai (potentially an ancient Dwemer tunnel, starting from Nchuand-Zel and coming up near Fang Lair?).

It's true it doesn't line up exactly. The Bangkorai gate would need to go north through the uncharted area of the Druadach mountains to connect to the Reach. In TES5 (and in ESO), there is a bit of a trail leading into the mountains near Ragnvald that could be the end of that passage.

Now we don't need an extra part of mountain trail just to connect those, but it's understood that it's there. Sort of like in TES4 how the Temple exits right to the Waterfront, but if you look at the map there's actually a bit of a tunnel between them that's just not shown.

Right now, there's a gate with a wagon that leads straight to Markarth. That means even if you're assuming that this unmarked trail exists, you're also being ferried from Ragnvald to Markarth with fast travel when that is terrain shown in game.

I'm okay with Craglorn not connecting to the Reach since there's really no good area for it to do so. Even in TES5, there didn't seem to be any viable paths since it was all craggy mountains between the Reach and Hammerfell, so I can buy no connection. Just like how currently Deshaan and Stonefalls are connected the whole length, but the only passage is all the way over by Kragenmoor/Serkamora, the rest is all craggy impassable mountains.

The idea of trying to dig a passage from Blackreach to near Fang Lair is a good one though, and would make a lot of sense in story.

opaj

MashmalloMan wrote: »

In before they make those annoying tiny gaps that will never be filled between the zones like they've done before. I don't care if it's just mountains we can't access, fill it in.

This annoys me too, though maybe for slightly different reasons. I think there are a few ways they could fill these zones in future Q4 DLC:

1. Because all zones are scaled differently, a small footprint on the map doesn't necessarily mean the zone has to be smaller than usual.
2. They could pull another Dark Heart of Skyrim and split the explorable area between the overland and some other space (underground or daedric plane or what have you).
3. They could always give us a smaller zone one quarter and make up for it with system updates, like... tying an Unarmed skill line to the Tenmar Forest zone. (Ugh, there are parts of that idea that are kind of vile, but I'm desperate for Unarmed.)

My main annoyance is that we only get two new zones per year. Every time they leave a gap, we have to go another 6 months without any new overland connections. If Blackwood ends up connecting THREE zones, that'd be a big win.

---

While we're on the subject, I'd really love it if they made a road connecting the Alik'r to Bangkorai. Since Southern Bangkorai is culturally and historically part of Hammerfell, it really seems like there should be a way to walk from one to the other.

Vevvev

lillybit wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

MissAethe wrote: »

You can access The Reach from Western Skyrim

Nice, i guess they fixed the locked door in the last patch? Was pretty dissappointed when i first got Markarth but i couldnt walk to it and had to use a wayshrine.

Yes, It's been fixed a while. I believe they said that was a bug with something to do with ESO+, never inteneded

It was indeed an ESO+ bug that made the game think you didn't own Markarth and thus couldn't enter.

RedMuse

Vevvev wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

MissAethe wrote: »

You can access The Reach from Western Skyrim

Nice, i guess they fixed the locked door in the last patch? Was pretty dissappointed when i first got Markarth but i couldnt walk to it and had to use a wayshrine.

Yes, It's been fixed a while. I believe they said that was a bug with something to do with ESO+, never inteneded

It was indeed an ESO+ bug that made the game think you didn't own Markarth and thus couldn't enter.

No it wasn't just ESO+. No one could access The Reach on foot or via wagon, you had to wayshrine in.

Resdayn_Fyr

Yes, please.

Vevvev

RedMuse wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

MissAethe wrote: »

You can access The Reach from Western Skyrim

Nice, i guess they fixed the locked door in the last patch? Was pretty dissappointed when i first got Markarth but i couldnt walk to it and had to use a wayshrine.

Yes, It's been fixed a while. I believe they said that was a bug with something to do with ESO+, never inteneded

It was indeed an ESO+ bug that made the game think you didn't own Markarth and thus couldn't enter.

No it wasn't just ESO+. No one could access The Reach on foot or via wagon, you had to wayshrine in.

I saw people who bought the DLC with crowns get in just fine.

opaj

Vevvev wrote: »

I saw people who bought the DLC with crowns get in just fine.

It may have also mattered what content each player had completed. The connection between Bangkorai and the Reach is in Jackdaw Cove, which phases depending on whether you've done the quest there or not. It seems like they may have connected the version of the gate/cart for one phase but not the other at first.

Don't get me wrong--I'm glad that ZOS at least gave us a cart when we noticed that the gate to Bangkorai wasn't included in the Reach. Like others in this thread, though, I really hope that they go back and add a proper path near Ragnvald so you can actually walk from Markarth to Evermore. Actually walking through the gate or down the road has a different feeling from hopping on a cart, y'know?

Kajuratus

I'm so glad this thread exists. Ignoring the Bangkorai gate and not even including a connection into Craglorn with the Reach zone was a huge disappointment for me with Markarth. Lets hope this thread gives the devs enough time with Blackwood to include connections with Shadowfen and Anequina. We already have a gate in Shadowfen. Make use of it ZOS! If the Blackwood zone is going to go out as far as the Shadowfen gate on the world map, let us move between zones naturally! Don't just lump a cart in each zone after the PTS feedback like you did with the Reach.

And while we're at it, put in a path leading to the Bangkorai zone in the Reach. Also link it up to the damn gate in Bangkorai.

If you want people to see the start of the main quest as soon as they enter the Reach, I've found a place where you can tweak the geography a bit and add in a little mountain path right where the wayshrine is. Heres where the path could be

Heres a rough idea of where the path, gate and entrance point would be

And here's the view from the entrance

As we can see, Verandis is right there, so you don't have to worry about new players missing out on the quest.

Fares_B

So, I finished the Prologue Quest: A Mortal Touch for the Blackwood area. I wanted to travel to Blackwood on foot to start the main story as it should be. But there is no open road to go there. Only you can go by wayshrine. Or is it there and I’m missing it?

Edit: Just found out you can travel to Leyawin by boat from any major alliance city like Wayrest for example. I know it’s not as ideal as walking roads but at least it’s a viable way to go and still be logical with the story world of ESO.

Sylvermynx

You can actually get back and forth from Shadowfen to Blackwood in the SW, south of Chid-Moska Ruins across the hanging bridge, circled area on map:

BlueRaven

Fares_B wrote: »

So, I finished the Prologue Quest: A Mortal Touch for the Blackwood area. I wanted to travel to Blackwood on foot to start the main story as it should be. But there is no open road to go there. Only you can go by wayshrine. Or is it there and I’m missing it?

Edit: Just found out you can travel to Leyawin by boat from any major alliance city like Wayrest for example. I know it’s not as ideal as walking roads but at least it’s a viable way to go and still be logical with the story world of ESO.

There are two entrances to Blackwood, one as mentioned above is from Shadowfen.

The other is from Northern Elsweyr (that one is admittedly hard to find).

waterfairy

MashmalloMan wrote: »

In before they make those annoying tiny gaps that will never be filled between the zones like they've done before. I don't care if it's just mountains we can't access, fill it in.

wow never noticed them and now I can't unsee this ha

StarOfElyon

MashmalloMan wrote: »

In before they make those annoying tiny gaps that will never be filled between the zones like they've done before. I don't care if it's just mountains we can't access, fill it in.

OCD intensifies.

StarOfElyon

My Nord is just trying to find out what happened to her home Winterhold while she was away. Will she ever see her family again? 😢 No doubt the Mage's college had something to do with its disappearance.

Supreme_Atromancer

Fares_B wrote: »

So, I finished the Prologue Quest: A Mortal Touch for the Blackwood area. I wanted to travel to Blackwood on foot to start the main story as it should be. But there is no open road to go there. Only you can go by wayshrine. Or is it there and I’m missing it?

Edit: Just found out you can travel to Leyawin by boat from any major alliance city like Wayrest for example. I know it’s not as ideal as walking roads but at least it’s a viable way to go and still be logical with the story world of ESO.

Hey, @Fares_B , as of the Blackwood Chapter, you CAN actually "walk the roads" from any alliance capital to Leyawiin in Blackwood.

From Mournhold, travel south and there's a gate to Shadowfen. In the South-west of that map is a gate into Blackwood, with roads to Leyawiin.

From Eldenroot in Grahtwood, you can follow a road north into Reaper's March. If you follow that all the way north, you can find a gate near Sphinxmoth that will lead you to Riverwood in Northern Elsweyr. Follow that east to Rimmen, just south of which, beneath the aqueducts, you can find a gate to Blackwood, north of Leyawiin.

From Wayrest you can travel east to Bangkorai and at Jackdaw Cove you can find a cart that will lead you to Markarth. From there you can take any Great Lift into Blackreach, though if you want to traverse as much of Tamriel as possible, you can also run from Markarth to Western Skyrim and go to Blackreach from there. Once in Blackreach, travel eastwards far enough will lead you to a part of Blackreach that can be used to get to Eastmarch via another Great Lift. From Eastmarch travel South East to the Rift, through Riften then South East again through a mountain pass that will lead to Stonefalls, south through to Deshaan where you can follow the same route from Mournhold.

The ships are great but need some work. I don't know how a ship takes me to landlocked Mournhold or Elden Root, for instance. It would be far better if they took you to sensible ports such as Haven or Silent Mire. We already have wayshrines for convenience. The ships should be more immersive.

Supreme_Atromancer

And while this is still up, just wanted to add that while the cart from Markarth will take you to Jackdaw Cove with no problems, I personally still can't use the cart to travel the other way. But even if the solution worked, its still unsatisfying to use what's a glorified wayshrine to traverse geography we know exists.

What's the problem? Its very possible they made Bangkorai zone before they even got a look at TES5's world map; Fast-forward to, say 2018 or 19 when they are using all the lessons they've learned and improvements to the engine to make more beautiful world spaces, and want to adhere to a map as close as possible to that of Skyrim because that's what people expect. They look at the map and realise Bethesda never committed to any gates between High Rock and Skyrim, and they either forget that they had already committed to an approximate connection point with Jackdaw Cove back before 2014, or don't want to exercise license and commit to a solution. That lack of ability or attention to detail leads to unsatisfying outcomes for those of us for whom exploration is the major highlight.

But while it was an oversight on Bethesda's part, its a more egregious one for ZOS because selling "all of Tamriel" carries the inherent mandate of making the world feel connected. Mistakes happen, and things are forgotten and overlooked. But while time is limited, and there's a general imperative to always move forward, these things really matter to us, and we see them as worthwhile to revisit and get right.

While everyone accepts zones and instances as the compromise for having all of Tamriel explorable, "disjunct, isolated theme-islands" isn't a satisfying "Tamriel" when relatively small attentions to detail such as traversable, realised connections, and explorable clues (overlapping biomes, architecture, story elements) have so much power to make it feel connected. Even a non-functioning gate to a mountain path from the bottom of N. Elsweyr map that seems to lead to Corinthe and Senchal beyond makes far more sense to the world and story than no road and a small, unconvincing blob between zones, because the latter implies a disjunct, disconnected island, not a connected world. A passage north of Dragonstar to the Reach (perhaps near Vateshran Hollows) tells us how the Nord miners naturally expanded in this direction, and explains how "Nords from the Reach are harrying Daggerfall supply lines". The road leading west of Dragonstar past Fearfangs cavern giving access to Evermore via Ephesus makes "The Crossroads Encampment" actually make more sense than a road that just inexplicably ends.

A large part of the problem might have to do with the difficulty in reconciling ZOS' original Arena-based world with more modern interpretations (as is, in my best guess, the source of the horrible map inconsistencies people keep bringing up - compare Arena's placement of Windhelm), and while its easier to be vague about connections and exact geography its leading to unsatisfying outcomes that we really hope they will address in some way in the future.

Exploration is content in its own right, if handled properly. I think that ZOS, in making a grind-based MMO sometimes struggle to capitalise on this. Its all well and good to have skeletons with rocks on their heads, and the only thing that makes that story about Tamriel is the convenient note that tells you it was a Bosmer skeleton. Meanwhile the raw opportunity inherent in the world itself lies untapped.

There's some great stuff. They made a big, obvious effort with Blackwood, and the Valenwood and (southern) Bangkorai Gates in N. Elsweyr and Craglorn are exactly what we need A LOT more of because they add continuity and connectivity, give us something to explore, and offer big, obvious story hooks straight off the bat.

Fares_B

Thank you @Sylvermynx @BlueRaven and @Supreme_Atromancer
I really looked today but couldn’t find the roads. So I started Blackwood story after arriving by boat. I hope someone will find this thread and information useful and have more immersive travel story wise than me.