What is going on with magic in this game?

Marcus_Brody

Before people start flying off the handle, leaving inane replies, defending magic and the usual noise, please take the time to read through this entire topic. This topic is very clear as to what I'm talking about and the intent of it, IT IS NOT asking for help in any way, this topic is is just an observation from actual testing and research. [snip]

If people leave any advice or help, it's a nice gesture but not being asked for.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I took a crack at using a magic character (A high Elf Sorc)
The reason why is because I read many people say magic has the highest DPS in the game.

However when I actually put into use the high elf sorc here is what my own research and actual use has found:
Magic was weak and took me about 6-9 hits on average to kill anything.
I could only handle about 2 enemies at a time and on occasion a 3rd, but never more than that.
I had to kite enemies constantly so it took even longer to kill because I wasn't doing enough damage, and so kiting made it harder because I couldn't turn around and hit the enemies while running

When I mentioned in zone chat magic was just too weak so i don't see how people say ti's the highest DPS, I was responded to with the following types of comments:
Look up a build (Preferably alcast)
People said Alcast was terrible
People said look up a guide on youtube
Watch other people run (Insert dungeons)
They also mentioned about rotations
GIT GUD
Learn to play

You get the idea. So I will discuss 4 things people said, Look up a build, Guide on youtube, watch people run (Insert Dungeons), and what's your rotation:

I will start this by saying even having with Mother's Sorrow set at 160, with mundus stone effects, the damage ratio with the 160 gear was exactly the same as it was in the beginning. it was still taking me on average 6-9 hits to kill anything with magic.

As far as the guides and youtube videos:
I went through as many guides and videos as I could find and very guide and every one of them all had the same exact thing in common, the guides and youtube videos have the character explained from having at least 700 cp to maxed CP, as well as all this special and very specific gear (i.E. malestrom)
a beginner isn't going to be at that CP, nor or have any of that gear. So all guides and yotuube videos are 100% useless to anyone who has a low level character.

Right now I have about 274 CP, the 5 item bonus of mothers sorrow, plus the 4 item bonus of twilight's Embrace, and It still takes me on average, 6-9 hits to kill anything, I can barely take on 3 enemies, and 98% of the time I have to kite everything and those are just normal enemies. If I have an enemy that has a 1 extra icon thing after it's health-bar it takes even longer, and I cannot take on any enemy that has 2 icon things after their health bar.

There isn't a single guide, youtube video or website, that has any actual basic beginner builds that show how to make magic do a lot of damage. This is a huge problem for players who are being told by the community that magic has the highest DPS and is so good, but are never told magic requires max CP and special and specific gear. So not knowing this they barely do enough damage, and do not believe anyone that says magic is good.

The point here is, you cannot say magic is so good and then not explain the special conditions required to become that good. People are just acting like magic is just good from the start and it's not.

Another major problem I found that a lot of people are failing to see that somehow don't even acknowledge what I say which is something I actually did in the game.
I took the high elf sorc and changed 2 things on it. Keep in mind that what I'm about to explain was done on a high elf sorc

I created 2 one handed axes, hundings rage, I redid a few skill points from the magic to Dual wield and a morphed rapid strikes skill and this was the result:

I was able to do 10 times more damage and take on 5 enemies and kill everything in about 4-7 hits with a crappy build and half assed not even good set up, on a magic based character.

[snip] I was able to do far more damage and do things and take on enemies with a small tweak to a magic based character so ti was [snip] and sloppy, than I could ever do with a character that was built specifically for it's specific purpose. That shows something is wrong here.

A character that was actually set up in accordance to it's function, did far worse than a character that was thrown together with garbage equipment with skills and attacks that do not even fit the character itself.

A high elf sorc isn't a dual wield character, it's specialty is MAGIC. Sure you can argue it can be built like that, but a nightblade which is meant for dual wield, would be far more effective at dual wield than a high elf sorc so you wouldn't make a high elf sorc for dual wield.


The overall aspect I'm talking about in this thread is, the start of the game is going to put into effect a persons perspective on whatever they choose to play. In the case of myself and this high elf sorc (A character that has the highest magic in the game which means according to people has the highest DPS, requires the character to perform well just by it's default nature. Since it doesn't magic has left a very bad taste in my mouth due to I have personally tested what people said and it didn't do anything except show that people aren't being truthful.

Anyone that says magic can still be decent at a low level without all this CP and special gear is being untruthful. Like the dual wield A magic based character should still be abel to do pretty decent damage without all that CP and gear and it doesn't. And to make matters worse, a magic based character that can take *** and total garbage and do well just by changing around some skill points and weapons while leaving everything else on the character exactly the same, and do better, is just more convincing magic is just not doable while waiting to get to cp 810 and requiring the specific gear.

Furthermore, the fact there is no beginners guild that shows magic being good in the game presents a contradiction and thus turns a player off from magic. People want to have magic be good when they play the game, not have to play the game without it until they reach the very end, then start using it. I would be interested in seeing an actual guild that shows a beginning high elf SORC no stamina builds doing good da,age with magic without any CP and gear and maybe just some basic sets or something. I want to see it in action.

This isn't asking for help, this is saying if people are going to say magic is good, then you really need to back up that claim by provide actual beginner information videos and or guides.

Right now the only guides and videos that exists have the character already at close to, or max CP and all special end game gear a beginning isn't going to have.

So those guides do not help beginners and instead all they do is show that magic is only good after you've gotten to end game content

[edited for baiting]

Vevvev

Reason magicka is so strong is thanks to the Maelstrom staff and the versatility of its abilities. I read through your post and you pointed out how low your CP is, and the fact you don't have that staff, and that's why you're not hitting so high. Stamina has always beaten magicka in regards to just raw damage while magicka builds have to refine their builds into perfectly well tuned machines to hit as high as they do.

WrathOfInnos

I’d say both Magicka and Stamina require end game gear to reach their full potential. In general for solo content I’d say Stamina does more damage, but Magicka has more utility and survivability. Magicka peak damage requires a lot of group support, mostly because their sustain is very bad compared to Stamina builds.

Even in end game content with optimal groups, Stamina will do more damage than Magicka for a pure parse fight. Magicka just seems to pull ahead if there are any mechanics involved that force you out of melee range. vAS and vCR are great examples of this, and make Stamina DPS difficult. Stamina seems to do fine in older trials, as well as vSS and vKA. Still debatable which build is better in a few of these.

Starlock

I didn't read all that wall of text, especially after the (to my mind) unnecessary preamble, but the moral of the story I take from this is:

Don't waste your time with guides. Play your way, experiment on your own, discover what works for you. What works for one person may not work for you.

josiahva

You can say all you like that magicka isn't any good....but you fail to provide details of your build such as CP allocation, attribute point allocation, rotation, etc etc etc. Magicka plays differently than Stamina, aside from bow builds, all stamina builds are melee ranged, and stamina abilities cost less than their magicka equivalents...this means that if you are button mashing, you will run out of magicka faster than stamina, and as a result do less damage. As magicka, if you are in light armor vs stamina in medium armor, you are also squishier, meaning you are forced to kite enemies more, as as you noted, more movement means less DPS. You also have to realize that most of the DPS numbers people post are in a controlled parsing environment, whether its a trial dummy, or a trial stack and burn, there is little movement required if you are getting heals spammed on you.

As for saying that all the builds out there require specific gear...that is simply not true. Alcast for example has builds based both on max CP and all the best gear, as well as beginner accessible equivalents and low CP. Then there is the fact that because of the easy access to healing abilities, surviving on a magicka based character is far easier than a stamina based one and that is worth something. In the end the choice of what to play(or to main) is going to come down to individual playstyle. If you enjoy playing stamina more and do more damage as stamina...play stamina, its really no problem at all until you get down to organized and regimented trial groups....and personally for me the game stops being fun when you have to wear what you are told and slot the skills you are told...at that point its more like work...all well and good for those pushing scores, but not everyone enjoys that type of thing.

VaranisArano

When I started my second character, I started on a mag sorc and then swapped to a stam sorc build. Everything got so much easier!

What I didn't realize at the time was that Stam Sorc gets a lot of its AOE skills pretty early, and that made a big difference in how quickly I was chewing through groups of enemies. When everything around me takes chip damage from hurricane, its a lot easier to dual wield them to death than if I were trying to take them down one at a time. I got to see that play out when I tried a StamDK who didn't have that AOE - she had a much harder time starting out. So its not necessarily a mag vs Stam thing, so much as ESO really wants players to use AOEs against mobs but never teaches this.

Ironically, I think Stam Sorc is the easiest beginner build I've played with No CP, largely because of that early AOE damage. My AD MagSorc came close IF I used a lightning staff for the AOE damage on mobs and the Wall of Elements skill.

That being said, I did complete Summerset on a No CP leveling MagBlade and Morrowind on a No CP leveling MagWarden. (I discount my first character, a heavy-armor 1H&S MagDK, because I had no clue what I was doing.) What ESO doesn't teach players, but was crucial to my success, is knowing to always use an AOE DOT like Wall of Elements when fighting more than one enemy. Stamina characters often use a bow/Endless hail for that same purpose. The ongoing damage from the DOT helps chip down my enemies' health and means I use less skills to kill them, which was pretty crucial when I didn't have the higher stats and passives my other characters get from CP.

Marcus_Brody

Vevvev wrote: »

Reason magicka is so strong is thanks to the Maelstrom staff and the versatility of its abilities. I read through your post and you pointed out how low your CP is, and the fact you don't have that staff, and that's why you're not hitting so high. Stamina has always beaten magicka in regards to just raw damage while magicka builds have to refine their builds into perfectly well tuned machines to hit as high as they do.

You're all failing to get the point to this topic so let me simplify it. What a player sees at the beginning of the game is exactly how the player is going to feel towards that entire section of the game. First of all stop talking about using Stamina in a magic build, stamina isn't magic and thus doesn't apply. I do not care about what people did this is about a high elf sorc doing MAGIC not stam builds..

As I said there isn't a single guide or video that shows how to get anywhere near decent damage on a high elf sorc without end game content and near max to max CP.

You do not need CP at all or any real sets to get good damage with Dual wield. So people trying to point out how CP was allocated for magic or not having end game gear is an idiotic counter argument because this is about magic in general.

It isn't supposed to be taking 9 hits to kill an enemy with magic regardless of your level and with or without CP and or top end gear.
it shouldn't have problems taking on 3 enemies
You shouldn't have to kite every enemy to kill it

Magic has all 3 of those problems and it shouldn't

Pauwer

It depends on your own playstyle. I can't be any good on magsorc in pvp, i just suck. I see others play magsorc fantastic. I can't. I can play stamsorc great. I wish i was good at mag dps too, but it just ain't happening. I'm stam type of player in eso.

Mag heals i can play though!

Vevvev

Marcus_Brody wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Reason magicka is so strong is thanks to the Maelstrom staff and the versatility of its abilities. I read through your post and you pointed out how low your CP is, and the fact you don't have that staff, and that's why you're not hitting so high. Stamina has always beaten magicka in regards to just raw damage while magicka builds have to refine their builds into perfectly well tuned machines to hit as high as they do.

You're all failing to get the point to this topic so let me simplify it. What a player sees at the beginning of the game is exactly how the player is going to feel towards that entire section of the game. First of all stop talking about using Stamina in a magic build, stamina isn't magic and thus doesn't apply. I do not care about what people did this is about a high elf sorc doing MAGIC not stam builds..

As I said there isn't a single guide or video that shows how to get anywhere near decent damage on a high elf sorc without end game content and near max to max CP.

You do not need CP at all or any real sets to get good damage with Dual wield. So people trying to point out how CP was allocated for magic or not having end game gear is an idiotic counter argument because this is about magic in general.

It isn't supposed to be taking 9 hits to kill an enemy with magic regardless of your level and with or without CP and or top end gear.
it shouldn't have problems taking on 3 enemies
You shouldn't have to kite every enemy to kill it

Magic has all 3 of those problems and it shouldn't

You're confusing me even further as I never talked about using stamina in magicka builds because that's the dumbest thing you can do unless you're tanking, and lets be honest here that role is where hybrids make sense. Now if we're talking about using stamina to sprint, break free, dodge roll, and bash then yes it helps to add stamina to your magicka build, especially in PVP.

Also my magicka build kills things in 1-2 hits so you're clearly doing something wrong here, and as a few pointed out you're not telling us what your actual build is. And the reason why all those builds online use endgame gear is because that's the meta and where it all makes sense. You also probably have never seen Alcast's website because he puts different tiers of builds starting from things a new player just starting off would have access to and ending with the cream of the crop perfectly refined meta build of ultimate doom 9,000.

kringled_1

I think your starting premise is just off. I've never had a problem starting magicka characters using just basic crafted sets to level (usually seduces and Julianos), and I never noticed the kind of issues you describe. Stam in the same kind of setup (hunding's and maybe nmg) is usually similar in damage but maybe lacking in self heals (class dependent) and a bit more vulnerable because you need to be melee range. I can only conclude that you probably made some significant error in your magicka setup that you did not repeat in your stamina setup, but without more information I can't be sure what it was. Certainly there's a lot to take in for a new player to build an effective character in this game, but I have no idea what the stamina /magicka gap you describe came from because it's not really there in my experience.

Marcus_Brody

If you cannot do damage with magic without somehow involving Stamina, then you're not using a straight magic based character

A high elf sorc is a pure magic character and doesn't use stam as per it's basic design.
Dual wield as per it's design doesn't use magic as it's not part of it's base design.

people are confusing being able to use Stamina on magic or magic on dual wield, with the characters base design use.

You can put light armor on a tank, but just because you can, doesn't mean it belongs because a tanks base design is heavy armor. Just because the game allows you to use light armor on a tank, doesn't mean it belongs there. That same concept applies to using Stamina ona high elf sorc, sure the game allows it, but a high elf sorc is magic not stamina. It simply doesn't go. Being able to, doesn't equate into it's part of it.

kringled_1

Nobody who is responding to the OP is talking about using stamina abilities on a magicka character.

Tandor

I guess all of this depends not just on the build, gear, and spec generally, on which we've had one or two pointers from the OP, but it also depends massively on the content we're talking about - and we've not had any information on that at all.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

sarahthes

Fully leveled and geared magsorcs do the most damage in group content with an optimized group.

Context is important.

They are also the best class for solo play but it's not because of their damage. It's because they have a class shield and very strong self heals.

sarahthes

As an addendum, just switching your second set to Julianos would give you a lot more damage than 4 pieces of Twilight's Embrace - and it's craftable, meaning it's accessible to everyone (people sell it in guild traders, or you can ask a friend to make it for you if you don't have crafting leveled high enough). Every single beginners guide I have read points to Julianos as the single best beginners set for a Magicka toon.

Magsorcs are also strong because their pets do free damage for them. You should be playing a 2 pet build. Let your pets kite the mobs, that's their job so you don't have to.

Finally, magsorcs are strong because they have a very easy rotation compared to other Magicka classes and compared to any stamina class that isn't a stamplar. The unstable familiar and the bird do damage even without you activating their abilities so you can literally get away with a very simple 5 skill rotation: daedric prey, unstable wall, crit surge, force pulse, and crystal frags (use when it procs).

As you learn the class better you can play around with other builds and activating the pets and stuff like that but what I posted above will get you through any overland content. Slot hardened ward as your last skill on your front bar (dots/long lasting abilities on backbar) and spam your shield if things get sketchy. On the plus side that will also give you more frag procs.

Marcus_Brody

sarahthes wrote: »

Every single beginners guide I have read points to Julianos as the single best beginners set for a Magicka toon.

First off that is 100% false - Wrothgar at the Boreal Forge, is the only place in the game Julianos can be crafted, which requires the player to have a paid access either through ESO + or outright buying the Wrothgar DLC. SO it's irrelevant what any guide says, it isn't accessible by everyone it's only accessible by everyone who has that DLC. [snip]

and once again..There is no such thing as a beginners guide. No guide shows how to do anything with magic from regular levels 1-50 (NO CP AND NO SPECIAL GEAR it's all high to max CP or without having a purchased piece of content.
Now if you can show me a guide that has no special conditions or paid requirement that allows a magic character to do well, then please point one out because I find this interesting how everyone keep saying beginners guide, but yet it all require very special circumstances

sarahthes wrote: »

Magsorcs are also strong because their pets do free damage for them. You should be playing a 2 pet build. Let your pets kite the mobs, that's their job so you don't have to.

I have used a 2 pet build and it's trash. either the pets died pretty quickly or the enemies ignored the summons and still came after me with almost full health bars, and this was after I was hitting the enemy with spells.

sarahthes wrote: »

Finally, magsorcs are strong because they have a very easy rotation compared to other Magicka classes and compared to any stamina class that isn't a stamplar.

That is untrue, They are only strong AFTER near max or max CP and end game gear is being used. Being strong and only being strong after explicit conditions have been satisfied are 2 different things.
Do not say magic is strong as if it just is..it's not. It's weak without max CP and special gear.

sarahthes wrote: »

The unstable familiar and the bird do damage even without you activating their abilities so you can literally get away with a very simple 5 skill rotation: daedric prey, unstable wall, crit surge, force pulse, and crystal frags (use when it procs).

I don't know what you're talking about with this because I've used 2 pets, and it's absolute garbage. The only summon that does anything remotely for damage is the ultimate atronarch. The winged twilight is only good for healing. I don't know what the clanfear is supposed to be doing.

sarahthes wrote: »

As you learn the class better you can play around with other builds and activating the pets and stuff like that but what I posted above will get you through any overland content. Slot hardened ward as your last skill on your front bar (dots/long lasting abilities on backbar) and spam your shield if things get sketchy. On the plus side that will also give you more frag procs.

No clue what you're even talking about here. The only thing a high elf sorc can attack with and do damage is lighting, and lightning damage is total garbage damage because it's AOE. You cannot learn anything, you put skills in and use them.

I have about 1800 spell power and I'm at CP 274. This simply means that there is no amount of skills, or order the skills are activated/cast in, will change I still only have 1800 spell power total. There is no possible way to do more damage than you listed in the character stat screen.

[snip]I've asked for an example layout of an order, and no one can give me one, plus that information isn't listed in any guide. The guides are for max CP with end game gear.

[edited for baiting]

SpacemanSpiff1

Marcus_Brody wrote: »

No clue what you're even talking about here. The only thing a high elf sorc can attack with and do damage is lighting, and lightning damage is total garbage damage because it's AOE. You cannot learn anything, you put skills in and use them.

fire staves are a thing.

VaranisArano

Marcus_Brody wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Every single beginners guide I have read points to Julianos as the single best beginners set for a Magicka toon.

First off that is 100% false - Wrothgar at the Boreal Forge, is the only place in the game Julianos can be crafted, which requires the player to have a paid access either through ESO + or outright buying the Wrothgar DLC. SO it's irrelevant what any guide says, it isn't accessible by everyone it's only accessible by everyone who has that DLC. [snip]

and once again..There is no such thing as a beginners guide. No guide shows how to do anything with magic from regular levels 1-50 (NO CP AND NO SPECIAL GEAR it's all high to max CP or without having a purchased piece of content.
Now if you can show me a guide that has no special conditions or paid requirement that allows a magic character to do well, then please point one out because I find this interesting how everyone keep saying beginners guide, but yet it all require very special circumstances

Er, Julianos is a crafted set.

The catch is that you go to a guild trader and find the set for sale.
Or you ask in zone chat if you can pay someone to make you a set of Julianos.
Or you ask in your guild if someone can make you a Julianos set.

You don't need ESO+ or Wrothgar to get and wear Julianos.


Also, for 1 to 50 builds, you've seen the in-game Skills Advisor when you level up, right? ZOS has an in game "Sorcerer Initiate" and "Elemental Arcanist" build for players to follow. Its not perfect, in my opinion, but its there and it gets the job done. And I suspect that the Skill Advisor is a major reason why there are so few level 1 to 50 build guides. Why duplicate what ZOS has done?

Magdalina

So much text that's all missing the actually important info. 'Required 10 hits to kill something and struggled to survive' is meaningless out of context.

You were trying to survive...what? A dungeon? A vet dungeon? A public dungeon? A world boss? A regular open world mob? That's completely different things here.

You were doing 10 hits of...what? 10 light attacks? 10 ulti casts? 10 abilities (which abilities if so?) ?

Mettaricana

Marcus_Brody wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Every single beginners guide I have read points to Julianos as the single best beginners set for a Magicka toon.

First off that is 100% false - Wrothgar at the Boreal Forge, is the only place in the game Julianos can be crafted, which requires the player to have a paid access either through ESO + or outright buying the Wrothgar DLC. SO it's irrelevant what any guide says, it isn't accessible by everyone it's only accessible by everyone who has that DLC. [snip]

and once again..There is no such thing as a beginners guide. No guide shows how to do anything with magic from regular levels 1-50 (NO CP AND NO SPECIAL GEAR it's all high to max CP or without having a purchased piece of content.
Now if you can show me a guide that has no special conditions or paid requirement that allows a magic character to do well, then please point one out because I find this interesting how everyone keep saying beginners guide, but yet it all require very special circumstances

sarahthes wrote: »

Magsorcs are also strong because their pets do free damage for them. You should be playing a 2 pet build. Let your pets kite the mobs, that's their job so you don't have to.

I have used a 2 pet build and it's trash. either the pets died pretty quickly or the enemies ignored the summons and still came after me with almost full health bars, and this was after I was hitting the enemy with spells.

sarahthes wrote: »

Finally, magsorcs are strong because they have a very easy rotation compared to other Magicka classes and compared to any stamina class that isn't a stamplar.

That is untrue, They are only strong AFTER near max or max CP and end game gear is being used. Being strong and only being strong after explicit conditions have been satisfied are 2 different things.
Do not say magic is strong as if it just is..it's not. It's weak without max CP and special gear.

sarahthes wrote: »

The unstable familiar and the bird do damage even without you activating their abilities so you can literally get away with a very simple 5 skill rotation: daedric prey, unstable wall, crit surge, force pulse, and crystal frags (use when it procs).

I don't know what you're talking about with this because I've used 2 pets, and it's absolute garbage. The only summon that does anything remotely for damage is the ultimate atronarch. The winged twilight is only good for healing. I don't know what the clanfear is supposed to be doing.

sarahthes wrote: »

As you learn the class better you can play around with other builds and activating the pets and stuff like that but what I posted above will get you through any overland content. Slot hardened ward as your last skill on your front bar (dots/long lasting abilities on backbar) and spam your shield if things get sketchy. On the plus side that will also give you more frag procs.

No clue what you're even talking about here. The only thing a high elf sorc can attack with and do damage is lighting, and lightning damage is total garbage damage because it's AOE. You cannot learn anything, you put skills in and use them.

I have about 1800 spell power and I'm at CP 274. This simply means that there is no amount of skills, or order the skills are activated/cast in, will change I still only have 1800 spell power total. There is no possible way to do more damage than you listed in the character stat screen.

[snip] I've asked for an example layout of an order, and no one can give me one, plus that information isn't listed in any guide. The guides are for max CP with end game gear.

[Snip] the game is literally the easiest mmo out there. You can join a guild ask if they have a a julianos crafting station(and before you quote paid bs you can attune a crafting statiom set to a station that cannbe placed in houses for anyone inside to use dlc or not)

The pets do damage the clannfear is a stamina morpg so you're already using the wrong skill use the scamp amd the twilight together slot a damage shield hardened ward or any of ots mprphs is better than nothing. If your daying a ton and getting rolled all over try a food bonus get witch mothers potent brew. The recipe is common as hell even when the event is not happening to drop it.

Now for skills slot crystal frags ONLY FRAGS not the other morphs don't cast it like its a life line casting spells of any kind will make the skill light up cast instantly for less cost and more damage. If its not lit up start lightning heavy attacking with said staff throw down wall of elements from destruction staff skill line heavy attacking will make your pets target the enemy rather than do whatever all you need to do is keep wall refeshed, drop some heavy attacks throw some frags and exevute with mages fury or any morph and shield up when being attacked. Now for cp do follow alcast as he can give you a basic idea wjere the cp needs to be for maximum damage and survival. It's not as hard as you make it out to be dont even need the best gear in the game if you atleast figure out the classes skills and when to use them. Skill os more important than gear there's players with white cp160 gear who can part higher than some random with gold everything best in slot guide gear as long as they know what their doing. But if sorcerer is to hard for you then pick something else. Stamina templar can survive almost anything pressing 1 button.

[Edited for rude content]

Marcus_Brody

Guilds have nothing to do with magic is not good or not.
Sets have nothing to do with magic is good or not
julianos is only in a DLC area so trying to say you can buy it doesn't apply and nor is a valid counter argument, it's still in a DCL area so it doesn't matter if one can cheat the game to gain access to it, a set shouldn't be required to have a character built for magic, to function well.

Magic cannot require all these specializations and gear and other garbage and be called good that isn't how that works. Dual wield is a prime example of what I'm talking about, if I can put random crap equipment on a magic based character not even designed for dual wield, and do well, then I sure as *** should be able to do that same thing with magic.

Faded

Marcus_Brody wrote: »

and once again..There is no such thing as a beginners guide. No guide shows how to do anything with magic from regular levels 1-50 (NO CP AND NO SPECIAL GEAR it's all high to max CP or without having a purchased piece of content.
Now if you can show me a guide that has no special conditions or paid requirement that allows a magic character to do well, then please point one out because I find this interesting how everyone keep saying beginners guide, but yet it all require very special circumstances

https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-beginner-guide/

Alcast will hold your hand for every skill point allocation and reassure you constantly that your gear doesn't matter much, although training trait is nice. He wrote that just for players like you.

You're welcome.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

Smexykins

This thread has to be bait, right? Like, they've already explained to you what you need to do to get better dps. I dunno if I can even say anything to help. You talk about fire staff not working on a lightning character but that's not how the game works at all? They suggested fire staff because the DPS is simply better for any magicka character than a lightning staff and that's just a fact. There is nothing in the game stopping you from using it over lightning. Now if you prefer lighting, that's up to you. Pet sorc builds love lighting staves because it's easy to sit there and heavy attack but you have to realize the gap you're creating for yourself. I like to use ice staves as a DPS, but I'm not gonna complain when my dps is 10%+ lower than fire.

You obviously aren't comprehending some of the basic stuff these guys are trying to tell you, and I'm not trying to be negative about it, but you really need to read what they're saying. Maybe pick an easier class like templar or something? You only have to press like 1 or 2 buttons for mag or stam lol

VaranisArano

Marcus_Brody wrote: »

julianos is only in a DLC area so trying to say you can buy it doesn't apply and nor is a valid counter argument, it's still in a DCL area so it doesn't matter if one can cheat the game to gain access to it, a set shouldn't be required to have a character built for magic, to function well.

Okay, we've hit the point in this discussion at which buying a DLC crafting set for sale at a guild trader or asking someone to craft it for you or using a guild's Julianos-attuned crafting station is "cheating the game" to gain access to it.

Good grief. Its not. Those are all perfectly legitimate and fairly common ways for players who didn't buy Orsinium to get the Julianos set.

If you want ZOS and guide writers to take your complaint seriously, its a good idea to get your details correct instead of accusing people of exploiting when they aren't.

(And I leveled my MagSorc with the Seducer crafted set and random gear picked up from questing. Julianos is the better set, but its not necessary.)

Marcus_Brody

Smexykins wrote: »

This thread has to be bait, right? Like, they've already explained to you what you need to do to get better dps.

Go read the top of this post because I'm now placing you on ignore for this reply. You totally ignored everything I said and pulled the defending help being pushed when it wasn't asked for line of crap.

Smexykins

Marcus_Brody wrote: »

Smexykins wrote: »

This thread has to be bait, right? Like, they've already explained to you what you need to do to get better dps.

Go read the top of this post because I'm now placing you on ignore for this reply. You totally ignored everything I said and pulled the defending help being pushed when it wasn't asked for line of crap.

I read it all and you make zero sense. At CP 160, obviously you aren't gonna do the max damage. That's just how the game works. You aren't gonna just equip a staff and expect to pull even minimal DPS. And also, nightblades are no better than sorcs at using dual blades. Your race might change your damage by 1 or 2% but it's so small that it doesn't matter. All classes can use all weapons and that goes for all races as well.

ghost_bg_ESO

yup stamina is the new meta and will be this year too, cause "medium armor is slippery"(that reveal stream about armor reworks).
i'm playing solo pve (non-dlc normal and some vet, just have started torturing myself through normal dlc). my magcro(my main) needs golden, all divines armors to do that what i can do with my stamcro(freshly fast leveled) with purple whatever traits. my stamden(wood elf) is better than my mag den(high elf). my stamblade is better than my magblade.

Marcus_Brody

VaranisArano wrote: »

Okay, we've hit the point in this discussion at which buying a DLC crafting set for sale at a guild trader or asking someone to craft it for you or using a guild's Julianos-attuned crafting station is "cheating the game" to gain access to it.

WRONG By-pasing having the DLC by buying an item to get it in order to gain access to it doesn't make you obtaining that item legitimately. If you don't have the DLC you shouldn't have it in your possession and thus didn't obtain it legitimately. If you do have it in your possession without access to the area you cheated to get it.

I'm really so sick and tired of reading crap statements from gamers on excuse making as legitimate by manipulating a certain system in the game UNRELATED TO the issue itself. Buying an item cannot be used as an excuse to obtain an item you have to pay to access the area that item is in.

The bottom line with this topic is simple:
Magic is weak, and it's horrible for leveling. The ony time magic is usable is once youo hit near MAX CP or max cp with all sorts of special gear.

Also anyone who thinks Alcast holds your hand step by step for beginning builds is either delusional, a liar, or didn't pay close attention to what stats the character stats are. Every Alcast video/guide uses a character with near max - max CP, and all the special gear.

Without near max-max CP, and special gear, the skill set ups and order in ALcast videos/guides are 100% obsolete for a new player and low level character.

Sanctum74

Many people here have tried to help you, but you insist on being rude and telling everyone they are wrong when it’s you that is clearly wrong. Buying gear or having it crafted is not cheating in any way, shape, or form, feel free to ask Zos.

Alcasts guides are very informative for new players, as mentioned by Faded above he actually tells you what to do for every 5 levels, if that’s not holding your hand then I don’t know what is. Xynode and Dotts are also helpful for beginners as well as many other players on Youtube, google, twitch, and even the forums if you take the time to read what people have to say instead of arguing.

There are so many variables to the game then just being a high elf sorc. Generally speaking you should be wearing 2 5 piece sets and a 2 piece monster set. Your mundus stone choice, armor type, traits, glyphs, food, skills and morphs, passives, attributes, penetration, max magic, rotation, etc all make a huge difference, but I guess you know all that already.

VaranisArano

Marcus_Brody wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Okay, we've hit the point in this discussion at which buying a DLC crafting set for sale at a guild trader or asking someone to craft it for you or using a guild's Julianos-attuned crafting station is "cheating the game" to gain access to it.

WRONG By-pasing having the DLC by buying an item to get it in order to gain access to it doesn't make you obtaining that item legitimately. If you don't have the DLC you shouldn't have it in your possession and thus didn't obtain it legitimately. If you do have it in your possession without access to the area you cheated to get it.

I'm really so sick and tired of reading crap statements from gamers on excuse making as legitimate by manipulating a certain system in the game UNRELATED TO the issue itself. Buying an item cannot be used as an excuse to obtain an item you have to pay to access the area that item is in.

No, that's not how craftable and Bind on Equip gear works. Crafted and other BOE gear can be bought and sold without owning the DLC or Chapter content it comes from. Go up to any Guild Trader and look at the gear sets you can buy - there is no requirement that you own the content to buy them. That's doubly true given that ZOS created attuned crafting stations specifically to allow guilds to grant members access to set crafting stations regardless of whether the member owns the content or not.

Only Bind on Pickup gear requires access to the DLC/Chapter to acquire. That's the gear you would get from Dungeons, Trials, Arenas, and Antiquities. Since the player has to pickup the gear, that means they must participate in the content, so they need to have access to it. Usually that means owning it, unless there's an ESO+ trial going on where ZOS gives free access to all DLC. We just had one of those, and I'm sure lots of players were farming BOP gear for the stickerbook.

If a player who doesn't own Orsinium wants Julianos, ZOS allows them to obtain that crafted set legitimately.

But I'm growing tired of obviously incorrect accusations that players who use the very systems ZOS designed are cheating. If you don't want to use Julianos, you don't have to. There's no need for you to continue to spread misinformation about other players who do want to use it.