End the bar swapping?

quinten1221

Hi.

This is probably going to be a heated discussion with veteran players in the game. I'm a veteran player aswell, playing since the beta.

But what i cant deny is that i hate the bar swapping in this game for max dps. It's anoying as hell. Why not just 1 bar with 10 abilities slots? I know they are not gonna change this because to many players use the bar swapping method and the dps would be insane (i think). I always played with 1 bar because its the most fun for me, im a left handed gamer which makes it really hard to use the bar swapping method aswell (dont want to use controller haha). These are just my thoughts but let me know yours

Bergzorn

Two bars means you can use two different weapons and thus get access to a broader variety of skills. That's basically a must have, at least for PvP.

adriant1978

IMO, lack of bar space in this game is something which really hurts build diversity and pushes people towards using cookie cutter setups.

Ghnami

Bar swapping always seemed cool to me, I hated how they've made it necessary though, I would love a way to not bar swap and still have the same impact, like have an ult that forces one bar and can be toggled, but gives you offensive/defensive/utility bonuses that make up for not having a back bar like enchant procs and passive buffs. Would also take away the ult, so it'd have a high cost, but you'd be able to not swap and play just as well.

Even with one bar and 10 abilities having two weapons with two types and two enchants is too good

jaws343

It's because they aren't going to design the combat differently for PC and Console. Console cannot have 10 skills on one bar, we don't have anywhere near enough buttons to manage that without bar swapping. That and two weapon types would not be possible/reasonable without bar swapping.

TwiceBornStar

I would love to see just one extra slot on our abilities bar. That wouldn't increase our DPS by too much, would it? I usually leave out a healing skill, an armor skill or some kind of damage shield because.. Well, because!

For example, I've got a Nightblade with:

1. Piercing Mark.
2. Leeching Strikes.
3. Phantasmal Escape.
4. (Insert weapon skill here!)
5. (Bummer, I have to choose between Killer's Blade or Concealed Weapon now?)

So. We're not looking at the best bar ever, are we? Nope. I know!

Okay, so we're going to ditch the weapon skill for Concealed Weapon, so I can use both Killer's Blade and Concealed Weapon. (But what's the use of having a weapon skill line then?)

Yeah, I can hear you think, you should definitely ditch Phantasmal Escape or Piercing Mark, but these abilities can be quite handy, and they don't really do any damage. Fair enough, Piercing Mark enables me to do some extra damage, but it's nothing too extreme? I understand you guys don't want to see a huge increase in damage because of one lousy extra slot, because you just painstakingly went through the whole process of trying to balance an enormous and gigantic game, but wait!

Idea! (I'm a genius, I swear!)

What if (IF!) we had an extra slot much like the potion or the ultimate slot, but in this case you'd only be allowed to put buffs and debuffs here? (Armor skills, etc!)

Would that be a good idea? Because everytime I make a character, I seem to be at least three slots short of where I want to be, so you could consider this a compromise?

You know you want to agree with this, right?

MellowMagic

As a left handed player myself I find utilizing mouse buttons makes a world of difference.

Xerge

quinten1221 wrote: »

Hi.

This is probably going to be a heated discussion with veteran players in the game. I'm a veteran player aswell, playing since the beta.

But what i cant deny is that i hate the bar swapping in this game for max dps. It's anoying as hell. Why not just 1 bar with 10 abilities slots? I know they are not gonna change this because to many players use the bar swapping method and the dps would be insane (i think). I always played with 1 bar because its the most fun for me, im a left handed gamer which makes it really hard to use the bar swapping method aswell (dont want to use controller haha). These are just my thoughts but let me know yours

Hi, I am a left handed end game player who manages a busy discord server. I can tell you us south paws have the advantage for bar swapping. My big trick is keybinding barswap to the ctrl button, the next trick is to use PC software to swap capslock and control. Now your pinky finger should be resting on the letter A and next to your new barswap button.

I love barswap

Ghnami

Oh and real gamechanger for me with bar swap was binding it to scroll wheel. It feels so much better on m&k to swap with a flick. Gives good combat rhythm/animation cancelling opportunity too because it's so accessible.

manny254

I don't understand why being left handed would have anything to do with bar swap. You can bind bar swap to be any key or mouse button of your own choice.

I am left handed, and I actually think this is an advantage in ESO. I bind weapon swap and dodge roll to my 2 side mouse buttons and use standard ESO controls for skills. This means my skills end up being used by my dominant hand.

Majkiy

I am left handed as well and I use default keybinds to play DPS and main tanking Excuses, excuses. Only thing I binded is roll dodge. Other than that I use default keys to play dps without any issue. So it's just about getting used to it? I guess.

RunForTheHills

I am right handed, but it looks like Razer makes a left handed version of their Naga MMO mouse. Too bad that they don't make a left handed version of the Tartarus.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I would love to see just one extra slot on our abilities bar. That wouldn't increase our DPS by too much, would it? I usually leave out a healing skill, an armor skill or some kind of damage shield because.. Well, because!

For example, I've got a Nightblade with:

1. Piercing Mark.
2. Leeching Strikes.
3. Phantasmal Escape.
4. (Insert weapon skill here!)
5. (Bummer, I have to choose between Killer's Blade or Concealed Weapon now?)

So. We're not looking at the best bar ever, are we? Nope. I know!

Okay, so we're going to ditch the weapon skill for Concealed Weapon, so I can use both Killer's Blade and Concealed Weapon. (But what's the use of having a weapon skill line then?)

Yeah, I can hear you think, you should definitely ditch Phantasmal Escape or Piercing Mark, but these abilities can be quite handy, and they don't really do any damage. Fair enough, Piercing Mark enables me to do some extra damage, but it's nothing too extreme? I understand you guys don't want to see a huge increase in damage because of one lousy extra slot, because you just painstakingly went through the whole process of trying to balance an enormous and gigantic game, but wait!

Idea! (I'm a genius, I swear!)

What if (IF!) we had an extra slot much like the potion or the ultimate slot, but in this case you'd only be allowed to put buffs and debuffs here? (Armor skills, etc!)

Would that be a good idea? Because everytime I make a character, I seem to be at least three slots short of where I want to be, so you could consider this a compromise?

You know you want to agree with this, right?

Adding a bar slot would simply increase the already vast skill gap in this game. Good players would go, great, one more DOT, Buff, Debuff, whatever to juggle, no biggie. Less skilled players who already struggle to use the 6 skill slots we have or swap bars would just be further behind.

To the OP: Leave bar swapping alone, it works great as is. I see no reason to dumb down the combat system that has worked just fine for years.

Freakin_Hytte

This doesn't have much about the thread, I'm also left handed but have always played right handed. How are you even able to play as left handed?

I've tried it, but even as a left handed person I've never understood how people are able to use it when everything is made for right handed

On topic: I'm against removing bar swapping, but can understand it's a pain if played with left hand on mouse.

Juhasow

Go play werewolf.

zvavi

How would having 6 more keys for second bar easier to use than 1 bar swap button?!

Vevvev

I hate games that force me to reach over and press additional buttons after 5. I like bar swapping for the convenience of not having to reach for things since I don't have 3 hands. Having these large bars makes sense for a point and click game, but ESO is more action focused and I have to move, aim, and use abilities all at the same time. Less buttons is better in this scenario.

MudcrabAttack

quinten1221 wrote: »

Hi.

But what i cant deny is that i hate the bar swapping in this game for max dps. It's anoying as hell. Why not just 1 bar with 10 abilities slots?

How about 1 bar with 1 ability? Bar swapping to take advantage of all 10 skill slots doesn't make as big of a difference anymore since DOTS were reduced.


This is the front bar only- Lethal Arrow, Lethal Arrow, Lethal Arrow, Lethal Arrow, ... Lethal Arrow, Lethal Arrow, Lethal Arrow ... etc.



Endless Hail *Bar Swap* Lethal Arrow x 12 *Bar Swap* Endless Hail *Bar Swap* Lethal Arrow x 12 etc.



Front bar only- barbed trap, incapacitating strike, Lethal arrow x 14, barbed trap, incapacitating strike, Lethal arrow x 14, etc.



Endless Hail, Ballista, *Bar Swap*, Lethal Arrow x8, *Bar Swap*, Endless Hail, *Bar Swap*, Lethal Arrow, Barbed Trap, *Bar Swap*, Dark Shade, *Bar Swap*, Incapacitating Strike, Lethal Arrow x 5, *Bar Swap*, Endless Hail etc.


That's a comparison I put together for a guildy who was curious about the differences between a full rotation and a simple rotation, and simply using one spammable over and over. Bar swapping to add endless hail + the backbar berserk enchantment buff only added around 10-15% dps. If I used a front bar build with Killers Blade as the execute, Barbed Trap for another 10% crit buff, Incapacitating Strike for 20% damage buff, stacked Assassin's Will to 5 for another 10% crit buff, used a berserker enchantment, and slotted the swamp raider set since most of that stuff is either disease or poison damage, the front-bar-only build is around 80k dps.

Granted this is a build for bow/bow, but I've seen something similar with stamplars just spamming jabs over and over.

quinten1221

Ok i didnt expect so many different comments haha!

But theres a lot of good answers here. I know there are people who can play left handed but notice how everyone says that they need to change keys or use some strange method. This wasnt my main topic tho. I just feel like every build is almost the same and the focus is on bar swapping. Maybe im just a bit use to skyrim..

Making enchanted gear to make other gear better which makes the enchanting and potion better which makes your smithing armor better etc etc... and then use maybe only a bow and a sword and shield to fight. I would like to see that making gear better makes your dps increase.. and not just green to gold/yellow. But Really making it your own so everyone is diverse.
Idk just thoughts and maybe an idea for The elder scrolls online 2 hahaha. As i said they will not change the bar swapping and accept that but i like to see other people's thoughts

Starbridge84

quinten1221 wrote: »

Hi.

This is probably going to be a heated discussion with veteran players in the game. I'm a veteran player aswell, playing since the beta.

But what i cant deny is that i hate the bar swapping in this game for max dps. It's anoying as hell. Why not just 1 bar with 10 abilities slots? I know they are not gonna change this because to many players use the bar swapping method and the dps would be insane (i think). I always played with 1 bar because its the most fun for me, im a left handed gamer which makes it really hard to use the bar swapping method aswell (dont want to use controller haha). These are just my thoughts but let me know yours

As far as having more than 5 normal abilities slots, people would just stack up on 'Whiled slotted' abilities and things would get ridiculous quick. I enjoy having my 2 bars to swap in and out with. At the touch of a button I can go from range DPS to melee DPS, or DPS to healing, or DPS to off-tanking.

Change your bindings so your keys are in a layout that you can hit easy since you play left handed? Or get a gaming pad.

NyassaV

Just add a set that disables bar swapping and gives you some nice perks for doing so. Then stop nerfing all the good players.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

NyassaV wrote: »

Just add a set that disables bar swapping and gives you some nice perks for doing so. Then stop nerfing all the good players.

I could certainly get behind that approach.

erio

Bar swapping makes the game wayyyy better than It would be without it.
Most customization, higher skill cap, etc
Dont like it? Dont play it.

quinten1221

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Just add a set that disables bar swapping and gives you some nice perks for doing so. Then stop nerfing all the good players.

I could certainly get behind that approach.

Yep best idea. Just watched the livestream. Personal companions! maybe thats the fix haha

DonGodJoe

No, no additional slots for any ability, its already enough considering abilities are spammable

SupremeRissole

There are plenty of one bar builds out there for people who dont like or arent physically capable of barswapping. Problem is console hasn't got 10 buttons to map to ability slots, they would have to change the way abilities are cast such as how BDO does (combination of buttons and stick movement).
Plus one of the beauties of ESO that differs it from a lot of its competition is the limited slots for abilities means you have to make careful decisions about what you need to make your build work, you have to compromise.

Athan1

Bar swapping is a flawed mechanic, designed simply to accommodate console players whose controler has only ~10 buttons. It's extremely annoying and unfair that cc disables bar swapping, and imo a bad mechanic.

Matchimus

I can appreciate some of the argument presented but....no. My brain could not cope with having to use another 5 buttons.

SgtNuttzmeg

It already exists. Werewolves very viable. I don't see why you guys are complaining.

JinMori

Just add another skill or two per bar.

Hesperax79

quinten1221 wrote: »

Why not just 1 bar with 10 abilities slots?

On PS4/XBOX there is not enough key for 10 active ability in one time.