Oblivion damage

AweBiTr

Anybody use it? Oblivion damage dont work in pve and dont work in pvp. Why it exists?

Waffennacht

It exists because it was so good and ZoS loves to over nerf

Strider__Roshin

I think it's been years since oblivion damage was a thing.

Grimlok_S

Infused Torugs w/ Oblivion enchant and Sloads.. what a patch that was.

Tommy_The_Gun

Oblivion dmg used to be primarily used in PvP, as it is a dmg type that ignores armour / shield / resistance - in short it deals dmg straight to health bar.

Bleed dmg used to work similar. It was ignoring resistance but there was something different about it (I don't rememberer what it was, probably it was still affected by dmg shield or something like that).

Those things apparently were considered too strong in PvP so both of them got nerfed pretty hard.
Bleed dmg now is basically a physical DOT dmg (it no longer ignores resistance).
Oblivion dmg was reduced to some tiny laughable values and is now on some situational sets only + enchant.

Torug's Pact 5 pcs bonus basically says it all: ^
(5 items) Decreases weapon enchantment cooldown by 33% and increases non Oblivion Damage weapon enchantment potency by 45%.

The whole irony is that people were crying to nerf those in the past (and it happened) and now we have "Tank Meta"...

Yeah... That happened...

No wonder we have "Tank Meta" and we will keep having it as 2 biggest counter to tank & health based builds were nerfed to oblivion (pun intended) .

ealdwin

I wouldn't be opposed to a slight buff to oblivion damage if I'm being honest. Nothing drastic, but just enough to make it hit a bit harder.

exeeter702

The concept of pure damage is fine. The issue in ESO, is that like many things that are potent, there is often little drawbacks for leaning into said potency.

In oblivion damages case, sets like sloads was simply equip the set and benefit, done deal. Everyone could simply engage with it with little effort.

An oblivion damage focused build would be great if the source of the damage forced players to hard commit to it with perhaps a negative effect on the user to make up the compromise so it doesnt become a one size fits all solution like nearly everything else in the game.

Sloads was a problem, but I remeber the loving the idea of finally having the potential to create an aggressive magicka focused ranged damage over time rot build. But of course what happened was people just slapped it on whatever build they had in place of another damage set or whatnot and called it a day.

Fawn4287

Oblivion damage is outright broken when strong with little to no counters, magsorc in the sloads meta was outright agony. Bleeds in their old state grossly over performed, pre nerfed bleeds masters axes caused between 4-5 k dps and even more with crits + poisons on top, I remember playing stamplar, heavy attack, blood craze bleeds, potl, bar swap jabs and 9/10 players were dead with a 3 ability combo. Bleeds and oblivion damage I feel however should scale better with off health + resistances of the target, dealing mediocre dot damage to low health, light armour targets and huge damage to high health, high resistance targets. The fix to the current meta is either health soft + hard caps and major nerfs to health based healing in PvP.

geonsocal

i have a magblade that uses knight slayer:
Knight Slayer
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal an additional 8% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.


not exactly a stealthy burst build

works well during siege battles...

as long as i can remember to focus on my heavy attacks it works okay...i haven't really looked at pairing it with another set for better heavy attack synergy (right now using grothdarr and spinners)

unfortunately there aren't a lot of useful pvp sets that work well with staff heavy attacks...

they absolutely destroyed queen's elegance...

BaiterOfZergs

They need to just make bleed and oblivion damage be the counter to high health builds. If you have more than 30k health the damage increases significantly and anything under does normal damage.

Tank problem gets a counter and regular builds can’t complain about them.

Kartalin

Oblivion was broken before but now that it scales with max health it is more balanced. Would be nice if shield breaker did oblivion damage again

kaithuzar

The only problem with tank builds is that you can build them so they heal & do damage the same or better than others. There is no sacrifice to some builds/classes.
The norm should be 2 out of 3, but some classes/builds are a full 3/3.
(Each of the 3 things: 1) tank, 2) heal, 3) damage )

Just doing any 2 “should” be ok, as there would be mathematical method for victory. So if they are a tank damage dealer you focus on debuffing their heals since you know that’s their weakest point.

You could make an argument about a specific team composition being the strongest, but outside of maybe BG’s there isn’t much reward for good players to fight good players in Cyrodiil.

“Lions don’t eat other lions, they eat gazelles.”

jonzhao68

kaithuzar wrote: »

The only problem with tank builds is that you can build them so they heal & do damage the same or better than others. There is no sacrifice to some builds/classes.
The norm should be 2 out of 3, but some classes/builds are a full 3/3.
(Each of the 3 things: 1) tank, 2) heal, 3) damage )

Just doing any 2 “should” be ok, as there would be mathematical method for victory. So if they are a tank damage dealer you focus on debuffing their heals since you know that’s their weakest point.

You could make an argument about a specific team composition being the strongest, but outside of maybe BG’s there isn’t much reward for good players to fight good players in Cyrodiil.

“Lions don’t eat other lions, they eat gazelles.”

Actually, I always thought that no one build should excel in more than 1 category. The way I see it, all skill effects fall into one of three categories; sustainment, damage, and support. Skills can have multiple effects that fall under different categories, but the effectiveness of those effects should be determined by the stats invested in them. Ideally, a build could maximize its damage potential, but only by completely sacrificing sustainment and support potential. If that build wanted more sustainment, then it would need to sacrifice its damage. Using this method, you could balance a skill by simply adjusting how a skill effect scales with its related stat.

kaithuzar

jonzhao68 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

The only problem with tank builds is that you can build them so they heal & do damage the same or better than others. There is no sacrifice to some builds/classes.
The norm should be 2 out of 3, but some classes/builds are a full 3/3.
(Each of the 3 things: 1) tank, 2) heal, 3) damage )

Just doing any 2 “should” be ok, as there would be mathematical method for victory. So if they are a tank damage dealer you focus on debuffing their heals since you know that’s their weakest point.

You could make an argument about a specific team composition being the strongest, but outside of maybe BG’s there isn’t much reward for good players to fight good players in Cyrodiil.

“Lions don’t eat other lions, they eat gazelles.”

Actually, I always thought that no one build should excel in more than 1 category. The way I see it, all skill effects fall into one of three categories; sustainment, damage, and support. Skills can have multiple effects that fall under different categories, but the effectiveness of those effects should be determined by the stats invested in them. Ideally, a build could maximize its damage potential, but only by completely sacrificing sustainment and support potential. If that build wanted more sustainment, then it would need to sacrifice its damage. Using this method, you could balance a skill by simply adjusting how a skill effect scales with its related stat.

Yea I can see that. I was building my argument around the mmo holy trinity, but with respect to eso theory crafting sustainability should probably be its own category. Or maybe put off to the side as an exception or caveat, as I’m not sure how I feel about a player building to infinitely spam 1 skill...
I don’t like the idea of including a support role because some classes either don’t have it, waste too much building for it, or it’s just completely terrible even if they do build for it.

I am the type of person who loves options, in fact I will make potentially bad life choices just to have more options available. But, as interesting as theory crafty has been I do think this game has too many options, which makes it impossible to balance.
Your skill doesn’t do damage try this set, or this race, or this class. Your heals don’t work try this set, or this race, or this class.
Or this mundus, or this champion point setup. The fact that all or any of the things we’ve mentioned damage, sustain, healing, tankiness, you can get any of these from multiple different sources; it’s a blessing and a curse.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

This current meta feels like it needs an oblivion damage buff. Big hp bars with yuge resistances as far as the eye can see. Give me a set that I can swap to that has big armor pen and a 5pc that makes ALL damage higher or lower depending on the hp and armor of the target. A light armor 20k hp target would get tickled by such a set, but a 30k hp heavy armor build would take massive hits. WE NEED A TANK KILLER SET!!!(that actually works and preferably melee range only)

Passive defense should be easier to counter, not harder! Got plenty of counters to active defenses(rolling, blocking, shield spells, stealth, staying at range), but passive defense(armor and hp) for some reason is ok. Defense that requires zero input > defense that requires reflexes and action. Tank metas are stinky and they belong in pve.

Maybe a simpler solution is giving armor pen out in much higher numbers. I mean if its easy to get 30k resistances then armor pen should be able to reach similar numbers just as easily. A passive offensive solution to a passive defense? I think that is why defense is so often stronger then offense in eso. The game simply lets you stack much more passive defense then passive offense. We need an unstoppable force to counter all the immovable objects. The pretty strong, but not too strong force simply isn't enough.

milllaurie

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Passive defense should be easier to counter, not harder! Got plenty of counters to active defenses(rolling, blocking, shield spells, stealth, staying at range), but passive defense(armor and hp) for some reason is ok. Defense that requires zero input > defense that requires reflexes and action. Tank metas are stinky and they belong in pve.

Don't forget we also have a passive source of healing not affected by battle spirit - HP recovery.
While I do not suggest HP recov would be nerfed by 60% like healing, I think it is a matter worth looking into.
At the moment you can just slap alessian order, malacath, 4pc stuhn, vateshran and blackrose destro and basically take every fight home without ever casting a heal.
Let us say we have 800 hp recov standing. Bewitched sugar skulls buff it to almost 1300. Alessian on max resistances add another 1300. Buff that by a potion - you get 3600. Ant that is being conservative. Some of the people I know running 4k+ hp recov. That equals 2k healing per second without ever casting any heals.
The build I mentioned earlier could also be running crimson backbar instead of the blacrose destro.

Edit. Also heavy armor gives a % value to you hp recov so in the end it is much bigger.

dcmgti

I find HP regen builds very nice on some classes and makes up for a lack of healing compared to other classes.

MindOfTheSwarm

Having Oblivion Damage attack Max health was the correct direction. It makes it strong vs high health targets and not op vs lower health players. It also had a place in pve now too as it can chunk enemies quite well.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

exeeter702 wrote: »

An oblivion damage focused build would be great if the source of the damage forced players to hard commit to it with perhaps a negative effect on the user to make up the compromise so it doesnt become a one size fits all solution like nearly everything else in the game.

You just summed up the problem with ESO's PvP.

The way that gameplay seems to revolve more around gear sets means there is no consistent trade-off with most of these things. Barring overtuned classes (Hi there, Wardens!) you have to make conscious choices with your class skill lines to take one thing over another.

But the set bonuses are just willy nilly. A set is either not worth taking, or it's meta. There seems to be no healthy balance when it comes to gear.