Autism and Gaming.

JungleHyena

I was a late diagnosed autist. I never knew why I had social issues, until I was diagnosed aged 40+. Oddly enough my father who has some background as he dealt with handicapped people in his work, had said to my mother, when I was 16:

"I think he has autism. But he is doing good at school, so lets not tell him."

I only learned that after my diagnosis.

But this is not a joke. I have struggled with social interaction all my life,... not knowing why I had these issues... until I was diagnosed and stuff clicked in my head: "Haaa that is why I reacted that time this way!"

And it is troubling me in gaming too. Like in ESO. I love the Elder Scrolls, and the online game. Yet it is giving me issues.

2 weeks or so I was kicked from a guild, no reasons given. No respectful in game mail telling why I was kicked. I was just kicked.
Another former member told me:

"Look all I can say is you were kicked because how you were. I can't say anything to it"

How I was? is vague. I can run a bar in TES, which I am. And I am fine. But that is I me, the one owning the property.... and I kinda determine things.

It goes completely different for me,... when I am on another persons property and rules.
I have serious difficulty socially interacting with the people there. Though I am trying.
I have issues socially talking in game as well. And connecting to the other players there.
I do not do this on purpose for *** sakes.

I need to meet a match. SInce release of TES it has happened to me 1 time I met a guild I liked and with a guild leader that was understanding to me. But that guild kinda died out due to the IRL obligations of the great guild leader (absence) who mostly ran it... so I had to leave it.

Myeah... I do not tell people online I am an autist. I hope to play this game and socially interact without the need to tell them.

Result? Kicked from guild because:

"Look all I can say is you were kicked because how you were. I can't say anything to it"

Goregrinder

Bummer, but you can't really control who does and doesn't want to interact with you. The only thing you can control is what you choose to take away from every situation, and to move on to the next. The good news is, there are almost 8 billion humans on planet Earth, so you're bound to find a group interested in interacting with you. It's just really up to you on whether you want to go looking for them or not.

Wolfpaw

Your best bet is to talk with someone you're comfortable with, & cares, about your concerns.

Not the internet, or a gaming forum.

Good luck.

SgtNuttzmeg

I know this is probably not what you want to hear but keep trying. It's tough. Not every guild fits every player and not every player fits every guild. That member might have told you that but they might not actually have known why. Sometimes players are removed without even fully understanding that they did something wrong. It can suck, especially if you genuinely don't know what you did. However it happens. Sometimes people need to be removed without prompt or explanation in order to deescalate a situation. Sometimes people are removed without prompt because they haven't been very active. Typically in my experience the key to maintaining a guild membership is trying to attend atleast one event a week, don't be a *** and respect any rules.

vibeborn

I've been kicked from a guild too and I'm not autistic. Though you may never know why they kicked you, there are many other guilds in the game to join. I'm sure you'll find one that'll accept you for who you are

Mettaricana

Been booted from many guilds for stupid or malicious reasons everything from getting along well with an officer i was kicked and told that i was too chummy like tf? Booted for not using mic, booted for carrying entire vet run across finish line because other 3 have a moribid attraction the red circles of death told im not a team player( apparently they aren't either). I've dealt with many autistic players includong some with minor to severe cases of impairment and asperger's. With eso though its a very hostile toxic landscape there's no forces in forum or ingame that does jack about [snip] can spam slurs and hate all day in zone chat or even some guilds report and the game devs and mods do nothing so best bet for eso playing os fond a very accepting guild. What platform you play on?

[Edited to remove Profanity]

Chaos2088

Better off without them to be honest. That behaviour of not even disscussing anything with you about sed situation before action just screams a red flag and what type/leader that guild has/is. Better off without.

Yes rejection always hurts in any form, but most time you find things/people/places that fit better and you find yourself in a situation your are more comfortable in and that works.

Neurologically diverse people often get the short end of the stick with many of the general public's lack of understanding of these situations and interactions. I am Dislexyic and often have many problems with memory which can lead to awkward convos or people thinking I am just dim, where infact it takes me a little bit longer to piece things together. i have had to spell check at least 7 words typing this. lol I digress..

If anyone raises it with you, just say how it is and if they have a problem with it/or cannot handle it. It is their problem not yours. there are quite a few people who are autisic and play ESO, one of my very close online buddies is.

There is literally millions of people who play this game.

Ackwalan

This is not directed to you specially. Being autistic does not mean you are not responsible for your actions. It has become very popular in this age, to excuse actions, and even play the victim by claiming autism. In reality, people were just being jerks.

Josira

Hello,Ive been diagnosed with Autism(Asperger's) among other things(Clinical Depression,Severe Anxiety).
it took years for me to learn how to be social/learn how to behave in social situations, as such things were alien to me once,it took until I was around 19-20 years of age before I could pass off as a somewhat functional person in social situations.
The best way of finding social groups that where accepting of me was by just...helping people.
eventually you may find people that would help you back,and even invite you to a guild or their friendship group. its hard to be patient with autism,both for the person with it and for others without it,but practising patience and compassion can help you make some amazing friends.
of course though,there are people that will try to take advantage of you if you help them. if they then seem to turn or become aggressive or use you as the butt of every joke,its best to avoid them. if people want you to help them then turn on you immediately or some time after helping them,then distance yourself from them. But dont let that dishearten you.
There are many others like you with Autism. And many with Social anxiety who dont talk much to people,waiting for others to talk to them.
if someone asks for help somewhere,and you think your able to help? give it a shot! it can lead to something amazing.
Sorry for the wall of text. But I hope some of the stuff Ive said is helpful in one way or another. Sorry about your guild too.

redspecter23

It would have been better if you could have gotten more information on why you were removed. They just said it's because of how you are, but in what way? How can you work on things and improve if you don't know what you did wrong? Certainly they felt the need to remove you and hopefully it wasn't for just one interaction but instead a pattern over time. In the end, if your personalities don't match up, it's not a guild you should want to be in.

My son has autism and it's entirely possible that I'm undiagnosed myself. It can be extremely difficult to fit in socially, even if a group tries to be understanding. If you're on PC/NA and looking for a small social group to interact with in game or on Discord, let me know.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After some review, we would like to simply remind everyone to keep all posts civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the Community Rules. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

zvavi

I don't understand this thread and the reason for it.

The only valid reason to be kicked from a guild because of interactions is if you were making other members uncomfortable. Which is probably the reason you were removed, and if it is the reason, then it was a fine decision.

Not all guilds are have the same atmosphere, but guilds that promote specific atmosphere to their members have the obligation to keep it. By kicking members that don't fit if needed.

Xuhora

hey there

yesterday i was browsing the guild recruitment of the forums and stumbled upon this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475168/clan-ghilain-lgbtqai-women-disability-safe-space-relaxed-no-pressure-pve-no-voice-chat#latest

i just read it because i was curious what is happening there. Seems like just the thing for you, if you are on PC/EU that is. if not, maybe try your luck in the respective threads down there (perhaps you didnt scroll down far enough to even realize that this recruitment threads exist)

spartaxoxo

Try not to tell disparaging jokes or anything of that sort. Perhaps that's why? Can't really think of any other reason for "how you were" or something. Hmm

Sheezabeast

In all fairness to you, you are assuming your autism is what made them kick you. Normies can act a fool and get kicked for a myriad of reasons as well. You don't have to assume your disorder is to blame right off the block. Is it likely? High probability. But you don't have to automatically go there.

I would examine your personal conduct when it comes to things like how respectful you were in dealing with others, of both genders, and of higher or lower rank in the guild. Think back to if you attended any guild activities and your interactions during those activities. Your chats, both in guild chat, Discord or TeamSpeak, and Whisper. Attitude and sarcasm and lying and nastiness are examples of things that anyone can be guilty of, including people with Autism. Don't assume your autism is the root. I am not implying that you acted in those ways. Those are just examples of things to consider in how you came across to others and may explain it.

InaMoonlight

Know how you feel. Got aspergers too, and have been kicked from more then one social guild, cause I, like someone waiting for a skipping rope to be just right for me to jump in, some times I've definitely held back socially feeling it extremely daunting to try and befriend a pre-existing tightly knit group.

You'll find there's alot of guilds like that, but you will also find that there are tonnes that would love to have you.

Chin up, and back on the horse

AinSoph

JungleHyena wrote: »

"Look all I can say is you were kicked because how you were. I can't say anything to it"

Despite everything else said here, this line is absolute hot garbage for a kick explanation, and assuming this is the GM/Officer who kicked you they should have been truthful and just said the real reason instead of something vague like this unless we're just missing context.

SeaGtGruff

I agree that it might not have been directly related to autism per se.

One thing to be aware of is that guilds typically have many levels of rank, and depending on the permissions of each rank it's possible that several members have permission to kick "offending" members. In that case all it might take to get kicked would be one member who took offense at something you said or did, complained to another nember who has kick privileges, and then "bingo" you're kicked. Other guilds might restrict kick privileges to the GM, or possibly to a trusted few beyond the GM, to prevent "kick happy" members from abusing their privileges.

Then again, whether or not the GM is the only person with kick privileges, some guilds have strict "be nice to each other" rules and a "better safe than sorry" attitude about kicking anyone who starts to "act up." The bad thing about that is, sometimes the person who gets kicked might not be the "real instigator," meaning another member might overreact to some innocent remark or action and start an argument about it, then the person being "wrongfully accused" (at least from their perspective) ends up getting upset, comes back at the accuser with an undeniably rude remark, and ends up being the one to get kicked when (from their perspective) they did nothing wrong and the accuser was the one being nasty. If two members get into a tiff, the one displaying the rudest behavior will likely be the one to get kicked, even if they didn't "start it." So the best thing to do is always respond courteously and respectfully to other members, even if they start getting nasty with you, because responding "in kind" will only make the situation worse and could lead to you being the one kicked rather than the instigator.

Also, telling jokes can be a really bad idea, because you might say something as a joke and someone else might think it's rude or objectionable. Even something as simple as welcoming a new member to a guild can become offensive if you make some light-hearted and "innocent" joke that comes off as being extremely cringe-worthy if not out-and-out distasteful. So it's also best to always avoid jokes and humor as much as possible, since whether something is "funny" or not can be very subjective.

Shardaxx

Autism or not, you just need to find a guild with people who appreciate you. Some guilds can be very uptight about things, and maybe you just didn't fit it there or an officer took exception to you for some reason. Don't worry about it, just find another guild with more like-minded people in it and you'll be fine.

RedMuse

This is why I'm clinging to the two social guilds I have which understands me and how I work and never really talk in the other ones, because I do not want to get kicked over something I don't understand and no one will ever explain to me.

And to everyone who says "this happens to everyone" doesn't understand that while yes it occasionally happens to everyone it happens all the time to autistic people and no one ever explains to us what we did wrong. This isn't about guilds being uptight, it's about NTs not being willing to deal with autistic people, and not communicating with us in a way we understand, but demanding we acquiesce to them and their rules, but won't explain those rules to us. No, we don't automatically understand the rules, that's part of our autism.
Now is this about finding someone who appreciates us. It's about finding people who are willing to communicate and compromise. Which frankly the MMO gaming community sucks at and always have. Which this thread shows because very few people in it actually get the issue at hand or how harmful and hurtful it is to autistic players.

Mythreindeer

So without trying to be disparaging to anyone or whatever issues they may have, this thread is why "Off Topic" subforums exist and why this forum should have one...ZOS

adriant1978

Without knowing more about what kind of guild it was (social, trading, PvE, PvP, RP, etc) and what you're like as a player it's impossible to say who's right and who's wrong here, but I feel for you.

I'm also in my 40s, quiet and pretty unsocial, slow to warm up to strangers, loathe voice comms, and definitely value my alone time. I identify as an introvert but I might well be on the spectrum for all I know, just don't really feel any desire to put another label on myself. My interest in the game also tends to be sporadic which leads me to get tripped up by inactivity policies.

I've yet to find a guild that would work for me and I've more or less made my peace with it, there is still stuff to enjoy in this game as a solo player, but you shouldn't give up if you really feel the need to belong to one. Good luck!

robertthebard

AinSoph wrote: »

JungleHyena wrote: »

"Look all I can say is you were kicked because how you were. I can't say anything to it"

Despite everything else said here, this line is absolute hot garbage for a kick explanation, and assuming this is the GM/Officer who kicked you they should have been truthful and just said the real reason instead of something vague like this unless we're just missing context.

We are missing context. That's the problem with threads like this on forums, we get one side of the story. Do you know what actually transpired that lead to their removal? I don't. I know I've been removed from guilds for that very reason, but I was being a total ass, and knew I was. I have also removed people for being a total ass. I have kicked people out of a guild by kicking their alts, while they're logged in, so that they could watch me do it. If that individual had come to the forum to complain, they would have led with the exact same thing, kicked for how they were in guild, because that's why they were kicked. It wasn't my sole decision, all of the officers agreed that it had to happen, and that's how I chose to do it.

adriant1978

robertthebard wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

JungleHyena wrote: »

"Look all I can say is you were kicked because how you were. I can't say anything to it"

Despite everything else said here, this line is absolute hot garbage for a kick explanation, and assuming this is the GM/Officer who kicked you they should have been truthful and just said the real reason instead of something vague like this unless we're just missing context.

We are missing context. That's the problem with threads like this on forums, we get one side of the story. Do you know what actually transpired that lead to their removal? I don't. I know I've been removed from guilds for that very reason, but I was being a total ass, and knew I was. I have also removed people for being a total ass. I have kicked people out of a guild by kicking their alts, while they're logged in, so that they could watch me do it. If that individual had come to the forum to complain, they would have led with the exact same thing, kicked for how they were in guild, because that's why they were kicked. It wasn't my sole decision, all of the officers agreed that it had to happen, and that's how I chose to do it.

I agree we are missing context, but if he was being an ass then they should have said "you were being an ass". Likewise if he was being sexist, racist, homophobic, telling bad jokes, not participating sufficiently in a social guild, not paying his dues in a trade guild, etc.

"because how you were" is one of those comments that, intentionally or not, can really feed into lowering a person's sense of self worth. Not everybody has to like you and not everybody will but, assuming that was the actual phrasing used, I think it's pretty scummy to exclude someone based on vaguely and insidiously implying there is something wrong with them as a person. Call out bad behavior where you see it but be honest about it.

Rowjoh

I've been kicked from a couple of guilds (who hasn't!) for no apparent reason and I'm not autistic or socially handicapped.

Getting kicked from a guild in a game is absolutely no indication of anything more sinister than being at the whim of a moody muppet.

There are so many important issues in life, especially in these troubled times. This really isn't one of them

FrancisCrawford

RedMuse wrote: »

This is why I'm clinging to the two social guilds I have which understands me and how I work and never really talk in the other ones, because I do not want to get kicked over something I don't understand and no one will ever explain to me.

And to everyone who says "this happens to everyone" doesn't understand that while yes it occasionally happens to everyone it happens all the time to autistic people and no one ever explains to us what we did wrong. This isn't about guilds being uptight, it's about NTs not being willing to deal with autistic people, and not communicating with us in a way we understand, but demanding we acquiesce to them and their rules, but won't explain those rules to us. No, we don't automatically understand the rules, that's part of our autism.
Now is this about finding someone who appreciates us. It's about finding people who are willing to communicate and compromise. Which frankly the MMO gaming community sucks at and always have. Which this thread shows because very few people in it actually get the issue at hand or how harmful and hurtful it is to autistic players.

You highlight the key point.

On a guild application it would be wise to ask for a more careful description of expected behaviors than are already posted by the guild, explaining why.

If somebody rejects you for doing that, it's probably not a guild you should join anyway.

Nestor

I saw one of the most helpful members of a Guild I am in get kicked because someone just did not take something they said the right way. The person was snarky and sarcastic, but had a heart of gold and would give the cuirass of of their characters back to a guildmate who needed it.

I don't think anyone gets kicked from a guild for being Non Social. But, they can get kicked for being Anti Social. Thing is, one may try to be kidding around with someone, or giving them a hard time, but it can easily be misconstrued, especially as we have no body language to form a context with our communication.

So, a good rule of thumb, if you have to say something, be nice. If you can't be nice, don't say anything. If you want or need to be confrontational, leave the chat.

Once someone gets to know you, then you have more freedom of expression. However, then it is the ones who overhear what you are saying or texting that may not understand. So, again, just be nice.

robertthebard

adriant1978 wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

JungleHyena wrote: »

"Look all I can say is you were kicked because how you were. I can't say anything to it"

Despite everything else said here, this line is absolute hot garbage for a kick explanation, and assuming this is the GM/Officer who kicked you they should have been truthful and just said the real reason instead of something vague like this unless we're just missing context.

We are missing context. That's the problem with threads like this on forums, we get one side of the story. Do you know what actually transpired that lead to their removal? I don't. I know I've been removed from guilds for that very reason, but I was being a total ass, and knew I was. I have also removed people for being a total ass. I have kicked people out of a guild by kicking their alts, while they're logged in, so that they could watch me do it. If that individual had come to the forum to complain, they would have led with the exact same thing, kicked for how they were in guild, because that's why they were kicked. It wasn't my sole decision, all of the officers agreed that it had to happen, and that's how I chose to do it.

I agree we are missing context, but if he was being an ass then they should have said "you were being an ass". Likewise if he was being sexist, racist, homophobic, telling bad jokes, not participating sufficiently in a social guild, not paying his dues in a trade guild, etc.

"because how you were" is one of those comments that, intentionally or not, can really feed into lowering a person's sense of self worth. Not everybody has to like you and not everybody will but, assuming that was the actual phrasing used, I think it's pretty scummy to exclude someone based on vaguely and insidiously implying there is something wrong with them as a person. Call out bad behavior where you see it but be honest about it.

Then we get a thread about how they were being confrontational. We already have to go on the assumption that autism is the reason, right? Why? Because that's all the information we're given. Was that really the line used, or was that what we're told to garner some sympathy? Kicking for a disability is low, especially if it's known up front, but expecting someone to lay out all the details for a kick is unreasonable. "Because you don't fit" can be just as harsh as "because of the way you are".

adriant1978

robertthebard wrote: »

expecting someone to lay out all the details for a kick is unreasonable. "Because you don't fit" can be just as harsh as "because of the way you are".

Going to have to agree to disagree here. Of course there's no reason to go into exhaustive detail, it's an MMO guild not an employment tribunal, but I think the decent thing is offer up some concrete reason(s) for excluding someone.

"Because you don't fit" just sounds like a 'polite' way of saying "because we don't like you", and if that's genuinely the reason then hey be up front about it and make it clear that you're the ones with the problem.

Sahidom

My best friend in ESO is autistic. He excels on almost all aspects of the game than myself; he reads patterns faster than me, and more often out doing dedicated veterans in PVP; and has solo veteran trial boss when the party wiped once.

I do encourage you not to let those guilds get under your skin. A hefty portion of players in a guild are self-serving; These are the players that want their "egos" stroked or feel the desired to be more superior or socialable accepted than others. Let me tell you, my best friend has many friends online outside guilds and has his own ignore list from salty players from /tells when he outshines them. You will naturally find a group of people who will enjoy playing with you, so be social and the longer you play with them then the more they'll see your stengths.

SilverBride

JungleHyena wrote: »

Another former member told me:

"Look all I can say is you were kicked because how you were. I can't say anything to it"

Another former member, so they are no longer in the guild either. They probably don't have any inside information on what happened, so just gave you a generic answer.

Have you considered asking the guildmaster directly what happened? Just approach them in a non judgemental way, say you were surprised by what happened, and ask for some clarification. Unless they are a complete jerk they will probably give you the reason.