So why has ZOS ignored how broken PvP WW is?

ZarkingFrued

We all know it. The only players defending it are the ones who are enjoying the leisure of playing a PvP tank with competitive dps. Why have they chosen not to address the obvious issue? It's OK for a build to have competitive dps, and never have to worry about dying? The heal on it literally saves lives in one button press even if you get them low on health. Why give a class everything on one bar?
I think ZOS had no idea what players could actually do with WW, and it's ruined Imperial City, BGs, and even bleeds into open world heavily. I may get attacked for the thread, but I'm gonna at least speak out while I watch PvP become a joke.

Dracane

They overdid it a bit.
Werewolf needs to lose a bit of its passive potency.

Remove the 10% damage mitigation from the white werewolf, add Major Resolve to one of their abilities and tone done their 10k resistence passive by a lot, so they can no longer use mighty chudan and get 10k free resistences on top. I think Major Resolve plus 2,3k resistences free is more than enough. 4k resistences (or 10k with chudan) is just too crazy.

The heal also needs to be reduced a bit obviously.

Syiccal

10 % is basically major protection now at all times!
The side *** they have also absorb alot of thier damage and thus bring thier mitigation up further, and even if you get them low, 1 button and they heal

Ranger209

I would say that the game is so broken on a macro scale that it is impossible to tell how broken any individual thing really is. nothing should be altered until the game is in a working state.

ZarkingFrued

Ranger209 wrote: »

I would say that the game is so broken on a macro scale that it is impossible to tell how broken any individual thing really is. nothing should be altered until the game is in a working state.

Nah. This is blatantly obvious. 3 top tier players couldn't kill a halfway decent ww if they wanted to. And any mediocre player instantly becomes top tier when they run it. These are just facts.

ZarkingFrued

Dracane wrote: »

They overdid it a bit.
Werewolf needs to lose a bit of its passive potency.

Remove the 10% damage mitigation from the white werewolf, add Major Resolve to one of their abilities and tone done their 10k resistence passive by a lot, so they can no longer use mighty chudan and get 10k free resistences on top. I think Major Resolve plus 2,3k resistences free is more than enough. 4k resistences (or 10k with chudan) is just too crazy.

The heal also needs to be reduced a bit obviously.

Health based heals are a problem in general.

Tommy_The_Gun

Proc sets are problem, not WW itself. Proc sets enable too much dmg on a tanky builds - because those sets provide dmg that scales with nothing. You can allocate everything into health & resistances and you will still dish out decent dmg. Nothing wrong with tanky builds that are very hard to kill. But if such builds have decent dmg too... then yeah...

WW is "tanky" by its design. It has passives to compensate a bit for lack of weapon passives and majority of class / guild passives you would have normally, outside of WW, and also very limited toolkit (only WW skills with no ulti, no CC immunity skill, purge etc).

Keep in mind that before Greymoor update WW was kinda useless and pointless (in both PvE & PvP). It was basically an RP meme. All ZOS did with in greymoor is that they added negative effect (criminal act) and one positive effect to WW skills. I do not believe that it was it that made WW strong in PvP. In that update they ales re-balanced proc sets (they simplified proc conditions and removed % proc chance form sets, to lessen server calculations). That alone made proc sets reliable all of the sudden. So even if they reduced dmg of those sets - they are still providing too much vs stat buffing sets.

TLD:
WW is strong in PvP right now, but not because of its passives or skills - it is because just like warden or necro or DK or any tanky class - it synergises well with dmg dealing proc sets that are over performing right now.

Imho all they need to do is to make proc sets to scale with... something. If it deal dmg then it should scale with max offensive stat. If it heals or provide dmg shield, then it should scale with max health.

mikey_reach

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Proc sets are problem, not WW itself. Proc sets enable too much dmg on a tanky builds - because those sets provide dmg that scales with nothing. You can allocate everything into health & resistances and you will still dish out decent dmg. Nothing wrong with tanky builds that are very hard to kill. But if such builds have decent dmg too... then yeah...

WW is "tanky" by its design. It has passives to compensate a bit for lack of weapon passives and majority of class / guild passives you would have normally, outside of WW, and also very limited toolkit (only WW skills with no ulti, no CC immunity skill, purge etc).

Keep in mind that before Greymoor update WW was kinda useless and pointless (in both PvE & PvP). It was basically an RP meme. All ZOS did with in greymoor is that they added negative effect (criminal act) and one positive effect to WW skills. I do not believe that it was it that made WW strong in PvP. In that update they ales re-balanced proc sets (they simplified proc conditions and removed % proc chance form sets, to lessen server calculations). That alone made proc sets reliable all of the sudden. So even if they reduced dmg of those sets - they are still providing too much vs stat buffing sets.

TLD:
WW is strong in PvP right now, but not because of its passives or skills - it is because just like warden or necro or DK or any tanky class - it synergises well with dmg dealing proc sets that are over performing right now.

Imho all they need to do is to make proc sets to scale with... something. If it deal dmg then it should scale with max offensive stat. If it heals or provide dmg shield, then it should scale with max health.

Ww proc or not its still pretty broken, my ww does not use proc sets and it can kill and survive all day long.

Dracane

mikey_reach wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Proc sets are problem, not WW itself. Proc sets enable too much dmg on a tanky builds - because those sets provide dmg that scales with nothing. You can allocate everything into health & resistances and you will still dish out decent dmg. Nothing wrong with tanky builds that are very hard to kill. But if such builds have decent dmg too... then yeah...

WW is "tanky" by its design. It has passives to compensate a bit for lack of weapon passives and majority of class / guild passives you would have normally, outside of WW, and also very limited toolkit (only WW skills with no ulti, no CC immunity skill, purge etc).

Keep in mind that before Greymoor update WW was kinda useless and pointless (in both PvE & PvP). It was basically an RP meme. All ZOS did with in greymoor is that they added negative effect (criminal act) and one positive effect to WW skills. I do not believe that it was it that made WW strong in PvP. In that update they ales re-balanced proc sets (they simplified proc conditions and removed % proc chance form sets, to lessen server calculations). That alone made proc sets reliable all of the sudden. So even if they reduced dmg of those sets - they are still providing too much vs stat buffing sets.

TLD:
WW is strong in PvP right now, but not because of its passives or skills - it is because just like warden or necro or DK or any tanky class - it synergises well with dmg dealing proc sets that are over performing right now.

Imho all they need to do is to make proc sets to scale with... something. If it deal dmg then it should scale with max offensive stat. If it heals or provide dmg shield, then it should scale with max health.

Ww proc or not its still pretty broken, my ww does not use proc sets and it can kill and survive all day long.

Yea, procs are really not what makes Werewolves so good. Most of them do not even use them and Crimson Guard alone does not make you king.

This is clearly about the passive potency they have and how dense their abilities are. In the sense that most of them carry a lot of secondary effects. I am convinced that Werewolf is too strong and easy considering its a 5 skill playstyle.

You do not need to barswap or manage 10 abilities to be successful. You instead have 5 very very strong abilities that are very straightforward and hence, require little to no skill to be very effective with.
And it shows. Werewolf makes bad players formidable, because it's the easiest build in the game and it gains way too much passive potency.

Despite saying that, I am mostly fine with them. They just need their immense survivability adjusted. Constant major protection and 10k resistences is strong. I also think the little wolves should no longer be solid objects that can bodyblock you. I can not kill them, so please make them "transparent" like most pets.

Tommy_The_Gun

Dracane wrote: »

I also think the little wolves should no longer be solid objects that can bodyblock you. I can not kill them, so please make them "transparent" like most pets.

Pack Leader wolf pets are untargetable. I think it is like that since Elsweyr update.

Dracane

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I also think the little wolves should no longer be solid objects that can bodyblock you. I can not kill them, so please make them "transparent" like most pets.

Pack Leader wolf pets are untargetable. I think it is like that since Elsweyr update.

As I said, I can not kill them/not target them, but they act as solid objects in the world that block your path and can get you stuck sometimes. They should be transparent since I can not kill them.

Solariken

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I also think the little wolves should no longer be solid objects that can bodyblock you. I can not kill them, so please make them "transparent" like most pets.

Pack Leader wolf pets are untargetable. I think it is like that since Elsweyr update.

Yeah they are untargetable now, but they constantly snare you with that generic NPC snare. The 10% free mitigation is enough for that morph they should just remove the puppies completely.

Dracane

Solariken wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I also think the little wolves should no longer be solid objects that can bodyblock you. I can not kill them, so please make them "transparent" like most pets.

Pack Leader wolf pets are untargetable. I think it is like that since Elsweyr update.

Yeah they are untargetable now, but they constantly snare you with that generic NPC snare. The 10% free mitigation is enough for that morph they should just remove the puppies completely.

I would argue that the wolves are enough and the 10% mitigation is too much. I mean, it is too much, no matter how you view it.

Weesacs

Vulnerable to poisons and fighters guilds abilities ... however here's 10k resistances to counter your counters 😂

Now if only vampires had 10k resistances to counter increased fire damage (one can only dream) 🤔😂

Qbiken

Weesacs wrote: »

Vulnerable to poisons and fighters guilds abilities ... however here's 10k resistances to counter your counters 😂

Now if only vampires had 10k resistances to counter increased fire damage (one can only dream) 🤔😂

I mean, mistform exists and it's damn good this patch if utilized right


On topic:

Werewolf is defensively overtuned and needs some adjustment in that area. Replacing the 10k resistance with major resolve would just to them a favour since you then don't need to run mighty chudan for that defensive buff (and you can replace it with any other defensive set like malubeth or trollking).

Offensively they're carried by malacath as every other heavy armor users out there.

In my opinion there are currently two issues (or three if you consider malacath ring) that makes werewolf overtuned:

* HP based heal: Rework it to scale of max stamina and weapon damage (should still cost magicka tho). Would solve almost all issues with the current version of werewolf.

* Alessian needs a really hefty nerf: Regardless of what builds use this set it overperforms. My suggestion with Alessian is to make the bonus HP regen this set gives you, not to be affected by HP regen modifiers (such as major fortitude, Heavy armor passives etc).

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I also think the little wolves should no longer be solid objects that can bodyblock you. I can not kill them, so please make them "transparent" like most pets.

Pack Leader wolf pets are untargetable. I think it is like that since Elsweyr update.

While they're not targetable, there is a bug were they have the ability to body block both the ww/allies and enemy players.

ccfeeling

No WW think they are OP here, and they just bragging in youtubes how they 1vx easily.

If some of you still believe the problems come from proc set other than WW itselves, you should try WW a couple days.

Not much skills required, brain dead,focus on your target hp, once it low, fear and burst your howls.

They will be nerfed 1 day, just not yet happen.

I feel really sad those players work hard on their builds but killed by some freaking toxic brain dead WW.

Waffennacht

Theres always something like this; gonna bet ZoS nerfs WW back into oblivion

silver1surfer69

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

We all know it. The only players defending it are the ones who are enjoying the leisure of playing a PvP tank with competitive dps. Why have they chosen not to address the obvious issue? It's OK for a build to have competitive dps, and never have to worry about dying? The heal on it literally saves lives in one button press even if you get them low on health. Why give a class everything on one bar?
I think ZOS had no idea what players could actually do with WW, and it's ruined Imperial City, BGs, and even bleeds into open world heavily. I may get attacked for the thread, but I'm gonna at least speak out while I watch PvP become a joke.

Very well said! Same with mistform now. Its just a joke. Its so unbalanced. Zos really needs something like a quality control before they release stuff. If it stays like that only chance you have is do the same and use this holes in the balance and exploit them. So please prevent this zos. Im sure you do not want this to happen.

Nick9322

WW is so overpowered it’s ridiculous. I’ve done over 100k of damage to a WW in 15 seconds and it’s absorbed by a couple howls followed by a pounce. WWs combined with health prof sets are a nightmare in Imperial City and impossible for a fair fight. A developer needs to spend an hour in IC and they’ll see how crazy it is. We need significant nerfs or significant damage buffs.

buzzclops

Eso is not a high pop top tier pvp game. The developers have to make brain dead gameplay viable and op to keep some casuals and new players playing. It will most likely never change sadly. But to stay on topic yeah ww is absurdly op it is the biggest carry ive seen since i started playing during morrowind.

Goregrinder

"We all.." Weird, I don't recall you asking me?

Pauwer

Oof, i have a ww too but i don't play it, 'cause it's so silly. I took all skills points of the skill tree and just play plain stam sorc.