first game after two weeks and we continue with same problem, wrath of elements

ivramirez

wrath of elements x3 in a same fight, 15k damage only from a single proc

how long until proc sets and proc damage is fix?

erio

All im going to say is I would be wary of the kill feed. Its usually off, and doesnt show what actually got you.

ivramirez

erio wrote: »

All im going to say is I would be wary of the kill feed. Its usually off, and doesnt show what actually got you.

you have a valid point, regardless 10 cycles of wraths of elements is just too much, 3 + 3 + 4 .

erio

ivramirez wrote: »

erio wrote: »

All im going to say is I would be wary of the kill feed. Its usually off, and doesnt show what actually got you.

you have a valid point, regardless 10 cycles of wraths of elements is just too much, 3 + 3 + 4 .

Since its showing 2 procs by the same guy i would assume that this took place over a 20 second period since the proc has a 10 second cd. Seems fine imo

wheem_ESO

erio wrote: »

ivramirez wrote: »

erio wrote: »

All im going to say is I would be wary of the kill feed. Its usually off, and doesnt show what actually got you.

you have a valid point, regardless 10 cycles of wraths of elements is just too much, 3 + 3 + 4 .

Since its showing 2 procs by the same guy i would assume that this took place over a 20 second period since the proc has a 10 second cd. Seems fine imo

Nah, I've seen it split up the Vateshran Destruction Staff like this before, even when I didn't manage to LOS or out-range it before dying. Not sure exactly why it happens, but I don't think I've ever seen it count higher than x4 on a single line before.

While the Vateshran Destruction Staff is strong, I think that ultimately the 2h is hands down superior. Many highly mobile opponents and/or Nightblades will nullify the destruction staff pretty easily, while the 2h triggering on a split-second medium attack is really powerful burst. Especially when it pairs so easily with Dizzying Swing's off-GCD stun being triggered on-demand from the exact same medium attack.

Stahlor

You took the full proc for 10 seconds (~1500 dps) and now you*re complaining, that it's overpowered?

relentless_turnip

I see no reason to defend this set other than those currently being carried by it. It's range is absurd, it can't be purged and breaking the beam is rng half the time. Using it in its current state is borderline exploitive imo.

Its adjustment imo should be the same as all other proc sets. It should scale with your offensive stats. It would be far less annoying if the person who is applying this free skill didn't have 40k health. Most people couple this with zaan and mist form. Mist form should cancel all beams too.

Ocelot9x

I was trying magcro with all different builds, skill setup etc on pts with a friend of mine who plays pc and since I'm a console player using mouse and keyboard i was feeling like a 10 cp again.
Then I slammed 5 pc pariah, full recovery glyphs, 40k health, vateshran main, blackrose backbar, zaan and malacath and i just could lose, even tho he's like 50x time better than me on pc. This s*** is disgusting, I can't understand who defends procs

Grimlok_S

I wouldn't be as butthurt about the damage if you could purge it like Zaan. Kinda peeved that Zaan doesn't break on a good number of BG LOS/Terrain, but what can you do.

The second I see it turn up outnumbered I pretty much instant 180, RAT, sprint out of the fight, waddle back in after it breaks. Annoying, but easy enough to deal with that way. And you know the guy running it is just going to camp Mist form until the procs reset lol.

Xeniph

The issue most folks are having with this set and practically all proc sets can be explained by mostly one thing.

People expect them to perform in a no-CP environment similarly to a CP one, where they are actually balanced for.


The game is built and balanced around CP these days. To include skills and all procs, so of coarse thing over perform in a setting lower than what they are balanced for.

The real problem here is the option to even play the game in a no-cp environment. No-CP is only available in limited pvp mode, the rest of the game is CP and we all know they have their hands full balancing the game in general, we can't expect them to balance an outdated system that serves no purpose, imo.

However, I can see the frustration for the no-cp folks. I just don't have issues with procs/sets in CP, at all.

Just my opinion of coarse.

*Oh, I also don't use procs on most of my toons- Just to head off the "He's defending them cause he uses them" statement.

Jierdanit

Xeniph wrote: »

The issue most folks are having with this set and practically all proc sets can be explained by mostly one thing.

People expect them to perform in a no-CP environment similarly to a CP one, where they are actually balanced for.


The game is built and balanced around CP these days. To include skills and all procs, so of coarse thing over perform in a setting lower than what they are balanced for.

The real problem here is the option to even play the game in a no-cp environment. No-CP is only available in limited pvp mode, the rest of the game is CP and we all know they have their hands full balancing the game in general, we can't expect them to balance an outdated system that serves no purpose, imo.

However, I can see the frustration for the no-cp folks. I just don't have issues with procs/sets in CP, at all.

Just my opinion of coarse.

*Oh, I also don't use procs on most of my toons- Just to head off the "He's defending them cause he uses them" statement.

If proc sets would scale with offensive stats, like quite some people have already suggested, it could be made so that the impact procs have on noCP / CP would be similar, since because your offensive stats would increase with cp so would the damage of your procs.

Also youre quite lucky not to have any issues with procs in CP, since from what i have seen they are also definitely the go to for meta builds in CP PvP and still outperform stat builds by quite a bit (even though obviously not by as much as in noncp).

Waffennacht

I like how OP is being focused by 3 players

Theignson

These death recaps are inaccurate and don't give good information. Post some Combat Metrics recaps.

Xeniph

Jierdanit wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

The issue most folks are having with this set and practically all proc sets can be explained by mostly one thing.

People expect them to perform in a no-CP environment similarly to a CP one, where they are actually balanced for.


The game is built and balanced around CP these days. To include skills and all procs, so of coarse thing over perform in a setting lower than what they are balanced for.

The real problem here is the option to even play the game in a no-cp environment. No-CP is only available in limited pvp mode, the rest of the game is CP and we all know they have their hands full balancing the game in general, we can't expect them to balance an outdated system that serves no purpose, imo.

However, I can see the frustration for the no-cp folks. I just don't have issues with procs/sets in CP, at all.

Just my opinion of coarse.

*Oh, I also don't use procs on most of my toons- Just to head off the "He's defending them cause he uses them" statement.

If proc sets would scale with offensive stats, like quite some people have already suggested, it could be made so that the impact procs have on noCP / CP would be similar, since because your offensive stats would increase with cp so would the damage of your procs.

Also youre quite lucky not to have any issues with procs in CP, since from what i have seen they are also definitely the go to for meta builds in CP PvP and still outperform stat builds by quite a bit (even though obviously not by as much as in noncp).

They just don't do much damage to me. For example, Vate destro ticks for 500 on my light armor ganker in CP for heavens sake. That's by no means OP, it's more of a joke really.

I agree they could do quite a bit of things to tweak them, I just don't want then to work on ANYTHING but performance until that's fixed. However I doubt that will every be truely "fixed"

Now supposedly there is a CP rework this quarter? Guess we will see what happens then.

Weesacs

I just want a counter to it.

- Purge doesnt work on it
- LoS doesnt break it
- If you havent great mobility you cant break it

It needs a valid counter

Jierdanit

Xeniph wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

The issue most folks are having with this set and practically all proc sets can be explained by mostly one thing.

People expect them to perform in a no-CP environment similarly to a CP one, where they are actually balanced for.


The game is built and balanced around CP these days. To include skills and all procs, so of coarse thing over perform in a setting lower than what they are balanced for.

The real problem here is the option to even play the game in a no-cp environment. No-CP is only available in limited pvp mode, the rest of the game is CP and we all know they have their hands full balancing the game in general, we can't expect them to balance an outdated system that serves no purpose, imo.

However, I can see the frustration for the no-cp folks. I just don't have issues with procs/sets in CP, at all.

Just my opinion of coarse.

*Oh, I also don't use procs on most of my toons- Just to head off the "He's defending them cause he uses them" statement.

If proc sets would scale with offensive stats, like quite some people have already suggested, it could be made so that the impact procs have on noCP / CP would be similar, since because your offensive stats would increase with cp so would the damage of your procs.

Also youre quite lucky not to have any issues with procs in CP, since from what i have seen they are also definitely the go to for meta builds in CP PvP and still outperform stat builds by quite a bit (even though obviously not by as much as in noncp).

They just don't do much damage to me. For example, Vate destro ticks for 500 on my light armor ganker in CP for heavens sake. That's by no means OP, it's more of a joke really.

I agree they could do quite a bit of things to tweak them, I just don't want then to work on ANYTHING but performance until that's fixed. However I doubt that will every be truely "fixed"

Now supposedly there is a CP rework this quarter? Guess we will see what happens then.

Well on a ganker that is quite different since cloak is pretty much the only thing that reliably breaks Vate destro.

Even though 500 ticks seem really low, especcially for a light armor ganker.
On me it usually ticks from 700 - 1k on builds that should have considerably more resists than a ganker.

Xeniph

Weesacs wrote: »

I just want a counter to it.

- Purge doesnt work on it
- LoS doesnt break it
- If you havent great mobility you cant break it

It needs a valid counter

LOS does indeed break it. I regularly kite 15+ people around LOS and it breaks every time, you just need to give it a second. As a side note, the damage tics stop before the animation drops.

Jierdanit wrote: »

[

Well on a ganker that is quite different since cloak is pretty much the only thing that reliably breaks Vate destro.

Even though 500 ticks seem really low, especcially for a light armor ganker.
On me it usually ticks from 700 - 1k on builds that should have considerably more resists than a ganker.

You are right on the cloak breaking it thing. And yes I have my CP adjusted for the playstyle, it' works pretty well.

However even on my non-cloakers, I either ignore it and outheal (one small hot outperforms it) or I just LOS it. Now if I get 2 or more folks using it on me with no LOS available, that I can feel.

My original point still stands though. Sets, all sets, are balanced with pve CP in mind. I highly doubt they give more than a passing thought about their effect in pvp, let alone in no-cp. Folks that want to pvp in a better balanced pvp envrionment should go to the CP camps.

Now I get the various reasons why folks play/like non-cp, however they should also be made aware that while they can play like that, it is basically playing on a harder difficulty, balance wise.

TheAlphaRaider

erio wrote: »

ivramirez wrote: »

erio wrote: »

All im going to say is I would be wary of the kill feed. Its usually off, and doesnt show what actually got you.

you have a valid point, regardless 10 cycles of wraths of elements is just too much, 3 + 3 + 4 .

Since its showing 2 procs by the same guy i would assume that this took place over a 20 second period since the proc has a 10 second cd. Seems fine imo

absolutely not, a free skill attached to a proc has no place in this game. the proc cant be countered either. You can't stun your way out of it. When every stam toon is running back bar destro just to get free resistance drop and damage proc... That item is not good for the game. Its an example of how ZoS throws OP stuff in to get people to buy DLC. Then we have to complain because it is ruining the game. Crimson with brp and vateshrans and mala on a templar. just stand there in your little bubble and never die and press 2 skills.

TheAlphaRaider

Xeniph wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

I just want a counter to it.

- Purge doesnt work on it
- LoS doesnt break it
- If you havent great mobility you cant break it

It needs a valid counter

LOS does indeed break it. I regularly kite 15+ people around LOS and it breaks every time, you just need to give it a second. As a side note, the damage tics stop before the animation drops.

Jierdanit wrote: »

[

Well on a ganker that is quite different since cloak is pretty much the only thing that reliably breaks Vate destro.

Even though 500 ticks seem really low, especcially for a light armor ganker.
On me it usually ticks from 700 - 1k on builds that should have considerably more resists than a ganker.

You are right on the cloak breaking it thing. And yes I have my CP adjusted for the playstyle, it' works pretty well.

However even on my non-cloakers, I either ignore it and outheal (one small hot outperforms it) or I just LOS it. Now if I get 2 or more folks using it on me with no LOS available, that I can feel.

My original point still stands though. Sets, all sets, are balanced with pve CP in mind. I highly doubt they give more than a passing thought about their effect in pvp, let alone in no-cp. Folks that want to pvp in a better balanced pvp envrionment should go to the CP camps.

Now I get the various reasons why folks play/like non-cp, however they should also be made aware that while they can play like that, it is basically playing on a harder difficulty, balance wise.

i agree not a viable counter. cloak is *** half the time anyways.

Goregrinder

Waffennacht wrote: »

I like how OP is being focused by 3 players

He put himself in a position to be focused by 3 players, and got punished for it. it seems to me that PVP was working as intended there. He died and is complaining that a proc killed him, when in reality what really killed him was his own decision making skills.

People forget that your build, procs or not, is only part of the equation to success in PVP. You still need good situational awareness, game sense (anticipating what your opponents will probably do), map knowledge (knowing where you can LOS, etc), reactionary and mechanical abilities (how fast or well you can react and manually click buttons to maneuver or aim your crosshair), and you still need good decision making skills (Should I fight these 3 players running proc sets, solo, with no stam to dodge roll?).

People love to put the blame on everything else other than the man in the mirror.

Vetixio

Its ridiculous that it can't be purged pretty much most of the other stupid proc sets can, so you have move out of its range which is like 28m and this beam goes through walls and objects. It needs to be purgeable seeing as it comes from an ability that is free and this proc can have 100% uptime doing 5-10k damage and reducing your armor GG ZOS.

wheem_ESO

Vetixio wrote: »

Its ridiculous that it can't be purged pretty much most of the other stupid proc sets can, so you have move out of its range which is like 28m and this beam goes through walls and objects. It needs to be purgeable seeing as it comes from an ability that is free and this proc can have 100% uptime doing 5-10k damage and reducing your armor GG ZOS.

The beam's range is 15m, and it does break on LOS. It's also effectively single target (as the "AOE" of the beam is pretty narrow and not something that can be reliably used for multi-target damage), and has a cooldown attached. Accidentally hitting Engine Guardian, Blastbones, etc...is certainly a drawback.

It's always odd to me that people pitch a huge fit over the Vateshran Destruction Staff, while totally ignoring the BRP counterpart. Except in the case of being used as a back bar weapon for Stamina builds, the BRP Destruction Staff is nearly always superior. While the BRP DOT is indeed cleansable, it also:

• Is legitimately AOE/multi-target, and not subject to being "wasted" on pets that get in the way.
• Cannot be removed by cloak, LOS, or range > 15m.
• Can be applied to targets that are actually out of your LOS, as long as you can see ground that's close enough to them.
• Breaks stealth on each and every tick of the DOT (once every 2 seconds), as well as the initial AOE direct damage. I assume that this is a bug, but it has been this way for quite a while now.

The single target damage on the two staves is extremely similar, with BRP's DOT doing roughly double the per-tick damage of Vateshran's while ticking half as often. But on anything more than a single target, or even a single target situation against someone who is either really mobile or has a lot of available LOS, the BRP staff will provide better damage. Elemental Ring also has the ability to be used as a bit of an undodgeable execute, and even if it's not particularly great, it's still better than what many of us have access to otherwise (which is...absolutely nothing).

Elo106

I think its over performing as well but this is a bad example... you face tanked 2 beams for the entire duration while being hit by a 3rd player as well. If thats not time to line of sight I dont know what is.

The same would happen if you had 2 people apply master dual wield dot and you dont cleanse or line of sight to heal.

Josira

okokok I normally would of been the one to brush aside the staff complaints. but after becoming a part of some 1vx'ers super ebic montage,I have to say its getting kinda rediculous. killed a bunch of us alone,line of sighting,as is my usual defence to beam attacks,did nothing. couldnt heal through,was just insane pressure. it was just "here is your death licence sir. die" and there was no counterplay,no "I could of done this better" just die. but thats what the entirety of the game has become since greymore. I remember when I could kill people with glass cannon builds,speccing entirely into damaging,and it would work. that having procs was at the sacrifice of your max stats to add just a bit more burst in classes that needed it. that procs alone wouldnt do the job,but procs+ speccing into damage was good enough,but you sacrificed tankiness and sustain for it.
....that and that you could simply walk away from a 1vx's ultra mega ebic tree,rock and wall adventure,without them being able to focus you down with 1-2 button presses, within 2 seconds flat of noticing you buggering off.
I also remember the times when a well placed fossilize would ruin the day of many of said people.
Oh how they massacred all of my builds in greymore. a feat they havent been able to do in so so many patches.
They massacared my builds like they massacred playable vampire skills.
infact by introducing the current meta,they killed build diversity in pvp.

Vetixio

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Its ridiculous that it can't be purged pretty much most of the other stupid proc sets can, so you have move out of its range which is like 28m and this beam goes through walls and objects. It needs to be purgeable seeing as it comes from an ability that is free and this proc can have 100% uptime doing 5-10k damage and reducing your armor GG ZOS.

The beam's range is 15m, and it does break on LOS. It's also effectively single target (as the "AOE" of the beam is pretty narrow and not something that can be reliably used for multi-target damage), and has a cooldown attached. Accidentally hitting Engine Guardian, Blastbones, etc...is certainly a drawback.

It's always odd to me that people pitch a huge fit over the Vateshran Destruction Staff, while totally ignoring the BRP counterpart. Except in the case of being used as a back bar weapon for Stamina builds, the BRP Destruction Staff is nearly always superior. While the BRP DOT is indeed cleansable, it also:

• Is legitimately AOE/multi-target, and not subject to being "wasted" on pets that get in the way.
• Cannot be removed by cloak, LOS, or range > 15m.
• Can be applied to targets that are actually out of your LOS, as long as you can see ground that's close enough to them.
• Breaks stealth on each and every tick of the DOT (once every 2 seconds), as well as the initial AOE direct damage. I assume that this is a bug, but it has been this way for quite a while now.

The single target damage on the two staves is extremely similar, with BRP's DOT doing roughly double the per-tick damage of Vateshran's while ticking half as often. But on anything more than a single target, or even a single target situation against someone who is either really mobile or has a lot of available LOS, the BRP staff will provide better damage. Elemental Ring also has the ability to be used as a bit of an undodgeable execute, and even if it's not particularly great, it's still better than what many of us have access to otherwise (which is...absolutely nothing).

I agree with a lot you post on here and I do get what you're saying, I wasn't sure on the range cause I don't use it personally. But yes it is a shame that this is all magicka has atm to try and compete with the crazy stam meta The staff by itself isn't that much pressure it is just when people stack it with other procs there are 2 certain AD players that are doing this on PC NA and it is very cheesy and unfun to play against.

orwangatang

los l2p

L_Nici

Vate doesn't get LoSed, I had many instances where I clearly have broken the Line of Sight and that Beam still hit and dealt damage, even through Keep walls, and Gates. This Set doesn't give a *** about distance even if I streak out of it twice with Stamsorc I can assure you I am still hit and if I am across the whole map. The LoS thing should work in theory but like Zaan most of the time it doesn't because of positioning desynch between server and client.
Its ridicoulus, overtuned, free damage for no effort whatsoever and if even Stamina classes go out of their way to use Vate staffs, its a clear indicator that this set needs adjustment ASAP.

katorga

L_Nici wrote: »

The LoS thing should work in theory but like Zaan most of the time it doesn't because of positioning desynch between server and client.

There is a difference between Wrath of Elements being OP in and of itself (which it may be), and it being OP because the servers don't work and it is able to exploit that fact and turn it in your favor. The health/proc meta build is perfect for exploiting current server performance.

HiImRex

I break vat ele LOS all the time on my stam sorc, and my vat ele gets broken all the time when I use it on my magplar.

I literally have clips of me breaking the beam behind a 2 inch thick lightpole, and clips of enemies breaking it because they jumped over a 2 foot high ledge.

ALso low key you're being farmed by vat maul way harder then vat ele.