Eternal vigor + Major and Minor regen buffs - no thumbs required

Fawn4287

This combination has just brought the game in to the least skillful meta in years, stamblades and stamsorcs with 30- 35k health, 18k mag pools and 1200+ mag recovery have just ripped all then fun out of PvP. Throw in some tripots and how can you ever hope to kill anyone? Even once the werewolf and health based heal cheese builds are nerfed these builds will still be incredibly problematic. Cloak spamming on stamblades (the biggest crutch since launch) is at an all time high and no real drawback for the improper and over use of it alongside shade, stamsorcs streak multiple times like a magsorc, stamdens and stamdks spamming mag cost heals like their magica counterparts.I understand and love that this has brought many magica builds and playstyles back to a formidable level but these sets are just absurd on a stam build, which for years and years have always been meta. Eternal vigor I feel should be a light armour set and the regen buffs should be reverted, its just made broad majority of builds have to put little to no thought in to regen and allows disgusting max health pools which have taken the fast paced burst set up gameplay into immovable object vs unstoppable force scenarios.

Jierdanit

The biggest problem with PvP right now are Procsets and you say:

This combination has just brought the game in to the least skillful meta in years

(regarding Eternal Vigor)??

I mean i do not disagree that Eternal Vigor offers too much for a single set, but its just by far not the worst offender this patch.

relentless_turnip

Yes eternal vigor is the problem with this patch 😂

Proc sets are the worst thing right now. They enable the player to have crazy health pools with their unconditional and totally uninvested damage.

Eternal vigor gives a lot, but doesn't allow you to have it all like proc sets do. It will save you having to invest much in recovery and to extent healing, but it won't kill for you or allow you to build so tanky with such a high health pool that your health scaled heal over performs.

Besides if you are running any of the 4 mythic jewelry you are forced to run heavy, which doesn't synergise very well nightblade as you example suggested. Snow treaders are another contender.

I haven't been killed by anyone this patch and thought "curse you eternal vigor!!!". I am too preoccupied by the arctic blasts and proc sets dominating my death recap😂

Dorkener

OK so now we've seen all of these complants over the course of this patch:
- damage is absurd, slap on 3 dmg proccs and you do unhealable damage, TTK too low yadda yadda
- "tank meta", 35k+ HP folks tanking 15 ppl while still having dmg to burst etc.
- speed stacking, i-frame abusing (BoL, cloak, dodge) hit and run builds stacking damage and bursting in 1 go, but you can't hit them back because they're not where your screen says they are
- now "no thumb regen" is too strong...

Seems like either build variety is at an all time high, or some cheese is just cheesier than others in certain situations

P.S. Completely agree that duelling a well built stamblade in CP is futile. It's no wonder most openworld streams feature stam NBs.

erio

Dorkener wrote: »

OK so now we've seen all of these complants over the course of this patch:
- damage is absurd, slap on 3 dmg proccs and you do unhealable damage, TTK too low yadda yadda
- "tank meta", 35k+ HP folks tanking 15 ppl while still having dmg to burst etc.
- speed stacking, i-frame abusing (BoL, cloak, dodge) hit and run builds stacking damage and bursting in 1 go, but you can't hit them back because they're not where your screen says they are
- now "no thumb regen" is too strong...

Seems like either build variety is at an all time high, or some cheese is just cheesier than others in certain situations

P.S. Completely agree that duelling a well built stamblade in CP is futile. It's no wonder most openworld streams feature stam NBs.

Implying people actually stream eso pvp anymore

caperb

There is a much better set than eternal vigor for trollblades and stamsorcs, it is a light armour set and if I'm not mistaken is in the game since one tamriel.

And if you die to a stamblade with 30k health who is actively using shade a lot, then you chased for too long. Usually they got low damage and look for people that get themself confused while looking for them.

Jierdanit

.

JobooAGS

Jierdanit wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

There is a much better set than eternal vigor for trollblades and stamsorcs, it is a light armour set and if I'm not mistaken is in the game since one tamriel.

And if you die to a stamblade with 30k health who is actively using shade a lot, then you chased for too long. Usually they got low damage and look for people that get themself confused while looking for them.

Eternal Vigor is a heavy armor set and it exists since Greymoor.

please just take the 3 seconds to actually look it up instead of spreading misinformation.

Read his comment again

Jierdanit

JobooAGS wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

There is a much better set than eternal vigor for trollblades and stamsorcs, it is a light armour set and if I'm not mistaken is in the game since one tamriel.

And if you die to a stamblade with 30k health who is actively using shade a lot, then you chased for too long. Usually they got low damage and look for people that get themself confused while looking for them.

Eternal Vigor is a heavy armor set and it exists since Greymoor.

please just take the 3 seconds to actually look it up instead of spreading misinformation.

Read his comment again

Understand what you mean xD

Could tbh be meant either way, but i think i might have just read it wrong.

JobooAGS

Jierdanit wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

There is a much better set than eternal vigor for trollblades and stamsorcs, it is a light armour set and if I'm not mistaken is in the game since one tamriel.

And if you die to a stamblade with 30k health who is actively using shade a lot, then you chased for too long. Usually they got low damage and look for people that get themself confused while looking for them.

Eternal Vigor is a heavy armor set and it exists since Greymoor.

please just take the 3 seconds to actually look it up instead of spreading misinformation.

Read his comment again

Understand what you mean xD

Could tbh be meant either way, but i think i might have just read it wrong.

He is saying that the set that there is set that is supposedly better than EV. That set is a light armor set that was around since 1T.

The question is what set?

Jierdanit

JobooAGS wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

There is a much better set than eternal vigor for trollblades and stamsorcs, it is a light armour set and if I'm not mistaken is in the game since one tamriel.

And if you die to a stamblade with 30k health who is actively using shade a lot, then you chased for too long. Usually they got low damage and look for people that get themself confused while looking for them.

Eternal Vigor is a heavy armor set and it exists since Greymoor.

please just take the 3 seconds to actually look it up instead of spreading misinformation.

Read his comment again

Understand what you mean xD

Could tbh be meant either way, but i think i might have just read it wrong.

He is saying that the set that there is set that is supposedly better than EV. That set is a light armor set that was around since 1T.

The question is what set?

Yea i got that now as well ^^

dcmgti

I feel like Eternal Vigor is far from a "broken" set. It is only a sustain set, offers no damage, no proc, drops in heavy. Since when is it wrong to run a sustain set?

UppGRAYxDD

But I’m all thumbs

Stridig

erio wrote: »

Dorkener wrote: »

OK so now we've seen all of these complants over the course of this patch:
- damage is absurd, slap on 3 dmg proccs and you do unhealable damage, TTK too low yadda yadda
- "tank meta", 35k+ HP folks tanking 15 ppl while still having dmg to burst etc.
- speed stacking, i-frame abusing (BoL, cloak, dodge) hit and run builds stacking damage and bursting in 1 go, but you can't hit them back because they're not where your screen says they are
- now "no thumb regen" is too strong...

Seems like either build variety is at an all time high, or some cheese is just cheesier than others in certain situations

P.S. Completely agree that duelling a well built stamblade in CP is futile. It's no wonder most openworld streams feature stam NBs.

Implying people actually stream eso pvp anymore

My " recommended channels" on twitch (which is 5 or 6) shows 154 ESO stream viewers and 41.8k RUST stream viewers.

FirmamentOfStars

Wow a set provides some good amount of regen and now it has led to the worst part of this meta? How?

First of stat: Meta is wearing proc sets like vate destro and vate 2h, syvarra, crimson, unleashed terror, msa 2h, unfathomable darkness in some cases. One of the few outliers is alessian order, which gained lots of interest to counter the proc set meta.

Secondly: going back to stat builds would improve the meta by a lot. That could be done by neerfing malacaths ring, nerfing proc sets or making stat sets stronger to the level of EV.

Third point: eternal vigor (EV) was used in greymoor often, but people dropped it in most cases already for the procs. Currently build meta is either one 5 piece set front, one 5 piece set back, monster set, mala and maybe some trainee; 5 crimson on body plus arena weapon procs front and backbar with a monsterset and mala; or using alessian with arena procs and monsterset plus endurance.

The least skillfull about the current meta is, that half your damage and healing currently is provided by proc sets or that pressing the left mouse button down with tape or weight deals incredible damage.

If the current meta of proc sets and health based heals and crimson heals ever will be resolved, the alessian health regen build probs will disappear too and we would go back to stat builds. At this point maybe we should compare stat sets to each other again and maybe bring sets up to EV level.

montiferus

Eternal Vigor is certainly a very strong set but it has nothing do with why this game is a total mess right now.

FirmamentOfStars

I would be so glad if everyone would be using eternal vigor in the current patch, it at least would require people to play their class instead of letting the proc sets play for them. ^^

dcmgti

SavageChain wrote: »

Wow a set provides some good amount of regen and now it has led to the worst part of this meta? How?

First of stat: Meta is wearing proc sets like vate destro and vate 2h, syvarra, crimson, unleashed terror, msa 2h, unfathomable darkness in some cases. One of the few outliers is alessian order, which gained lots of interest to counter the proc set meta.

Secondly: going back to stat builds would improve the meta by a lot. That could be done by neerfing malacaths ring, nerfing proc sets or making stat sets stronger to the level of EV.

Third point: eternal vigor (EV) was used in greymoor often, but people dropped it in most cases already for the procs. Currently build meta is either one 5 piece set front, one 5 piece set back, monster set, mala and maybe some trainee; 5 crimson on body plus arena weapon procs front and backbar with a monsterset and mala; or using alessian with arena procs and monsterset plus endurance.

The least skillfull about the current meta is, that half your damage and healing currently is provided by proc sets or that pressing the left mouse button down with tape or weight deals incredible damage.

If the current meta of proc sets and health based heals and crimson heals ever will be resolved, the alessian health regen build probs will disappear too and we would go back to stat builds. At this point maybe we should compare stat sets to each other again and maybe bring sets up to EV level.

I dont have a problem with Malacath itself. You give up crit to deal more straight damage. Should it have another downside like not allowing crit healing or taking more crit damage? That's up for debate. Proc sets, arena weapons should definitely not scale with Malacath though.

Yes Alessian is getting popular and for good reason as you said. I run it currently and with the amount of damage in the game right now its really helped my survivability. But I've definitely noticed I've lost damage running it.

Eternal Vigor is the least of problems in pvp I agree.

The bad part is when ZOS "adjusts" items in the near future, sets like EV and Alessian will probably get nerfed into Oblivion. Same with mist form. Procs scaling with Malacath will probably remain the way they are.

I do wish they would bring Amber Plasm up to EV level as far as sustain numbers(the 5pc bonus). I really like that better on mag builds.

Fawn4287

Jierdanit wrote: »

The biggest problem with PvP right now are Procsets and you say:

This combination has just brought the game in to the least skillful meta in years

(regarding Eternal Vigor)??

I mean i do not disagree that Eternal Vigor offers too much for a single set, but its just by far not the worst offender this patch.

Proc raw damage sets or that aren’t monster sets shouldn’t exist imo anyway, however I see it that theres no point complaining about the over performance of proc sets or cloak since the developers obviously see these as a core component of PvP at this stage.

BaiterOfZergs

JobooAGS wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

There is a much better set than eternal vigor for trollblades and stamsorcs, it is a light armour set and if I'm not mistaken is in the game since one tamriel.

And if you die to a stamblade with 30k health who is actively using shade a lot, then you chased for too long. Usually they got low damage and look for people that get themself confused while looking for them.

Eternal Vigor is a heavy armor set and it exists since Greymoor.

please just take the 3 seconds to actually look it up instead of spreading misinformation.

Read his comment again

Understand what you mean xD

Could tbh be meant either way, but i think i might have just read it wrong.

He is saying that the set that there is set that is supposedly better than EV. That set is a light armor set that was around since 1T.

The question is what set?

Probably talking about a certain set that gives back magic. Or Amber but I can’t remember what update that was.

katorga

Who needs regen with all the proc damage available?

mikey_reach

Eternal vigor really isnt an issue at all it really doesnt make anyone better i can achieve everything EV offers without having to waste 5 slots. That set is for people that cant achieve what it offers without it.

Qbiken

Imagine thinking Eternal Vigor isn´t one of the most overtuned sets in the game in terms of stat density. If anything the set should lose it´s 5 piece HP bonus and have the HP recovery lowered quite a bit.

Dracane

You will not find many supporters to have a set nerfed, unless this set grants damage. This is all people care about.
If the set only gives you near infinite sustain and even survivability, it's approved.

Jsmalls

I keep saying it and I will keep standing by it. The problem is high health pools.

Unless it's a Xv1 scenario, there is a cap to how much damage can be dealt in a combat turn. If the opponents health is higher than your max damage, then it creates a scenario where the opponent has to make several mistakes and disregard healing (healing is and will always be OP in this game which is fine, you have to be able to recover from damage) in order for a death to occur. That's not skillful. Its not fun.

Cap PvP to a 25k~ health pool. Let players use active defenses to survive (dodge roll, block, damage shield, healing, CCing).

Call it hardcore PvP.

I'm not saying this will fix everything, but it would be a lot more fun. And you can have all the regen in the world, doesn't help if you didn't use it correctly. And you can proc all you want but you can't invest in health so they'll lose their luster, mine as well invest appropriately and use actual skills.

Ganking might become a serious problem, but gankers are always squishy so stay on your toes and you'll kill em.

This is how it was 5+ years ago. Players didn't stack 30k+ health, they had thumbs or died and learned from it.

On a side note I was PvPing last night and there was a Zerg of werewolves. A Zerg. Like 25+. All 35k+ health. They steamrolled. Talk about cancer.

At this point I hope they turn werewolves into a chihuahua. Make it unplayable. Cuz that was broken.

katorga

Jsmalls wrote: »

I keep saying it and I will keep standing by it. The problem is high health pools.

Unless it's a Xv1 scenario, there is a cap to how much damage can be dealt in a combat turn. If the opponents health is higher than your max damage, then it creates a scenario where the opponent has to make several mistakes and disregard healing (healing is and will always be OP in this game which is fine, you have to be able to recover from damage) in order for a death to occur. That's not skillful. Its not fun.

Cap PvP to a 25k~ health pool. Let players use active defenses to survive (dodge roll, block, damage shield, healing, CCing).

Call it hardcore PvP.

I'm not saying this will fix everything, but it would be a lot more fun. And you can have all the regen in the world, doesn't help if you didn't use it correctly. And you can proc all you want but you can't invest in health so they'll lose their luster, mine as well invest appropriately and use actual skills.

Ganking might become a serious problem, but gankers are always squishy so stay on your toes and you'll kill em.

This is how it was 5+ years ago. Players didn't stack 30k+ health, they had thumbs or died and learned from it.

On a side note I was PvPing last night and there was a Zerg of werewolves. A Zerg. Like 25+. All 35k+ health. They steamrolled. Talk about cancer.

At this point I hope they turn werewolves into a chihuahua. Make it unplayable. Cuz that was broken.

Here is the thing, player skill, active defenses, active abilities, all that, is moot if performance remains where it is. High health proc builds are direct counters to poor server performance.

But, high health is easy to tackle...step one, remove the 5K health you get in pvp. If that is not enough, use battle spirit to apply a % health debuff. Of course that will create imbalances all of its own. For example, if health is arbitrarily nerfed 50%, a fixed damage proc set just became 100% more powerful and so on. So then they adjust battlespirit to reduce damage to be in line with the new health levels, and you are right back where you started.

Dracane

Jsmalls wrote: »

I keep saying it and I will keep standing by it. The problem is high health pools.

Unless it's a Xv1 scenario, there is a cap to how much damage can be dealt in a combat turn. If the opponents health is higher than your max damage, then it creates a scenario where the opponent has to make several mistakes and disregard healing (healing is and will always be OP in this game which is fine, you have to be able to recover from damage) in order for a death to occur. That's not skillful. Its not fun.

Cap PvP to a 25k~ health pool. Let players use active defenses to survive (dodge roll, block, damage shield, healing, CCing).

Call it hardcore PvP.

I'm not saying this will fix everything, but it would be a lot more fun. And you can have all the regen in the world, doesn't help if you didn't use it correctly. And you can proc all you want but you can't invest in health so they'll lose their luster, mine as well invest appropriately and use actual skills.

Ganking might become a serious problem, but gankers are always squishy so stay on your toes and you'll kill em.

This is how it was 5+ years ago. Players didn't stack 30k+ health, they had thumbs or died and learned from it.

On a side note I was PvPing last night and there was a Zerg of werewolves. A Zerg. Like 25+. All 35k+ health. They steamrolled. Talk about cancer.

At this point I hope they turn werewolves into a chihuahua. Make it unplayable. Cuz that was broken.

This is why I loved the time around 1.6.
Damage was very high, as were active defenses. Most people built for full stats instead of health.
So as long as you played active, you could hold out well. But once you made a mistake, you basically died immediately.

But then they reduced damage as well as healing/shields via battle spirit and it became slow. Add roll dodge stacking cost and no recovery while blocking like we do now and something like 1.6 would be quite perfect in my eyes.

And few of those obnoxious proc sets existed to give people afk damage. I think Zenimax changed and added alot of stuff that is good and right. But they also made things much slower over time.

relentless_turnip

Qbiken wrote: »

Imagine thinking Eternal Vigor isn´t one of the most overtuned sets in the game in terms of stat density. If anything the set should lose it´s 5 piece HP bonus and have the HP recovery lowered quite a bit.

It's incredibly stat dense, I don't think that's in debate. It is a case of it being pretty low on the nerf radar considering the amount of broken things in this patch.

Jsmalls

@katorga
Honestly I refuse to play in those environments. I'll do small scale PvP in off servers, imperial city, battlegrounds, etc.

Leave battle spirit health as is, you shouldn't have to fight for 20k+ health, should almost be a given. But cap health in battle spirit to a set max value.

If my streak and light attack weaving isn't fluid I turn the game off and try another time. I have no interest in playing in a scenario where the core mechanics are not working.

@Dracane
Yeah, those were the days...

Sanctum74

People still use sustain sets

FirmamentOfStars

Maybe just buff other stat sets to EV level, so that there is at least some motivation to use them instead of procs procs and more procs?

As long as we are in this proc set meta (damage and healing procs), nerfing stat sets is a terrible idea.