Close this thread, thanks

VoidBiscuit

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VoidBiscuit

Another thing is food. Item level locks food at certain levels.



I was probably between champion 100 and 110 for all of 3 random dungeons. The niche on most of the food in ESO actually being useful is so small it may as well not exist, which is a shame.

Malkiv

CP160 food is plentiful. There’s very few combinations of stats not available for CP160 food. Most of them are not level-locked, and scale with all levels and CP. And why did you think it’s a good idea to buy 400 level 10 potions anyways? 😂

redspecter23

Malkiv wrote: »

CP160 food is plentiful. There’s very few combinations of stats not available for CP160 food. Most of them are not level-locked, and scale with all levels and CP. And why did you think it’s a good idea to buy 400 level 10 potions anyways? 😂

I think the point was that those sort of items shoudn't exist or at least just scale as many newer consumables do. Crown store potions scale with you, regardless of what level you use them on. Those potions pictured are bought at level 10 and become less useful as you level up. They don't have to be this way, but that's the way it is currently.

The food pictured has even larger functional issues. At least with the potions, you could use them on new rerolled toons. With the food, it has a lifespan of about 20 minutes of game time per account... ever. Once you outlevel them, they are never useful again, even on alts. It's a relic from a time before account wide cp progression. They added the cp system but never went back to address the remnants of the old system that are now clunky and inelegant. cp10 - cp150 weapon/armor materials also fall into this category. Once you outlevel them, you never need them again outside of possibly crafting for a new player who will also just outlevel them quickly.

VoidBiscuit

@Malkiv CP160 food is plentiful, just as plentiful as food at every other level. The non level locked food is great, I'm saying that all food should be non level locked.

I thought it was a good idea to buy 400 of those potions, because I did not see that they were lvl 10, or even think to check that they might be a different level.

nukk3r

@VoidBiscuit hello there!

This is annoying AF. Unlike crafted potions they share the name with max level ones and some people are just scamming trash. Even at 110g/ea two stacks is a massive oof.

barney2525

I see what you are saying ... I empathize ... but I don't sympathize

When I made all gold gear that was 50 /150 it was because I didn't pay attention at the crafting station - That was on Me. It was Nobody else's fault. I was the one who did not pay attention to the details. And that is Literally all it was. Me, not paying attention. I did not blame the game or the system the game uses.

If a potion is going to have a Flat effect, for example +5000 health for 60 seconds, then it Must be set to specific levels. If you want potions to be for Any level, the amount of the effect must scale with the level of the character consuming it. Higher the level of the character drinking it - Lower the benefit for that character. This is for game balance.

You say item leveling should be removed. Are you suggesting that a level 3 character, right out of character creation/skip the intro, should be able to purchase or have crafted for them, gear that has the bonuses equal to what we have on 50/160 gear?
Do you want All 50/160 bonus gear available to be worn by any level ? Are you saying that All Mats are equal in strength and durability ? Something made with rubedite is no better than something made with jute cloth?

Your examples are not particularly strong: Low level gear being worn gets them kicked - Why would players Not have 50/160 gear in such dungeons/trials/whatever? Making the 50/150 mistake - Is it really the responsibility of the Game Company to make sure the Player pays attention?

Every MMO I play has the same philosophical concept. At low levels, you get low level gear. As you progress you can upgrade or replace said gear for better gear, all the way up to a top level of gear. It's a process. Nobody starts out with top tier gear from the get go.

Now, I admit, I get irritated when I screw up in this game. But that is Not the game's fault. It's mine. I am the one who is supposed to be paying attention.

We can't blame the game for our mistakes. And I don't think your suggestions have been particularly well thought out.

IMHO

Faiza

barney2525 wrote: »

I see what you are saying ... I empathize ... but I don't sympathize

When I made all gold gear that was 50 /150 it was because I didn't pay attention at the crafting station - That was on Me. It was Nobody else's fault. I was the one who did not pay attention to the details. And that is Literally all it was. Me, not paying attention. I did not blame the game or the system the game uses.

If a potion is going to have a Flat effect, for example +5000 health for 60 seconds, then it Must be set to specific levels. If you want potions to be for Any level, the amount of the effect must scale with the level of the character consuming it. Higher the level of the character drinking it - Lower the benefit for that character. This is for game balance.

You say item leveling should be removed. Are you suggesting that a level 3 character, right out of character creation/skip the intro, should be able to purchase or have crafted for them, gear that has the bonuses equal to what we have on 50/160 gear?
Do you want All 50/160 bonus gear available to be worn by any level ? Are you saying that All Mats are equal in strength and durability ? Something made with rubedite is no better than something made with jute cloth?

Your examples are not particularly strong: Low level gear being worn gets them kicked - Why would players Not have 50/160 gear in such dungeons/trials/whatever? Making the 50/150 mistake - Is it really the responsibility of the Game Company to make sure the Player pays attention?

Every MMO I play has the same philosophical concept. At low levels, you get low level gear. As you progress you can upgrade or replace said gear for better gear, all the way up to a top level of gear. It's a process. Nobody starts out with top tier gear from the get go.

Now, I admit, I get irritated when I screw up in this game. But that is Not the game's fault. It's mine. I am the one who is supposed to be paying attention.

We can't blame the game for our mistakes. And I don't think your suggestions have been particularly well thought out.

IMHO

I would go even further and say OP could've avoided this by just crafting the near identical potion himself - then he would know absolutely that he was getting the right item, and wouldn't be out a large chunk of alliance points.

sarahthes

Alliance pots should scale the same way the crown pots with the same effect do. I think that is what OP is getting at. OR they should be named differently if they are lower level, exactly the same way crafted potions are.

There is currently a large number of level 10 alliance pots floating around PC NA because someone bought the wrong level for AP, then listed them at the same price as the max level pots are currently selling for. People buy them, say bad words, and then immediately relist them to try to get their gold back once they realize. Meanwhile the low level pots stay in circulation.

If AP pots scaled the same way the crown ones do, this issue would not have occurred.

redspecter23

barney2525 wrote: »

I see what you are saying ... I empathize ... but I don't sympathize

When I made all gold gear that was 50 /150 it was because I didn't pay attention at the crafting station - That was on Me. It was Nobody else's fault. I was the one who did not pay attention to the details. And that is Literally all it was. Me, not paying attention. I did not blame the game or the system the game uses.

If a potion is going to have a Flat effect, for example +5000 health for 60 seconds, then it Must be set to specific levels. If you want potions to be for Any level, the amount of the effect must scale with the level of the character consuming it. Higher the level of the character drinking it - Lower the benefit for that character. This is for game balance.

You say item leveling should be removed. Are you suggesting that a level 3 character, right out of character creation/skip the intro, should be able to purchase or have crafted for them, gear that has the bonuses equal to what we have on 50/160 gear?
Do you want All 50/160 bonus gear available to be worn by any level ? Are you saying that All Mats are equal in strength and durability ? Something made with rubedite is no better than something made with jute cloth?

Your examples are not particularly strong: Low level gear being worn gets them kicked - Why would players Not have 50/160 gear in such dungeons/trials/whatever? Making the 50/150 mistake - Is it really the responsibility of the Game Company to make sure the Player pays attention?

Every MMO I play has the same philosophical concept. At low levels, you get low level gear. As you progress you can upgrade or replace said gear for better gear, all the way up to a top level of gear. It's a process. Nobody starts out with top tier gear from the get go.

Now, I admit, I get irritated when I screw up in this game. But that is Not the game's fault. It's mine. I am the one who is supposed to be paying attention.

We can't blame the game for our mistakes. And I don't think your suggestions have been particularly well thought out.

IMHO

You do realize that fully scaling potions and food/drink already exist in the game?

You do realize that when you equip level 40 gear on a level 40 toon, it's the exact same as cp 160 gear on a cp 160 toon?

The difference is that you spend the majority of your time at cp160 once you get there so you maybe don't realize you spend your entire leveling life outgrowing gear, becoming weaker due to scaling and equipping new gear just to keep up with where you end up at endgame.

These things currently happen in the game. We have crown potions that scale from level 1 all the way to cp160. Most new food added to the game including Witchmother's Potent Brew, Dubious Camoran Throne and many others also do this. You can use them at any level for a similar effect. If a level 10 toon buys these things, they can use them the same as a max level toon.

Item leveling is already removed on some items. It could be removed from others if the devs choose to do it. You can't argue that it unbalances anything as these things are already in the game, they are just not widespread or apply to all items currently.

erio

Im actually confused to what the problem is here. You somehow obtained lvl 10 potions... And youre mad? Whats the problem here?

lets not dumb down the game even more just because you didnt read the level when buying something....

VoidBiscuit

@barney2525 gear should scale with character level, not gear level. imo.

VoidBiscuit

So, people clearly didn't read the post.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

To reply to you, @barney2525

"Im actually confused to what the problem is here" - You claim to not know the problem
"You somehow obtained lvl 10 potions... And youre mad?" - You explain the problem
"Whats the problem here?" - You claim to not know the problem.

How do you think I obtained these lvl 10 potions?

A. Reading the potions were lvl 10, buying them and then going "Oh gosh darn, I meant to buy c150 potions"
B. Buying the wrong potions cause they have the same icon and I don't always remember to read.

"lets not dumb down the game even more just because you didnt read the level when buying something...."

Seems you already know the answer though anyway.



This is a QOL change that should already be part of the game. Much like the lvl 1 food that scales. It's not hard to understand.

VoidBiscuit

Also, hey @nukk3r

VoidBiscuit

@sarahthes this is exactly what I'm getting at.

VoidBiscuit

@Faiza all my chars are max level crafters, but I don't take pleasure in finding mats and crafting, I'd much rather buy potions. Unfortunately AFAIK there's no PVP vendor in Craglorn / Deshaan which is often where I'll be. Therefore I turn to the merchants and I buy the potions because it's simply easier.

@barney2525 when you, or I mess up, yes it is our responsibility not to mess up. But the point is to minimise the amount people can mess up things which no one would ever want to mess up.
Messing up in combat gives a challenge, messing up in gear creation or potion buying, there's absolutely no fun in that whatsoever.

AlnilamE

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

@Malkiv CP160 food is plentiful, just as plentiful as food at every other level. The non level locked food is great, I'm saying that all food should be non level locked.

I thought it was a good idea to buy 400 of those potions, because I did not see that they were lvl 10, or even think to check that they might be a different level.

So we should eliminate 90% of the food recipes in the game?

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

@barney2525 gear should scale with character level, not gear level. imo.

...and only ever have to make one set of gear, apparently.

VoidBiscuit

@AlnilamE Instead of removing 90%, just make them like the other 10%
I mean, sure if you only want to run one set.
It might be an idea to help newer player collect relevant gear sets instead of going "LMAO IT'S OUTDATED, JEBAITED" every 5 levels. Also gives people chance to collect, keep and test more sets as they level.

Gundug

AlnilamE wrote: »

So we should eliminate 90% of the food recipes in the game?

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

@barney2525 gear should scale with character level, not gear level. imo.

...and only ever have to make one set of gear, apparently.

90% of the food recipes are already redundant and have only a limited usefulness measured in an hour or two at the most. If leveling characters from 3-160 did not take such a ludicrously short time, all of the in-between levels of gear and consumables would make sense. As it is, a player can easily out level these items several times in a single day. The best solution to making the intermediate items useful would be to have leveling take much longer, although I expect this would upset many people.

The main issue with making everything scalable, however, is that would completely invalidate the crafting system. If a level 1 alchemist could make a potion of the same quality as a level 50, there would be no reason to improve the skill.

Edit: I do agree with the original poster in the case of vendor purchased consumables. There is no good reason for those to be level bound.

Stahlor

Hey, I like them! I can easily run them on a Magcro without having to spend the "out of control prices" for cp160 spell potions. If you remove them, make proper alchemy prices to not let 200 pots cost 30k.

AlnilamE

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

@AlnilamE Instead of removing 90%, just make them like the other 10%
I mean, sure if you only want to run one set.
It might be an idea to help newer player collect relevant gear sets instead of going "LMAO IT'S OUTDATED, JEBAITED" every 5 levels. Also gives people chance to collect, keep and test more sets as they level.

The sticker book makes any set item of any level useful if you don't have it yet. No more crying because you got a Willpower ring at vet 2 instead of vet 12.

As for making the recipes the same, that would be odd to say the least. We already have 3-4 recipes of each kind because of the old alliance split. Like, there are 31 purple foods (from level 20 to CP 150) and 31 purple drink recipes. What would be the point of keeping them all in game if they all do the exact same thing?

Now, that being said, I don't disagree that the alliance potions should either scale or be labelled differently according to level. But invalidating the entire crafting system of ESO just because you bought the wrong potions by mistake is a bit of an overreaction.

VoidBiscuit

@Gundug that's a really good point about the crafting. First valid point I've seen against it and I absolutely agree.
I'm sure there are other things that can be done such as more finely tuning the number of potions created, or the possibility to miss certain potion effects.

@Stahlor Good point. Potions are way overpriced.

finehair

cp160 potions are too strong for you traveler, they are fit for a beast, not a man.

VoidBiscuit

@finehair potion seller, what do I have to tell you to get your potions, why won't you trust me with your strongest potions, potion seller? I need them if I'm to be successful in battle. 😭

mobicera

Its just a result of the shift from vet rank to cp from years ago...
Back then you most certainly didn't speed through levels as much and the cp 60 foods you see now were probably vet 4 foods and useful for considerably longer.
You used vet rank 4 gear for quite a while as well...
Now with all the xp boosts and gains and cp as well as level scaling foods most of these things are only relevant to a collector.
However the vet rank to cp rank that caused this issue occurred so long ago and what you are basically saying was known however zos changed things in a manner that was probably easiest for them and 4 years later its highly unlikely that they have any intention of revising any of this.

Nordic__Knights

pvp is locked tell lvl 10 so why shouldnt the food/drinks be

zvavi

ap doesnt scale with level (unlike gold) so there is no reason for spell power potions of lower levels to cost less ap. make it all cost the same ap (720) and put an end to the market being flooded with lvl 10 alliance war potions.

Stahlor

@zvavi nobody forces you to buy level 10 potions. What's the problem with that?

zvavi

Stahlor wrote: »

nobody forces you to buy level 10 potions. What's the problem with that?

the problem is that the fact that selling the lvl 10 ones more profitable ap wise, means more ap flow goes into lvl 10 ones (for no good reason) wasting ap that would go to max lvl ones, making the max lvl ones price go up.

The main reason the lvl 10 ones sell is that people mostly get confused and buy them instead of 160 CP ones. Either give indication to the level easier, or yeet them from the market.

Stahlor

Or drop the ap prices for potions. 720ap is just crazy - you conquer a keep with a zerg and, if you are lucky, you can buy 10 potions for that. Ridiculous!

Scardan

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

So, people clearly didn't read the post.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

VoidBiscuit wrote: »

This is annoying.
It is avoidable, but people should not have to avoid it.

To reply to you, @barney2525

"Im actually confused to what the problem is here" - You claim to not know the problem
"You somehow obtained lvl 10 potions... And youre mad?" - You explain the problem
"Whats the problem here?" - You claim to not know the problem.

How do you think I obtained these lvl 10 potions?

A. Reading the potions were lvl 10, buying them and then going "Oh gosh darn, I meant to buy c150 potions"
B. Buying the wrong potions cause they have the same icon and I don't always remember to read.

"lets not dumb down the game even more just because you didnt read the level when buying something...."

Seems you already know the answer though anyway.



This is a QOL change that should already be part of the game. Much like the lvl 1 food that scales. It's not hard to understand.

What does the game have to do with it, what does it have to do with us if the mistake is that you were simply not paying attention? Just be careful. There is no need to remove scaling of objects anywhere.