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Targetable pets are wildly unbalanced in PvP right now
RiskyChalice863
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Targetable pets really is the worst thing about BGs at the moment. Tanky people with proc sets are fine IMO. Targetable pets, however, are both ridiculously unbalanced in terms of overall power in PvP, but also just are the least fun thing about the game.
In higher MMR games, it seems like almost everyone is running engine guardian, and there will be at least one or two Matriarchs, one or two players summoning Blastbones all the time, maybe a bear, and often an atronach out there. Maybe it is better on PC, but the targeting on console is such that it’s basically impossible to reliably hit what you’re wanting to hit if there’s so many pets. And it gets even worse when there’s group fights where people are in a big ball fighting each other. You can easily have a fight where there’s 7 or 8 pets sitting around constantly blocking the ability to target actual players.
What makes it even worse is that these pets seem to have incredibly massive damage reduction in PvP. A Matriarch has only like 14k health, but I’ll accidentally hit it with something that would absolutely melt most players and it’ll do barely any damage to the Matriarch. Same with Engine Guardian. It’s just an absolute waste of time to try to kill pets. Maybe they have particularly huge damage reduction against AOEs (I run an AOE-heavy build at the moment, so that would particularly limit the damage I could do to them)? Regardless of what it is, it makes trying to kill them a complete waste of time, and it is utterly ridiculous. It basically means that players with pets (and their teammates, if they stay near each other) effectively have enormous damage reduction and partial cc immunity (since they eat half the stuns people are aiming at the actually player) with no viable counterplay, on abilities that are balanced around being good without that effect.
These pets need to be untargetable or these abilities just absolutely need to be completely and utterly gutted of virtually any other power in PvP. Pets are not balanced around the fact that them being targetable makes them the best defensive abilities in the game in PvP. Rather, they actually are good abilities otherwise, and happen to *also* be the equivalent of having utterly massive damage reduction and having immovable pots up half the time. They should not get both. Either they are targetable and should be virtually useless otherwise in PvP, or they should not be targetable in PvP. Honestly, for example, even if Engine Guardian provided zero resource return whatsoever and was *just* a damage sponge that opponents accidentally target, it would still be by far the best defensive monster set in the game and people would absolutely still use it. The fact that it provides good sustain and healing as well just makes it an obviously overpowered PvP ability that almost every good player runs now. Engine Guardian is the biggest offender—since it stays so close to the player—but honestly the other pets are also not properly balanced around the powerful defensive effect they give their user just by being targetable.
In higher MMR games, it seems like almost everyone is running engine guardian, and there will be at least one or two Matriarchs, one or two players summoning Blastbones all the time, maybe a bear, and often an atronach out there. Maybe it is better on PC, but the targeting on console is such that it’s basically impossible to reliably hit what you’re wanting to hit if there’s so many pets. And it gets even worse when there’s group fights where people are in a big ball fighting each other. You can easily have a fight where there’s 7 or 8 pets sitting around constantly blocking the ability to target actual players.
What makes it even worse is that these pets seem to have incredibly massive damage reduction in PvP. A Matriarch has only like 14k health, but I’ll accidentally hit it with something that would absolutely melt most players and it’ll do barely any damage to the Matriarch. Same with Engine Guardian. It’s just an absolute waste of time to try to kill pets. Maybe they have particularly huge damage reduction against AOEs (I run an AOE-heavy build at the moment, so that would particularly limit the damage I could do to them)? Regardless of what it is, it makes trying to kill them a complete waste of time, and it is utterly ridiculous. It basically means that players with pets (and their teammates, if they stay near each other) effectively have enormous damage reduction and partial cc immunity (since they eat half the stuns people are aiming at the actually player) with no viable counterplay, on abilities that are balanced around being good without that effect.
These pets need to be untargetable or these abilities just absolutely need to be completely and utterly gutted of virtually any other power in PvP. Pets are not balanced around the fact that them being targetable makes them the best defensive abilities in the game in PvP. Rather, they actually are good abilities otherwise, and happen to *also* be the equivalent of having utterly massive damage reduction and having immovable pots up half the time. They should not get both. Either they are targetable and should be virtually useless otherwise in PvP, or they should not be targetable in PvP. Honestly, for example, even if Engine Guardian provided zero resource return whatsoever and was *just* a damage sponge that opponents accidentally target, it would still be by far the best defensive monster set in the game and people would absolutely still use it. The fact that it provides good sustain and healing as well just makes it an obviously overpowered PvP ability that almost every good player runs now. Engine Guardian is the biggest offender—since it stays so close to the player—but honestly the other pets are also not properly balanced around the powerful defensive effect they give their user just by being targetable.
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faeeichenlaub✭✭✭✭I hate when a pet gets the brunt of targeted damage, but thee opposite I find aggregating with werewolf running their packs of wolves, I know it's not a pet per se , but they constantly find you, attack you at great range from the player and you can't kill em or CC slow them. if you can't target them they should be like gloom wolves or something. Ughh I think all animal animations should be targetable.Edited by faeeichenlaub on January 5, 2021 7:02PM"Azura give me strength, Let my voice change the world as long as I am in it."0 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭faeeichenlaub wrote: »I hate when a pet gets the brunt of targeted damage, but thee opposite I find aggregating with werewolf running their packs of wolves, I know it's not a pet per se , but they constantly find you, attack you at great range from the player and you can't kill em or CC slow them. if you can't target them they should be like gloom wolves or something. Ughh I think all animal animations should be targetable.
I think one can kind of think of that as like a DoT though. They don’t do tons of damage, and basically just do a little bit of damage consistently, even if the player themself is no longer nearby. As with DoTs, the counter is basically just to heal through it. Granted, you can purge DoTs and you can’t purge pet damage, but that doesn’t strike me as a huge problem given that not every class or build even has a purge and it’s not like pet damage is some massive damage component that will destroy you if you can’t purge it.0 -
Weesacs✭✭✭✭I've been complaining about this nonsense for a long time now.
However ... it's all just working as intended apparently 👍High Elf Templar
PS4 - EU - DC
Over 37,500 Achievements!0 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭faeeichenlaub wrote: »I hate when a pet gets the brunt of targeted damage, but thee opposite I find aggregating with werewolf running their packs of wolves, I know it's not a pet per se , but they constantly find you, attack you at great range from the player and you can't kill em or CC slow them. if you can't target them they should be like gloom wolves or something. Ughh I think all animal animations should be targetable.
I find the Daedroth from Maw of the Inferno just as (or even more) annoying. Huge Oblivion-slime-wrought-lizard-thing doesn’t realize his master is halfway across the Battleground map and keeps breathing fire on me as I try to rebuff and heal back. Can’t stun it, knock it back, bash it, kill it, or purge it. Just have to wait for it to go away and stop taking up a chunk of my screen.
IMO, if it does damage, it should be targetable: ie. able to be killed, stunned, knocked back, bashed, etc. DoTs like Soul Trap don’t crowd my screen. Daedroths and Twilights do. If it provides utility, sustain, healing, buffs, etc. for the user, it should not be targetable. If my execute isn’t hitting the netch, why is it hitting the Engine Guardian.0 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭faeeichenlaub wrote: »I hate when a pet gets the brunt of targeted damage, but thee opposite I find aggregating with werewolf running their packs of wolves, I know it's not a pet per se , but they constantly find you, attack you at great range from the player and you can't kill em or CC slow them. if you can't target them they should be like gloom wolves or something. Ughh I think all animal animations should be targetable.
I find the Daedroth from Maw of the Inferno just as (or even more) annoying. Huge Oblivion-slime-wrought-lizard-thing doesn’t realize his master is halfway across the Battleground map and keeps breathing fire on me as I try to rebuff and heal back. Can’t stun it, knock it back, bash it, kill it, or purge it. Just have to wait for it to go away and stop taking up a chunk of my screen.
IMO, if it does damage, it should be targetable: ie. able to be killed, stunned, knocked back, bashed, etc. DoTs like Soul Trap don’t crowd my screen. Daedroths and Twilights do. If it provides utility, sustain, healing, buffs, etc. for the user, it should not be targetable. If my execute isn’t hitting the netch, why is it hitting the Engine Guardian.
My main build uses Maw of the Infernal, and I sure wish it still was targetable because it would make it significantly more powerful. But I don’t think it would be balanced. You mention the Deadroth crowds your screen, but it crowding your screen is definitely worse if it’s targetable.
DoTs like soul trap don’t crowd your screen and they can be purged, but DoTs also can’t be dodged. Untargetable pets are basically dodgeable but unpurgeable DoTs.
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red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is extremely annoying, as the pets have a health bar but are invincible. Even if you try to take it out, so that the sorc has to spend 1 second summoning it again, it won't work. As soon as the sorc streaks, the pets teleport to the player at full health.
What needs to happen if for the pets to have to find a path or get unsummoned if the player runs/streaks half way across the map.
Another weird bug is that if you even tab-target a player, with no pet in sight and hit them with the meteor, it will ALWAYS go to the pet, regardless where it is on the screen. That's especially evident when the sorc streaks away. You see the cue under the player that a meteor is about to hit them and boom, it lands on the engine guardian or matriarch. Even if it takes out 13.999 of the health bar, it doesn't matter. If the player breaks the distance limit between them and a pet, pet will just teleport at full health.
You can't really blame the players for abusing something that will provide them with 100% damage reduction in PvP. It's ZOS that needs to sort it out. The influx of Sorcs in PvP is enormous and you can see why. Best damage combo in the game, teleport ability to escape half way across the map, a zoo of pets being in essence a permanent, indestructible shield and incredible speed attached to an ability that also makes you tanky and deal passive aoe damage, proccing many broken sets.
Don't get me wrong, I do not blame the players. Sorc has seen many, many, many nerfs and being the only pure wizard/battlemage flavour in the game it is an RPG heaven. It probably deserves it's 5 minutes of fame but that should be through direct buffs to the class, not having to find a way to abuse the game's mechanics.PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade0 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hate how temporary pets like blast bones, engine guardian are targetable and always seem to jump in the line of fire. I can understand pets like the warden bear being targetable but why are those ones? Why not warden jelly fish, necro spirit mender or the archer/caster pet they get? Why not just make every summoned entity targetable?0 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Engine guardian is the one of the most annoying things ever lol. I'm not to bothered by sorc pets though. Haven't been seeing a whole lot lately in BG's anyway. It's far more annoying than proc sets. I can build against proc sets or even put my pride aside and not gimp myself on purpose and throw on proc sets of my own. Pets though, I can't do anything against. Super frustrating when you are about to finish someone and they are running away and engine guardian pops up and I hit it instead, and heaven forbid its giving health now they are out of execute range lol.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!2 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭faeeichenlaub wrote: »I hate when a pet gets the brunt of targeted damage, but thee opposite I find aggregating with werewolf running their packs of wolves, I know it's not a pet per se , but they constantly find you, attack you at great range from the player and you can't kill em or CC slow them. if you can't target them they should be like gloom wolves or something. Ughh I think all animal animations should be targetable.
I find the Daedroth from Maw of the Inferno just as (or even more) annoying. Huge Oblivion-slime-wrought-lizard-thing doesn’t realize his master is halfway across the Battleground map and keeps breathing fire on me as I try to rebuff and heal back. Can’t stun it, knock it back, bash it, kill it, or purge it. Just have to wait for it to go away and stop taking up a chunk of my screen.
IMO, if it does damage, it should be targetable: ie. able to be killed, stunned, knocked back, bashed, etc. DoTs like Soul Trap don’t crowd my screen. Daedroths and Twilights do. If it provides utility, sustain, healing, buffs, etc. for the user, it should not be targetable. If my execute isn’t hitting the netch, why is it hitting the Engine Guardian.
And that is what's going to happen if they are untargetable like people are complaining about now. Bad idea.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.1 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭faeeichenlaub wrote: »I hate when a pet gets the brunt of targeted damage, but thee opposite I find aggregating with werewolf running their packs of wolves, I know it's not a pet per se , but they constantly find you, attack you at great range from the player and you can't kill em or CC slow them. if you can't target them they should be like gloom wolves or something. Ughh I think all animal animations should be targetable.
I find the Daedroth from Maw of the Inferno just as (or even more) annoying. Huge Oblivion-slime-wrought-lizard-thing doesn’t realize his master is halfway across the Battleground map and keeps breathing fire on me as I try to rebuff and heal back. Can’t stun it, knock it back, bash it, kill it, or purge it. Just have to wait for it to go away and stop taking up a chunk of my screen.
IMO, if it does damage, it should be targetable: ie. able to be killed, stunned, knocked back, bashed, etc. DoTs like Soul Trap don’t crowd my screen. Daedroths and Twilights do. If it provides utility, sustain, healing, buffs, etc. for the user, it should not be targetable. If my execute isn’t hitting the netch, why is it hitting the Engine Guardian.
And that is what's going to happen if they are untargetable like people are complaining about now. Bad idea.
Untargetable pets are just so clearly less objectionable than targetable ones. Targetable ones effectively confer the player who has them with massive damage resistance that is not an intended element of the ability (or at least not taken into account in the power budget of the ability). Meanwhile, untargetable pets truly are basically just DoTs that are dodgeable by unpurgeable. Their damage really isn’t oppressive in the slightest.
Moreover, I’ll note that being able to target them is absolutely not the same as being able to kill them. They have so much damage reduction that you can’t really kill them anyways—at least not without investing so much into doing so that it’s just 100% not worth the temporary decrease in damage you might take from them.
Edited by RiskyChalice863 on January 7, 2021 5:26AM0 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭RiskyChalice863 wrote: »faeeichenlaub wrote: »I hate when a pet gets the brunt of targeted damage, but thee opposite I find aggregating with werewolf running their packs of wolves, I know it's not a pet per se , but they constantly find you, attack you at great range from the player and you can't kill em or CC slow them. if you can't target them they should be like gloom wolves or something. Ughh I think all animal animations should be targetable.
I find the Daedroth from Maw of the Inferno just as (or even more) annoying. Huge Oblivion-slime-wrought-lizard-thing doesn’t realize his master is halfway across the Battleground map and keeps breathing fire on me as I try to rebuff and heal back. Can’t stun it, knock it back, bash it, kill it, or purge it. Just have to wait for it to go away and stop taking up a chunk of my screen.
IMO, if it does damage, it should be targetable: ie. able to be killed, stunned, knocked back, bashed, etc. DoTs like Soul Trap don’t crowd my screen. Daedroths and Twilights do. If it provides utility, sustain, healing, buffs, etc. for the user, it should not be targetable. If my execute isn’t hitting the netch, why is it hitting the Engine Guardian.
And that is what's going to happen if they are untargetable like people are complaining about now. Bad idea.
Untargetable pets are just so clearly less objectionable than targetable ones. Targetable ones effectively confer the player who has them with massive damage resistance that is not an intended element of the ability (or at least not taken into account in the power budget of the ability). Meanwhile, untargetable pets truly are basically just DoTs that are dodgeable by unpurgeable. Their damage really isn’t oppressive in the slightest.
Moreover, I’ll note that being able to target them is absolutely not the same as being able to kill them. They have so much damage reduction that you can’t really kill them anyways—at least not without investing so much into doing so that it’s just 100% not worth the temporary decrease in damage you might take from them.
Imagine sorcerer pets being untargetable. The main advantage of sorc pets is the abilities they bring, matriarch heals without being able to kill it would be insane.
Their downside is if they're killed the sorc loses one of their main abilities on TWO bars until they resummon. Btw resummoning is a 2 second channel as well. They are designed with this weakness in mind. Fighting someone who exploits that hurts.
Btw when's the last time pet sorcs were relevant?
On the other hand, there are pets I absolutely despise. Those being blastbones and engine guardian. They aren't around long enough and have no reason for being targeted.Edited by Ryuvain on January 7, 2021 6:13AMThat one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭RiskyChalice863 wrote: »faeeichenlaub wrote: »I hate when a pet gets the brunt of targeted damage, but thee opposite I find aggregating with werewolf running their packs of wolves, I know it's not a pet per se , but they constantly find you, attack you at great range from the player and you can't kill em or CC slow them. if you can't target them they should be like gloom wolves or something. Ughh I think all animal animations should be targetable.
I find the Daedroth from Maw of the Inferno just as (or even more) annoying. Huge Oblivion-slime-wrought-lizard-thing doesn’t realize his master is halfway across the Battleground map and keeps breathing fire on me as I try to rebuff and heal back. Can’t stun it, knock it back, bash it, kill it, or purge it. Just have to wait for it to go away and stop taking up a chunk of my screen.
IMO, if it does damage, it should be targetable: ie. able to be killed, stunned, knocked back, bashed, etc. DoTs like Soul Trap don’t crowd my screen. Daedroths and Twilights do. If it provides utility, sustain, healing, buffs, etc. for the user, it should not be targetable. If my execute isn’t hitting the netch, why is it hitting the Engine Guardian.
And that is what's going to happen if they are untargetable like people are complaining about now. Bad idea.
Untargetable pets are just so clearly less objectionable than targetable ones. Targetable ones effectively confer the player who has them with massive damage resistance that is not an intended element of the ability (or at least not taken into account in the power budget of the ability). Meanwhile, untargetable pets truly are basically just DoTs that are dodgeable by unpurgeable. Their damage really isn’t oppressive in the slightest.
Moreover, I’ll note that being able to target them is absolutely not the same as being able to kill them. They have so much damage reduction that you can’t really kill them anyways—at least not without investing so much into doing so that it’s just 100% not worth the temporary decrease in damage you might take from them.
Imagine sorcerer pets being untargetable. The main advantage of sorc pets is the abilities they bring, matriarch heals without being able to kill it would be insane.
Their downside is if they're killed the sorc loses one of their main abilities on TWO bars until they resummon. Btw resummoning is a 2 second channel as well. They are designed with this weakness in mind. Fighting someone who exploits that hurts.
Btw when's the last time pet sorcs were relevant?
On the other hand, there are pets I absolutely despise. Those being blastbones and engine guardian. They aren't around long enough and have no reason for being targeted.
I’d be fine if Sorc pets were the only targetable ones in PvP. That said, the weakness you’re talking about isn’t really a weakness in PvP because pets (including Sorc pets) have such massive damage resistance that they’re effectively unkillable (or at least they certainly are basically unkillable if your build does AOE damage). It’s not worth taking a really long time and a ton of resources just to eventually force the other player to have to do a 2 second channel if they want the pet back. It’s not a real counterplay, because the supposed counterplay is simply not worth trying to do.
Basically, it is just objectively true that, at least in BGs (which is what I play the vast majority of the time), it is never worth it to try to kill a pet. It just isn’t. So a pet being targetable doesn’t provide some kind of counterplay. Literally all it does is effectively offer the player using the pet about 30-50% damage resistance because your abilities end up targeting (but not killing) the pet.
Edited by RiskyChalice863 on January 7, 2021 7:40AM0 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭@Ryuvain
I’ll put this a different way. In order to kill a Matriarch in no-CP, I would legitimately have to spend about 25-30 seconds straight damaging it, even with a build I run that melts lots of players in a couple seconds. And that’s assuming the pet doesn’t get a heal or damage shield in that time. If they’re getting that, then we start to get to territory where I would literally not be able to kill the pet ever. That’s the kind of damage resistance pets have. It is very obviously not worth spending 25-30 seconds or more trying to do nothing more than kill something that the other player can simply resummon in 2 seconds. No reasonable person would try to do that. So we are left with situations where people damage the pet without trying to. That happens quite a lot. But in that sort of scenario it is obviously not enough to kill the pet. Which means that the pet essentially just functions as massive extra damage resistance (I’d estimate with a player who tries at all to stay near their pet, we’re talking at least 30% effective damage resistance). That is overpowered and there’s really no argument to the contrary. And there’s certainly not even remotely an argument that these abilities would be weaker if the pets weren’t targetable. That’s just a crazy notion.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In my opinion it depends on what summoned pet/targetable NPC it is.
* Engine Guardian: The biggest problem with this set isn´t that it´s targetable, but the fact that it doesn´t despawn after you´ve interrupted it. Bashing or interrupting the sphere should cause it to despawn and not continue to follow the user and give it resources.
* Chokethorn: Same issue as with Engine Guardian. Bashing or interrupting the plant should cause it to despawn. Also needs to stop healing through walls and solid objects. Line of sighting the healing beam should break it.
* Sorcerer pets: The problem here is that the pets have an absurd amount of damage reduction to certain abilites (Damage over time effects). This was implemented to prevent them from dying too often in PvE. This damage reduction needs to go for PvP. I don´t Believe making their pets un-targetable is a good idea without making the pets temporary. Also, having the HP of the pet reset whenever the sorc teleports away could use a rework.
Edited by Qbiken on January 7, 2021 8:14AM2 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭@RiskyChalice863
Idk what's different but my experience is the opposite. I play a lot of bgs myself. My pets constantly get murdered and I find myself without their much needed ability or resummoning a lot because they love to chase some guy in the other side of the map.
I think they do have aoe reduction built in, to prevent them being casually murdered while not targeting them. You don't have any good single target damage? Someone with evasion would counter that easily.
Maybe you play on a different console or server but petsorc is dead metawise. At most they're annoying without getting anything done. I say this as someone who tried to make petsorc work, but it wasn't going to happen.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my opinion it depends on what summoned pet/targetable NPC it is.
* Engine Guardian: The biggest problem with this set isn´t that it´s targetable, but the fact that it doesn´t despawn after you´ve interrupted it. Bashing or interrupting the sphere should cause it to despawn and not continue to follow the user and give it resources.
* Chokethorn: Same issue as with Engine Guardian. Bashing or interrupting the plant should cause it to despawn. Also needs to stop healing through walls and solid objects. Line of sighting the healing beam should break it.
* Sorcerer pets: The problem here is that the pets have an absurd amount of damage reduction to certain abilites (Damage over time effects). This was implemented to prevent them from dying too often in PvE. This damage reduction needs to go for PvP. I don´t Believe making their pets un-targetable is a good idea without making the pets temporary. Also, having the HP of the pet reset whenever the sorc teleports away could use a rework.
I agree with most of what you said, but why use dots on pets? Just burst them with your ST spammable. My guild does that to me all the time in sparring sessions.
I already despise monster pets being targetable. I think maw should be targetable but also killable since all it does is damage tho.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If sorc pets were untargetable and still had the abilities they have now; then some builds would down right be impossible to kill.
Clannfear on a health sorc is a potential 10k heal, if you couldn't kill it, how would you take oit the build?
They would just need to adjust somethings along with the targeting.0 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is actually a good playstyle, I need to try it. Anyone want to join my new guild Ball of Sorcerer Pets?1 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know your pain and playing a heavy attack channel build is the worst targeting in the whole game. There is no chance to target anyone if there is a pet next to your target. Absolutely no chance, even if you use tab target on the player.
I constantly say that my targeting with heavy lighting attack is like I my character is drunk.Because I can!0 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »If sorc pets were untargetable and still had the abilities they have now; then some builds would down right be impossible to kill.
Clannfear on a health sorc is a potential 10k heal, if you couldn't kill it, how would you take oit the build?
They would just need to adjust somethings along with the targeting.Waffennacht wrote: »If sorc pets were untargetable and still had the abilities they have now; then some builds would down right be impossible to kill.
Clannfear on a health sorc is a potential 10k heal, if you couldn't kill it, how would you take oit the build?
They would just need to adjust somethings along with the targeting.
Wouldn’t it be essentially the same as Arctic Blast on a health Warden though? That’s obviously quite strong at the moment, but having a similar heal on an unkillable Clannfear wouldn’t be unprecedentedly strong.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RiskyChalice863 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »If sorc pets were untargetable and still had the abilities they have now; then some builds would down right be impossible to kill.
Clannfear on a health sorc is a potential 10k heal, if you couldn't kill it, how would you take oit the build?
They would just need to adjust somethings along with the targeting.Waffennacht wrote: »If sorc pets were untargetable and still had the abilities they have now; then some builds would down right be impossible to kill.
Clannfear on a health sorc is a potential 10k heal, if you couldn't kill it, how would you take oit the build?
They would just need to adjust somethings along with the targeting.
Wouldn’t it be essentially the same as Arctic Blast on a health Warden though? That’s obviously quite strong at the moment, but having a similar heal on an unkillable Clannfear wouldn’t be unprecedentedly strong.
I thought clannfear had a better curve than Artic on the upfront heal, maybe not
Though im thinking about the passives linked to having a pet out as well (such as the 8% max health)
I was particularly looking at it as a sorc with my pet out, and I feel that my only true weakness is when they kill my healing pet. In this particular situation, I feel like making the pet unkillable without changing something would just buff the hell outta the build.1 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭@RiskyChalice863
Idk what's different but my experience is the opposite. I play a lot of bgs myself. My pets constantly get murdered and I find myself without their much needed ability or resummoning a lot because they love to chase some guy in the other side of the map.
I think they do have aoe reduction built in, to prevent them being casually murdered while not targeting them. You don't have any good single target damage? Someone with evasion would counter that easily.
Maybe you play on a different console or server but petsorc is dead metawise. At most they're annoying without getting anything done. I say this as someone who tried to make petsorc work, but it wasn't going to happen.
The main build I’m using in PvP at the moment is a heavy attack build. It uses lightning heavy attacks for the damage basically, so it’s both AOE and DoT damage (though I think the last lightning heavy attack tick is direct damage). Meaning that to the extent that pets have additional damage reduction for AOE damage and for DoT damage, it might hit my build a lot.
I suppose in theory I could probably kill a pet faster by using my back barred Resto staff on them, since that’s not AOE and doesn’t do all that much less damage than a lightning heavy attack. But I’m pretty sure it’d still kill it really slowly. Haven’t tried that though. I still think that having to be weirdly attacking a pet for a while on my back bar isn’t a real counterplay when they can just summon it again in 2 seconds anyways. And that’s not even getting into the pets like engine guardian and Blastbones that can’t really reasonably be killed during the short time they’re up, so they’re absolutely just pure damage mitigation when you hit them.
Regarding evasion countering the build, in theory maybe, but I’ve not encountered it being a problem. If someone gets major evasion from Shuffle, then they’re in 5 medium armor and so they’re almost certainly not that tanky. No one really uses the NB evasion ability or Deceptive Predator, and I guess people sometimes use Blade Cloak, but dual wield isn’t very common at the moment. That was a much bigger issue for the build back when BRP DW was really common.I know your pain and playing a heavy attack channel build is the worst targeting in the whole game. There is no chance to target anyone if there is a pet next to your target. Absolutely no chance, even if you use tab target on the player.
I constantly say that my targeting with heavy lighting attack is like I my character is drunk.
Yeah, I sometimes wait to start my channel until I’m sure it will hit the player and not the pet, and somehow it hits the pet anyways. It’s really bad.Waffennacht wrote: »RiskyChalice863 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »If sorc pets were untargetable and still had the abilities they have now; then some builds would down right be impossible to kill.
Clannfear on a health sorc is a potential 10k heal, if you couldn't kill it, how would you take oit the build?
They would just need to adjust somethings along with the targeting.Waffennacht wrote: »If sorc pets were untargetable and still had the abilities they have now; then some builds would down right be impossible to kill.
Clannfear on a health sorc is a potential 10k heal, if you couldn't kill it, how would you take oit the build?
They would just need to adjust somethings along with the targeting.
Wouldn’t it be essentially the same as Arctic Blast on a health Warden though? That’s obviously quite strong at the moment, but having a similar heal on an unkillable Clannfear wouldn’t be unprecedentedly strong.
I thought clannfear had a better curve than Artic on the upfront heal, maybe not
Though im thinking about the passives linked to having a pet out as well (such as the 8% max health)
I was particularly looking at it as a sorc with my pet out, and I feel that my only true weakness is when they kill my healing pet. In this particular situation, I feel like making the pet unkillable without changing something would just buff the hell outta the build.
Yeah I think you are actually right that the Clannfear burst heal is a bit bigger. It’s like 25% of health versus 30% or something like that. That said, the Clannfear heal has a base cost that’s like 450 magicka higher, and with Arctic Wind’s HoT it does more healing overall (the Arctic Wind HoT does 3% per second for 5 seconds, I believe, so Arctic Wind basically scales higher in terms of overall healing unless you’re sitting there actually constantly spamming these abilities), and it’s also a stun. The Clannfear effectively is a permanent small DoT, so that’s nice, but Arctic Wind does have a damage component too (albeit not a permanent one that seeks people out). Basically, I don’t really think the Clannfear burst heal would be out of line with Arctic Wind’s power budget if the Clannfear weren’t targetable. In fact, I tend to think Arctic Wind would still be a solidly better ability.
Edited by RiskyChalice863 on January 8, 2021 12:58AM0