The Problem with Healing in ESO

Starlight_Whisper

The fact is you can skip mechics if dps us to high

Taleof2Cities

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

The fact is you can skip mechics if dps us to high

That doesn't apply across all content and playstyles though, @Starlight_Whisper ... though I think you're probably aware of that.

If you try to skip the enemy team's mechanics in Cyrodiil (without your team's healer) it's not going to end well.

Starlight_Whisper

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

The fact is you can skip mechics if dps us to high

That doesn't apply across all content and playstyles though, @Starlight_Whisper ... though I think you're probably aware of that.

If you try to skip the enemy team's mechanics in Cyrodiil (without your team's healer) it's not going to end well.

Okay fair enough but cydrolli Healer problem is way different and recent. Wide scale the biggest problem is starts at we can still mechs if we increase dps

validifyedneb18_ESO

In dungeons, yes - often.
However I a lot of content, including trials, it is the healer that enables dds to go 100% full damage without worrying about survival outside of standing in red.

zvavi

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

The fact is you can skip mechics if dps us to high

many times you cant really skip mechanics in dlc dungeons, it is just that you dont feel them overlapping with correct focusing and enough dmg

edit: another question i have to you man, you expect content to become harder when you have more damage?

idk

Only groups with enough damage can skip mechanics and outside of older content made trivial due to the power creep most groups lack the damage to skip mechanics.

However, being able to skip mechanics is not an issue with healing and healing is very much irrelevant to it. The issue is the power creep that allows more and more players to skip mechanics. New trial content is called to the current damage level but all the old content continues to become trivial and boring.

What needs to happen is Zos needs to rebalance the game to the current power level.

Edit: @zvavi appropriately pointed out many mechanics cannot be skipped in newer content.

Calm_Fury

I don't really think that is the main issue. As others have said, this only really happen with really, really high DPS groups with the most recent content.

The main 2 problems with healing are:

1. Heals scale with offensive stats, so it is very easy for DPS to have great heals
2. Almost all damage in dungeons is either a one-shot or easily out-healed by the offensive scaled heals from the DPS.

It is hard to fix 1 without impacting solo PvP too much, but still. Make the healing portion that scale from offensive stats a lot smaller, and boost active healing choices like traits, Mundus and sets a lot stronger.

If you really cut healing power from Stamina/Magica and Spell/Weapon Power, and transfer that to The Ritual, Healing sets and Powered trait, healing for a lot becomes an active choice that every healer would make, but every DPS wouldn't, and they would all want a healer again since it wouldn't be so hard to out-heal non-one-shot damage.

To fix number 2, it is easy... Make the damage be more over time so players can react, but strong.

Too much damage in ESO is a one-shot that you can't really react to. So everyone just stacks DPS to skip those mechanics because, if you are not a tank, you are dead anyway. The other damage is just outhealed so passively with the regular heals that nobody even notices them.

As long as every DPS gets more powerful heals the more they increase their DPS stats, healers won't be needed. DPS now get healing for free just by passively investing in what they would invest in anyway. Make that an active choice of EITHER more DPS or more Healing and then this is fixed.

Hotdog_23

One issue with higher DPS to consider with healing is less time to take damage also.

Less time to kill something + less damage taken = less healing needed.

Stay safe and have fun

Starlight_Whisper

zvavi wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

The fact is you can skip mechics if dps us to high

many times you cant really skip mechanics in dlc dungeons, it is just that you dont feel them overlapping with correct focusing and enough dmg

edit: another question i have to you man, you expect content to become harder when you have more damage?

Nah I except mechics to play out.

Starlight_Whisper

Calm_Fury wrote: »

I don't really think that is the main issue. As others have said, this only really happen with really, really high DPS groups with the most recent content.

The main 2 problems with healing are:

1. Heals scale with offensive stats, so it is very easy for DPS to have great heals
2. Almost all damage in dungeons is either a one-shot or easily out-healed by the offensive scaled heals from the DPS.

It is hard to fix 1 without impacting solo PvP too much, but still. Make the healing portion that scale from offensive stats a lot smaller, and boost active healing choices like traits, Mundus and sets a lot stronger.

If you really cut healing power from Stamina/Magica and Spell/Weapon Power, and transfer that to The Ritual, Healing sets and Powered trait, healing for a lot becomes an active choice that every healer would make, but every DPS wouldn't, and they would all want a healer again since it wouldn't be so hard to out-heal non-one-shot damage.

To fix number 2, it is easy... Make the damage be more over time so players can react, but strong.

Too much damage in ESO is a one-shot that you can't really react to. So everyone just stacks DPS to skip those mechanics because, if you are not a tank, you are dead anyway. The other damage is just outhealed so passively with the regular heals that nobody even notices them.

As long as every DPS gets more powerful heals the more they increase their DPS stats, healers won't be needed. DPS now get healing for free just by passively investing in what they would invest in anyway. Make that an active choice of EITHER more DPS or more Healing and then this is fixed.

You know what. You convinced me.

The problem is making healing more of active choice. As pointed out in your 1 and 2.

zvavi

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

The fact is you can skip mechics if dps us to high

many times you cant really skip mechanics in dlc dungeons, it is just that you dont feel them overlapping with correct focusing and enough dmg

edit: another question i have to you man, you expect content to become harder when you have more damage?

Nah I except mechics to play out.

Show me a video where mechanics are skipped in vMoS HM, vMHK HM, vFL HM, vSCP HM, vCT HM, vSG HM, vDoM HM, vFV HM, vLoM HM, vMGF HM, vIR HM, vUG HM, vBRF HM, vRoM HM, vCoS HM (this one might skip the "don't move a muscle" but it is dependent on luck), vFH HM.

BXR_Lonestar

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

The fact is you can skip mechics if dps us to high

I'd add to that. In the more difficult content the game has to offer, overuse of OHK mechanics also marginalizes the healer role because what good is a healer if everything can one-shot you? At that point, its more beneficial to carry a third DPS to more quickly eliminate priority threats.

AcadianPaladin

As a healer, I'd like to see one shot mechanics go away. Very frustrating.

As far as spell power and magicka scaling both heals and damage, that is what makes my healer enjoyable. She has strong heals and can do enough damage to comfortably solo quest content. Be careful making healers choose between damage and heals. As much as I love healing, I'd retire from healing and become a dd. That is why I don't play my tank - overland/quest content is too tedious to be fun. I find tanks only fun in groups which is no where near half my play time. And I'm not going to run separate sets for differing content; I won't do that on my tank and would not do it on a healer. If it comes to that, again, I'll just throw in the towel and go solo-dps.

the1andonlyskwex

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

As a healer, I'd like to see one shot mechanics go away. Very frustrating.

As far as spell power and magicka scaling both heals and damage, that is what makes my healer enjoyable. She has strong heals and can do enough damage to comfortably solo quest content. Be careful making healers choose between damage and heals. As much as I love healing, I'd retire from healing and become a dd. That is why I don't play my tank - overland/quest content is too tedious to be fun. I find tanks only fun in groups which is no where near half my play time. And I'm not going to run separate sets for differing content; I won't do that on my tank and would not do it on a healer. If it comes to that, again, I'll just throw in the towel and go solo-dps.

I probably wouldn't mind swapping gear if I were on PC and had a mod to handle it, but gear swapping on console isn't worth it (and the hassle of swapping gear is also one of the main reasons I don't PvP more than I do).

Calm_Fury

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

As a healer, I'd like to see one shot mechanics go away. Very frustrating.

As far as spell power and magicka scaling both heals and damage, that is what makes my healer enjoyable. She has strong heals and can do enough damage to comfortably solo quest content. Be careful making healers choose between damage and heals. As much as I love healing, I'd retire from healing and become a dd. That is why I don't play my tank - overland/quest content is too tedious to be fun. I find tanks only fun in groups which is no where near half my play time. And I'm not going to run separate sets for differing content; I won't do that on my tank and would not do it on a healer. If it comes to that, again, I'll just throw in the towel and go solo-dps.

We can have one-shot mechanics. Just fewer when players don't do mandatory mechanics. Right now there are way too many things that one shot, even small adds.

As for your second point, well, we can't have both. If you can heal and do damage, DDs will be able to do damage and heal, negating the healer in the first place.

Personally, I never understood that argument to make healers/tanks being able to solo overland content... Just change the build. I literally swap 1 set of gear and 3 skills on my tanks and can pretty much do anything but solo harder world bosses.

We can't have everything.

If everyone can be tanky, heal and do damage all at once with a single build, everyone will just become DDs that are tanky, heal and do damage and we are back to the root of the issue.

Calm_Fury

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

As a healer, I'd like to see one shot mechanics go away. Very frustrating.

As far as spell power and magicka scaling both heals and damage, that is what makes my healer enjoyable. She has strong heals and can do enough damage to comfortably solo quest content. Be careful making healers choose between damage and heals. As much as I love healing, I'd retire from healing and become a dd. That is why I don't play my tank - overland/quest content is too tedious to be fun. I find tanks only fun in groups which is no where near half my play time. And I'm not going to run separate sets for differing content; I won't do that on my tank and would not do it on a healer. If it comes to that, again, I'll just throw in the towel and go solo-dps.

I probably wouldn't mind swapping gear if I were on PC and had a mod to handle it, but gear swapping on console isn't worth it (and the hassle of swapping gear is also one of the main reasons I don't PvP more than I do).

I agree that a full swap for PvP is painful, but one set?

On my tanks, I just swap Sword and Shield for DW, the jewelry and 3 main skills... That is it. Almost same for healer. Just swap the Resto for a Destro and 2 or 3 skills. You can pretty much do any solo content like that except vet Arenas (and some people have even done vMA naked).

AcadianPaladin

I'm not sure there is a solution that will please everyone - or even close. Solo players comprise a large part of the the player base and that is their (and my) priority. If we can also hold our own and contribute to group activities, that is fine but not at the price of hurting solo.

To fully enjoy soloing, I build for survivability, sustain, damage - in that order. So I can go toe-to-toe with a WB, not run out casting juice (be it blue or green), heal myself when necessary and produce a comfortable 15-25k dps. Honestly, that comprises 90% of my play, even for my healer. I guess my point is, even though I don't PvP, I realize their needs need to be accounted for. So it is with group players. And so it is with solo players as well. If I need a group to heal me or keep the boss off me, I'll find another game.

Starlight_Whisper

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm not sure there is a solution that will please everyone - or even close. Solo players comprise a large part of the the player base and that is their (and my) priority. If we can also hold our own and contribute to group activities, that is fine but not at the price of hurting solo.

To fully enjoy soloing, I build for survivability, sustain, damage - in that order. So I can go toe-to-toe with a WB, not run out casting juice (be it blue or green), heal myself when necessary and produce a comfortable 15-25k dps. Honestly, that comprises 90% of my play, even for my healer. I guess my point is, even though I don't PvP, I realize their needs need to be accounted for. So it is with group players. And so it is with solo players as well. If I need a group to heal me or keep the boss off me, I'll find another game.

I think solution is a different resources for healing. Spell power shouldn't be for healing and dps.

I want to build for it and be proud that I can heal better then a dps...who doesn't actually build for it.

It's not perfect but will definitely resolve most problems

Edit:

Sure you can solo but you shouldn't be able to heal better then someone built for healing while you also have high dps. It's just not fair to healers.

Lastly health potions are so underused in the game.

Qbiken

One shot mechanics in this game are easily avoidable by getting used to mechanics in any given fight, so that argument doesn't hold to why healers aren't relevant

If you want healers to feel relevant you should probably adress HP based heals on tanks and not the self healing from offensive skills and stuff like pale order ring.

When a tank has enough healing power to survive by itself due to overperforming selfheals (especially the ones who scales of max HP, which needs to be adressed for both PvE and PvP reasons), healers are there to be pure debuff/buff bots.

AcadianPaladin

There is quite a difference between my dps who heals and my healer who heals. CP, weapon traits, mundus, sets really do make a difference. My 'real' healer templar no longer needs BoL as her basic heals are bursty enough to forgo a dedicated burst heal. Disconnecting spell power from heals would simply drive me out of healing. I guess it's good to hear that others would stick with it. . . but not me.