Armor Weight Mixing for Damage Mitigation

lyx10679

I want to get a definitive answer to this question that most new players will ask and that veteran players will give misinformation no matter the good intentions.

I have read many threads and online guides that strongly and sometimes even vaguely give their opinion on this. Let me set up the criteria so that we answer this question without any bias.

For many new players, solo PvE players, or casual players, we have not advanced in the Undaunted skill line to rank 7 to get the Undaunted Mettle passive. I have read that almost 90% of the threads in this forum will always recommend that everybody try to level up in this skill line to utilize the 5/1/1 armor weight mix. Personally, I have not participated in the Undaunted pledges as fast as it is recommended. I really do not want to rush just to get this passive for the 5/1/1.

That being said, all of my toons are either built for stamina or magicka DPS. Considering that, I have utilized the 5/2 mix (5 being my main light/medium and 2 is heavy). What I am wondering is whether my 2 heavy pieces should follow head/shoulder (because of monster sets) or should I choose based on how much resistance it gives? I have seen chest combined with head/shoulder/legs/feet. Personally, I am running mostly solo PvE with the very occasional group content. I have used Chest/Shoulders and it has worked out well. Since many online guides also recommend head/shoulders because of the monster sets, I wonder if it makes any other difference aside from the fact that each monster set comes in all armor weights and traits.

Wandering_Immigrant

It really depends on the sets you're using. Monster sets are typically used for you off-wieght pieces simply because they're a part of most builds and they come in all three weight classes. Ideally chest and legs would be best for heavy because they offer the biggest boost to amor, waist and I think hands would be best if your off weights were light because they have the least impact on armor. So if your two 5 piece sets are both light or both medium then you monster set is the only choice.

If you have say a medium set and a heavy set you can use jewelry, chest and legs for the heavy. Most people don't bother with that since it's a small difference and not always worth the extra inventory (due to common farming practices). Of course, with the set collection system only farming specific sets in specific pieces is somewhat less of an issue.

If you're using crafted sets you can of course craft in whatever weight you like bypassing any complications.

Firstmep

Depends on what you have available.
Not every set is available in every weight, if you can get heavy chest piece, it's going to give you more mitigation than head or shoulders, but it doesn't make a massive difference in Pve, so head and shoulders are fine.

lyx10679

Based on the responses so far, it seems that nobody fully understood my question. I really don't need to know about the set collection or about the game mechanics of monster sets. I only referenced it since online guides recommend monster set helm/shoulder as the heavy in 5/2 mixing.

I am trying to determine if it makes a difference if I have to choose helm/shoulder because of the monster set OR can I choose chest and my choice of helm/shoulder/leg/feet for the purpose of damage mitigation.

Firstmep wrote: »

Depends on what you have available.
Not every set is available in every weight, if you can get heavy chest piece, it's going to give you more mitigation than head or shoulders, but it doesn't make a massive difference in Pve, so head and shoulders are fine.

@Firstmep So are you saying that I can mix any of the 2 heavy with chest/head/shoulder/leg/feet?

Wandering_Immigrant

You get the most defensive mileage from using heavy in whichever armor slots offer the highest armor rating.

The hierarchy is:
Chest
Legs
Head, shoulder, feet
Hands
Waist

There's no special reason people use their monster sets as their off-wieght pieces, except that monster sets come in multiple weights, making them more flexible.

Nord_Raseri

Fyi head gives same as chest/legs. It is considered a "big" piece.

WrathOfInnos

Chest > Head = Shoulder = Legs = Boots > Gloves > Belt

So yes from a mitigation perspective your best option is heavy chest. The difference is pretty small though, so not a big dealership if sets force you into light chest with heavy or medium on head and shoulders.

You can check armor for any piece here: https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Armor

Stahlor

lyx10679 wrote: »

Based on the responses so far, it seems that nobody fully understood my question.

People did understand your question.
Usually you wear sets only available in the weight of the main resource of your character (stamina or magicka). Most of the magicka sets are only available in light armor and stamina sets only in medium. So if you want to receive the undaunted bonus, you have no choice but to use helmet and shoulder in a different weight - although in theory the chest pice would be better for resistance.

validifyedneb18_ESO

It's usually one of the last things I get done on a build - I'm already mostly geared by the time I'm doing dungeons on a new character - doing pledges. Before that it's just the daily normals.

It's worth mentioning with some sets it's not possible to do chest and legs. I tend to do helmet and shoulder so I never need to worry about set distribution,even if less optimal.

Everyone wants this skill because its 2% tristat even without armor type distribution. Most people go 7 or 5/1/1, 5/2 is not done, 6/1 is rare but done sometimes.

But yes, to answer your question, focus on the highest value slots to be heavy and then medium where possible, it will net you the highest bonus armor. If a stamina build then likewise choose one of the "small"armor slots (not chest,legs,helmet)to downgrade to light armor

validifyedneb18_ESO

If you are a stamina build then heady heavy and shoulders light is Very close to optimal without being restricted by the armor types of the sets you are using.

If a magic build, head heavy is close to optimal again, but medium shoulders is not. But it is often worth going for imo for convenience again. Small amount of potential armor lost.

validifyedneb18_ESO

It's worth mentioning that if your build does include a heavy armor set as they sometimes do (using jewellery and weapons to avoid affecting your armor perks) then it obviously becomes possible to swap slots around and make your chest heavy and helmet medium (or solder light if playing stam build)

Stahlor

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

...5/2 is not done..

It's rarely done too e.g. with Medusa or Elfbane

lyx10679

Stahlor wrote: »

People did understand your question.
Usually you wear sets only available in the weight of the main resource of your character (stamina or magicka). Most of the magicka sets are only available in light armor and stamina sets only in medium. So if you want to receive the undaunted bonus, you have no choice but to use helmet and shoulder in a different weight - although in theory the chest pice would be better for resistance.

If you did read my question, you would understand that I already understand the weight of the main resource of my toons and that I already understand the Undaunted bonus. My question was pertaining to the off-weight pieces and whether it makes a difference to have those pieces be helm/shoulder because of the monster set or to focus on the defensive mileage.

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

You get the most defensive mileage from using heavy in whichever armor slots offer the highest armor rating.

There's no special reason people use their monster sets as their off-wieght pieces, except that monster sets come in multiple weights, making them more flexible.

This is what I was trying to find an answer to. I had the impression that there was a special reason to choose helm/shoulder as off-weight pieces since monster sets come in those pieces. As @Wandering_Immigrant put it simply, monster sets come in multiple weights.

the1andonlyskwex

People keep repeating the same advice about monster sets because it is far more important to wear complete sets and 5 pieces of your primary armor type than to worry about what types are in your other two slots.

Most sets only come in one armor weight, so if you want to wear two complete 5-piece sets and a monster set (usually the optimal setup, unless you're running a mythic item or a unique weapon), the sets you choose usually dictate where your off-weights are going to go. If your 5 piece sets are both light armor, then you're going to be stuck with your heavy/medium pieces in the head and shoulder slots. On the other hand, if one of your 5 piece sets is already an off type for your build (or crafted), you have more flexibility to put your heaviest pieces in the chest and leg slots (which will give slightly more mitigation).

Vevvev

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

5/2 is not done, 6/1 is rare but done sometimes.

So.... all my builds are terrible then? As a Magicka Dragonknight the 6/1 is good when the 6 are light because it helps with sustain, and the 5/2 is nice in PVP when I wanna boost my health and resistances just a little more with 2 pieces of heavy armor. Sure medium would also boost health by 2% as well as stamina and magicka, but I find the extra resistances and increased resources when damaged more valuable than any of the medium armor passives. As you can probably tell I hate medium armor

Stahlor

lyx10679 wrote: »

If you did read my question, you would understand that I already understand the weight of the main resource of my toons and that I already understand the Undaunted bonus. My question was pertaining to the off-weight pieces and whether it makes a difference to have those pieces be helm/shoulder because of the monster set or to focus on the defensive mileage.

Pardon, but I think you don't understand the answers. If you are e.g. a magicka character you usually use two light armor sets. Most of the people use Mother Sorrow + Siroria or Mother Sorrow + False God --> so the only options you have left for different weights are head and shoulders.

Of course you can drop monster sets completely, but you loose damage. You can also run around naked, if you want...

lyx10679

Stahlor wrote: »

Pardon, but I think you don't understand the answers. If you are e.g. a magicka character you usually use two light armor sets. Most of the people use Mother Sorrow + Siroria or Mother Sorrow + False God --> so the only options you have left for different weights are head and shoulders.

Of course you can drop monster sets completely, but you loose damage. You can also run around naked, if you want...

Yes, I admit that I was frustrated by the answers from too many posters who do not explain WHY the two remaining pieces should be head or shoulders. Considering Mother Sorrow, Siroria, and False God all drop the 7 armor pieces as well as jewelry and weapons, a new player or one who is reaching endgame would have randomly slotted 5 pieces from each set to get the set bonuses. Unless they started reading these forums or looking at guides, I don't think they would have intuitively realized they need to plan for the head/shoulder off-weight slots. Some of these players are not able to readily purchase the Monster Sets at the guild trader (if it is being sold or allowed to be sold), they would have to find alternatives to those slots.

Some players would eventually ask themselves, "I am not a new player but have not reached CP 810. I might run a normal group dungeon or trial but my gear is not up to par with these other players in the group. I can't afford these monster sets and I got these overland and craftable pieces in different places (some of these sets might have filled the head/shoulder slots). So should I completely rearrange my armor setup and aim to have head/shoulder be my off-weight slots to get my first Monster Set or should I just go with what I have (assuming the toon has slotted chest and shoulders/helm/legs/feet that are not of the Overland or Craftable set of their main resource) and try to plan according to damage mitigation until then?"

There are players like myself who appreciate some of these answers given and I highly appreciate those posters who do not assume I do not know anything about main resource management of my characters. I definitely appreciate those who do give an explanation as to the benefits of head/shoulder slotting as the two off-weight pieces vs other armor slot combination for damage mitigation.

lyx10679

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Most sets only come in one armor weight, so if you want to wear two complete 5-piece sets and a monster set (usually the optimal setup, unless you're running a mythic item or a unique weapon), the sets you choose usually dictate where your off-weights are going to go. If your 5 piece sets are both light armor, then you're going to be stuck with your heavy/medium pieces in the head and shoulder slots. On the other hand, if one of your 5 piece sets is already an off type for your build (or crafted), you have more flexibility to put your heaviest pieces in the chest and leg slots (which will give slightly more mitigation).

Unless I am mistaken or that ZOS has radically changed their system, all Overland and Craftable sets come with 7 pieces that fill all armor slots as well as all types of jewelry and weapons. The only difference is that Overland sets are fixed in weight to their respective sets. We have to pick and choose our 5 pieces to get the bonuses. So I do not know how a player will only end up with head and shoulders as off-weight leftover if they happen to choose an Overland or Craftable piece in those slots.

So what pure 5-piece set that do not come with head and shoulders are you referring to?

validifyedneb18_ESO

lyx10679 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Most sets only come in one armor weight, so if you want to wear two complete 5-piece sets and a monster set (usually the optimal setup, unless you're running a mythic item or a unique weapon), the sets you choose usually dictate where your off-weights are going to go. If your 5 piece sets are both light armor, then you're going to be stuck with your heavy/medium pieces in the head and shoulder slots. On the other hand, if one of your 5 piece sets is already an off type for your build (or crafted), you have more flexibility to put your heaviest pieces in the chest and leg slots (which will give slightly more mitigation).

Unless I am mistaken or that ZOS has radically changed their system, all Overland and Craftable sets come with 7 pieces of armor including jewelry and weapons. The only difference is that Overland sets are fixed in weight to their respective sets. We have to pick and choose our 5 pieces to get the bonuses. So I do not know how a player will only end up with head and shoulders as off-weight leftover if they happen to choose Overland or Craftable set pieces in those slots.

So what pure 5-piece set that do not come with head and shoulders are you referring to?

You will simply never use head and shoulders for any set except monsters set, because those slots are reserved for monster sets.

Only monster sets and crafted sets come in all weights. Typically crafted sets are not the best in the game, you can think of it as tiers, you might upon hitting cp160 get a full set of purple crafted gear, and from there be able to do pledges and farm dungeon, trial and overland gear you need for a final BIS (best) build.

All sets come with head and soldier pieces, but when thinking about your final build you should pretend they don't exist. Because monster sets are required.

Builds that don't use monster sets are rare, offmeta, and usually not for pve. They are too fringe and complex for now, so ignore them. You need a monster set.

Athan1

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Chest > Head = Shoulder = Legs = Boots > Gloves > Belt

So yes from a mitigation perspective your best option is heavy chest. The difference is pretty small though, so not a big dealership if sets force you into light chest with heavy or medium on head and shoulders.

You can check armor for any piece here: https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Armor

Only this person got the weights right. Go for heavy chest and light belt when possible. For magicka builds always go 5L/2H. Medium armor is more versatile and tanky, so you can afford to go 5/2, 6/1 or even 7M.

lyx10679

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Builds that don't use monster sets are rare, offmeta, and usually not for pve. They are too fringe and complex for now, so ignore them. You need a monster set.

I think this response is as straightforward as can be. I would agree to some extent about the complexities of not having a monster set in a final build. I do appreciate that you added that not having one is "usually not for PvE" since I do more PvE right now.

lyx10679

Athan1 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Chest > Head = Shoulder = Legs = Boots > Gloves > Belt

So yes from a mitigation perspective your best option is heavy chest. The difference is pretty small though, so not a big dealership if sets force you into light chest with heavy or medium on head and shoulders.

You can check armor for any piece here: https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Armor

Only this person got the weights right. Go for heavy chest and light belt when possible. For magicka builds always go 5L/2H. Medium armor is more versatile and tanky, so you can afford to go 5/2, 6/1 or even 7M.

Yes, I am doing that right now until I can afford or acquire a monster set. I do a lot of solo PvE because I like Zone Story and map clearing, etc.

Stahlor

Heavy chest has ~300 more resistance than helmet or shoulder. The only set with a 1 piece other than monster helmets is Trainee with a health one piece bonus. Do you really want to drop even a 1 piece monster bonus for 300 resistance?

Sergykid

the stats gain is insignificant between 5/1/1 to 5/2 or even better 6/1. It is just 2%-4% max stats. If instead you wear nothing different, you get different bonuses for your actual build type of what you need.
for example light armor 5/1/1, you get 0% mag recovery and 0% mag cost reduction, for 4% max mag. You do this only if mag sustain is no issue to you
for example light armor 6/1, you get 4% mag recovery and 2% mag cost reduction, for 2% max mag. Again if you need some sustain you put more light armor.
for example light armor 7/0, you get 8% mag recovery and 4% mag cost reduction. for 0% max mag. This is the best because actually you can put more damage glyphs or sets on you.
Note that i specified those above values as only added to the default 5 pieces (20% mag recovery, 10% cost reduction, 2% max mag). (see https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/evocation and https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/undaunted-mettle ).
You don't care for 2%-4% max health and max stam as a magicka damage dealer (apply everything opposite for stam).
So if you have no sustain problems, you get insignificant damage boost that you could get elsewhere by moving the sustain into the armor pieces.

and for those about the type of armor heavy to be chest legs or whatever, chest is the biggest armor piece, followed by legs head shoulders boots all equal, then gloves and then belts. Just check for yourself here https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor (go to items tab and place heavy pieces everywhere and compare armor added). This is also insignificant armor increase which you don't care about either as a damage dealer.

if for solo content or unoptimized groups, it's better to run 5/1/1 because you will be using all stats, but you can also alter it depending on your sustain and needs, for example i run 5/2 just for the extra armor from 2 pieces heavy, i don't care for cost reduction and sustain from my other resource. If i am in 5 light, i don't care to have 2% stamina cost reduction or 4% stamina recovery, it's totally useless to me, but i actually use some of the heavy armor stats.
.

lyx10679

Sergykid wrote: »

if for solo content or unoptimized groups, it's better to run 5/1/1 because you will be using all stats, but you can also alter it depending on your sustain and needs, for example i run 5/2 just for the extra armor from 2 pieces heavy, i don't care for cost reduction and sustain from my other resource. If i am in 5 light, i don't care to have 2% stamina cost reduction or 4% stamina recovery, it's totally useless to me, but i actually use some of the heavy armor stats.

As you have probably read from the previous responses, there is a focus on the extra 1/1 or 2 heavy to be in the head/shoulder slots for the monster set builds. Do you see any difference if those slots were in some other combination like chest followed by legs/head/shoulders/boots? In other words, should the 5 be slotted a certain way in your opinion?

Sergykid

lyx10679 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

if for solo content or unoptimized groups, it's better to run 5/1/1 because you will be using all stats, but you can also alter it depending on your sustain and needs, for example i run 5/2 just for the extra armor from 2 pieces heavy, i don't care for cost reduction and sustain from my other resource. If i am in 5 light, i don't care to have 2% stamina cost reduction or 4% stamina recovery, it's totally useless to me, but i actually use some of the heavy armor stats.

As you have probably read from the previous responses, there is a focus on the extra 1/1 or 2 heavy to be in the head/shoulder slots for the monster set builds. Do you see any difference if those slots were in some other combination like chest followed by legs/head/shoulders/boots? In other words, should the 5 be slotted a certain way in your opinion?

since chest is the best piece for heavy with highest armor stat, it would be better to run chest if possible, but if u use 2 light sets u can't do that. However the armor gain is insignificant, especially if you play a damage dealer for example in light armor, you care to do damage not have 300 extra armor, that's 0.5% damage reduction (yes, not even 1%).
so since the extra armor is not important to be on chest, you pick head and shoulders because it's the most versatile. You may change your sets over time or depending on the content. Having monster helms in the different weight type will help you alternate between the other sets you wear. And while the 5pc sets are locked to an armor type, monster helms can be held in any weight, so it's just about utility.
but it may be better to specialize in what you are doing. Going full 7 pieces can give u better benefits for your role, but that depends on your sustain.

El_Borracho

Guessing this is for a DPS as you are talking solo PVE

Stamina: Go all 7 medium. Its just better than running a 5/1/1 in my experience.

Magic: 5/1/1 unless you are running Medusa, then 2 heavy Medusa body pieces (Chest, legs) and 5 light including monster set