Is faction teaming normal?

Ryuvain

Genuine question. Seen this on both IC and cyro.

In cyro they generally take turns owning the map. And also team up on the other faction barely fighting each other. I mean literally meeting in a field side by side and teaming up.

This fair game? I'm new to mass pvp so I want to know what I'm in for.

Taleof2Cities

It does happen, yes, @Ryuvain.

Two factions will occasionally team up in an attempt to pull the other faction out of first place in the Cyrodiil campaign.

You'll also see factions team up to de-throne the other factions' emporer.

It's not as noticeable in Imperial City ... where there's no campaign score and players are there to mostly farm Tel Var (instead of objectives).

Ryuvain

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It does happen, yes, @Ryuvain.

Two factions will occasionally team up in an attempt to pull the other faction out of first place in the Cyrodiil campaign.

You'll also see factions team up to de-throne the other factions' emporer.

It's not as noticeable in Imperial City ... where there's no campaign score and players are there to mostly farm Tel Var (instead of objectives).

I would understand teaming up to stop the first place alliance, but being pushed back to gates with no scrolls doesn't count right? Never even remotely close to first. One of the teaming alliances has 1 half of the map while the other has the rest.

That kind of teaming just seems wrong.

Blue_Radium

Ryuvain wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It does happen, yes, @Ryuvain.

Two factions will occasionally team up in an attempt to pull the other faction out of first place in the Cyrodiil campaign.

You'll also see factions team up to de-throne the other factions' emporer.

It's not as noticeable in Imperial City ... where there's no campaign score and players are there to mostly farm Tel Var (instead of objectives).

I would understand teaming up to stop the first place alliance, but being pushed back to gates with no scrolls doesn't count right? Never even remotely close to first. One of the teaming alliances has 1 half of the map while the other has the rest.

That kind of teaming just seems wrong.

A territory split like that almost always means the losing faction is too weak/easy pickings at the moment, so natural pressure from the others keeps steamrolling them - not teaming.

Factions very rarely formally "team" - it happens most often in short bursts to dethrone. The shared goals between factions need to be extremely short-term, and extremely easy spot at a glance. Something like taking scrolls away from the 1st place team, even, is almost always too nuanced/complex to instigate teaming, even though it's a pretty obviously smart move, and isn't that hard to naturally coordinate.

99% of the time the faction that feels teamed up on just had a sudden, momentary dip in ability to fight, for whatever reason, and the other factions start accidentally capitalizing. If it goes on too long blood in the water might be smelt, and both opposing factions scramble to make captures while they can.

Less pre-planned scheming, more rudimentary pattern recognition.

Ryuvain

Blue_Radium wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It does happen, yes, @Ryuvain.

Two factions will occasionally team up in an attempt to pull the other faction out of first place in the Cyrodiil campaign.

You'll also see factions team up to de-throne the other factions' emporer.

It's not as noticeable in Imperial City ... where there's no campaign score and players are there to mostly farm Tel Var (instead of objectives).

I would understand teaming up to stop the first place alliance, but being pushed back to gates with no scrolls doesn't count right? Never even remotely close to first. One of the teaming alliances has 1 half of the map while the other has the rest.

That kind of teaming just seems wrong.

A territory split like that almost always means the losing faction is too weak/easy pickings at the moment, so natural pressure from the others keeps steamrolling them - not teaming.

Factions very rarely formally "team" - it happens most often in short bursts to dethrone. The shared goals between factions need to be extremely short-term, and extremely easy spot at a glance. Something like taking scrolls away from the 1st place team, even, is almost always too nuanced/complex to instigate teaming, even though it's a pretty obviously smart move, and isn't that hard to naturally coordinate.

99% of the time the faction that feels teamed up on just had a sudden, momentary dip in ability to fight, for whatever reason, and the other factions start accidentally capitalizing. If it goes on too long blood in the water might be smelt, and both opposing factions scramble to make captures while they can.

Less pre-planned scheming, more rudimentary pattern recognition.

That all makes sense, but what about when they are literally side by side teaming on the weakest alliance? I mean like 2 big groups not attacking each other at all. You can even see their alliance icons above their heads.

It was worse in IC, they said in chat that they're hanging out with cross faction friends. Spawnkilling in all sections meant nothing was going to happen. Guess there's nothing to do about that except leave?

VaranisArano

Ryuvain wrote: »

Blue_Radium wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It does happen, yes, @Ryuvain.

Two factions will occasionally team up in an attempt to pull the other faction out of first place in the Cyrodiil campaign.

You'll also see factions team up to de-throne the other factions' emporer.

It's not as noticeable in Imperial City ... where there's no campaign score and players are there to mostly farm Tel Var (instead of objectives).

I would understand teaming up to stop the first place alliance, but being pushed back to gates with no scrolls doesn't count right? Never even remotely close to first. One of the teaming alliances has 1 half of the map while the other has the rest.

That kind of teaming just seems wrong.

A territory split like that almost always means the losing faction is too weak/easy pickings at the moment, so natural pressure from the others keeps steamrolling them - not teaming.

Factions very rarely formally "team" - it happens most often in short bursts to dethrone. The shared goals between factions need to be extremely short-term, and extremely easy spot at a glance. Something like taking scrolls away from the 1st place team, even, is almost always too nuanced/complex to instigate teaming, even though it's a pretty obviously smart move, and isn't that hard to naturally coordinate.

99% of the time the faction that feels teamed up on just had a sudden, momentary dip in ability to fight, for whatever reason, and the other factions start accidentally capitalizing. If it goes on too long blood in the water might be smelt, and both opposing factions scramble to make captures while they can.

Less pre-planned scheming, more rudimentary pattern recognition.

That all makes sense, but what about when they are literally side by side teaming on the weakest alliance? I mean like 2 big groups not attacking each other at all. You can even see their alliance icons above their heads.

It was worse in IC, they said in chat that they're hanging out with cross faction friends. Spawnkilling in all sections meant nothing was going to happen. Guess there's nothing to do about that except leave?

It can be normal.

In Cyrodiil, I see this most often at Emperorship dethroned. Say there's an EP emp. AD and DC groups are both going to converge on the last emperor keep, and would be wise to leave each other alone in hopes that one will dethrone the emp instead of fighting each other.

NeillMcAttack

I find it is simply that most players just want to fight weaker players.

edges_endgame

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I find it is simply that most players just want to fight weaker players.

Yeah. And I think there is another reason to do this... Ego. Some players have an incredible amount of that. It's a small community now and factions get pushed to their gates bc of that one guy... As soon as that one guy has the number advantage on his side, he returns the favor bc he can. Rinse and repeat. I see that almost every time I am on Gray Na, PC.

idk

Cyrodiil is not designed to be fair or truly competitive as there is no balancing mechanism between the factions. This is evident outside of weak times or in low pop campaigns as the faction that owns most of the map is the faction with the most or better-organized players.

Even when it has been a thing since the game launched that groups/friends will help others get Emporer. If you play enough you get to know some of the active players in different factions and help each other out with such big goals. This is not AP swapping, but merely assisting in taking keeps and such for a specific goal.

Ryuvain

Just had a cross faction guild in IC hanging out with all of their friends in each alliance and killing every other player not with them. Just wow.

Doesn't matter your alliance they attack everyone they don't know since they're teaming together in all alliances.

So that's ok? Shutting down gameplay for everyone they don't know regardless of alliance?

Runefang

Teaming is rare. A single alliance feeling like they’re getting picked on is common. It’s perception more than reality. PvPers are more deluded than any other group of players in the game.

VaranisArano

Runefang wrote: »

Teaming is rare. A single alliance feeling like they’re getting picked on is common. It’s perception more than reality. PvPers are more deluded than any other group of players in the game.

While I certainly agree that in an AvAvA game, most players wind up feeling like its "A v A+A" by design...

I dunno, I think fake tanks who think their groupmates are united in silent appreciation for their awesome elite speedrunning skills and bad DDs who queue for content they can't handle while expecting groups to cheerfully carry them have us beat in the delusion department.

Faded

edges_endgame wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I find it is simply that most players just want to fight weaker players.

Yeah. And I think there is another reason to do this... Ego. Some players have an incredible amount of that. It's a small community now and factions get pushed to their gates bc of that one guy... As soon as that one guy has the number advantage on his side, he returns the favor bc he can. Rinse and repeat. I see that almost every time I am on Gray Na, PC.

Grudges, spite, and old rivalries explain a lot of things in Cyrodiil.

Delphinia

Faded wrote: »

edges_endgame wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I find it is simply that most players just want to fight weaker players.

Yeah. And I think there is another reason to do this... Ego. Some players have an incredible amount of that. It's a small community now and factions get pushed to their gates bc of that one guy... As soon as that one guy has the number advantage on his side, he returns the favor bc he can. Rinse and repeat. I see that almost every time I am on Gray Na, PC.

Grudges, spite, and old rivalries explain a lot of things in Cyrodiil.

Agreed. Which is really somewhat pathetic. It used to be (at least some used to say) that they wanted "good fights"... a good fight for many now just means easy wins. Your faction can be in last with no way to catch up, no scrolls, etc. and you are the target still. A three faction war might work well if the two lesser factions worked together against the dominating one, but that is almost never the case (at least from what I've seen over the years in my experience). Others will say it's not about the campaign and no one plays to win.. that's fine, if that's not your thing, but then it certainly seems like players on those factions are still trying really hard to come in first with miles between them and whoever is in last place. I think most of us who have played a while, can understand what it feels like to be pushed to your gates over and over.. log in and see your scrolls gone. Now, sometimes it's looked at as a challenge and can result in some fun "good" fights. However, when it is relentless, ongoing, blatant stacking and kicking while your faction is down, then it gets to a point where there is no point.. some people feel demoralized and don't bother anymore.. then, what's left? I guess you eventually will create a two faction war afterall..

Ryuvain

Delphinia wrote: »

Faded wrote: »

edges_endgame wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I find it is simply that most players just want to fight weaker players.

Yeah. And I think there is another reason to do this... Ego. Some players have an incredible amount of that. It's a small community now and factions get pushed to their gates bc of that one guy... As soon as that one guy has the number advantage on his side, he returns the favor bc he can. Rinse and repeat. I see that almost every time I am on Gray Na, PC.

Grudges, spite, and old rivalries explain a lot of things in Cyrodiil.

Agreed. Which is really somewhat pathetic. It used to be (at least some used to say) that they wanted "good fights"... a good fight for many now just means easy wins. Your faction can be in last with no way to catch up, no scrolls, etc. and you are the target still. A three faction war might work well if the two lesser factions worked together against the dominating one, but that is almost never the case (at least from what I've seen over the years in my experience). Others will say it's not about the campaign and no one plays to win.. that's fine, if that's not your thing, but then it certainly seems like players on those factions are still trying really hard to come in first with miles between them and whoever is in last place. I think most of us who have played a while, can understand what it feels like to be pushed to your gates over and over.. log in and see your scrolls gone. Now, sometimes it's looked at as a challenge and can result in some fun "good" fights. However, when it is relentless, ongoing, blatant stacking and kicking while your faction is down, then it gets to a point where there is no point.. some people feel demoralized and don't bother anymore.. then, what's left? I guess you eventually will create a two faction war afterall..

That's exactly what I'm seeing. The faction I'm on normally gets double teamed, until a specific faction gets all scrolls and emperor. Then both factions get pushed back to gates. This is every night so far.

I truly believe everyone switches to that faction to win constantly. Yes, I'm purposefully avoiding names.

Joy_Division

Ryuvain wrote: »

Delphinia wrote: »

Faded wrote: »

edges_endgame wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I find it is simply that most players just want to fight weaker players.

Yeah. And I think there is another reason to do this... Ego. Some players have an incredible amount of that. It's a small community now and factions get pushed to their gates bc of that one guy... As soon as that one guy has the number advantage on his side, he returns the favor bc he can. Rinse and repeat. I see that almost every time I am on Gray Na, PC.

Grudges, spite, and old rivalries explain a lot of things in Cyrodiil.

Agreed. Which is really somewhat pathetic. It used to be (at least some used to say) that they wanted "good fights"... a good fight for many now just means easy wins. Your faction can be in last with no way to catch up, no scrolls, etc. and you are the target still. A three faction war might work well if the two lesser factions worked together against the dominating one, but that is almost never the case (at least from what I've seen over the years in my experience). Others will say it's not about the campaign and no one plays to win.. that's fine, if that's not your thing, but then it certainly seems like players on those factions are still trying really hard to come in first with miles between them and whoever is in last place. I think most of us who have played a while, can understand what it feels like to be pushed to your gates over and over.. log in and see your scrolls gone. Now, sometimes it's looked at as a challenge and can result in some fun "good" fights. However, when it is relentless, ongoing, blatant stacking and kicking while your faction is down, then it gets to a point where there is no point.. some people feel demoralized and don't bother anymore.. then, what's left? I guess you eventually will create a two faction war afterall..

That's exactly what I'm seeing. The faction I'm on normally gets double teamed, until a specific faction gets all scrolls and emperor. Then both factions get pushed back to gates. This is every night so far.

I truly believe everyone switches to that faction to win constantly. Yes, I'm purposefully avoiding names.

I've never heard anyone say, "the faction I'm on normally does the double teaming," which mathematically should be the case 2/3 of the time.

heng14rwb17_ESO

WAR IS A DIRTY GAME !
ALL TACTIC ARE ALLOWED !

Tigor

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

WAR IS A DIRTY GAME !
ALL TACTIC ARE ALLOWED !

Then I hope you are not my neighbour.

Theignson

There is an odd number of factions. So if faction A is fighting faction B, by definition whatever side faction C attacks will be facing a 2 vs. 1.

Also if faction A is poplocked and faction B has 2 bars, faction C tends attack the weakest team (B)for easy points. Very Darwinian.

Of course if faction A did not run like one huge zerg-blob, but split into 2 forces, then A1 could attack B and A2 could attack C. If then each faction did this, then it would be 3 vs. 3, ie even.

Sadly, however, at least in PC NA Greyhost , one faction (currently DC) often seems to be the Zerg-blob that runs as a huge Tsunami of spam. No real solution.

You could make an even number of factions but then the complaining would be even worse because you would see 3 vs. 1 , etc.

Ryuvain

Cyrodiil really needs a fix when the same faction gets emperor every day. Sigh.

Try to attack any place and suddenly 20 show up to defend.