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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
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PvP's Biggest Problem (its not procs)
Stamicka
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The biggest problem with ESO PvP is that there is basically no PvP left. Allow me to explain. There are 4 activities for PvPers to take part in: Cyrodiil, Imperial City, Battlegrounds, and Dueling. Unfortunately for the majority of the day, there is very little PvP to be had. Because of my real life schedule, I work some days, and have other entire days to myself. This has allowed me to see a problem that has been getting worse over the years: there is nothing for PvP mains to do during the majority of the day. Now let me clarify something, by PvP I mean Player vs Player in a literal way. When I PvP I want to run into people and fight/kill them. I am not interested in sieging/ taking keeps without players in them, or playing the map solely for my alliance. When I PvP, I play for the combat with other players. Now that that is out of the way, I will explain why this does not happen anymore.
Cyrodiil
I will start off by talking about Cyrodiil. There is one alliance locked main campaign (Grey Host), Blackreach, and No-CP. Right off the bat the alliance locking presents a problem. During the earlier hours of the day, Grey Host is the only PvP campaign with a population. I am someone who likes to play multiple characters, but unfortunately they are not on the same alliance. The faction lock completely stops me from playing what I want to play in the only place that I will find PvP. On top of that, I often have friends that have alliance locked to a different alliance which makes us completely unable to play in a populated Cyrodiil during certain hours.
The next problem with Cyrodiil has to do with the campaign populations. If you want constant PvP as I described earlier, the campaign needs to be somewhat populated. There's a problem though, if Cyrodiil has too much population (2-3 bars for every alliance) the game will become too laggy. This means that there is only a limited amount of time during the day when Gray Host is playable. Because I play for the fast paced combat with other players, the lag causes me to leave the populated campaign. If I want to continue playing in Cyrodiil, I have 2 campaign choices left, Blackreach and No CP. Both of these campaigns are completely dead for the majority of the day. You will find yourself riding on your mount for the majority of the time. During prime time, these campaigns will get a sharp population increase to the point of becoming as unplayable as Gray host. Once again, there is only a small window of time in these campaigns where there will be constant playable PvP.
Lastly, the amount of players that you can encounter and fight with in Cyrodiil is very small. This relates to the previous campaign population issue that I described. When the game was first released, Cyrodiil was built for 600v600v600 combat. As time has went on this number has definitely decreased, although how low is unknown. Whatever the number may be, a large portion of your time in Cyrodiil is spent mount riding because the map is too large for the current population cap. This happens even when there is 2-3 bars of population. The next problem has to do with players. Even when Cyrodiil becomes populated, players will all converge near the same spot on the map. Now if all the stars align, and you are able to find players to fight in Cyrodiil, chances are that they want nothing to do with you. The majority of players will either use rapids to get as far away from you as possible, or will build a tank build that cannot be easily killed but also that cannot do damage. These players likely just want to find a keep to take.
Ironically, all of these things combined make Cyrodiil a place with very little players fighting other players (except in very large scale concentrated spots). You either ride your mount and find no fights, lag and find some fights, or watch people run away from you.
Imperial City
Since Cyrodiil is not a good place to find PvP, the next logical option is the Imperial City. For a long time, Imperial City was somewhat of a solution to my problem. The relatively small size of Imperial City allowed for constant fights with other players, the lag is minimal to non-existant, and there are less players that simply want nothing to do with you. Unfortunately, Imperial City has had very little population lately and it's been difficult to find action. During the majority of the day Imperial City is empty, and you will run into the same few players every time. I do not know what caused the sudden lack of IC population, but it is no longer fun.
Battlegrounds
Battlegrounds allow me to engage in combat with other players, but they have 2 major problems. The biggest problem with BGs is that I will spend the majority of my time doing nothing but waiting for a queue. The queue often takes over 10 minutes which means that I spend most of the time not engaging in any PvP. This problem gets worse during certain hours of the day. The next problem is that 2 out of the 5 game modes are about running to and capturing the objective rather than fighting others, which of course results in less PvP. So I'll wait a long time not engaging in any PvP only to be put into a gamemode that is not very PvP intensive.
Dueling
The last activity that I have available to me is dueling. Dueling, like other PvP activities is not active during all times of the day. Duels allow for constant combat with other players if there are other players around. Unfortunately with the current balance of the game, many fights will go on for a long time or I will encounter builds that are simply not fun to fight.
In conclusion, if you are someone like me who enjoys the combat system and fighting/killing other players, then ESO is becoming unsuited for you. There are very few opportunities to fight against other players for the majority of the day and during prime time you will most likely encounter lag. Of course PvP has a long list of problems, but rarely being able to fight other players at all is the biggest. I hope to see a remedy to this problem in the future.
Cyrodiil
I will start off by talking about Cyrodiil. There is one alliance locked main campaign (Grey Host), Blackreach, and No-CP. Right off the bat the alliance locking presents a problem. During the earlier hours of the day, Grey Host is the only PvP campaign with a population. I am someone who likes to play multiple characters, but unfortunately they are not on the same alliance. The faction lock completely stops me from playing what I want to play in the only place that I will find PvP. On top of that, I often have friends that have alliance locked to a different alliance which makes us completely unable to play in a populated Cyrodiil during certain hours.
The next problem with Cyrodiil has to do with the campaign populations. If you want constant PvP as I described earlier, the campaign needs to be somewhat populated. There's a problem though, if Cyrodiil has too much population (2-3 bars for every alliance) the game will become too laggy. This means that there is only a limited amount of time during the day when Gray Host is playable. Because I play for the fast paced combat with other players, the lag causes me to leave the populated campaign. If I want to continue playing in Cyrodiil, I have 2 campaign choices left, Blackreach and No CP. Both of these campaigns are completely dead for the majority of the day. You will find yourself riding on your mount for the majority of the time. During prime time, these campaigns will get a sharp population increase to the point of becoming as unplayable as Gray host. Once again, there is only a small window of time in these campaigns where there will be constant playable PvP.
Lastly, the amount of players that you can encounter and fight with in Cyrodiil is very small. This relates to the previous campaign population issue that I described. When the game was first released, Cyrodiil was built for 600v600v600 combat. As time has went on this number has definitely decreased, although how low is unknown. Whatever the number may be, a large portion of your time in Cyrodiil is spent mount riding because the map is too large for the current population cap. This happens even when there is 2-3 bars of population. The next problem has to do with players. Even when Cyrodiil becomes populated, players will all converge near the same spot on the map. Now if all the stars align, and you are able to find players to fight in Cyrodiil, chances are that they want nothing to do with you. The majority of players will either use rapids to get as far away from you as possible, or will build a tank build that cannot be easily killed but also that cannot do damage. These players likely just want to find a keep to take.
Ironically, all of these things combined make Cyrodiil a place with very little players fighting other players (except in very large scale concentrated spots). You either ride your mount and find no fights, lag and find some fights, or watch people run away from you.
Imperial City
Since Cyrodiil is not a good place to find PvP, the next logical option is the Imperial City. For a long time, Imperial City was somewhat of a solution to my problem. The relatively small size of Imperial City allowed for constant fights with other players, the lag is minimal to non-existant, and there are less players that simply want nothing to do with you. Unfortunately, Imperial City has had very little population lately and it's been difficult to find action. During the majority of the day Imperial City is empty, and you will run into the same few players every time. I do not know what caused the sudden lack of IC population, but it is no longer fun.
Battlegrounds
Battlegrounds allow me to engage in combat with other players, but they have 2 major problems. The biggest problem with BGs is that I will spend the majority of my time doing nothing but waiting for a queue. The queue often takes over 10 minutes which means that I spend most of the time not engaging in any PvP. This problem gets worse during certain hours of the day. The next problem is that 2 out of the 5 game modes are about running to and capturing the objective rather than fighting others, which of course results in less PvP. So I'll wait a long time not engaging in any PvP only to be put into a gamemode that is not very PvP intensive.
Dueling
The last activity that I have available to me is dueling. Dueling, like other PvP activities is not active during all times of the day. Duels allow for constant combat with other players if there are other players around. Unfortunately with the current balance of the game, many fights will go on for a long time or I will encounter builds that are simply not fun to fight.
In conclusion, if you are someone like me who enjoys the combat system and fighting/killing other players, then ESO is becoming unsuited for you. There are very few opportunities to fight against other players for the majority of the day and during prime time you will most likely encounter lag. Of course PvP has a long list of problems, but rarely being able to fight other players at all is the biggest. I hope to see a remedy to this problem in the future.
PC NA and Xbox NA
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caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Low population is indeed a problem.
But hey, who wants to look at a slideshow the whole evening? I think the main reason why grey host has no population anymore.
Faction lock should go, but performance is still the biggest culprit to moments of low population.
Btw, where did you find 2/5 deathmatch? Think it has been 2% for me since Markarth.4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can confirm that I'm one of those Cyrodiil players who rides away from random players because I'm looking ahead to the bigger battle going on at a keep. That's a lot more fun for me and I make more AP than by dueling a random player. (No offense to the OP, but I call these players "Schroedinger's Duelist." Until i get off my mount, I have no way of knowing if you want a fun, straight up duel or if I'm going to spend the next few minutes dueling a tank or chasing a LOS-runner who'll leave me stuck in combat for ages when I realize playing their little game is pointless and I'd best get back to what I was doing before I lose the chance at the keep fight. Its easier to just ride past you.)
I mean, Cyrodiil is an AvAvA zone. It supports 1v1 duels in a field if that's what you like, but that's not really what it's designed for. The zone produces large scale and small scale fights around important objectives and, by design, that's where most of the action is at.
IMO, this isn't a problem...but then I'm the player heading off to a fun fight at a keep, not the one waiting in a field hoping someone will duel me.
That being said, if you want to make Cyrodiil populated so you can encounter more players, then your number one problem to be addressed is performance.Edited by VaranisArano on December 28, 2020 2:49AM15 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Can confirm that I'm one of those Cyrodiil players who rides away from random players because I'm looking ahead to the bigger battle going on at a keep. That's a lot more fun for me and I make more AP than by dueling a random player. (No offense to the OP, but I call these players "Schroedinger's Duelist." Until i get off my mount, I have no way of knowing if you want a fun, straight up duel or if I'm going to spend the next few minutes dueling a tank or chasing a LOS-runner who'll leave me stuck in combat for ages when I realize playing their little game is pointless and I'd best get back to what I was doing before I lose the chance at the keep fight. Its easier to just ride past you.)
I mean, Cyrodiil is an AvAvA zone. It supports 1v1 duels in a field if that's what you like, but that's not really what it's designed for. The zone produces large scale and small scale fights around important objectives and, by design, that's where most of the action is at.
IMO, this isn't a problem...but then I'm the player heading off to a fun fight at a keep, not the one waiting in a field hoping someone will duel me.
That being said, if you want to make Cyrodiil populated so you can encounter more players, then your number one problem to be addressed is performance.
Well, if I go to Cyrodiil I am generally not looking specifically for duels, but combat in general. People will run away or will be afraid to engage me even if they completely outnumber me or my group.
As to your comment about performance, I agree that it has driven many players away, but performance has been bad since I can remember. The developers do nothing for PvPers, and they have never even tried to adjust Cyrodiil for the current state of the population. Performance is pretty good in most of the non-Cyrodiil areas like Imperial City and BGs, yet the problem persists. If Zenimax would do something for the PvPers like adding a free for all, no alliance zone, then that would solve the problem. This way, anyone you encounter that is not in your group would be an enemy, and there would be no other reason to be there except for the PvP. The problem with the PvP zones now is that there are other reasons to be there outside of fighting others (sieging in the case of Cyrodiil, PVE/questing in the case of Imperial City, and Domination Modes in BGs).Edited by Stamicka on December 28, 2020 3:09AMPC NA and Xbox NA3 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am still waiting for an RvR (RvRvR) game that does it well. So far Warhammer Online was the best imo, but not good enough to keep it going.
The best PVP I have had in an MMORPG is WoW battlegrounds, although I prefer the 40v40 vs the 10v10, 15v15 or 25v25.2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There is nothing about PVP in this game that is good. Cyro, IC, BGs, nothing. Its not balanced or well thought out. You are never matched equally so its enjoyable for anyone but narcissistic power tripping neckbeards. Cyro is a zergfest horse simulator. IC is either empty or dominated by a few groups that just slaughter anyone trying to do anything. IC is terrible for solo or a duo for absolutely any type of combat.
I have been doing BGS but they have gotten much worse since they did the solo queue. I dont know if these people are cheating or what but i am fighting people who get 30-50 kills a BG and it is a single person. They are invincible. Im using abilities and ultimate combinations that take mere mortals down 50-75%. Might get 5% on these demigods.
What is even worse is that they kill me in mere seconds with no ability on my part to recover or move. I break free once, get off another ability and i suddenly have low stam, mag, and health warning followed by death 2 seconds later. In 5-10 seconds they have drained me from full resources to nothing, completely soaked all my damage without even breaking a sweat and managed to keep me incapped and kill me. And they do it to everyone. They tank 3-4-6 of us and kill all of us. what kind of BS is that?
Ive been gone a few months and just got back a couple weeks ago. I use to get BG queues at my normal time in 30-120 sec. Now i have to wait 5-10 minutes in that time slot. I see why. I havent placed in the 1st or 2nd group in 8 BGs and i usually place in those a large majority of the time.
Whatever they did to PVP to make these super players that can tank groups of the average player murdered PVP. I use to at least enjoy BGs some but ive died more in the last 8 BGs than i did in the last 80 i played before i took a break.
Guess im sticking to PVE until they fix this garbage.Edited by Anotherone773 on December 28, 2020 6:08AM1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am still waiting for an RvR (RvRvR) game that does it well. So far Warhammer Online was the best imo, but not good enough to keep it going.
The best PVP I have had in an MMORPG is WoW battlegrounds, although I prefer the 40v40 vs the 10v10, 15v15 or 25v25.
I dislike a lot about WoW including their pvp gear nonsense. But their battlegrounds designs were a lot more fun. It is the only thing i truly miss about that game.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »There is nothing about PVP in this game that is good. Cyro, IC, BGs, nothing. Its not balanced or well thought out. You are never matched equally so its enjoyable for anyone but narcissistic power tripping neckbeards. Cyro is a zergfest horse simulator. IC is either empty or dominated by a few groups that just slaughter anyone trying to do anything. IC is terrible for solo or a duo for absolutely any type of combat.
I have been doing BGS but they have gotten much worse since they did the solo queue. I dont know if these people are cheating or what but i am fighting people who get 30-50 kills a BG and it is a single person. They are invincible. Im using abilities and ultimate combinations that take mere mortals down 50-75%. Might get 5% on these demigods.
What is even worse is that they kill me in mere seconds with no ability on my part to recover or move. I break free once, get off another ability and i suddenly have low stam, mag, and health warning followed by death 2 seconds later. In 5-10 seconds they have drained me from full resources to nothing, completely soaked all my damage without even breaking a sweat and managed to keep me incapped and kill me. And they do it to everyone. They tank 3-4-6 of us and kill all of us. what kind of BS is that?
Ive been gone a few months and just got back a couple weeks ago. I use to get BG queues at my normal time in 30-120 sec. Now i have to wait 5-10 minutes in that time slot. I see why. I havent placed in the 1st or 2nd group in 8 BGs and i usually place in those a large majority of the time.
Whatever they did to PVP to make these super players that can tank groups of the average player murdered PVP. I use to at least enjoy BGs some but ive died more in the last 8 BGs than i did in the last 80 i played before i took a break.
Guess im sticking to PVE until they fix this garbage.
Frankly, mowing down new/less skilled players has lost its charm for me years ago.
If the games balance wasn't so atrocious and we didn't have all these performances issues, I'd probably enjoy pre-made bgs.0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »There is nothing about PVP in this game that is good. Cyro, IC, BGs, nothing. Its not balanced or well thought out. You are never matched equally so its enjoyable for anyone but narcissistic power tripping neckbeards. Cyro is a zergfest horse simulator. IC is either empty or dominated by a few groups that just slaughter anyone trying to do anything. IC is terrible for solo or a duo for absolutely any type of combat.
I have been doing BGS but they have gotten much worse since they did the solo queue. I dont know if these people are cheating or what but i am fighting people who get 30-50 kills a BG and it is a single person. They are invincible. Im using abilities and ultimate combinations that take mere mortals down 50-75%. Might get 5% on these demigods.
What is even worse is that they kill me in mere seconds with no ability on my part to recover or move. I break free once, get off another ability and i suddenly have low stam, mag, and health warning followed by death 2 seconds later. In 5-10 seconds they have drained me from full resources to nothing, completely soaked all my damage without even breaking a sweat and managed to keep me incapped and kill me. And they do it to everyone. They tank 3-4-6 of us and kill all of us. what kind of BS is that?
Ive been gone a few months and just got back a couple weeks ago. I use to get BG queues at my normal time in 30-120 sec. Now i have to wait 5-10 minutes in that time slot. I see why. I havent placed in the 1st or 2nd group in 8 BGs and i usually place in those a large majority of the time.
Whatever they did to PVP to make these super players that can tank groups of the average player murdered PVP. I use to at least enjoy BGs some but ive died more in the last 8 BGs than i did in the last 80 i played before i took a break.
Guess im sticking to PVE until they fix this garbage.
Frankly, mowing down new/less skilled players has lost its charm for me years ago.
If the games balance wasn't so atrocious and we didn't have all these performances issues, I'd probably enjoy pre-made bgs.
I don't have performance issues in BGs or Cyro really.I would understand if i was less skilled but i use to be good at PVP in ESO. Its not like i am a nooblet that doesnt know anything or have proper gear. Ive been max CP for a year, gold impen set gear, purple food, crafted pots and poisons, etc.
I use to get 5-20 kills and 5-30 assists in BGs with less than 5 deaths...usually 1-3 in most BGs. I could at least hold my own for a bit providing a challenge against most builds if not winning. Usually took 2-3 people to take me down quickly. The team results where more even as well with people on all 3 teams getting multiple kills and assists.
But now i don't even hurt these people. I feel like i am fighting in a paper sack with a wood sword. They are doing 4-10k a hit while also being impervious to my hits. Even when 2 or 3 of us attack them it barely moves their health. I have even had a trial geared healer healing me and it only added a few more seconds to my life.
I don't know if these people found an exploit or what, but there is something severely wrong. I thought i was just me but if you look at the BG results with them. You can see their insane amount of kills and assists while everyone else looks like complete noobs on the board. Everyone else has went down in kills while they have went way up. Even their own teams barely get any kills or assists.
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