The Pale Order Ring in collectivities

DoomGrunt624

Hello.
A lot of players are using this mythic object, the Pale Order Ring, in Dungeon or in Trial. It's very annoying as healer, specially in Veteran. Let me show you what happen most of time.

Mate : Ring's bringer under 50% HP
Me : Reactivity = Healing
Mate : No Healing affected
Me : Healing harder
Mate : No Healing, than 20% HP
Me : Full Heal
Mate : Fall under 10% then back to 60% HP
Me : Still watching
Mate : Fall under 10% HP
Me : Second hope trying to heal the Mate
Mate : Fall under 5%, back to 16%, 30%, 25%, back to 8%, then 2% HP
Me : Watch the guy messed up
Mate : Died

Of course, somestimes the mate managed to full heal himself very close of the death with success. But the reactivity's healer and somes bonus sets are completly useless and dispensable.
Even in Cyrodiil, when you're using mass healing but 50% of the zerg doest get life restored or purified because they want to secure their own HP by self-satisfaction.

This ring is good, but please use it in Solo, not in a collectivity. It kill the very essence of the cohesion (no trust) and the cooperation.

Thanks for reading me.

Xebov

I play alot of dungeons and so far i didnt notice a single person using it.

Liukke

I don't see the point of addressing the Ring of Pale order in particular.
I've seen lots of people dying in dungeons and trials just by having bad equipment.

I've personally done trials with it when not having a healer (of course, normal ones) and I can survive forever, because all my build is solid.
So yep, if you're a healer and other dudes have the ring it's their problem, just like having a super duper dps set which drains your resources like crazy and you die out of being stupid

It's not your fault, it's not ring's fault, it's just people with bad builds.
It happens, nobody is bad...sometimes people just forget that the pale order prevents healing from other players, just like having 7 people all casting the same group buff which is useless...it's bad equipment, not bad ring

And by the way, on a side note, PUGs always ignore trust and cohesion...I can solo normal and some veteran dungeons so I always join pugs quite casually and if I see that the healing is not enough I happily slot the ring.
Don't be concerned if lots of geniuses wear it, that's not your target. Always look for creating a trustworthy group, look for good guilds, a healer is ALWAYS needed, don't make the mistake of thinking you are disposable
In PUGs yes, everybody is disposable, but that's not the endgame everyone's looking for

Chyro

I don't think its so much about blame than about taking away the purpose of another player's role.

Healers play as healers cause they want to heal people, to keep them alive in group content. Using that ring takes this away from them and leaves them to helplessly watch on as people die, while they know they could have saved the person.


Imagine the outrage if healers had a ring that lets them deal extra damage to their target, but made other players unable to deal any damage to the same target.

While being a silly example, I think this is pretty accurate in causing the same feeling of frustration in a DPS as the pale ring does in a healer. Imagine a mob being unable to take damage from you in a dungeon, because another player decided they wanted to do extra damage to it at the cost of teamplay.

Merlin13KAGL

It's effectively no different than someone that stays out of your healing range. If they decide they want to stay alive, they either change gear, or do enough damage that healing is not required.

In any case, their death is on them, and them alone.

Liukke

Chyro wrote: »

I don't think its so much about blame than about taking away the purpose of another player's role.

Healers play as healers cause they want to heal people, to keep them alive in group content. Using that ring takes this away from them and leaves them to helplessly watch on as people die, while they know they could have saved the person.


Imagine the outrage if healers had a ring that lets them deal extra damage to their target, but made other players unable to deal any damage to the same target.

While being a silly example, I think this is pretty accurate in causing the same feeling of frustration in a DPS as the pale ring does in a healer. Imagine a mob being unable to take damage from you in a dungeon, because another player decided they wanted to do extra damage to it at the cost of teamplay.

That's true but as I said, PUGs are PUGs and they are casual within their nature.
I think we shouldn't expect "role respect" from PUGs, and as I said, I can solo dungeons quite easily so having a healer or not makes no difference at all for me.

Pointing it to the single item is wrong in my opinion...what if I take out the pale order?
Will I be more respectful of you in a PUG?
I don't think so, you are simply looking at the wrong side of the problem...if a player dies because he's slotting the pale order and can't sustain then it's a player issue.
Having a wrong build happens and affects everybody, always. Think how many times players don't activate synergies...I always do it in PUGs and man, that changes the dps and sustain quite substantially.
I've seen many tanks standing next to a shard, never taking that synergy and maybe still dying out of bad gameplay (which is totally normal, as I said, people have the right to make mistakes) and in a way you could see that as being disrespectful to the healer (most likely) that threw it, hoping somebody would use it for good.

So yep, it's not a ring problem at all, it's just bad PUG behaviour, or simply non efficient behaviour.
The solution is rather simple, just build your own group, it doesn't take that long, there's lots of guilds out there just thriving with happy people that listen to suggestions and give back even more of them.

On a sidenote:
I never fake roles in PUGs, always wear proper equipment and I'm super happy when healers are around
I'm not saying that PUG means freedom of roles and "who cares" but that happens nonetheless.

Never judge a game by it's random groups

simple_specops

Problem is not with the ring is with the people using it, I got it the first day and reconstructed 18, one for each character. Cant say a bad thing about it, got me 3 flawless conqueror and got me breezing through the new arena. I'd never use it if a healer was there, if someone is using it and blaming the healer , well thank god we don't need to vote kick in trials.

Lintashi

As a healer, yes, its annoying when used in dungeons. It is one thing, when player can utilize it properly, but it becomes a big issue if they can't. Just yesterday, had one such character in vet Fang Lair. At first it was fine, but I noticed, that he was healing differently than other two members of my group. So I waited for the right moment, when he had like 20% hp left, and smashed orb, circle and 5 combat prayers in his face quickly. He never healed and still died. Thing is, ring only heals when it is damage, so once you need to pause your damage even for a second (interrupt, bash, block, roll) you get easily killed if there is no healer to help, and some dungeons have many such mechanics. I am really upset at how zos treats healers ( no vampirism or werewolf rework for healers, constant nerfs to healing, small amount of interesting sets or mechanics compared to other roles, no solo cyrodiil, overall reducing role to nonessential support) However it is a true blessing for solo play.

Vevvev

Just throw Energy Orbs at them, apply minor lifesteal to targets, and throw damage shields over them. These are the workarounds to the ring and vampires using Blood Frenzy and Blood for Blood.

idk

In a trial, it is easy to prevent someone from using the ring. The raid leader tells them to not use the ring because it keeps resulting in their death. If they continue then they get kicked from the group. Problem solved. If this is a disorganized raid, well, there is the real problem.

WrathOfInnos

I don’t think it’s a problem with the ring, people only use it because it’s mandatory for vampire builds. Vampire is by far the highest DPS in the game because of Blood for Blood and Simmering Frenzy. Both of these skills disable external healing, so there is no downside to wearing Pale Order and it’s necessary to sustain the health-cost of these skills.

IMO there are 2 ways to fix this. Allowing external healing with Blood for Blood and Frenzy would make healers important, and nobody wants to wear the ring over a monster set if they don’t have to. Maybe have something like a 30% healing reduction debuff from Simmering, but 100% is too much and fundamentally changes gameplay and role balance.

The 2nd solution is to improve sustain. Magicka sustain in particular is very bad this patch, with Templar and DK in the worst spot. Whip is not sustainable in a rotation, and sweeps isn’t much better (also buggy with weaving still), so BFB is used as a “free” spammable.

Even improving Arterial Burst would go a long way, 5/6 classes consider it a useless morph (Sorcs use it because BFB cannot proc Crystal Frags). If it was cheaper and did similar damage to BFB then players wouldn’t need to turn off their external healing for a viable vampire build.

Personally I’ve been playing around with the vamp meta and it’s annoying to play, but strong enough to justify using. In random dungeons I’ve been queuing as healer most of the time since nobody cares if the healer doesn’t receive heals from the tank or DD’s. Works pretty well in this role, since my group heals are very strong with an extra 1-2k Spell Damage. Not a solution for everyone though, some people just want to go full DPS with vamp and I understand how this can be frustrating for healers.

Edit: It’s also worth mentioning that vamps cannot easily swap to another build for dungeons. The cost increase to all their skills makes sustain even worse, and creates a situation where BFB is mandatory. Curing and becoming vamp is inconvenient and not something we can reasonably do before each piece of content. IMO stage 1 vamp shouldn’t have a cost increase to skills, then we could use a typical build as needed. Restoring the old vamp passive for 10% Magicka recovery would also be nice.

RodneyRegis

I wear it all the time in 3dd runs, but as soon as I have a healer I take it off for the DPS increase. If you're not healing just tell them to change gear.

NordSwordnBoard

Outside the 12 person group you're with in Cyrodiil, nobody is getting healed by you ring or not.

jaws343

I wear the ring in most 4 man content. The truth is, if you are competent enough as a DPS, healers are wholly unnecessary in most 4 man dungeon fights. The few exceptions are heavy incoming damage fights where the boss has a shield up, and there are only a few of those to worry about.

Every other fight, if the tank is doing their job, having a healer heal you is completely unnecessary if you know what you are doing. And frankly, I'd rather rely on my own healing in the fight, let the tank and other DPS do their jobs, and complete the dungeon than please the healer overhealing and contributing little to the fight. In these situations, as a healer, spit out synergies for the DPS to top off resources, keep debuffs on the boss, and help the tank stay alive.

Plus, if I end up in a Pug with a bad healer or tank, who keep dying, I know with the ring I can just solo the boss rather than wiping the group, or constantly resing the same person over and over again in the same fight.

Now, I don't run the ring in trials because usually incoming damage is far more consistent than the one shots in 4 man content. Unless I am doing the portals in Cloudrest. But I did accidentally run the ring in Scalecaller the other day because I went to switch my gear and forgot to take off the ring. Run went fine, because the outgoing damage is so great that the incoming healing is more than enough to keep a player alive.

jaws343

Lintashi wrote: »

As a healer, yes, its annoying when used in dungeons. It is one thing, when player can utilize it properly, but it becomes a big issue if they can't. Just yesterday, had one such character in vet Fang Lair. At first it was fine, but I noticed, that he was healing differently than other two members of my group. So I waited for the right moment, when he had like 20% hp left, and smashed orb, circle and 5 combat prayers in his face quickly. He never healed and still died. Thing is, ring only heals when it is damage, so once you need to pause your damage even for a second (interrupt, bash, block, roll) you get easily killed if there is no healer to help, and some dungeons have many such mechanics. I am really upset at how zos treats healers ( no vampirism or werewolf rework for healers, constant nerfs to healing, small amount of interesting sets or mechanics compared to other roles, no solo cyrodiil, overall reducing role to nonessential support) However it is a true blessing for solo play.

Just want to point out, if a DPS is pausing their damage output to do any sort of interrupt, bash, block, or roll, mechanic, they are not really that efficient at their role. A mag DPS should always have WoE and orbs (or other aoe) out at all times, as well as a dot or some other lingering damage effect on a target. At the very least, always WoE. And stam should have the same, with their AOE and Dot skills. So, as someone else mentioned here, this is a player problem more than it is a problem with the ring. The ring is going to keep you alive if you are doing proper DPS rotations and avoiding avoidable mechanics.

LMFBA

No such thing as a healer in ESO 2020

Role should be support, where that role supports the group with dps boost, regen boosts, boss debuffs etc.

Not stood miles away spammin BoL. (not saying this is you just commenting on some players ive seen).

There is a reason 1 tank 3 dps is meta and preferable in 99% of content. excl trials.