Stuck in Combat , Ball groups, and lag.

WuChiWuGen

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

NeillMcAttack

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

TBois

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

That is true, but most people agree that the onus is on zos ro fix their *** game. Performance in cyrodiil has been an issue since this game launched, and their year of performance fixes didnt do ***.

Stellarvorous

The secret is to open the crown store and actually spend money then the bad performance/lag/skill delay/bugs/crashes all just suddenly disappear


Least that is how it works for role players who just sit in taverns claiming the game works great! lol everyone else in Dungeons BG Ques Group finder Cyrodill IC PC Or Console were all just imaging the horrid performance



Of course the folks experiencing these issues are "Actively" discouraged from speaking on them should you make a thread mentioning it .... "A wild forum mod appears!" and your choice is to run or wait for the thread to get locked/closed


Dont worry though another year long adventure is coming The year of Lagon! ....I mean Dagon ....

thegreat_one

I wonder how messed up this game will be in another 365 days!!!

thegreat_one

Yeah im getting disconnected everywhere I go lol. PVP is not built for an MMO with large scale battles

Jaraal

thegreat_one wrote: »

Yeah im getting disconnected everywhere I go lol. PVP is not built for an MMO with large scale battles

Cyro played much better with a larger population cap in the past. The concept is not the problem. Trying to fix everything that's not actually broken with sketchy code that creates an ever expanding chain of bugs is the problem.

VaranisArano

thegreat_one wrote: »

Yeah im getting disconnected everywhere I go lol. PVP is not built for an MMO with large scale battles

Ironically, the problem is that it was...but it wasn't built for PVPers who cheat.

Cyrodiil used to support really large scale battles that dwarf what we have now by handing a lot of the calculations client-side. And you can guess where this is going. Players figured out how to start messing with the client side of things, and after some very public, very embarrassing displays of just how much cheating was possible in Cyrodiil, ZOS moved a lot of the PVP calculations server-side.

Performance never recovered in large scale combat. Even now, we only get glimpses of decent performance during Midyear Mayhem when ZOS redirects resources to account for the sky-high demand.

People. We're why we can't have nice things.

WuChiWuGen

Very interesting. I just started cyr-pvp late oct this year. So the issues apparently will never be fixed, Sad camper I am. But new things on the horizon, however years away. Man, this is depressing, have my wife and daughter playing the game as well.

Vapirko

Ive been gone from this game for well over a year now, or is it two years? Its just amazing to me to pop back into these forums and see the EXACT same threads being made, same issues, and the fact that people are apparently still regularly playing the PvP sections of this game. Incredible.

Faded

VaranisArano wrote: »

thegreat_one wrote: »

Yeah im getting disconnected everywhere I go lol. PVP is not built for an MMO with large scale battles

Ironically, the problem is that it was...but it wasn't built for PVPers who cheat.

Cyrodiil used to support really large scale battles that dwarf what we have now by handing a lot of the calculations client-side. And you can guess where this is going. Players figured out how to start messing with the client side of things, and after some very public, very embarrassing displays of just how much cheating was possible in Cyrodiil, ZOS moved a lot of the PVP calculations server-side.

Performance never recovered in large scale combat. Even now, we only get glimpses of decent performance during Midyear Mayhem when ZOS redirects resources to account for the sky-high demand.

People. We're why we can't have nice things.

It still blows my mind they were caught out by the cheating and had to upend the game to deal with it. I've never played any online game with strangers where some small percentage wouldn't cheat just because they can. That the devs didn't see it coming and already have measures in place... was, in retrospect, a big flashing indicator of how this game was going to go.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

they need to add an anti cheat system that cant be turned of

GrimTheReaper45

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

I fully believe that groups do impact performance, however I think groups are a core aspect of cyro and they need to find other ways to fix performance that eliminating big groups

GrimTheReaper45

TBois wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

That is true, but most people agree that the onus is on zos ro fix their *** game. Performance in cyrodiil has been an issue since this game launched, and their year of performance fixes didnt do ***.

I would disagree with this as someone who played at both pc and ps4 launch. Cyrodil use to have really good performance even with a higher pop count

NeillMcAttack

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

I fully believe that groups do impact performance, however I think groups are a core aspect of cyro and they need to find other ways to fix performance that eliminating big groups

It's not so much the groups that cause the performance to tank. It's the very nature of PvP combat, combined with a meta that incentivizes the sole use of AOE skills when in large groups. ZOS's approach to addressing this is going to determine which of these areas they are going to tackle. From Rich's comments we are led to believe that they may change every skill in the game that has an AOE component, in other words, every skill that went on cooldown during the tests. And what happens when the PvP community just adapts the use of sets with AOE components to deal AOE damage, when the meta shifts to proc damage? This is a slippery slope IMO. What ZOS needs to do is build from a position of a functioning Cyro, and the only way to do that is to further reduce group size, or at least the amount of players that a spell can effect. They need to change the meta, and they will be going up against the players to do that. It's gonna be a long road before we see any significant changes to performance sadly.

GrimTheReaper45

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

I fully believe that groups do impact performance, however I think groups are a core aspect of cyro and they need to find other ways to fix performance that eliminating big groups

It's not so much the groups that cause the performance to tank. It's the very nature of PvP combat, combined with a meta that incentivizes the sole use of AOE skills when in large groups. ZOS's approach to addressing this is going to determine which of these areas they are going to tackle. From Rich's comments we are led to believe that they may change every skill in the game that has an AOE component, in other words, every skill that went on cooldown during the tests. And what happens when the PvP community just adapts the use of sets with AOE components to deal AOE damage, when the meta shifts to proc damage? This is a slippery slope IMO. What ZOS needs to do is build from a position of a functioning Cyro, and the only way to do that is to further reduce group size, or at least the amount of players that a spell can effect. They need to change the meta, and they will be going up against the players to do that. It's gonna be a long road before we see any significant changes to performance sadly.

I understand what you are saying however I really think reducing the group size is going to do more harm than good. That is an opinion, everyone has their own. Small groups isnt what i come to cyrodil for. Theres no point in fixing it if what we end up having afterwards isnt what players what.

Maybe working on how many players a skill can effect is a sacrifice we can make, I really would not have started with healing though. Reducing players affected by aoe dps seems a lot more reasonable, if people shift to proc set, I honestly wouldnt mind a nerf to those too.

Zos clearly wants us to spread out but I dont think reducing group size is good, not even sure it will be effective. Its just as likely that the former solo's will just get in a group and everyone will zerg to the same keep in groups. I think if they really want players to spread out they need to keep the 24 groups intact and encourage the 24 man groups to spread out instead of having multiple groups stack together.

Just brainstroming here but what are group magnets? scrolls, emp ring? Maybe scrolls and emp should be less important and more focus needs to be on playing the the map. AP is a draw maybe make adjustments to further reduce ap from keeps with a ton of people at them. I believe it currently shares the ap tic amongst everyone at the fight? which does reduce it but maybe if theres over x amount of allied players or groups, half the tic is just lost and the rest is shared amongst the participants.

Point is there are ways to spread us out without negatively impacting group structure and how we play

YandereGirlfriend

There already is an AoE cap for both healing spells and damage abilities - for most abilities in the game it is 6 players.

IMO, 12-person groups feels pretty good and greatly reduces the degree to which any individual ball group can be min-maxed.

I also agree with the above poster in that the incentive structures of Cyrodiil could be tweaked to more evenly spread population across the map. That is an attractive option because it does not imply any nerfs to any existing playstyles, it is instead changing player behavior via carrots rather than sticks.

Of course there is still low-hanging fruit such as switching all PvP to non-CP format (seriously, play pop-locked Gray Host and then pop-locked Ravenwatch and you will notice a difference) and eliminating proc sets (or otherwise greatly streamlining their logic).

akdave0

Define ball group

GrimTheReaper45

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There already is an AoE cap for both healing spells and damage abilities - for most abilities in the game it is 6 players.

IMO, 12-person groups feels pretty good and greatly reduces the degree to which any individual ball group can be min-maxed.

I also agree with the above poster in that the incentive structures of Cyrodiil could be tweaked to more evenly spread population across the map. That is an attractive option because it does not imply any nerfs to any existing playstyles, it is instead changing player behavior via carrots rather than sticks.

Of course there is still low-hanging fruit such as switching all PvP to non-CP format (seriously, play pop-locked Gray Host and then pop-locked Ravenwatch and you will notice a difference) and eliminating proc sets (or otherwise greatly streamlining their logic).

Do they only effect up to 6 players? What I heard, abmittedly a very long time ago from other players, was that crits could only hit up to 6 and after that it just did base damage.

Theres definitely balancing adjustments that need to be made, proc sets I would say go along with that. champion points im on the fence about. Im assuming it would reduce calculations but a lot of the is balanced around having them, I dont think that its a perfect system but I think balance is already pretty bad and straight up cutting out champion points makes it alot worse. Granted they are supposedly reworking it anyway depending on how bad that goes maybe it would be better to just cut it from pvp.

Faded

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There already is an AoE cap for both healing spells and damage abilities - for most abilities in the game it is 6 players.

IMO, 12-person groups feels pretty good and greatly reduces the degree to which any individual ball group can be min-maxed.

I also agree with the above poster in that the incentive structures of Cyrodiil could be tweaked to more evenly spread population across the map. That is an attractive option because it does not imply any nerfs to any existing playstyles, it is instead changing player behavior via carrots rather than sticks.

Of course there is still low-hanging fruit such as switching all PvP to non-CP format (seriously, play pop-locked Gray Host and then pop-locked Ravenwatch and you will notice a difference) and eliminating proc sets (or otherwise greatly streamlining their logic).

Do they only effect up to 6 players?

No.

YandereGirlfriend

Faded wrote: »

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

There already is an AoE cap for both healing spells and damage abilities - for most abilities in the game it is 6 players.

IMO, 12-person groups feels pretty good and greatly reduces the degree to which any individual ball group can be min-maxed.

I also agree with the above poster in that the incentive structures of Cyrodiil could be tweaked to more evenly spread population across the map. That is an attractive option because it does not imply any nerfs to any existing playstyles, it is instead changing player behavior via carrots rather than sticks.

Of course there is still low-hanging fruit such as switching all PvP to non-CP format (seriously, play pop-locked Gray Host and then pop-locked Ravenwatch and you will notice a difference) and eliminating proc sets (or otherwise greatly streamlining their logic).

Do they only effect up to 6 players?

No.

Yeah, that's right for damaging abilities. I was thinking of the old rules before.

But healing skills (and sets) absolutely do have caps (all except for Energy Orb IIRC).

Joy_Division

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

I fully believe that groups do impact performance, however I think groups are a core aspect of cyro and they need to find other ways to fix performance that eliminating big groups

It's not so much the groups that cause the performance to tank. It's the very nature of PvP combat, combined with a meta that incentivizes the sole use of AOE skills when in large groups. ZOS's approach to addressing this is going to determine which of these areas they are going to tackle. From Rich's comments we are led to believe that they may change every skill in the game that has an AOE component, in other words, every skill that went on cooldown during the tests. And what happens when the PvP community just adapts the use of sets with AOE components to deal AOE damage, when the meta shifts to proc damage? This is a slippery slope IMO. What ZOS needs to do is build from a position of a functioning Cyro, and the only way to do that is to further reduce group size, or at least the amount of players that a spell can effect. They need to change the meta, and they will be going up against the players to do that. It's gonna be a long road before we see any significant changes to performance sadly.

I understand what you are saying however I really think reducing the group size is going to do more harm than good. That is an opinion, everyone has their own. Small groups isnt what i come to cyrodil for. Theres no point in fixing it if what we end up having afterwards isnt what players what.

Maybe working on how many players a skill can effect is a sacrifice we can make, I really would not have started with healing though. Reducing players affected by aoe dps seems a lot more reasonable, if people shift to proc set, I honestly wouldnt mind a nerf to those too.

Zos clearly wants us to spread out but I dont think reducing group size is good, not even sure it will be effective. Its just as likely that the former solo's will just get in a group and everyone will zerg to the same keep in groups. I think if they really want players to spread out they need to keep the 24 groups intact and encourage the 24 man groups to spread out instead of having multiple groups stack together.

Just brainstroming here but what are group magnets? scrolls, emp ring? Maybe scrolls and emp should be less important and more focus needs to be on playing the the map. AP is a draw maybe make adjustments to further reduce ap from keeps with a ton of people at them. I believe it currently shares the ap tic amongst everyone at the fight? which does reduce it but maybe if theres over x amount of allied players or groups, half the tic is just lost and the rest is shared amongst the participants.

Point is there are ways to spread us out without negatively impacting group structure and how we play

You're right, but the only way ZOS will get players to spread out is to actually hire a PvP dev and make fundamental changes to the map, the scoring system, and add new features that will attract players to engage in.

JanTanhide

Server performance can not get better until they invest in more powerful servers. Been getting worse as the game goes on with more players and more proc sets.

Soul_Demon

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

I fully believe that groups do impact performance, however I think groups are a core aspect of cyro and they need to find other ways to fix performance that eliminating big groups

Its really not elimination of ball groups that most are pointing at or what the fix is. Fix the bugs- its truly that simple.

geonsocal

like everyone else, spending a lot more time lately "stuck in combat"...even intentionally dying just to blood port and get somewhere quicker (without having to run across half of cyrodiil), when you do port in - still stuck in combat...

I still remember being on some siege (with that overlooking 3rd person view) when the destro ults first were released, and watching all the "fireworks" everywhere - seemed pretty clear at the time performance would never improve from that moment forward...

GrimTheReaper45

Joy_Division wrote: »

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

WuChiWuGen wrote: »

So lov housing here, but in cyr we can not get out of combat, sometimes opening the cash shop fixes it. It's so bad we can die to respawn across the map and still in combat.

Ball groups currently are making the game unplayable, We can even tell when they form up or move into our factions side of the map. It's so laggy most guilds that do play cyr love off or try to play off hours. This is making the large scale side of the game unplayable.

If possible can we get an update on a fix Please!

Quite a lot of people around here don't even believe that groups effect performance!

Might even be barking up the wrong tree.

I fully believe that groups do impact performance, however I think groups are a core aspect of cyro and they need to find other ways to fix performance that eliminating big groups

It's not so much the groups that cause the performance to tank. It's the very nature of PvP combat, combined with a meta that incentivizes the sole use of AOE skills when in large groups. ZOS's approach to addressing this is going to determine which of these areas they are going to tackle. From Rich's comments we are led to believe that they may change every skill in the game that has an AOE component, in other words, every skill that went on cooldown during the tests. And what happens when the PvP community just adapts the use of sets with AOE components to deal AOE damage, when the meta shifts to proc damage? This is a slippery slope IMO. What ZOS needs to do is build from a position of a functioning Cyro, and the only way to do that is to further reduce group size, or at least the amount of players that a spell can effect. They need to change the meta, and they will be going up against the players to do that. It's gonna be a long road before we see any significant changes to performance sadly.

I understand what you are saying however I really think reducing the group size is going to do more harm than good. That is an opinion, everyone has their own. Small groups isnt what i come to cyrodil for. Theres no point in fixing it if what we end up having afterwards isnt what players what.

Maybe working on how many players a skill can effect is a sacrifice we can make, I really would not have started with healing though. Reducing players affected by aoe dps seems a lot more reasonable, if people shift to proc set, I honestly wouldnt mind a nerf to those too.

Zos clearly wants us to spread out but I dont think reducing group size is good, not even sure it will be effective. Its just as likely that the former solo's will just get in a group and everyone will zerg to the same keep in groups. I think if they really want players to spread out they need to keep the 24 groups intact and encourage the 24 man groups to spread out instead of having multiple groups stack together.

Just brainstroming here but what are group magnets? scrolls, emp ring? Maybe scrolls and emp should be less important and more focus needs to be on playing the the map. AP is a draw maybe make adjustments to further reduce ap from keeps with a ton of people at them. I believe it currently shares the ap tic amongst everyone at the fight? which does reduce it but maybe if theres over x amount of allied players or groups, half the tic is just lost and the rest is shared amongst the participants.

Point is there are ways to spread us out without negatively impacting group structure and how we play

You're right, but the only way ZOS will get players to spread out is to actually hire a PvP dev and make fundamental changes to the map, the scoring system, and add new features that will attract players to engage in.

True but they could be doing a few things as of right now to make a difference.

Nerfing emp and scrolls
Removing hammer
Buffing How much keeps count for and keep bonuses
Adjusting how alliance points are distributed, to encourage fewer players at keeps

Jaraal

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

Zos clearly wants us to spread out but I dont think reducing group size is good, not even sure it will be effective.

Yeah I see a lot of failed keep capture attempts now with ZOS' new "skirmish mode."

The problem is fourfold. First, a PUG of 12 people, half of whom don't understand mechanics, don't have siege or repair kits, etc is going to have a hard time capturing keeps in the first place. The ball groups or guild groups will come and wipe them out with ease. Secondly, the actual number of PUGs are fewer because good players know they will likely be wasting their time starting one, and if they do, are much less inclined to invite unknown players for the reasons stated above. And thirdly, since there are now a lot of ungrouped randoms who can no longer heal fighters, these folks are either (a) standing around on keep walls with sieges ready, waiting for the uncoordinated pick up groups to arrive, or (b) they are sniping said groups and splitting them up, which makes any door breach even less likely to succeed. And finally, with the small scale group concept, your forces are splintered and failing on multiple fronts, instead of being able to focus on objectives as an alliance.

Honestly, the best part of Cyro now is when one alliance is down to a single keep, and people are forced to work together to defend it. We had a blast last night setting up a defense in our last scroll temple, and holding off both enemy alliances at the same time. It's sad that what used to be commonplace fun with the 24 man groups is now limited to such extreme situations.