High Elf passives seem a bit underwhelming compared to other races.

StarOfElyon

It seems like it's missing something. Other races get immunity to status effects and additional bonuses such as reduced cost to sprint (which is great in any situation).

Maybe I'm looking down on the Altmer's 5% damage reduction when casting/channeling but it seems underwhelming. It doesn't seem as great as other passives. Do you agree?

If so, what do the Altmer need passive wise to be on par with races like Orc and Dark Elf?

Everest_Lionheart

When you play Altmer and Dunmer they aren’t that far off from one another. What you really gain by choosing to be a Dunmer is the ability to switch over to stam if you don’t like the way the mag version of the class feels when you play without needing a race change. Khajiit can also play either mag or stam, but changes to crit are going to phase them out eventually.

Orc is ahead for stam because of the extra health and speed passives. I know it’s tempting to try to compare Orc to Altmer because they are the top races for mag and stam but keep in mind your Altmer in most cases is playing ranged and dealing with far less mechanics than the Orc’s are dealing with in melee range.

For the most part I stick to Altmer for magicka because I understand how to play it and I’m not so worried about resistance to fire which the Dunmer has and to me is a wasted passive. Maybe if someone is playing a vampire it all balances out. I don’t do vampire and probably never will so maybe someone else can weigh in here.

x48rph

They also get slightly more max magicka, which is amplified by any bonuses and free stamina back (assuming your mag) when using abilities which might be meaningless in PvE but does make a difference in pvp. I don't really see how they are underwhelming compared to any others. At least they didn't get something completely useless like stealth detection....

Juhasow

lol

StarOfElyon

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

When you play Altmer and Dunmer they aren’t that far off from one another. What you really gain by choosing to be a Dunmer is the ability to switch over to stam if you don’t like the way the mag version of the class feels when you play without needing a race change. Khajiit can also play either mag or stam, but changes to crit are going to phase them out eventually.

Orc is ahead for stam because of the extra health and speed passives. I know it’s tempting to try to compare Orc to Altmer because they are the top races for mag and stam but keep in mind your Altmer in most cases is playing ranged and dealing with far less mechanics than the Orc’s are dealing with in melee range.

For the most part I stick to Altmer for magicka because I understand how to play it and I’m not so worried about resistance to fire which the Dunmer has and to me is a wasted passive. Maybe if someone is playing a vampire it all balances out. I don’t do vampire and probably never will so maybe someone else can weigh in here.

I do play an Altmer vampire so yes, passive resistances to fire and burning are definitely great passives that the Dunmer have.

Araneae6537

After Bosmer passives were trashed, I really don’t want those of Altmer or Dunmer touched, even if other races might be stronger. At least they are still mostly lore appropriate and useful.

Doczy

hahahahahahahhahaha

meow . this one is khajit. and my race is lowest s....t.

the only useful race passive hammered by zos / hello malacath no one uses crit

Araneae6537

Doczy wrote: »

hahahahahahahhahaha

meow . this one is khajit. and my race is lowest s....t.

the only useful race passive hammered by zos / hello malacath no one uses crit

Bosmer has a passive that is actually bad to use in PvP and useless in PvE — I never put points in it. I thought the Khajiit passives were decent — and not only for stealing. Khajiit also have bonuses for recovery and since you do have bonuses to crit, why not make the most of that instead of using Malacath?

JobooAGS

Araneae6537 wrote: »

After Bosmer passives were trashed, I really don’t want those of Altmer or Dunmer touched, even if other races might be stronger. At least they are still mostly lore appropriate and useful.

You do realize that bosmer passives are better than redguard passives? Especially with the major and minor endurance changes... In fact redguard is and has been the most fragile race since the changes

RiskyChalice863

High Elf passives are really good for my Magplar in PvP. I either run the Magplar with a Sweeps build or with a heavy attack build. Either way, he gets 5% damage reduction the vast majority of the time when I’m attacking. I run the Magplar as a vampire for Elusive Mist, and the 5% damage reduction applies when in mist form to add even more to my ability to escape damage when on the defensive. Basically, the 5% damage reduction applies a large percent of the time for me, and therefore is a really big bonus.

Meanwhile, I quite like the passive where you basically get stamina from using class abilities. Stamina sustain is really important in PvP no matter what, and particularly in BGs/no-CP (which is what I typically play) it can be really difficult for a magicka character to not sometimes be caught without enough stamina to break free. The extra stamina sustain goes a long way. If you’re constantly fighting and using class abilities it is equivalent to 215 extra stamina recovery.

So, the way I see it, High Elf is clearly the best option for my Magplar. The max magicka and spell damage are great for damage, the 5% damage reduction when channeling is a top-tier defensive passive, and the extra stamina sustain papers over a weakness that magicka builds basically always have (at least in no-CP).

Tommy_The_Gun

"High Elf passives seem a bit underwhelming compared to other races"

Umm... oh.. ok, I guess every one has different opinion... Personally I think that worst races (when it comes to passives) would be Wood Elf or Argonian.

Wood Elf has amazing sneak detection (extremely useful ! ) and rolly-polly Penetration bonus... which means you are kinda forced to use weird and awkward playstyle to utilize full racial potential...

In short you are: Mediocre stam dps, bad tank and bad healer.


Argonian on the other hand has only one useful potion passive, which on paper looks cool, but in practise you almost alwyas waste it as you use it when you are full on other resources - meaning that you get 1/3 or 2/3 at best of its "mathematical" power. If that passive would make Argonians bis for sustain then it could be worth it - but no, they are not bis for sustain...
Aside from that, other Argonian passives are kinda trash.

In short, you are: Ok-ish Tank (but nowhere close to bis), bad dps and bad healer...

MrBrownstone

The most important passives are weapon/spell damage and max stam/mag. Altmer is the best magicka race because of that 258 spell damage, many passives are just flavor

Ratzkifal

Altmer passives do look underwhelming when compared to their stamina counter part, Orc. But every race looks underwhelming when compared to Orcs xD

Now that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with Altmer. Spell Recharge is just a silly passive with little to no impact and no basis in the lore. ZOS explained it, or rather tried and failed to explain it through Alteration magic, because apparently Alteration magic is only a High Elf thing and no other magic user can learn this trick about Alteration magic allowing you to recover from exhaustion more easily when using magic. Bad passive, bad design, bad justification.
The best part about it is the reduction to damage taken while channeling an ability which is actually can be relevant if your build uses one of those.
I would prefer if they changed it to something else that was more fitting.

Also this thread about racial passives wouldn't be complete without me bringing up that Bosmer's Hunter's Eye is completely useless outside of PvP aside from the movement speed after dodgerolling as long as the penetration isn't a permanent effect and they get their stealth back instead of that detection garbage. They have an entire culture around being sneaky and stealthy, yet they have no bonus for that!

Then there is Argonians having less racial passive boni than other races according to ZOS' own math, Argonians being resistant to only disease when in the lore they are clearly resistant to both to the point where this is relevant to the plot of several quests where an Argonian survives a poisoning attempt or a deadly plague. There are exactly two builds that I can think of where Argonians are the best choice and no other race could do a better job and both builds are meme builds that aren't even that good.

Also Redguards and Bosmer have nothing to offer other than sustain, but sustain is plenty in this game in group situations, especially on stamina, so they are far far below the other stamina races (unless you count Nord or Imperial as stamina races despite being tank races).

JobooAGS

People keep on mentioning Bosmer meanwhile its passives are overall better than Redguard’s passives, especially with the new Endurance changes. However I will acknowledge that both are lacking when compared to other stam races. Altmer on the other hand, seems a bit fragile due to the fact that you have to be casting/channeling to get the benefit when compared to dunmer who has resistances to a whole 3rd of a weapon line and a whole class. Though they do have better stam sustain which is welcomed in pvp.

Araneae6537

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Altmer passives do look underwhelming when compared to their stamina counter part, Orc. But every race looks underwhelming when compared to Orcs xD

Now that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with Altmer. Spell Recharge is just a silly passive with little to no impact and no basis in the lore. ZOS explained it, or rather tried and failed to explain it through Alteration magic, because apparently Alteration magic is only a High Elf thing and no other magic user can learn this trick about Alteration magic allowing you to recover from exhaustion more easily when using magic. Bad passive, bad design, bad justification.
The best part about it is the reduction to damage taken while channeling an ability which is actually can be relevant if your build uses one of those.
I would prefer if they changed it to something else that was more fitting.

Also this thread about racial passives wouldn't be complete without me bringing up that Bosmer's Hunter's Eye is completely useless outside of PvP aside from the movement speed after dodgerolling as long as the penetration isn't a permanent effect and they get their stealth back instead of that detection garbage. They have an entire culture around being sneaky and stealthy, yet they have no bonus for that!

Then there is Argonians having less racial passive boni than other races according to ZOS' own math, Argonians being resistant to only disease when in the lore they are clearly resistant to both to the point where this is relevant to the plot of several quests where an Argonian survives a poisoning attempt or a deadly plague. There are exactly two builds that I can think of where Argonians are the best choice and no other race could do a better job and both builds are meme builds that aren't even that good.

Also Redguards and Bosmer have nothing to offer other than sustain, but sustain is plenty in this game in group situations, especially on stamina, so they are far far below the other stamina races (unless you count Nord or Imperial as stamina races despite being tank races).

The Bosmer passive is actually LESS than useful in PvP as it alerts enemies to your presence. It’s the worst designed passive ever and the only racial passive I NEVER take! Poison resistance makes NO sense and directly conflicts with ESO itself and obviously is a passive that should belong to Argonians along with disease resistance.

I’m not familiar with the various human racial passives and can’t comment on those.

Of the races I play, those I’m happiest with the passives for are Altmer, Dunmer and Khajiit.

idk

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

When you play Altmer and Dunmer they aren’t that far off from one another. What you really gain by choosing to be a Dunmer is the ability to switch over to stam if you don’t like the way the mag version of the class feels when you play without needing a race change. Khajiit can also play either mag or stam, but changes to crit are going to phase them out eventually.

Orc is ahead for stam because of the extra health and speed passives. I know it’s tempting to try to compare Orc to Altmer because they are the top races for mag and stam but keep in mind your Altmer in most cases is playing ranged and dealing with far less mechanics than the Orc’s are dealing with in melee range.

For the most part I stick to Altmer for magicka because I understand how to play it and I’m not so worried about resistance to fire which the Dunmer has and to me is a wasted passive. Maybe if someone is playing a vampire it all balances out. I don’t do vampire and probably never will so maybe someone else can weigh in here.

This a very well thought reply. I have not seen a need to respec my high elves or dark elves since Zos reworked the passives. They both so very well.

Ryuvain

Pretty sure Altmer are one of the best for magicka. They aren't bad at all. Orc is just overloaded while other races need help.

*clears Khajiiti throat while glaring at malacath band*

Dracane

I also think the 5% damage reduction while casting is underwhelming. Few things in the game even have cast times anymore. If at least it would linger for like 5 seconds after performing a channel or cast.

Certainly a boring and out of date passive.
Other than that, I think Altmer is alright. Of course, everything pales compared to Orcs.
Spell Recharge is certainly the main problem of Altmer.

I just mentioned the damage reduction, but the restore itself has some flaws too.
Firstly, it can proc while your ressource is 100%, putting it on cooldown and wasting its effectiveness to some extend. I also still think it should restore whichever percentage of ressource is currently the lowest.

When I compare Altmer to Breton, I see little reason to choose Altmer outside of dummy parses.

So my suggestions to improve/fix the race.
-Let Spell Recharge's restore not go on cooldown/do not allow to proc, when the ressource (for example stamina) is still at 100%

-Allow Spell Recharge to linger for a few seconds after using a cast time or channel.

-Would be nice if Spell Recharge targeted the lowest % ressource

Tommy_The_Gun

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Then there is Argonians having less racial passive boni than other races according to ZOS' own math

Pretty much this. Argonians have a passive (Life Mender) that boost healing done by 6%. But the problem with this passive is that it is based on "old" gear healing bonus. When ZOS was making their "standards" - they were balancing racial passives based on gear set bonus. But Like I have said - this passive is based on "old" Healing bonus - that was 2% at the time. This means that Argonian passive is 3x of this gear set bonus.

But the problem is that after racial rebalance took place, ZOS buffed this gear set bonus to 4%, a couple of patches later, but left Argonian racial passive unupdated. I am pretty sure if it was 3x 4% = 12% (which according to ZOS's standards it should be) then Argonians could be viable healers, and even compete with Bretons for "BiS" category.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180424070659/http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Troll+King+Set
(1 items) Adds 2% Healing Done

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Troll+King+Set
(1 items) Adds 4% Healing Done

^ As you can see, (using troll king set as example) it used to have 2%, even after racial rebalance. I don't remember exactly when it was changed, but somewhere like half a year or 1 year after racial rebalance took place.

Starlight_Whisper

Try roll dodging for a racial passive

WrathOfInnos

Yes I agree, Altmer passives are disappointing. I doubt they’ll get a buff, since they are the top damage race for Magicka builds (beating Dunmer by about 0.2%), but they do need something IMO. Both the reduced damage while channeling and the restoring off-resource passives are underwhelming, they feel like a race with only 2 bonuses while others get 3.

From a lore perspective it bugs me how poor Altmer’s Magicka sustain is in ESO, falling behind Breton, Argonian, Imperial, Khajiit, and even Redguard if some weapon skills are being used. Their weakness should be low defense to magic (glass cannon, as represented in previous Elder Scrolls games), not constantly running out of Magicka (which directly contradicts their Magicka recovery racial ability in Skyrim).

Faded

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Try roll dodging for a racial passive

I love that passive. But wood elf anything is definitely an underdog spec. It will look better the next time they take the hammer to sustain.

They should never have made racial passives so important in the first place, but it's traditional™️

Wolf81

They just need to rework spell charge its pretty awful..never underestimate the power of sustain from a Breton!

zvavi

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes I agree, Altmer passives are disappointing. I doubt they’ll get a buff, since they are the top damage race for Magicka builds (beating Dunmer by about 0.2%), but they do need something IMO. Both the reduced damage while channeling and the restoring off-resource passives are underwhelming, they feel like a race with only 2 bonuses while others get 3.

From a lore perspective it bugs me how poor Altmer’s Magicka sustain is in ESO, falling behind Breton, Argonian, Imperial, Khajiit, and even Redguard if some weapon skills are being used. Their weakness should be low defense to magic (glass cannon, as represented in previous Elder Scrolls games), not constantly running out of Magicka (which directly contradicts their Magicka recovery racial ability in Skyrim).

With time Altmers got better at be recovering their magic? Tbh I am very discouraged from running my altmer magsorc in dungeons, I am empty 70% of the times.

Karm1cOne

zvavi wrote: »

With time Altmers got better at be recovering their magic? Tbh I am very discouraged from running my altmer magsorc in dungeons, I am empty 70% of the times.

That's a sorc feature not an altmer. Sorc sustain is godawful.

idk

I do wonder why the title suggests the OP is about the high elf passives (plural) yet only talks about half of one passive. That is not even a passive, it is half of one and ignores the rest.

StarOfElyon

idk wrote: »

I do wonder why the title suggests the OP is about the high elf passives (plural) yet only talks about half of one passive. That is not even a passive, it is half of one and ignores the rest.

It's poorly worded but what I'm trying to say is that overall the passive feel less loaded than some other race's passive. I don't think spell damage and 2k magicka are enough to make them on par with Orc and Dunmer.

The Khajiit should be brought up too. It looks like ZOS tried to balance "stat density" for them but their bonuses are pretty low, in my opinion.

In my opinion, the entire Dominion has inferior passives. It shows every time I look at the Cyrodil map.

Doczy

we need new passives actually

like khajit - %50 less cost for roll dodge and %10 dodge chance against direct damage

orc %25 damage buff to heavy attack(melee) and %10 chance to stun and cripple(melee)

wood elf +10 meters range for ranged attacks and %10 crit chance ranged attacks

argonian - immune to poison and disease - immune poison dots and defile

high elf- more spell damage while you in combat - less damage taken if your magicka more than %70

Dracane

StarOfElyon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do wonder why the title suggests the OP is about the high elf passives (plural) yet only talks about half of one passive. That is not even a passive, it is half of one and ignores the rest.

It's poorly worded but what I'm trying to say is that overall the passive feel less loaded than some other race's passive. I don't think spell damage and 2k magicka are enough to make them on par with Orc and Dunmer.

The Khajiit should be brought up too. It looks like ZOS tried to balance "stat density" for them but their bonuses are pretty low, in my opinion.

In my opinion, the entire Dominion has inferior passives. It shows every time I look at the Cyrodil map.

Khajiit must be a conspiracy. Every stamina nightblade in pvp is a Khajiit. There is a reason for that, because Khajiit is the contrary of bad and has its place and buffing them would be insane.

WrathOfInnos

Dracane wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do wonder why the title suggests the OP is about the high elf passives (plural) yet only talks about half of one passive. That is not even a passive, it is half of one and ignores the rest.

It's poorly worded but what I'm trying to say is that overall the passive feel less loaded than some other race's passive. I don't think spell damage and 2k magicka are enough to make them on par with Orc and Dunmer.

The Khajiit should be brought up too. It looks like ZOS tried to balance "stat density" for them but their bonuses are pretty low, in my opinion.

In my opinion, the entire Dominion has inferior passives. It shows every time I look at the Cyrodil map.

Khajiit must be a conspiracy. Every stamina nightblade in pvp is a Khajiit. There is a reason for that, because Khajiit is the contrary of bad and has its place and buffing them would be insane.

That makes sense in PVP, where sneaking and all 3 resources matter. In PVE Khajiit are definitely underpowered. 825 of health, Magicka and Stamina is far weaker than the 2000 Magicka or 2000 Stamina that most races have. Dunmer is a great example of how splitting resources should be handled, they get 1875 Stamina + 1875 Magicka, which ends up pretty well balanced with 2000 of a single stat because off-stat is so much less useful. The same goes for recovery, Bosmer’s 258 Stam Recovery is much better than Khajiit’s 85 bi-stat recovery and the worthless 100 health recovery. On top of all these shortcomings, Khajiit’s 10% crit damage results in lower DPS than the 258 Weapon/Spell Damage other races receive, even on high-crit builds. This should be at least 12% crit damage.

idk

StarOfElyon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do wonder why the title suggests the OP is about the high elf passives (plural) yet only talks about half of one passive. That is not even a passive, it is half of one and ignores the rest.

It's poorly worded but what I'm trying to say is that overall the passive feel less loaded than some other race's passive. I don't think spell damage and 2k magicka are enough to make them on par with Orc and Dunmer.

The Khajiit should be brought up too. It looks like ZOS tried to balance "stat density" for them but their bonuses are pretty low, in my opinion.

In my opinion, the entire Dominion has inferior passives. It shows every time I look at the Cyrodil map.

I knew what you were trying to say, that the one half of that one passive you find underwhelming. However, the race is a solid choice and has been when one takes in the full view. idk, it is probably one of the best two Magicka race choices unless one wants to go more for sustain.