Remove base crit resist to make light/medium armor no malacath builds more viable

oscarovegren

Im not talking about procsets in this topic. I want to even out the damage you can achive with light/medium armor builds without malacath and heavy armor with malacath. The issue is the base crit resist which makes crit value so weak. If the base crit resist could be removed there would be a better balance between malacath and no malacath builds. This would also make a lot of sets which have crit values less bad in comparison to penetration, recovery, max resources and spell/weapon damage.

Im not calling for a nerf to malacath heavy armor builds but the damage for not using malacath have to increase somewhat and the removal of base crit resist would in my opinion be a good first step for build diversity

Firstmep

Something definetly has to be done, fiddling with the base resist is a way this could be done without messing things up in Pve.

Taleof2Cities

Unfortunately, the higher overall damage output (resulting from Proc Sets and Malacath) is the main issue of this patch, @oscarovegren.

Due to this meta, a lot of theorycrafting and build choices for PvP are pigeon-holed into higher defense and heavy armor.

Taking away the crit resist baseline is going to skew building for defense even further ... which will hurt those light/medium armor users that you're trying to help.

Essentially for most players, that means building for full 7-piece impenetrable or reverting the nerf to the impenetrable trait itself. What fun is there in that?

Bottom Line: Damage is too high and needs to be toned down ... which is reflected in various complaint threads scattered about the forums.

Urzigurumash

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Bottom Line: Damage is too high and needs to be toned down ... which is reflected in various complaint threads scattered about the forums.

Almost everybody on this forum was begging for a diminished TTK for a long time. In lieu of other changes, what do we think about some reversions of nerfs to defensive tools? Troll King, Earthgore, and Lingering Health Pots come to mind. I'm thinking less of holistic changes to address the proc meta, and more just an immediate solution to an immediate problem.

Dracane

People tend to overestimate the significance of Malacath. Not nearly as many people as everyone likes to claim use Malacath.

Many proc sets require you to crit and some classes rely on crit or synergize with crit too much to comfortably use Malacath.
I have switched from Malacath back to crit because most people do not use impenetrable anymore, since it does not protect againt procsets or they use very few pieces.

My average attacks are a bit weaker, which is compensated by me freeing a slot that was occupied by Malacath, so I can use a complete monster piece. But my burstspikes are drastically increased due to the crit.

So really, Malacath has never been as crazy as people make it out to be. Especially since it does not nearly grant 25% damage. In CP, it is roughly 16% and in no CP 20%.

Dracane

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Bottom Line: Damage is too high and needs to be toned down ... which is reflected in various complaint threads scattered about the forums.

Almost everybody on this forum was begging for a diminished TTK for a long time. In lieu of other changes, what do we think about some reversions of nerfs to defensive tools? Troll King, Earthgore, and Lingering Health Pots come to mind. I'm thinking less of holistic changes to address the proc meta, and more just an immediate solution to an immediate problem.

It does not matter. People will never stray away from tankbuilds.
Reduce the TTK, and tanks become even more effective. Reducing the TTK will not suddenly make people build for damage instead. They will just abuse it to become even more unkillable.

People just have to accept that pvp is about killing each other, not surviving each other. Now there is nothing wrong about going tanky if it means giving up all possibility to kill. Which does not work because of proc sets dealing the damage for them. And tanks tend to gang up and just compensate their laughable approach by coming with such numbers, that even small damage becomes a lot.

Proc sets need to get gutted, as well as health stacking. Encourage people to build for damage again and have them deal damage with their abilities like in the old days instead of having 3 proc sets doing it for them. Nothing else is needed.

Urzigurumash

Good points @Dracane, when healing was at its highest it seemed like everyone in CP Cyro was wearing NMA + Balorgh in 5 medium or 5 light, circa 1 year ago. Granted these sets boosted many healing skills as well, which I believe is why Balorgh was given Penetration. This was the only era in this game I personally preferred 5 medium on StamDK.

Waffennacht

Malacath is boss in no CP.

The base crit chance and the crit modifiers are far lower here, making malacath more desirable.

Having a base impen in No CP is even more impactful - essentially lowering base crit further

Possibly your opponent has impen traits, why risk it when malacath is a guarantee against all opponents?

ThePedge

I agree with your goal but not with the approach.

Three things happened over a short time
1. Battle Spirit healing nerf
2. Proc sets buffed
3. Malacath

Speaking from a noCP perspective.
How do I get my healing back, or increase my survivability after healing nerf? A very simple, not complete, solution is Heavy Armour.

How do I get damage in Heavy Armour? Well my crit chance is effectively zero, malacath is only a net positive.

So now I have OK damage, OK survivability. Hang on, they're buffing all proc sets so they do more than any abilities? And they're buffed by Malacath? Say no more.

Proc damage needs nerfing
Malacath needs nerfing and/or only applying to abilities

universal_wrath

Just my op8nion, but I think thqt base crit is a nice touch, however. It should not have been gramted equal and should be armor specific. Heavy armor should get at max half of what they have right now. Medium armor is already have a way to counter damage which is dodging and maybe get 75% of live base crit. For LA maybe 100% or lower and should have their their spell resist passive changed to something more useful like reducing range attacks by x or overall damage reduction by x since this pasaive is inferior to heqvy armor passive which geant both spell and physical resistance.

JayKwellen

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Good points @Dracane, when healing was at its highest it seemed like everyone in CP Cyro was wearing NMA + Balorgh in 5 medium or 5 light, circa 1 year ago. Granted these sets boosted many healing skills as well, which I believe is why Balorgh was given Penetration. This was the only era in this game I personally preferred 5 medium on StamDK.

@Urzigurumash I honestly miss the days of everyone running NMA lol

You're definitely not alone in preferring heavy these days though, seems like every day I hear that little tin clattering sound of my sword hitting someones plate armor more than I did the day before. I understand it though, especially after the original 20% healing nerf, the proliferation of procs, and the addition of malacath, why wear anything else? This meta is as close to perfect for heavy armor as you could ever get.

If you have health based heals heavy buffs that, if you have healing percent modifiers heavy synergizes well with that, and the extra bit of mitigation helps to avoid getting blown up by procs and snipe gankers. Thanks to constitution sustain is never an issue so long as you throw in heavies here and there. You can wear heavy and not have to worry about your damage because you can throw on procs and let them do the damage for you, or you can throw on malacath and still do great damage, or malacath + proc your way to flawless victory. Additionally the nerf to crit % reduced the appeal of medium even further, since now even in medium at base it sits at some pitiful number like 24% -- yet another reason to go Malacath.

I like to rage against the machine and be all contrarian though so I still run medium on my StamDK, but it's a whole lot different than it was not even a year ago. I remember when I used to run NMA in medium + Titanborn, and even as a CP 400-600 I could usually get by on healing alone, but when I recently came back to my sDK and tried to do the same thing, as a real grown up 810 this time, it was a very rude awakening. I just couldn't find a medium build with two damage sets that was sturdy enough to hold up when outnumbered to the pressure people can put down in this meta, so I finally caved and threw a defensive set on my weapon and jewelry.

It's actually kind of funny that my weapon damage using medium is actually lower than most heavy armor builds due to needing a defensive set, where with heavy I can stack two sets with weapon damage and more easily clear the magic 5k number, while also having 8% higher base healing received. But still, even in its current unfortunate state I still prefer my medium.

BTW, I think we may have run into each other at Bruma yesterday? If so, hi! I was that annoying little bosmer with a bow sDK

Ryuvain

Why does malacath have to affect procs in the first place?

Qbiken

Ryuvain wrote: »

Why does malacath have to affect procs in the first place?

Agree, malacath should only affect damage that can inherently critically strike to begin with.

Dracane

Qbiken wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Why does malacath have to affect procs in the first place?

Agree, malacath should only affect damage that can inherently critically strike to begin with.

We can all agree on that I am sure.

SodanTok

Blanket buffs and nerfs like this is why pendelum keeps switching between 2 same points over and over - tanky builds doing damage or damage builds being tanky. Nerf to healing, armor or like here suggested crit resist are all blanket nerfs affecting everyone. Even addition of malacath was just blanket buff, not like before it existed there was any huge difference in crit damage/chance (stats) between damage builds and tanky builds.

Until they start treating balance like precise surgery it will all be same. Right now they are just measuring body temperature and decide what value they should put thermostat on...