I cant gank in 2020

Tharenduil

Hi there, is my first post and english is not my language sorry for this

I have been playing since 2014, the game was fun until 2017, at that time I was killing around 200 player per day with my little bow. I deal d 10-15k damage with snipe skill and 8-13k with my two-handed. In this time player got 17-23k health points.

Now in 2020 after 2 year stop the game im here and i have so many problems:

Players in cyrodil got:

- Minimum 30k hp. Sometimes 35k.
- 50% critical mitigation.
- Easily 30k resistance (around 40% mitigation).
- 1K hp recovery. Sometimes more.

My statistics:

- bow 15k tooltip.
- around 4,5k weapon damage.
- 15k penetration.
- 130% critical damage boost.
- 31k stamina.
- 1.1k regeneration stamina.

Here is my burst in typical player:

- first snipe 7k critical (yes i cant deal more).
- 2nd snipe 4,5k ( no crit ).
- heavy attack is like 4k.
- poison shoot 3k.

So, my burst deal 18,5k in the best conditions, now if you add self health regeneration like 1k = 18,5k- 2k i deal only 16,5k damage.
I try so many build no one work, i try Malacath too i haven't see big changes.

Tell me your story!

redspecter23

You may have to get a bit pickier with your targets. If you attempt to gank someone with 30k hp and it fails over and over again, try someone with lower hp.

Tharenduil

Do you know many peoples with 18,5k hp in cyrodil in 2020?

Dagoth_Rac

Are you playing in CP or no CP? I believe a lot of the super tanky build meta is a CP campaign thing. You may want to try no-CP just to see if it plays differently for your style.

Tharenduil

I play in cp but in no cp is the same, players stack hp and heavy armor for survive.

Waffennacht

People got sick og being ganked

Literally the most hated playstyle.

Procs and ganks make people go tank.

Seems rather natural, assume after some time and a meta change you can get back to ganking

IAmIcehouse

Not sure if it's purely coincidence, because the metas playstyle right now is inarguably the strongest ( health stacked proc tanks), but in noCP, before health stacked proc tanks caught on, everyone was running glass cannon proc set builds. During the AOE tests, gankblades were running rampant because they were the least impacted by the tests. During the end of the tests, people started to build much tankier to counter it.

Turns out that playstyle is much stronger than the glass cannon variant--for reasons such as:
*Malacath
*100%proc chances require less intermittent/supplemental damage
*Sustain sets like EV that cover tanks general weakness
* Health scaling heals

And now that's the meta we are left with. We likely would've ended here eventually, but it seems like it was expedited by how prominent gankblades were during the AOE tests.

Kordai

May need to do more than snipe spam. Like actually play.

JayKwellen

People got tired of being bow ganked and blown up by procs so everyone's a tank now, or at least a lot tankier than they were before.

You're gonna have to incorporate more into your rotation than snipe if you still want to gank anyone other than other gankers and PvErs at Vlastrus.

Or use the vampire toggle and hope nobody sees you. Is Titanborn + vamp still a thing that works, or did zos change that?

Foto1

so it's good

Vizirith

JayKwellen wrote: »

People got tired of being bow ganked and blown up by procs so everyone's a tank now, or at least a lot tankier than they were before.

You're gonna have to incorporate more into your rotation than snipe if you still want to gank anyone other than other gankers and PvErs at Vlastrus.

Or use the vampire toggle and hope nobody sees you. Is Titanborn + vamp still a thing that works, or did zos change that?

Titanborn only works in combat to prevent this. Could still be used but is less of a surprise.

ThePedge

Vizirith wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

People got tired of being bow ganked and blown up by procs so everyone's a tank now, or at least a lot tankier than they were before.

You're gonna have to incorporate more into your rotation than snipe if you still want to gank anyone other than other gankers and PvErs at Vlastrus.

Or use the vampire toggle and hope nobody sees you. Is Titanborn + vamp still a thing that works, or did zos change that?

Titanborn only works in combat to prevent this. Could still be used but is less of a surprise.

Luckily all you have to do in Cyro is attack one player, let them run away and you are stuck in combat for 30 minutes.

Tammany

Waffennacht wrote: »

People got sick og being ganked

Literally the most hated playstyle.

Procs and ganks make people go tank.

Seems rather natural, assume after some time and a meta change you can get back to ganking

Name me at least one mmorpg game where player is able to be super tanky and super bursty in the same time ?
Getting 7k subs and 9k executes from 30k hp plate dude is pretty damn wierd.

Xiomaro

Tammany wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

People got sick og being ganked

Literally the most hated playstyle.

Procs and ganks make people go tank.

Seems rather natural, assume after some time and a meta change you can get back to ganking

Name me at least one mmorpg game where player is able to be super tanky and super bursty in the same time ?
Getting 7k subs and 9k executes from 30k hp plate dude is pretty damn wierd.

It's just the nature of the game. You can pick and choose skills outside your class, use any weapon and use any armour. The current bursty tank is caused by Crimson Twilight/Heavy Armour/Malacath/Frenzied Momentum plus any stam class that has a delayed burst (Warden/Necro).

ZOS could nerf this flavour of meta build but another one will pop up. The only way to change that is to change the nature of people. A lot of people will always gravitate towards the strongest builds. Others will be happy playing off meta but that's never going to be the majority.

Mr_Nobody

Tharenduil wrote: »

Hi there, is my first post and english is not my language sorry for this

I have been playing since 2014, the game was fun until 2017, at that time I was killing around 200 player per day with my little bow. I deal d 10-15k damage with snipe skill and 8-13k with my two-handed. In this time player got 17-23k health points.

Now in 2020 after 2 year stop the game im here and i have so many problems:

Players in cyrodil got:

- Minimum 30k hp. Sometimes 35k.
- 50% critical mitigation.
- Easily 30k resistance (around 40% mitigation).
- 1K hp recovery. Sometimes more.

My statistics:

- bow 15k tooltip.
- around 4,5k weapon damage.
- 15k penetration.
- 130% critical damage boost.
- 31k stamina.
- 1.1k regeneration stamina.

Here is my burst in typical player:

- first snipe 7k critical (yes i cant deal more).
- 2nd snipe 4,5k ( no crit ).
- heavy attack is like 4k.
- poison shoot 3k.

So, my burst deal 18,5k in the best conditions, now if you add self health regeneration like 1k = 18,5k- 2k i deal only 16,5k damage.
I try so many build no one work, i try Malacath too i haven't see big changes.

Tell me your story!

You can gank and its op at the moment.

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gue3TEo8fk

Eedat

I mean people got sick of trash like this so they adapted to not let it work. That's working as intended. You played using a low skill combo on people who weren't paying attention so you never actually improved. Now you're going to learn how to actually play because your cheese strat doesn't work. Honestly I think it's great that it doesn't work anymore.

Grimlok_S

Focus on your target selection...

Unbuffed and unaware players should be your focus. Mounted would be preferable.

Players who don't have their resistances up or HOTs rolling will be much easier to take down overall.

Bombing groups is a fun alternative if you decide to change things up. With that crit dmg modifier I am assuming you're a Khajiit nightblade, which can very easily swap to mag.

Joy_Division

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Tharenduil wrote: »

Hi there, is my first post and english is not my language sorry for this

I have been playing since 2014, the game was fun until 2017, at that time I was killing around 200 player per day with my little bow. I deal d 10-15k damage with snipe skill and 8-13k with my two-handed. In this time player got 17-23k health points.

Now in 2020 after 2 year stop the game im here and i have so many problems:

Players in cyrodil got:

- Minimum 30k hp. Sometimes 35k.
- 50% critical mitigation.
- Easily 30k resistance (around 40% mitigation).
- 1K hp recovery. Sometimes more.

My statistics:

- bow 15k tooltip.
- around 4,5k weapon damage.
- 15k penetration.
- 130% critical damage boost.
- 31k stamina.
- 1.1k regeneration stamina.

Here is my burst in typical player:

- first snipe 7k critical (yes i cant deal more).
- 2nd snipe 4,5k ( no crit ).
- heavy attack is like 4k.
- poison shoot 3k.

So, my burst deal 18,5k in the best conditions, now if you add self health regeneration like 1k = 18,5k- 2k i deal only 16,5k damage.
I try so many build no one work, i try Malacath too i haven't see big changes.

Tell me your story!

You can gank and its op at the moment.

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gue3TEo8fk

Normally I'm not a fan of this, but I loled at 0:44

Laggus

Kordai wrote: »

May need to do more than snipe spam. Like actually play.

He stated his combo is 2 snipes. > 1 = spam?

geonsocal

up to this point I've refused to do any digging for gear, but - I don't think malacath blends well with a nightblade snipe gank - you lose you're ability to do crit damage...

what someone suggested earlier is your answer - be more selective choosing your targets...

if anything you may need to sit in resource towers or by a keep front door to wait until enemy is engaged with guard npcs before attacking...

or, you're gonna have to try to specialize in ganking people on their mounts, or when they jump down from walls...

Stellarvorous

Is that a stamnblade complaining about not being able to bow [Snip] people? in 2020?

It aint personal but nightblade assuming thats what your playing has alot of damage to it atm it aint exactly lacking

I happen to gank my self ...on my necro plar sorc and sometimes my warden/dk you might say im known for it theres even another guy here on the forum that used to gank on a magplar

Ganking is very viable just harder now and you might actually have to commit

granted yes people are going tanky now its the meta but the days of you being able to gib people with a bow for 40 meters away are done

If you want to gank people now your gona have to work for it worst case do like all the other cookie cutter stamnblades roll in a group of 4 new moon balorgh eternal vigor or some stuhns and 4v1 people

Otherwise your gona have to find softer targets they may be fewer but some are still out there if your trying to bow gib someone whos a 50k WW in crimson .....GL with that

Personally speaking though i dont have much sympathy but if you were to say you cant gank because of the bugs and performance in this game atm then id understand completely otherwise its a l2p

[Edited for rude comment]

geonsocal

snipe is a good way to execute, even up close...you just need to roll dodge and be able to sustain...

especially if you're not packing a 2H weapon (dizzying swing/exectioner) or dual wield (spin to win)...say you're using SnB (which has no execute) on one bar...

the thing is though, you have to be able to sustain and mitigate damage while your spamming the heck out of your snipe...

plus, you can't just snipe spam, while your rolling around all over the place like mad - you have to mix in some poison injections/acid sprays and light attacks...a single snipe takes a really long time to land...

unless of course there's a lot of lag, you're on your mount, or there's a lot of other fighting going on around you - in that case - shoot it's not that hard for someone to hit you with 4 or 5 snipes before there's any incoming snipe indication...

I don't know what's worse - getting sniped to death or stunned with no chance to defend...they both equally suck...

anyways, that ain't your problem @Tharenduil ...you're job is to catch people sleeping...

get them checking their map, typing in chat - just arrogantly sitting there on their mounts...unafraid...

do your job @Tharenduil - don't let folks relax, don't let them ride unchallenged to go support objective fights...

ganking is a playstyle that has been played out...that's why they gave everyone extra crit resistances...

geonsocal

the only thing people hate more than:
- ball groups healing and dropping ults like crazy
- unkillable tanks
- uncatchable sorcerers

are people whom gank...

I've been in cyro pretty steady for five years now - I'll still get caught every once in a while thinking I can "outride" the damage/reading my map/changing skills/afk out in the open/sitting on siege equipment/unbuffed at a flag...

I don't like it, but - I believe it's an important element to combat in cyrodiil...

I myself don't really have the patience for actual "ganking", I do have 7 toons that use a bow, it works...

Jsmalls

Xiomaro wrote: »

Tammany wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

People got sick og being ganked

Literally the most hated playstyle.

Procs and ganks make people go tank.

Seems rather natural, assume after some time and a meta change you can get back to ganking

Name me at least one mmorpg game where player is able to be super tanky and super bursty in the same time ?
Getting 7k subs and 9k executes from 30k hp plate dude is pretty damn wierd.

It's just the nature of the game. You can pick and choose skills outside your class, use any weapon and use any armour. The current bursty tank is caused by Crimson Twilight/Heavy Armour/Malacath/Frenzied Momentum plus any stam class that has a delayed burst (Warden/Necro).

ZOS could nerf this flavour of meta build but another one will pop up. The only way to change that is to change the nature of people. A lot of people will always gravitate towards the strongest builds. Others will be happy playing off meta but that's never going to be the majority.

@Xiomaro

I disagree slightly. I played this game at console launch until around 2017ish. So I got to enjoy a rather tankless cyrodiil for quite some time.

I want every playstyle to be possible, but I also want skill based combat back in the game. What's the biggest issue with 30k health players?

It creates mistake/low combat skill forgiveness.

You didn't block/dodge/damage shield that crystal frag/snipe shot/wrecking blow/assassin's scourge? That's fine you have another 23k health to give you recovery time.

And that's not a "meta", that's a gameplay mechanic problem. Once upon a time you made a mistake, you died, respawn and don't let it happen next time. You learn from it, you grow from it, you become better from it.

Now? You make a mistake and your health gives you a free pass to survive this time around. And what's that create? It creates a cryodiil that a 1v1 requires a single player to make 3-4 mistakes in order to result in a death. Or more likely a 4v1 scenario because a 5 minute 1v1 is not worth the time/energy spent.

We need a hardcore cryodiil. ~22k health max. Build your character to avoid damage in a skill based manner.

Or fix the game where if I invest in 100% damage I can compete with a player that invests as 70% survival and 30% damage. If I make a mistake I die? That's fine. But I better also be able to captilize on a single mistake made by the competition, and throw out 30-35k health in a single burst. I think that would help create a I have to learn how to play to survive, versus a I have to have 30k health to make up for my inability to learn how to play.

I know the gank style was disliked, but I always loved it (on the recieving side of the gank). Because guess what? If they make a mistake, they die. They have 21k health and get hit by 11k+ frags. And it made me situationally aware, and made me be in my toes. I let my damage shield down while not blocking? Dead. And good in it, cuz that's a mistake in combat.

Fawn4287

Ganking is a terrible low skill way to play I reckon, however in this current super tank, health based heal, high health recovery meta its becoming difficult to kill people all together, even running 3 damage sets there are more players than ever that are unkillable in a 1 or even 2v1. Now I consider Xving people down is by far the most boring way to play but how else do you kill anyone when every second build is a werewolf or warden with 40k health with huge health based heals coupled with massive health recovery?

Dovahmiim

Stellarvorous wrote: »

Is that a stamnblade complaining about not being able to bow [Snip] people? in 2020?

It aint personal but nightblade assuming thats what your playing has alot of damage to it atm it aint exactly lacking

I happen to gank my self ...on my necro plar sorc and sometimes my warden/dk you might say im known for it theres even another guy here on the forum that used to gank on a magplar

Ganking is very viable just harder now and you might actually have to commit

granted yes people are going tanky now its the meta but the days of you being able to gib people with a bow for 40 meters away are done

If you want to gank people now your gona have to work for it worst case do like all the other cookie cutter stamnblades roll in a group of 4 new moon balorgh eternal vigor or some stuhns and 4v1 people

Otherwise your gona have to find softer targets they may be fewer but some are still out there if your trying to bow gib someone whos a 50k WW in crimson .....GL with that

Personally speaking though i dont have much sympathy but if you were to say you cant gank because of the bugs and performance in this game atm then id understand completely otherwise its a l2p

[Edited for rude comment]

I still do gank on magplar silly

Also, as a reply to the OP, if you want to gank anyone who is well built (ie. 30k health +), you will need an actual combo, as opposed to just spamming snipe. At the moment, the snipe spam gank (as linked above) relies on desync to work, and basically everyone using it is knowingly abusing this bug. If you don't want to rely on desync, I'd recommend getting the vateshran bow, or abusing procs that can crit (ie. undaunted infiltrator/unweaver). In their current state, these procs will go off twice with a DW heavy attack, and be applied before all modifiers, including crits. They are completely OP, so abuse them until ZOS catches on. These are your options for stamblade atm, have fun!

angelofdeath333

I have a solution for you! Step One: equip a maul. Step two: slot surprise attack, relentless focus and incap. Step three: add alot of pen. pen is king. Step four: dont snipe

Ultiscrub Gaming

I use stuhns and new moon with balorgh.

Dizzy swing->light attack->surprise attack-> execute or ultimate then execute

Waffennacht

While I hate ganking, I do not hate those that gank

IMO, its a part of warfare usually over looked - you know how many awesome warriors took an arrow to the chest (knee...) Outta NOwhere?

A ton...

So I figure its like that...

RiskyChalice863

Jsmalls wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

Tammany wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

People got sick og being ganked

Literally the most hated playstyle.

Procs and ganks make people go tank.

Seems rather natural, assume after some time and a meta change you can get back to ganking

Name me at least one mmorpg game where player is able to be super tanky and super bursty in the same time ?
Getting 7k subs and 9k executes from 30k hp plate dude is pretty damn wierd.

It's just the nature of the game. You can pick and choose skills outside your class, use any weapon and use any armour. The current bursty tank is caused by Crimson Twilight/Heavy Armour/Malacath/Frenzied Momentum plus any stam class that has a delayed burst (Warden/Necro).

ZOS could nerf this flavour of meta build but another one will pop up. The only way to change that is to change the nature of people. A lot of people will always gravitate towards the strongest builds. Others will be happy playing off meta but that's never going to be the majority.

@Xiomaro

I disagree slightly. I played this game at console launch until around 2017ish. So I got to enjoy a rather tankless cyrodiil for quite some time.

I want every playstyle to be possible, but I also want skill based combat back in the game. What's the biggest issue with 30k health players?

It creates mistake/low combat skill forgiveness.

You didn't block/dodge/damage shield that crystal frag/snipe shot/wrecking blow/assassin's scourge? That's fine you have another 23k health to give you recovery time.

And that's not a "meta", that's a gameplay mechanic problem. Once upon a time you made a mistake, you died, respawn and don't let it happen next time. You learn from it, you grow from it, you become better from it.

Now? You make a mistake and your health gives you a free pass to survive this time around. And what's that create? It creates a cryodiil that a 1v1 requires a single player to make 3-4 mistakes in order to result in a death. Or more likely a 4v1 scenario because a 5 minute 1v1 is not worth the time/energy spent.

We need a hardcore cryodiil. ~22k health max. Build your character to avoid damage in a skill based manner.

Or fix the game where if I invest in 100% damage I can compete with a player that invests as 70% survival and 30% damage. If I make a mistake I die? That's fine. But I better also be able to captilize on a single mistake made by the competition, and throw out 30-35k health in a single burst. I think that would help create a I have to learn how to play to survive, versus a I have to have 30k health to make up for my inability to learn how to play.

I know the gank style was disliked, but I always loved it (on the recieving side of the gank). Because guess what? If they make a mistake, they die. They have 21k health and get hit by 11k+ frags. And it made me situationally aware, and made me be in my toes. I let my damage shield down while not blocking? Dead. And good in it, cuz that's a mistake in combat.

I definitely disagree that a tankier meta accommodates low skilled players. I think it’s the opposite. In a glass cannon meta, any player can kill any other player during one stun window basically. That’s a big equalizer. A worse player can kill a better player if they get the jump on them. In a tankier meta, a worse player can’t instantly kill a better player. Fights last longer, and when fights last longer, the better player is more likely to win, because the fights will come down to a bunch of little things the players do or don’t do, as opposed to just who stunned the other one first.

Joy_Division

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

Tammany wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

People got sick og being ganked

Literally the most hated playstyle.

Procs and ganks make people go tank.

Seems rather natural, assume after some time and a meta change you can get back to ganking

Name me at least one mmorpg game where player is able to be super tanky and super bursty in the same time ?
Getting 7k subs and 9k executes from 30k hp plate dude is pretty damn wierd.

It's just the nature of the game. You can pick and choose skills outside your class, use any weapon and use any armour. The current bursty tank is caused by Crimson Twilight/Heavy Armour/Malacath/Frenzied Momentum plus any stam class that has a delayed burst (Warden/Necro).

ZOS could nerf this flavour of meta build but another one will pop up. The only way to change that is to change the nature of people. A lot of people will always gravitate towards the strongest builds. Others will be happy playing off meta but that's never going to be the majority.

@Xiomaro

I disagree slightly. I played this game at console launch until around 2017ish. So I got to enjoy a rather tankless cyrodiil for quite some time.

I want every playstyle to be possible, but I also want skill based combat back in the game. What's the biggest issue with 30k health players?

It creates mistake/low combat skill forgiveness.

You didn't block/dodge/damage shield that crystal frag/snipe shot/wrecking blow/assassin's scourge? That's fine you have another 23k health to give you recovery time.

And that's not a "meta", that's a gameplay mechanic problem. Once upon a time you made a mistake, you died, respawn and don't let it happen next time. You learn from it, you grow from it, you become better from it.

Now? You make a mistake and your health gives you a free pass to survive this time around. And what's that create? It creates a cryodiil that a 1v1 requires a single player to make 3-4 mistakes in order to result in a death. Or more likely a 4v1 scenario because a 5 minute 1v1 is not worth the time/energy spent.

We need a hardcore cryodiil. ~22k health max. Build your character to avoid damage in a skill based manner.

Or fix the game where if I invest in 100% damage I can compete with a player that invests as 70% survival and 30% damage. If I make a mistake I die? That's fine. But I better also be able to captilize on a single mistake made by the competition, and throw out 30-35k health in a single burst. I think that would help create a I have to learn how to play to survive, versus a I have to have 30k health to make up for my inability to learn how to play.

I know the gank style was disliked, but I always loved it (on the recieving side of the gank). Because guess what? If they make a mistake, they die. They have 21k health and get hit by 11k+ frags. And it made me situationally aware, and made me be in my toes. I let my damage shield down while not blocking? Dead. And good in it, cuz that's a mistake in combat.

I definitely disagree that a tankier meta accommodates low skilled players. I think it’s the opposite. In a glass cannon meta, any player can kill any other player during one stun window basically. That’s a big equalizer. A worse player can kill a better player if they get the jump on them. In a tankier meta, a worse player can’t instantly kill a better player. Fights last longer, and when fights last longer, the better player is more likely to win, because the fights will come down to a bunch of little things the players do or don’t do, as opposed to just who stunned the other one first.

Yes, but mostly no.

There is some truth that a high damage meta does allow for a higher element of luck.

On the other hand, if the mechanics of the game make for it easy to heal/survive/defense, a mediocre player can drag out a fight indefinitely against a higher skilled player, or at least long enough until the better player loses their patience or another enemy player shows up. And this is invariably what lesser skilled players do because people don't want to die. It totally caters to what most of them want to do; it's totally in their comfort zone.

In a high damage meta, many of these same players will build inefficiently because they're still trying not to die, which would put them at a further disadvantage.