Boomer Brain

bellanca6561n

Norm Abramson died this week at age 88. It was he who conceived of and pioneered the concept of wireless networks. I don’t expect any of you to think of Norm when you check and check and check your smartphones. That would be silly. Why would anyone know of Norm anyway?

Yet I thought of him as I sat in the chat of one of my favorite ESO Stream Team streamers two nights ago. It’s usually delightful, with an RP theme that’s light and often hilarious. Yet at one point, as the star of the show, irritated that he was having trouble with his various video backgrounds, said, “Damn, I’ve suddenly gotten Boomer Brain.”

I asked him what he meant by that. And asked, and asked. Finally, he shouted, and not in his charming RP way, “Listen. It’s a provable fact that old people have trouble with technology!”

Where is this proof, I asked. He bristled. While you may be entitled to your privately held opinions, you are not entitled to any publicly expressed opinion unless you can defend it.

And thus ended my patronage of and relationship with that stream and that community.

It’s not just about Norm Abramson - who predates what we call Boomers - or the fact that all this technology all of us enjoy was created by people now so easily condemned simply by virtue of their date of birth. Yes, plenty of people stop learning at some point. Many don’t. Generation based conflict is as old as the human race itself. And it’s always silly.

I’ve changed with age too. My tolerance for bigotry, never high to begin with, has diminished with the years.

There is not a mean or evil bone in the body of this "Okay, boomer," streamer. He's a dear, delightful soul. But a large percentage of our fellow ESO players are so-called Boomers and, simply by playing and enjoying this game, they've proven they can use technology

R.I.P. Norm....and thank you.

Minyassa

That is some good info, thank you. I did not know about Norm.

It's kind of silly...scratch that, it's absurd to think that "old people" don't get along with technology. Where do these geniuses think that our modern technology came from? The home computers that they grew up with--hell, the flip phones their moms used while changing their diapers--were invented by those old people.

My dad is 76 this year and I call *him* to ask him how to build my next gaming PC. And then I buy the components, and he puts it together for me. He's an electronics engineer, and he was the first person in our town to have an Altair or even know what one was, and because of his keeping up with tech then I was the student in my junior high school that teachers asked to help them set up our school district's first computer classes.

We owe old engineers a LOT.

Danikat

It probably doesn't help that a lot of people (some of whom aren't even that old) will play up to the stereotype.

I've even had people at work try to pass off any part of their job they think might be technical (or, more likely, might be boring) to someone who is supposed to be doing a different job by laughingly claiming they're too old to understand "all that wizzy tech stuff" and can't be expected to learn at their age so it should be done by someone younger (who of course will know how to do it because they're younger). They actually expect that excuse to be accepted, and are never impressed when the answer is that they can do the (online) training course first if they need to.

It drives my mum mad. She's in her 60's but learned to use computers at university (when that was about the only place you found computers) and kept up with them ever since, but a lot of her friends who are the same age insist on seeing technology as something that's not for them and to be avoided. As in they don't even have email addresses, and will go out of their way to avoid getting or using one because they think it might be difficult, but then complain about how so many things require an email address these days.

I suspect it's actually some combination of interests and experience, some people learn to use computers and other tech because they want to, some have to or pick it up from people around them and others somehow go through their entire lives avoid it and come to see it as part of who they are (I've encounted several people who seem quite proud of the fact that they've never owned a computer) and I suppose it's easier to imagine it's due to when/where they were born than to accept it's a personal preference.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

I think we can all agree as people age their mental recollection is not what it used to be.

Boomer brain infers to old people on this path, or developing dementia. Which is a pretty easy reach, considering you don't really hear of the young having problems with their bodies or minds.

I say this as a 37 year old who has a 76 year old mother. There is nothing more rage inspiring than being IT support to a woman who cannot articulate over the phone what her issue is.

So yes, I'd believe the statement boomer brain. As I have first hand experience.

Faulgor

bellanca6561n wrote: »

I asked him what he meant by that. And asked, and asked. Finally, he shouted, and not in his charming RP way, “Listen. It’s a provable fact that old people have trouble with technology!”

Just because you use a certain technology a lot, also does not mean you understand it.

I've actually heard concerns from teachers over the last years that kids these days understand less about computers and programming than they did a decade or two ago.
Why? Because technology has become more complex, and thus less accessible to influence, experimentation and play. 20 years ago, if you didn't build your own website in html, you just wouldn't have one. Nowadays you don't have to concern yourself with that in detail, there are a plethora of services and apps that can do all that for you.

People from my dad's generation have seen the same phenomenon with cars. When they were much simpler, more people would tinker with their own cars, learn about the things they were doing and develop life-long interests. Nowadays, you can barely do anything on your engine yourself, the underlying technology is so complex you need specific tools and know-how from authorized engineers (who might not know the details anymore, either).

As a result, the people who pioneered technologies often have a much deeper understanding of them than their descendants, I've found.

Starlock

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Where is this proof, I asked. He bristled. While you may be entitled to your privately held opinions, you are not entitled to any publicly expressed opinion unless you can defend it.

Really?

Are you sure that's the position you want to take? If you aren't bristling at the implications of what you suggest here, you may not be thinking quite enough about what this would mean for freedom of expression. Just because someone expresses their opinion doesn't mean they want to (much less should need to) "defend" themselves from the inevitable persons who disagrees with them. It is often better to let people be who they are and understand their words are an expression of themselves. Maybe they aren't interested in "defending" themselves because what others say is coming across as an attack on their person? We could just take this person's words as an indication of how they are uncomfortable with technology. It needn't be anything more than that, and I certainly take issue with the suggestion that this person should simply censor themselves because someone thinks they should shut up if they don't want to "defend" themselves.

Sorry, I just... that attitude is something that really bugs me. I've seen it too often used by... well, let's just not go there. It's not really appropriate for these forums.

Recent

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Norm Abramson died this week at age 88. It was he who conceived of and pioneered the concept of wireless networks. I don’t expect any of you to think of Norm when you check and check and check your smartphones. That would be silly. Why would anyone know of Norm anyway?

Yet I thought of him as I sat in the chat of one of my favorite ESO Stream Team streamers two nights ago. It’s usually delightful, with an RP theme that’s light and often hilarious. Yet at one point, as the star of the show, irritated that he was having trouble with his various video backgrounds, said, “Damn, I’ve suddenly gotten Boomer Brain.”

I asked him what he meant by that. And asked, and asked. Finally, he shouted, and not in his charming RP way, “Listen. It’s a provable fact that old people have trouble with technology!”

Where is this proof, I asked. He bristled. While you may be entitled to your privately held opinions, you are not entitled to any publicly expressed opinion unless you can defend it.

And thus ended my patronage of and relationship with that stream and that community.

It’s not just about Norm Abramson - who predates what we call Boomers - or the fact that all this technology all of us enjoy was created by people now so easily condemned simply by virtue of their date of birth. Yes, plenty of people stop learning at some point. Many don’t. Generation based conflict is as old as the human race itself. And it’s always silly.

I’ve changed with age too. My tolerance for bigotry, never high to begin with, has diminished with the years.

There is not a mean or evil bone in the body of this "Okay, boomer," streamer. He's a dear, delightful soul. But a large percentage of our fellow ESO players are so-called Boomers and, simply by playing and enjoying this game, they've proven they can use technology

R.I.P. Norm....and thank you.

Aww this story made me sad 😢 Rest in peace💕 Norm💕 and thank you ⚘💕💕

Glurin

Starlock wrote: »

If you aren't bristling at the implications of what you suggest here, you may not be thinking quite enough about what this would mean for freedom of expression. Just because someone expresses their opinion doesn't mean they want to (much less should need to) "defend" themselves from the inevitable persons who disagrees with them. It is often better to let people be who they are and understand their words are an expression of themselves. Maybe they aren't interested in "defending" themselves because what others say is coming across as an attack on their person? We could just take this person's words as an indication of how they are uncomfortable with technology. It needn't be anything more than that, and I certainly take issue with the suggestion that this person should simply censor themselves because someone thinks they should shut up if they don't want to "defend" themselves.

I had much the same thought when I read that, but wasn't sure how exactly to express it. The censorship crap has gone way too far already, and sadly it's getting much, much worse. Arrogant and dismissive remarks like "okay boomer", along with certain far more offensive and baseless accusations, says a lot about the person making them. I'd rather they be allowed to say it than be silenced. But just because they have the right to say it doesn't mean I have to agree with what they're saying.

SeaGtGruff

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

I think we can all agree as people age their mental recollection is not what it used to be.

Boomer brain infers to old people on this path, or developing dementia. Which is a pretty easy reach, considering you don't really hear of the young having problems with their bodies or minds.

I say this as a 37 year old who has a 76 year old mother. There is nothing more rage inspiring than being IT support to a woman who cannot articulate over the phone what her issue is.

So yes, I'd believe the statement boomer brain. As I have first hand experience.

I think anyone who's honest with themselves will freely admit that their mental recollection is not always as accurate and as complete as they like to think it is, regardless of their age. If young people had as miraculously wonderful memories as many of them like to think they do, then every child would be a straight-A student and would never give wrong answers on tests, and children would never have to argue with their parents over assigned chores or requested actions that they forgot to do.

vestahls

What he meant by "provable" is likely that synapses and neural regeneration get worse with age. It isn't just a boomer thing, I learned things faster when I was 5 years old than I do now. No need to get offended about it.

Also, you're gonna promote Norm Abramson for wireless technology with not a callout for Nikola Tesla? Really?

amapola76

It doesn't help that some of the younger folks don't actually even know what a "boomer" is, and assume it's anyone over the age of 30.

To be fair, there are also some older folks who think a millennial is anyone under the age of 30. As OP noted, generational conflict is as old as the human race... and so are sloppy generalizations, in people of any age.

However, leaving those folks aside, the great thing about this community is that there are far more lovely people, of all generations.

DarcyMardin

I’ll be 73 on my next birthday. My cognitive abilities are just as sharp as ever, although I’d be willing to admit that my physical reflexes are probably a little slower. I’ve always stayed up-to-date on the latest technology.

But I agree with the OP — free speech is vital, yes, but deliberately and erroneously casting slurs on any subgroup of the population is taking free expression too far, IMO. I’d have quit the stream, too.

Nord_Raseri

My Oma is 82 years age and regularly "face-times" her older sister in Germany on her smart phone.My father, an early boomer, is a software engineer and also makes games for phones on his own time. I, a gen x, don't know how to unlock a smart phone let alone how to dial someone up on one. I have a ps4 and a house phone. Even took me 2 years to figure out how to even get on this forum. Obviously generation has little stance on technology in my family.

jedtb16_ESO

“Listen. It’s a provable fact that old people have trouble with technology!”

this always makes me laugh. i've been using computers since the early 70's

yup, i am that old.

GlorphNoldorin

I find the problem with the use of terms like Boomer is that like all stereotype grouping....its just that - a collective grouping . It may or may not reflect the behaviour of the person concerned and it is not representative of the behaviour of everyone placed in that group.

I have been called a Boomer by individuals in PVP zone chat, it is used as the only line of defence (or offense) when the individual concerned doesnt have the intelligence to articulate a reasonable defence of their actions. They resort to dismissive name calling as their only defensive strategy.

I agree with what was said above, freedom of speech should allow unpleasant things to be said. Hopefully the collective intelligence of those around the conversation will really see the person throwing these type of stereotypical accusations for the intelligence they have (or dont have).

SeaGtGruff

vestahls wrote: »

Also, you're gonna promote Norm Abramson for wireless technology with not a callout for Nikola Tesla? Really?

That was one of my thoughts, too. Tesla for the win!

ArchMikem

To the kids who use (abuse) the label, apparently anyone to them over the age of 18 is a Boomer. It's really annoying.

Kids in general this last 5 years have gotten really annoying. I'm saying this as a 28yr old but back in my day kids spent their time playing in the woods with sticks and going on Pokemon Journeys in grayscale.

SeaGtGruff

More and more these days, I find myself shaking my head and thinking, "Kids these days!"

And more and more these days, I find myself thinking that about a greater percentage of the population.

The worst of it is, in my mind I'm still a teenager, even though my body keeps begging to differ with me.

Cadbury

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

More and more these days, I find myself shaking my head and thinking, "Humanity these days!"

FTFY

SeaGtGruff

Cadbury wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

More and more these days, I find myself shaking my head and thinking, "Humanity these days!"

FTFY

True. Thanks for fixing it!

Danikat

Faulgor wrote: »

I've actually heard concerns from teachers over the last years that kids these days understand less about computers and programming than they did a decade or two ago.
Why? Because technology has become more complex, and thus less accessible to influence, experimentation and play. 20 years ago, if you didn't build your own website in html, you just wouldn't have one. Nowadays you don't have to concern yourself with that in detail, there are a plethora of services and apps that can do all that for you.

Yep, for people my age Neopets did a lot to teach website design, and largely unintentionally. "Hey kids! Come play with cute virtual pets on your computer! Hey, why not build a fun web page for your cute pets to tell everyone about how cool they are? You like that idea? Ok, here's a free text box to type HTML into and some links to guides on how to write it. Have fun!"

I'm pretty sure they just couldn't be bothered making a decent web editor for the site and went with literally the bare minimum possible, but it actually opened the door to people doing some pretty impressive things with their pet pages, very few of which were actually about the pets. There were game guides, links to secrets, even some 'choose your own adventure' style games made up of interlinked pages. Plus people using it as an early version of Myspace.

These days I suspect people would insist that you couldn't possibly just give kids a space to write HTML and a guide to how it works and expect them to figure it out and would insist on making an easy to use but very restrictive web page editor instead.

Having said that I've heard that IT lessons in schools have improved. I only had IT lessons my last 2 years in school (before that the school maybe had 1 computer total) and it was basically how to use MS Office. Our first lesson was entirely how to hold and move a mouse (yes, really, that somehow took an hour). We had entire lessons on how to change the formatting in Word, how to do basic sums and create graphs in Excel, and of course how to make a PowerPoint presentation using every single animation and sound effect available. For someone who learned to install and run games in DOS years before that was pretty absurd as an IT lesson, and even the kids who didn't have computers at home didn't really need that much time on how to use Office and could probably have benefitted from more general PC knowledge. But considering how much of a big deal they made the one time I used ctrl+alt+del to fix a frozen computer I suspect the school didn't want us knowing how to actually use their computers. Or believed that if you typed the wrong thing into a PC it would explode.

These days they assume kids know the basics and teach things like programming languages and web design instead. Also a lot of schools have Raspberry PIs to teach kids the basics of how to build and program a computer. The nearest my school ever got to that was making basic timer circuits in electronics class.

vestahls wrote: »

What he meant by "provable" is likely that synapses and neural regeneration get worse with age. It isn't just a boomer thing, I learned things faster when I was 5 years old than I do now. No need to get offended about it.

Also, you're gonna promote Norm Abramson for wireless technology with not a callout for Nikola Tesla? Really?

But surely everyone's heard of Tesla. They may not know everything he did but they'll know of him.

vestahls

Danikat wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

What he meant by "provable" is likely that synapses and neural regeneration get worse with age. It isn't just a boomer thing, I learned things faster when I was 5 years old than I do now. No need to get offended about it.

Also, you're gonna promote Norm Abramson for wireless technology with not a callout for Nikola Tesla? Really?

But surely everyone's heard of Tesla. They may not know everything he did but they'll know of him.

I'll do a funny and, in the spirit of OP, ask where's your hard evidence for that?

Sylvermynx

I got my first computer in 1984. Played my first CRPG in 1985. Built my first machine in 1987. Taught myself html and css in the mid 90s, and ran my own website design and management small business starting in 2005. I'm 73, and while I can use a smart phone, I don't have one as we have no service here at the house; my seriously antique Nokia flip-phone only gets used when we're out if we have a vehicle problem.

In my mind, I'm still mid-20s. As @SeaGtGruff said, my body begs to differ....

TequilaFire

Boomers developed the technology, but we know nothing about it. lmao

LalMirchi

OP Have an awesome, my only regret is that I have just one to give

Jaimeh

I laugh at the shortsightedness and naivete of such comments, not just about technology, but anything else that begets 'lol old people'... firstly, a) it's lucky old people, because reaching old age is not a given, and b) do those who make this comments not realize that they too will age? My most fondest memories in Cyrodiil was from a small-scale group that included a 68-year old player who would talk with his wife about dinner with the mic on and then yell colourfully at the enemies that killed us, and had a very good grasp of the game and PvP in particular. But even if someone doesn't, who cares, we should be so fortunate when we reach 'third age' to understand the technology that will have been developed by then...

Vevvev

Only Luddites and people who didn't grow up with technology struggle with it, and there are people around my age I know (23 for those wondering) who are just as terrible at using technology as these supposed "old people". There is this one old blind man I know who was there making programs for computers back when the programs were written on a piece of paper by punching holes in it before feeding it into the machine. He told me all the stories of the bugs he had to fix and all the other silly things he and his colleagues ran into, and despite having never seen our current devices, UI's, and other stuff he absolutely knows how they work and how to build and program them.