A new weapons skill line, wouldn't that be beautiful

prepstar

*It has probably been written on an occasion or more, but I am just not seeing a thread pertaining to this particular discussion. so if you know of any, please feel free to let me know where I could read upon those threads! Thank you in advance.*

I am just curious as to if there were any talks of a possible new weapons skill line for future updates. It would be nice to have a few more options within the weapon choices. It has been lovely to see all of the new updates all through out Tamriel with how even enemies fight. Some use just a one handed sword whilst using tumbling mechanics to dodge while others cast without the use of staves and evade using various types of teleportation and the like. I think it is wonderful in how these things are starting to make there way into the world and I couldn't be more excited as to how much more it can progress.
For myself, I would love to see a weapons skill tree update with some possible new ways of fighting for ourselves as I would hope most of you would. It would be nice to have a few more options for our "magical" based heroes in particular. What comes to mind is having maybe a "sword & ward" type of magical melee fighter, who conjures his magical ward like"shield" using maybe some type of equipable offhand trinket (that doesn't have to be physically seen). They could have some hack and slash mechanics as well as some off hand spells throughout the skill line, the possibilities are wonderful to think about.
I would also enjoy having a caster who didn't have to use a staff. More often then not I find myself not walking around with a weapon simply because when I cast a certain skill that doesn't seem to require a weapon (through its animation) I feel as though I can stay within the games story a bit better (It probably sounds ridiculous). I've gotten to the point of equipping a weapon in one load out and walking around with out one in another just so that it correlates with the animation graphics. Yet, as we all know, walking around with no weapon is dangerous. So instead of walking around with no weapons equipped, wouldn't it be nice if instead there were some type of gauntlets, an enchanters book, talismans or trinkets that we could equip so that we stay true to some of those two handed casting animations (like in the wardens, psijic and the necromancer skill line where there are more than a few)! With this, we could shoot arcane magics from our hands with various effects depending on what elements that we already have in the game or a set of new elements or arcane energies. The blocking could be conjuring wards and the skill line could be focused on buffs and movement perhaps, who knows! But it would be nice to not see my weapon disappear and reappear every time I cast a two handed skill. Also, if gauntlets were an option, they could also be a form of physical damage dealing. There could possibly be a mechanic that could differentiate between an arcane damage dealer with no staff and a pugilist physical damage dealer, who maybe relies on close quarters punches and even kicking or even grappling.
I haven't spent nearly enough time thinking of specific mechanics and skills for any of this at all mind you, I was just caught up in the moment of wishful thinking. So I would love to hear what you in community would think. I think this would give our heroes more quality of life and that immense sense of immersion as we move throughout the world. What kinds of weapon mechanics would you love to see?

Thanks for reading.

MashmalloMan

Yes. This is pretty high on what players seem to have wanted since launch. There were many requests for things like Jewelry Crafting, Transmuting system, Housing, Ice class, Nature class and Necromancy class. All of which has been fulfilled.

The only major remaining requests from launch that I continue to see today are Spellcrafting and more weapons, especially a melee magicka weapon since a ranged option is already available and 2/4 of the main classes (Templar/DK) are very melee magicka based. It always felt odd that they were forced to use staves. Could even throw in Magblade there as a somewhat melee oriented mag class.

So while a new class would be fitting this year and in line with the patten of their chapter releases.. it's not what long term fans have wanted and as far as I'm concerned, there is no giant void for the classes to be filled at this point. Every element is covered. Every class like NPC is now a class available to us (You could find Ice/Nature and Necromancer mages throughout the base game 6 years ago).

Now common sense shows the issue with creating a new weapon means ZOS would need to design like 100 + motifs to match whats available which is probably more work then they're willing to do. So the obvious answer is to make the 1h + magic or rune weapon line.

1. Can make it sort of a hybrid like weapon line since it uses a melee weapon and magic in the other hand.
2. This playstyle was made extremely popular in Skyrim, almost everyone tried that out as their first build.. but the magic in that game was garbage so .. eh, it was pretty weak, but very fun.
3. 1handed weapon motifs do not need to be replaced, set items do not need to be recreated, all we would need to do is equip a rune, book or bracelet of some kind in our offhand to activate the new skill line. This is exactly how 1h + shield works so the template is already there.
4. This one is important, what ever new system they make it always needs to work for multiple builds or playstyles. Jewelry crafting, psijic order, warden, necro, excavating, it can work for anyone. Heck the psijic order had 6 skill slots and basically made a skill for each type of playstyle. DPS, Tanking, Utility, Healing, etc.. The problem with making a magicka specific weapon is you would then need to create a stamina weapon as well. Thats double the work for them along with the motif issue. Why not just create both in one line where it makes sense, 1h + rune. The passives could work both ways and this is highlighted as possible by the recent dynamic scaling to light/heavy attacks.

For ZOS.. easy money, easy work.

Since they made an exploration based system last chapter, this year has to be combat focussed.. In order of what I think they could do. 1. New Weapon (Long time request). 2. Spell Crafting (Probably still too early). 3. New class (In pattern with previous years).

We will only get 1.

ExistingRug61

@MashmalloMan has given a good summary, and I agree with his assessment that 1 hand + rune/magic would be one of the more convenient ways to implement it. This has been one of the most discussed options that I have seen.

Although while it does avoid the issue of needing to make heaps of new weapon models for all the motifs, it would still require a massive amount of itemisation change across the game, ie: while the rune/bracelet whatever won't need a physical model designed, it would still need to actually exist as an item, likely for every set in the game, and then have to be added to all the drop tables. Because it needs to be an actual item with a set, trait and enchant, otherwise you would end up with only 11 set pieces instead of the normal 12, as well as losing the offhand trait and enchant vs any other setup. Unless they do something funky like make it an item that simply activates the skill, but also makes your main hand count for two set pieces, double enchant strength and double trait strength.

One other possible method that I haven't seen discussed as much in detail but occasionally gets indirectly suggested would be to extend the direction they have taken with making light and heavy attacks scale with highest resource, that is to make the existing weapon options viable for both magicka and stamina. Currently this is restricted due to the weapons all having fixed damage types, as well as a lack of skills that support it. But there's no reason that we couldn't just have all the existing weapons and then get one or two new skill lines that allow the normally physical weapons to do some form of magicka damage and have magicka skills that require those weapons to be equipped. And vice versa for staves (possibly skills that allow using staves as a melee physical quarterstaff).
This avoids the itemisation issue above, and it also opens up basically any possibility with the current assets. Some challenges/disadvantages I see with this approach would be:
1) how this skill line gets "activated" vs the existing weapon skill lines - could be that it works in parallel with the existing and then has passives that are do something like "while XXX skill is slotted, light and heavy attacks deal <insert alternate damage type> damage" and "while XXX skill is slotted, heavy attacks restore magicka" (and then the converse for stamina as well).
2) Given that it basically opens up any possible combination of weapon and stat, it could be a balancing nightmare. (as opposed to something like 1hand and rune, where you can do much more targeted changes if something is imbalanced)
3) It doesn't have the wow factor of "NEW WEAPON" which would be a first for the game since release, and instead is a rework of existing weapons and some new skills.
Although I do like that this really expands of "play as you want". I mean if it was done well then suddenly: want to be a magdk but use a fire dealing 2H sword? sure. or a magblade with two magic dealing daggers? sure. or a stamden with a staff and whack things? why not. or a magic archer sorcerer? could work. So many possibilities.

MentalxHammer

1h mag skill line with passive stating, "you use magicka for break free, dodge, sprint, and bash." Would do wonders for balance

MashmalloMan

MentalxHammer wrote: »

1h mag skill line with passive stating, "you use magicka for break free, dodge, sprint, and bash." Would do wonders for balance

This is a very cool idea, although I'd want the skill line to be hybridized, this should be integral to the design of the weapon skill line, could make for some interesting builds for Stamina builds even. And really.. it can be it's own passive so people can opt out if they like the same way we use to opt out of taunting via heavy attacks with Ice staves.

@ExistingRug61 Great idea as well. My problem with your idea is that I don't think it's worth selling and hard to market. It could just be a quality of life feature in a free update, there wouldn't be any skill line or items needed. Just like light/heavy attack dynamic scaling or abilities like soul trap and destruction staff skills, they could change behavior based on highest resources.

If we're talking about some type of new system for a Chapter release that they would want to sell, the 1h + rune is really the only viable option I can see for sellable and manageable content. Despite that, I'm very skeptical it would ever actually happen, so I'm inclined to believe we would just get some type of quality of life update for dynamic scaling or nothing at all..

If I'm being realistic. Best case scenario is they focus on making a universal skill line like Spell Crafting since it avoids the itemization issues you brought up and can be used by everyone, it also hits that nostolgia mark they aim for with chapter releases and now that we know the next chapter is "Gates of Oblivion".. it kinda makes sense to revisit what made the older elder scrolls games so much fun - spell crafting. It would be very to sell and market to general audiences instead of.. "Hey buy the new chapter so you can use any weapon with any build you want." I mean you can already do that now, it's just not optimal, but 100% viable.

Paraphrasing here, but the quote was similar to something like: "We want every class and build to be viable, but not necessarily optimal." This is why every class lacks something, but can at least get something close from another guild/world/weapon/set/potion. It's intentional by design and forces you to think about your build, but allows anyone to play how they like. With power creep, you can really do anything up to 4 man dlc vet dungeons for end game with any combination of sub optimal sets and skills as long as you understand how to do a rotation and follow mechanics. Overland where most people play this way is a cake walk by design, enemies have 30k hp, yet our solo dps for end game builds can reach 40-50k dps easily.

They've openned the gates a little more by allowing dynamic scaling for light/heavy attacks which is very nice, but there is a whole list of issues they'd have to figure out if weapon skills dynamically scaled their damage type and/or resource. You can already use a 2H Sword or 2H DW as a magicka build and do pretty well with it. Most of the passives provide some form of benefit and I'd like them to make other passives more viable as well.. Eg. Swords work well for +8% damage, but Maces only do physical penetration, Staves only do Spell Penetration, Bow only gives weapon crit, Daggers only give weapon crit. Those basic passives could easily effect both sides of the coin, especially since those stats were suppose to be combined into 1.

The real issue with using the "wrong" weapon right now is how CP drags them down because you miss out on 11% physical damage or 4k penetration, etc, then again, why fix it if CP is suppose to be completely redesigned in 1-2 patches. This may no longer actually be a concern, no one knows.

Sure..The skills don't work well right now, but at the same time thats somewhat to be expected for using a melee weapon on magicka character or vise versa. Luckily for Magicka builds, most of your skills come from the class by design anyway with only the aoe weapon dots as 100% necessary for pve simply because of the enchantment/ability altering back bar set effect.

So TLDR:

1. I can't see ZOS marketing hybridized versions of current weapon skill lines as something you need to purchase, therefore it could just be half-baked in a free update to allow a little more versatility, but not completely destroy the game balance.
2. While I'd love a 1H + Rune weapon and it seems like the only financially viable and marketable option, I still don't really see them going that route because of the itemization issues you listed, even if it avoids Motif problems. We would also need 5 new ability altering sets for the existing content, loot table updates to everything in the game for at least the rune and drop table pools would become even worse by introducing more cannon fodder into the mix.
3. Focussing on some type of universal skill line like Psijic Order in Spell Crafting is in their nature, while also avoiding itemization issues, it hits that nostolgia feel for marketing, is in line with a chapter like Oblivion and anyone can use it so anyone would want to unlock it. More money, easier workload so why not.

But yeah. I'd love for hybrid versions of current weapons and I'd love a new weapon, I just don't see it happening any time soon for this game based on their history.

ExistingRug61

MentalxHammer wrote: »

1h mag skill line with passive stating, "you use magicka for break free, dodge, sprint, and bash." Would do wonders for balance

I've often thought something like this would be cool as well, but I'd be less sure about simply swapping them all to mag, because then most mag builds wouldn't use stam at all so would be "wasting" their base stamina and stamina regen, as there aren't really any utility skills that mag use that cost stam. I think I'd prefer maybe just some being swapped (ie: break free but not roll dodge), or split costs, or if they are swapped by individual passives instead of all as a group then you could only pick the ones you want, I dunno.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

@ExistingRug61 Great idea as well. My problem with your idea is that I don't think it's worth selling and hard to market. It could just be a quality of life feature in a free update, there wouldn't be any skill line or items needed. Just like light/heavy attack dynamic scaling or abilities like soul trap and destruction staff skills, they could change behavior based on highest resources.

Yeah I know what you mean, its what I was trying to allude to with my third disadvantage of it not having a "wow" factor. It's not really marketable as a new exciting feature, which I guess is what ZOS would want for a chapter.

And yeah I agree with your assessment that a universal skill line would be much simpler for ZOS and hence probably more likely. It avoids all the background issues that would come with any new weapon skill line (designs for all motiffs, itemisation changes, inconsistency with existing systems etc etc).

But still, one can dream. Any change along these lines (provided it is done somewhat well), be it 1h and rune, some other weapon, skill lines that allow hybrid use of weapons, or whatever, is probably the thing I would like to see most in the game.

Grianasteri

prepstar wrote: »

*It has probably been written on an occasion or more, but I am just not seeing a thread pertaining to this particular discussion. so if you know of any, please feel free to let me know where I could read upon those threads! Thank you in advance.

Mate, there are plenty of threads discussing potential new skill lines. I've commented in probably at least half a dozen in the last few months.

In summary, ESO requires a new MAGICA - WEAPON skill line. Many ideas surround the ability to duel wield a 1h melee weapon, along side a magica weapon or magica use - battle mage in nature. My preference is for effectively a duel wield magica weapon skill line, (so NEW magica weapons, tome (magic books), rune (think fantasy lore dwarven magic), open hand, wand, etc, there are plenty of options available. This duel wield magica weapon skill line will also allow the selection of a melee weapon in one hand with one of the magica weapons in the other... this will require some thought from the devs but it is certainly possible.

Any talk of stamina based melee weapons/skill trees needs to get in the bin for now, they already have 4 skill lines with 5 varieties of weapon available (6 if you count shields). Magica only has staffs with one offensive skill line.

prepstar

Thank you all for the insight and detailed responses. I can tell that this subject has been thoroughly thought out by each one of you. I hope the hear it with this next roll out into oblivion. It does line up with the chapters and aligns with everything thus far in game to input these updates. I seriously hope the devs take heed to the community. They have been pretty good about that. Only time will tell.