*SPOIL* 2021... The next zone theory

MaisonNaevius

The first CGI teaser / trailer for Chapter of the Year 2021 therefore arrived late on the night of Thursday December 10 to Friday December 11, 2020 during The Game Awards 2020 ceremony.

I thought of a bosmer who would be our ally, and well it is now confirmed. Some will have recognized it ... Eveli Sharp-Arrow will therefore be back for this new adventure.










Between Investigator Vale and Lyris, we finally understood that the plot would revolve around Skingrad. Other theories evoke the important place that ghosts play or more lore will play around Rislav Larich or the Potentate Akavirois.

However ... The first scene of this trailer leaves me skeptical about Skingrad and Colovia ... We see an Argonian accompanying Eveli then her dream: we are in the Black Marsh (trees, vegetation in general ...) , which is confirmed a little more when one enters a ruin with a typical Argonian building before finally entering the Deadland to see Eveli there facing Mehrunes Dagon.

A strong Argonian presence ... And this first scene ... Is it really the Stride river and Skingrad at the back? Located between the Colovian highlands (left) and Hammerfell (right)? It is possible, but I cannot be convinced.



In TES IV (viewing distance is quite poor ... You can barely make out Skingrad in the background), this view looks more or less similar over the Strid River when looking east.




So maybe the Brena River with Sutch? I doubt. No. It makes me especially think of the Niben with Leyawiin in the background ... We can see the chapel oriented in the same way under the same angle in TES IV. The river seems to cross the city and one distinguishes another construction on the left which could be the castle.

So ... Lyris lied to us? It is still too early to tell ... Who knows, the adventure will lead us to Leyawiin at the end of the year ... where the threat seems to come from. So far there has never been an error about the upcoming destination in the final dialogs :

Morrowind - Vivec : "Clockwork City" > Clockwork City - Sotha Sil : "Summerset Isles" > Summerset - Razum Daz : "return to home" > Elsweyr - Abnur Tharn : "Pellitine" > Dragonhold (South of Elsweyr) - Cadwell : "Solitude" > Greymoor (Western Skyrim) - Fridelja : "Reach" > Markarth - Lyris Titanborn : "Skingrad" > ...



The threat coming from the Black Marsh, will we then have Colovia in Q2 and finally Blackwood in Q4 to finish ?

In short ... We will know a lot more on January 21, 2021.

Sylvermynx

I thought the Argonian and the swampy look of some of that might make a lot more sense as Bravil south to Leyawiin, yes.

RemanCyrodiil_I

-

Sylvermynx

Oh, that's true as well @RemanCyrodiil_I - that trailer was a long time back now.... so I'd forgotten!

Faulgor

I don't see how the city in the trailer could be Leyawiin. The elevation is way too high up in the hillls when it should be at sea level.

That said, they usually take some creative liberties in these things. We'll have to wait and see.

Iccotak

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

The first trailer for Elsweyr depicted the Halls of Colossus.. yet neither of the zones we received that year contained it. It was a prologue area.

The inclusion of an Argonian temple in this first trailer does not exclude the possibility of Colovia.. it too may be a separate prologue location detached from the main zones.

Sure but the prologue assets and architecture do directly relate to the upcoming Zone.

Especially for trailers. The trailer is supposed to communicate what we should expect of the chapter.

So saying that it’s only the prologue would still support that it involves Black Marsh.

We are quick to jump on Skingrad and Dagon but imo many are ignoring a lot of other clues and hints about what else there could be.

Hints that indicate the next Chapter will heavily involve Argonians.
1. Argonian Companion is either representative of the player or is a character representative of his home - either way that indicates Black Marsh
2. In the trailer the landscape is mist ridden with the sounds of animals of a swamp or very warm & humid climate.
3. The Vision shows Black Marsh along with Argonian ruins and architecture.
4. The "Global Reveal Event" background in the official news post features Limestone with Greenery and Moss. Limestone has been known to form in wetlands near the ocean.
5. The presence of various Argonian themed crown store items that mention the Imperial City of "Gideon" which is in Black Marsh
6. Gideon was the Captial City of the original Murkmire zone which was originally going to be an Adventure Zone several years ago but was set aside after feedback on Craglorn. The Murkmire in 2018 was not the one that they originally made - meaning the old one could still be repurposed and called something else with Gideon as its capital.
7. Gideon is also in a similar position as the the imperial town we see in the CGI cinematic.
8. Leaks of various upcoming crown store items that are also Argonian themed, like the Wolf-Lizard Pup
9. The Twitch Account Link Stream Reward is a very Exotic Green Dragon Frog - animals that are found in Hew's Bane and Black Marsh.

Also 2019 was a year where we got both something Familiar (Dragons) and New (Elsweyr) in a Chapter - So I would not put it past ZOS to do the same things again with Argonians.

This next bit is more far reaching BUT it is based on on my observations of the build-up and foreshadowing I have seen in questing from relatively recent previous content.

The Green Dragon Frog is reminiscent of Peryite's form - a six limbed Green Dragon.
Peryite has been showing up since the Dragon Bones DLC. His influence is most recently felt in Elsweyr with the spread of the Knahaten Flu which originated in Black Marsh, some believe that Peryite is behind the disease. We had several quests in 2019 that dealt with the Flu and Peryite's Cult.

Why is this important? Remember that the news post said

They’ll be joined by ESO’s Creative Director Rich Lambert and other special guests from the ESO development team to talk about the Gates of Oblivion’s new worlds, challenges, systems, and adventures—all coming in 2021!

Worlds - Plural.

How does this tie in to Dagon, the Daedric Prince of Chaos & Destruction? Peryite is the Prince of Natural Order - a perfect counterpoint to Dagon. Two Princes that represent two constant forces in Black Marsh, Chaos and Natural Order.

Peryite is also a great follow up from

Namira, the Scuttling Void who is associated with all things generally considered repulsive - and is heavily a part of the Dark Heart of Skyrim story.

This is not to dismiss Skingrad as a possibility but to point out that there is actually a lot that could be happening and assuming that this will just be a re-skin of the Oblivion game seems a bit premature when even the little information available indicates more than that assumption.

-End

bluebird

Could just be the Q1 DLCs. We go to some sunken Argonian temple and discover clues about Dagon. Like, some explorers have found something forgotten. Just like Wrathstone kicked off the Elsweyr year with an Ayleid and a Dwemer dungeon, and how Harrowstorm included a Redguard place.

Both included a McGuffin that was relevant to the Prologue (Wrathstone fragments, Gray Reliquaries) and the larger story during the year. Eveli's vision might be the motivating factor to us exploring the Argonian dungeon place, and discovering that it has a portal to the Deadlands.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Iccotak wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

The first trailer for Elsweyr depicted the Halls of Colossus.. yet neither of the zones we received that year contained it. It was a prologue area.

The inclusion of an Argonian temple in this first trailer does not exclude the possibility of Colovia.. it too may be a separate prologue location detached from the main zones.

Sure but the prologue assets and architecture do directly relate to the upcoming Zone.

Especially for trailers. The trailer is supposed to communicate what we should expect of the chapter.

So saying that it’s only the prologue would still support that it involves Black Marsh.

We are quick to jump on Skingrad and Dagon but imo many are ignoring a lot of other clues and hints about what else there could be.

Hints that indicate the next Chapter will heavily involve Argonians.
1. Argonian Companion is either representative of the player or is a character representative of his home - either way that indicates Black Marsh
2. In the trailer the landscape is mist ridden with the sounds of animals of a swamp or very warm & humid climate.
3. The Vision shows Black Marsh along with Argonian ruins and architecture.
4. The "Global Reveal Event" background in the official news post features Limestone with Greenery and Moss. Limestone has been known to form in wetlands near the ocean.
5. The presence of various Argonian themed crown store items that mention the Imperial City of "Gideon" which is in Black Marsh
6. Gideon was the Captial City of the original Murkmire zone which was originally going to be an Adventure Zone several years ago but was set aside after feedback on Craglorn. The Murkmire in 2018 was not the one that they originally made - meaning the old one could still be repurposed and called something else with Gideon as its capital.
7. Gideon is also in a similar position as the the imperial town we see in the CGI cinematic.
8. Leaks of various upcoming crown store items that are also Argonian themed, like the Wolf-Lizard Pup
9. The Twitch Account Link Stream Reward is a very Exotic Green Dragon Frog - animals that are found in Hew's Bane and Black Marsh.

Also 2019 was a year where we got both something Familiar (Dragons) and New (Elsweyr) in a Chapter - So I would not put it past ZOS to do the same things again with Argonians.

This next bit is more far reaching BUT it is based on on my observations of the build-up and foreshadowing I have seen in questing from relatively recent previous content.

The Green Dragon Frog is reminiscent of Peryite's form - a six limbed Green Dragon.
Peryite has been showing up since the Dragon Bones DLC. His influence is most recently felt in Elsweyr with the spread of the Knahaten Flu which originated in Black Marsh, some believe that Peryite is behind the disease. We had several quests in 2019 that dealt with the Flu and Peryite's Cult.

Why is this important? Remember that the news post said

They’ll be joined by ESO’s Creative Director Rich Lambert and other special guests from the ESO development team to talk about the Gates of Oblivion’s new worlds, challenges, systems, and adventures—all coming in 2021!

Worlds - Plural.

How does this tie in to Dagon, the Daedric Prince of Chaos & Destruction? Peryite is the Prince of Natural Order - a perfect counterpoint to Dagon. Two Princes that represent two constant forces in Black Marsh, Chaos and Natural Order.

Peryite is also a great follow up from

Namira, the Scuttling Void who is associated with all things generally considered repulsive - and is heavily a part of the Dark Heart of Skyrim story.

This is not to dismiss Skingrad as a possibility but to point out that there is actually a lot that could be happening and assuming that this will just be a re-skin of the Oblivion game seems a bit premature when even the little information available indicates more than that assumption.

-End

The argonian stuff could also be for the first dlc
Out of the 2 year long story to date only one of the 4 1rst quater dongeon is the same theme as the rest of the year
Elsweyr got an ayleid temple in the gold coast and a dwemer ruin in eastmarsh wich is on the oter side of the continent
With greymoor we got icereach wich is nord themed and a Redguard tomb

We could definily go to an argonian dungeon to learn half of the menace and then go to cyrodiil and/or deadland
Also alot of imperial stuff was also datamined,
Oblivion 15th aniversary and major character saying were they are going next all point to cyrodill


I guess we will only know for certain on the reveal date

Iccotak

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

The first trailer for Elsweyr depicted the Halls of Colossus.. yet neither of the zones we received that year contained it. It was a prologue area.

The inclusion of an Argonian temple in this first trailer does not exclude the possibility of Colovia.. it too may be a separate prologue location detached from the main zones.

Sure but the prologue assets and architecture do directly relate to the upcoming Zone.

Especially for trailers. The trailer is supposed to communicate what we should expect of the chapter.

So saying that it’s only the prologue would still support that it involves Black Marsh.

We are quick to jump on Skingrad and Dagon but imo many are ignoring a lot of other clues and hints about what else there could be.

Hints that indicate the next Chapter will heavily involve Argonians.
1. Argonian Companion is either representative of the player or is a character representative of his home - either way that indicates Black Marsh
2. In the trailer the landscape is mist ridden with the sounds of animals of a swamp or very warm & humid climate.
3. The Vision shows Black Marsh along with Argonian ruins and architecture.
4. The "Global Reveal Event" background in the official news post features Limestone with Greenery and Moss. Limestone has been known to form in wetlands near the ocean.
5. The presence of various Argonian themed crown store items that mention the Imperial City of "Gideon" which is in Black Marsh
6. Gideon was the Captial City of the original Murkmire zone which was originally going to be an Adventure Zone several years ago but was set aside after feedback on Craglorn. The Murkmire in 2018 was not the one that they originally made - meaning the old one could still be repurposed and called something else with Gideon as its capital.
7. Gideon is also in a similar position as the the imperial town we see in the CGI cinematic.
8. Leaks of various upcoming crown store items that are also Argonian themed, like the Wolf-Lizard Pup
9. The Twitch Account Link Stream Reward is a very Exotic Green Dragon Frog - animals that are found in Hew's Bane and Black Marsh.

Also 2019 was a year where we got both something Familiar (Dragons) and New (Elsweyr) in a Chapter - So I would not put it past ZOS to do the same things again with Argonians.

This next bit is more far reaching BUT it is based on on my observations of the build-up and foreshadowing I have seen in questing from relatively recent previous content.

The Green Dragon Frog is reminiscent of Peryite's form - a six limbed Green Dragon.
Peryite has been showing up since the Dragon Bones DLC. His influence is most recently felt in Elsweyr with the spread of the Knahaten Flu which originated in Black Marsh, some believe that Peryite is behind the disease. We had several quests in 2019 that dealt with the Flu and Peryite's Cult.

Why is this important? Remember that the news post said

They’ll be joined by ESO’s Creative Director Rich Lambert and other special guests from the ESO development team to talk about the Gates of Oblivion’s new worlds, challenges, systems, and adventures—all coming in 2021!

Worlds - Plural.

How does this tie in to Dagon, the Daedric Prince of Chaos & Destruction? Peryite is the Prince of Natural Order - a perfect counterpoint to Dagon. Two Princes that represent two constant forces in Black Marsh, Chaos and Natural Order.

Peryite is also a great follow up from

Namira, the Scuttling Void who is associated with all things generally considered repulsive - and is heavily a part of the Dark Heart of Skyrim story.

This is not to dismiss Skingrad as a possibility but to point out that there is actually a lot that could be happening and assuming that this will just be a re-skin of the Oblivion game seems a bit premature when even the little information available indicates more than that assumption.

-End

The argonian stuff could also be for the first dlc
Out of the 2 year long story to date only one of the 4 1rst quater dongeon is the same theme as the rest of the year
Elsweyr got an ayleid temple in the gold coast and a dwemer ruin in eastmarsh wich is on the oter side of the continent
With greymoor we got icereach wich is nord themed and a Redguard tomb

We could definily go to an argonian dungeon to learn half of the menace and then go to cyrodiil and/or deadland
Also alot of imperial stuff was also datamined,
Oblivion 15th aniversary and major character saying were they are going next all point to cyrodill

I guess we will only know for certain on the reveal date

Why would they make a cinematic trailer for the dungeons? That makes no sense.

The Chapter Trailer has always been primarily about the zone that the Chapter will take place in. The primary race it will focus on. and the two primary locations we see are Black Marsh and Deadlands (kind of like how Greymoor was Skyrim and Blackreach)

For Elsweyr or Skyrim we never saw the dlc dungeons in their cinematic trailers - so why would they do that here?

The Prologue quest can be done without doing any of the dungeons and the assets shown in the prologue quest are always seen in the Chapter and Story DLC Zone.

This was the case for Elsweyr as you visted areas there when releasing the Dragons out of the Halls of Colossus.
This was the case for Skyrim when you found a secret passage in a house in Skyrim to Blackreach.

The Prologue Quests themselves always involve the primary zone(s) of the chapter.

Both the Cinematic Trailer and the Prologue Quest (which can be done without doing the Dungeons) always showcase the primary themes and aesthetic of the new Chapter. So I do not agree with the idea that it will be a throwaway dungeon

Iccotak

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

The first trailer for Elsweyr depicted the Halls of Colossus.. yet neither of the zones we received that year contained it. It was a prologue area.

Actually you do get it. It is part of the house you earn (which is in Elsweyr) in doing the main quest line over the course of "Season of the Dragon"

bluebird

Iccotak wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

The first trailer for Elsweyr depicted the Halls of Colossus.. yet neither of the zones we received that year contained it. It was a prologue area.

Actually you do get it. It is part of the house you earn (which is in Elsweyr) in doing the main quest line over the course of "Season of the Dragon"

They are still right - none of the zones we got that year contained it. One wing of the Hall of the Lunar Champion takes you to an overlook that looks down on the Halls of the Colossus. But it's connected with portals, and isn't actually in the zone Elsweyr. The Halls of the Colossus is tucked between Valenwood and Pellitine, but isn't accessible in either Anequina nor Pellitine.

Plus, having part of a house include the location doesn't exactly mean much - we got a Redguard and an Orcish home in 2020, but the only Redguard thing was a dungeon, and there were no Orcs in this year's story. We may get a Wood Elf and an Argonian home, but that doesn't make the Chapter Blackmarsh.

The hints towards Skingrad are too strong - so we may get the West Weald incl. Skingrad (a region that borders Valenwood) for the Chapter, and Blackwood (bordering on Blackmarsh) for the Q4 DLC. But the characters in trailers are often just standins for the player - we saw the Breton Hero dude in a prison caravan, but Elsweyr had nothing to do with Bretons.

Iccotak

bluebird wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

The first trailer for Elsweyr depicted the Halls of Colossus.. yet neither of the zones we received that year contained it. It was a prologue area.

Actually you do get it. It is part of the house you earn (which is in Elsweyr) in doing the main quest line over the course of "Season of the Dragon"

They are still right - none of the zones we got that year contained it. One wing of the Hall of the Lunar Champion takes you to an overlook that looks down on the Halls of the Colossus. But it's connected with portals, and isn't actually in the zone Elsweyr. The Halls of the Colossus is tucked between Valenwood and Pellitine, but isn't accessible in either Anequina nor Pellitine.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Halls_of_Colossus

The Halls of Colossus is an ancient set of ruins found in the province of Elsweyr, deep in the reaches of the region of Pellitine. It overlooks the Great Divide,

It's there you just can't get to it by normal means.

bluebird wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

The first trailer for Elsweyr depicted the Halls of Colossus.. yet neither of the zones we received that year contained it. It was a prologue area.

Actually you do get it. It is part of the house you earn (which is in Elsweyr) in doing the main quest line over the course of "Season of the Dragon"

Plus, having part of a house include the location doesn't exactly mean much - we got a Redguard and an Orcish home in 2020, but the only Redguard thing was a dungeon, and there were no Orcs in this year's story. We may get a Wood Elf and an Argonian home, but that doesn't make the Chapter Blackmarsh.

The point is that the House of Colossus was part of Khajiit Zone and the events that happen there directly affected Elsweyr which is where you go and you do get the Colossus later as part of a house you EARN which is different from a house in the store.

(Edit #3: and in no way did a say that a store bought house hinted or teased future chapter.)

The Dungeons "Areas" never really indicate the zone. Only the prologue quest. Which is my point; the trailer and prologue are what indicate the next zone - Not the Dungeons.

This was the case for both Skyrim and Elsweyr.

bluebird wrote: »

The hints towards Skingrad are too strong - so we may get the West Weald incl. Skingrad (a region that borders Valenwood) for the Chapter, and Blackwood (bordering on Blackmarsh) for the Q4 DLC. But the characters in trailers are often just standins for the player - we saw the Breton Hero dude in a prison caravan, but Elsweyr had nothing to do with Bretons.

I am not completely dismissing Skingrad as a possibility.
My point is that there is a alot of other evidence of what the chapter will entail and I think people are all too quick to jump on just Skingrand and Dagon - and dismiss other possibilities. Assuming it will just be Cyrodil. But it seems a bit premature when even the little information available indicates more than that assumption.

EDIT#2: and I think the OP is right to question the assumption that it's Skingrad for the Chapter

EDIT#1: and it might be the other way around - it might be the Q4 dlc that takes place in Skingrad where we meet up with Lyris

ealdwin

Bear in mind, when discussing the trailer, that it is indeed a Teaser Trailer, that is only around 1:32 in length.

For comparison, the Elsweyr Announcement Trailer that featured the Halls of Colossus was around 3:03 in length, and the final Elsweyr Trailer that teased Skyrim was around 2:51 in length (The Skyrim portion is about 10 seconds though...)

What we've gotten is very little to actually go off of.

That being said, I did make a few interesting observations by grabbing screenshots in the first few seconds and brightening them up in Photoshop (image below)

1. The ruins Eveli is lying in are distinctly Imperial. They have those Greco-Roman pillar grooves on one of the fallen pieces, and the coloration seems to match the grey stone of the Colovian/Imperial architecture we have seen previously.
2. The ruins appear to be up on a cliff. If you look closely, you can see the edge just beyond Eveli.

bluebird

Iccotak wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

The first trailer for Elsweyr depicted the Halls of Colossus.. yet neither of the zones we received that year contained it. It was a prologue area.

Actually you do get it. It is part of the house you earn (which is in Elsweyr) in doing the main quest line over the course of "Season of the Dragon"

They are still right - none of the zones we got that year contained it. One wing of the Hall of the Lunar Champion takes you to an overlook that looks down on the Halls of the Colossus. But it's connected with portals, and isn't actually in the zone Elsweyr. The Halls of the Colossus is tucked between Valenwood and Pellitine, but isn't accessible in either Anequina nor Pellitine.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Halls_of_Colossus

It's there you just can't get to it by normal means.

The Dungeons "Areas" never really indicate the zone. Only the prologue quest. Which is my point; the trailer and prologue are what indicate the next zone - Not the Dungeons.

This was the case for both Skyrim and Elsweyr.

RemanCyrodiil pointed out that the Halls of the Colossus weren't part of either of the playable zones we got; and still featured in the trailer. That is still correct despite your reply; that is what I pointed out. The Hall would be between the gap of Northern and Southern Elsweyr, on the coast (approximate location in image) which isn't a playable location outside of the prologue, and isn't a part of either of the Elsweyr zones as I said.

So it's equally possible that the teaser-dream location won't be playable outside of a prologue or a dungeon, even if it features in the trailer. I'd remind you that the Elsweyr trailer took place physically in the Halls, which are still unplayable; while the Oblivion Teaser is clearly not in Blackmarsh, she is just dreaming about an Argonian ruin (that may or may not be In Blackmarsh) while physically located clearly not there (more likely towards Skingrad).

MaisonNaevius

I really don't believe in a return of Lyris in 2021. Or really exceptionally at the end of the epilogue.
I ask you ... Cadwell announced Solitude. Have we seen him ? No.

I don't see why there would be an exception to the clues at the end of the Chapter and at the end of the epilogue.
There has never been a mistake since Morrowind Chapter.

I have the impression that those who want Blackwood chapter actually want a compromise for a chapter with 50% Argonian focus... There is no doubt that the Blackwood will likely appear in Q4.

Many think of Colovia in Q4 ... Because he is "small" and there is only Skingrad.
Colovia has the dimensions of a Chapter and has three colonies. Skingrad, Sutch and possibly Sarchal. Note that Sarchal has a Breton influence and that the exit from the ancestral Breton style would make more or less sense.
It's not just West Weald in short...

The Battlemage class seems less and less certain. But in case we have it, I'm still thinking of the Battlespire. It would make sense for the Battlemage class, for the Legion, but also the trip to Oblivion.

Iccotak