Please do something about this..(Undaunted Event)

S_Tanner

This topic and the info in it does not apply to any person that either already knows how to do this or veterans of the game. This is a major problem specific to people new to the game:

The Undaunted event is a massive mess. It's been one major block after another and now I find even more:

Here is the problems I've been constantly running into:

Got the crown store quest thing (At least that was popped up on my screen when logging in so I was made aware of it, then it just went down hill from there, and is still going down hill.

FIRST PROBLEM:
When you get the quest, you have a journal entry header called EVENT. After turning in the quest from the Crown store to the NPC, you got some gold and exp and then...nothing..There was nothing else to do. There wasn't another quest marker, there was no journal entry, the header in the journal "EVENT" was gone. I even waited around for 3 minutes to see if another quest marker or something would show up, nope. This was now a dead end because there was nothing left to do at all and there wasn't and still isn't a single shred of information anywhere that says there is more to this. So couple that with all avenues for continuance had been exhausted, the players is now told that the event was over. That situation lead me to post the following comment in zone chat
"This undaunted event is dumb, Making a huge deal out of a random quest that just gives you some exp and gold...what a waste...Who thought this was a good idea."
You can use your imagination about what people in zone chat did and said.

The bottom line is there is zero information about how to continue anything undaunted beyond turning the quest into the NPC. People can say there is, but there isn't. That is just them knowing how to do it so they don't see the problem with not mentioning anything anywhere.

SECOND PROBLEM:
Finally after 3 days of asking, I finally got some answers..The dungeon finder itself was never once explained and there is no possible way a player who had not played this game would have ever known that the undaunted was connected to a dungeon...on top of that the dungeon finder wasn't even explained either (Someone knowing how to use it, does not mean it was explained) Anyway after fighting with people in chat for a couple of hours just about using the dungeon finder it was enough to continue I (Although this disconnect from the NCP in the first problem to this second problem NEVER should have happened to begin with.)

PROBLEM THREE:
ok so fast forward, now I get some event items which present an entire new slew of problems all of which are exactly like the disconnect in the first problem meaning there is absolutely no way to know what half this stuff is used for. One of the many examples of items from this I got, which again no explanation about anything about it was given and what was written was also not explained such as this I got transmutation Crystals. There is no explanation anywhere about what these were suppose to be used for, the words use meant nothing because what it was used in or for wasn't explained either.. A newer player has absolutely no possible way to know what any of this stuff is, what it means and even what menus things are in. The transmutation was under consume so right click on it and it gives the option for "USE", upon using it, the item disappears and I had no clue what happened to it or if anything happened at all..All the game showed me was this item when used does nothing, despite what it says in it's description. And the description about trait changing or something caused a whole slew of other unanswered questions because nothing about that was explained anywhere in any way. Uses wording and things only someone who played the game for a long time would ever understand.

That just lead to even more frustration and idiotic people in the zone chat causing even more problems by knowing you don't know something, and making it even more confusing and complex, so that creates it's own problem in itself on top of the already massive problem that already exists.

PROBLEM FOUR:
Fast forward and I got an undaunted KEY, and I now first of all don't know why it wasn't anywhere in my inventory like anything else. Which lead me to ask in chat what happened to the key I had. This now lead to even more idiots in chat causing more confusion and even more problems. (See someone new, lets pick on them) Fine I don't care about that that comes with MMO's, nut that still; doesn't negate that I have to even ask something like this in the first place. So now I finally get told about some vendor, which is another set of problems because not only did I ask how people even knew that information to begin with, but where it was posted in the game so I could read it, and Which lead me to asking how they knew where it was posted because that isn't even mentioned. So now the information you need about the information is hidden and not mentioned to the player is even there, but also the player is never even told the information about how to find the information is also hidden and never mentioned to a player. All that because the game designers couldn't put a simple pop up on the screen.

As side note, there is nothing mentioning to a player that not only do you have to go back to your own faction, but how a players is even supposed to know that to begin with.

Anyway, someone finally realized I was right, groups with me, and leads me to what is supposed to be the place there is a vendor you can use keys on...guess what I went to every single NPC in the area, and there wasn't a single vendor that allowed me to use the key (Which BTW I still have). Now I start calling people in chat lairs about the key because at this point they are, I've been brought to a place that I'm supposed to be able to use the key, and cannot find any place that has use key or whatever, and the simple concept of if the vendor was there then where are they, backs me up.

PROBLEM FIVE:
Fast forward, I then see a brand NEW word NEVER before mentioned which was "PLEDGE"..Which now I'm being told isn't allowed until level 45...OK ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
at this point I'm done with this ridiculous silly outline and came to the forum with this because this is beyond absurd.

[snip] Everything is being hidden, nothing is being explained at all, there is way too much pointless and useless garbage and yet somehow assuming someone is supposed to somehow magically know all, this stuff.

Cut the crap with this event and make it proper stop with all the ***:
Step 1. make the event ONLY ALLOWED for people at level 45 and you mention everything involved, (This includes and not limited ti all rewards, what they're for, everything)
Step 2. Do not leave a blank space between connection points
Step 3. Once a player is given a reward you make sure there are fully detailed out instructions that explain everything STEP by step exactly like Crafting is done. And you do not allow those instructions to disappear.
Step 4. Do not assume a player knows something, you write all the instructions in all steps spoon feeding the player every step of the way. This does not mean skip explaining an interface and or menu either.

I should not be having this situation constantly throughout the game.

[snip]

[Edit for Bashing]

Taleof2Cities

As a new player, you only rely on other players to help you, @S_Tanner?

ESO has an in-game help section ... are you aware of it and ever used it?

Not to mention ESO has been out long enough to have many good online guides but just doing a search.

Before getting frustrated next time, check out some of the resources available to you.

Ackwalan

There is that huge announcement when you first log your character in that explains it all. Granted it does take some effort on your part to click that banner and read what is there.

SirAndy

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

ESO has an in-game help section

I agree, and it is actually pretty detailed, BUT, they don't really tell new players about that either, so, i can absolutely understand the OP's confusion.

S_Tanner

Ackwalan wrote: »

There is that huge announcement when you first log your character in that explains it all. Granted it does take some effort on your part to click that banner and read what is there.

What is written doesn't matter because it doesn't explain a single thing to a newer player..it uses words, phrases and assumptions, all of which a new player has no clue about and this become problems in the game by creating toxic environments (See Below)...Only people who played the game understand what is written...it's why the first thing I said in this topic, is this doesn't apply to people who have already played or already know how to do this..This topic applies only to people new to this..


None of what people are posting is relevant to the problem itself.
It's inexcusable to have something like this in the condition it's in. Nothing should ever create this many problems, problems to the extent they are and then happen one after the other this badly. Not too mention to the point it causes hostility in the game because people over the level of 45 can access something someone under level 45 cannot, so both sides are going to say the other is dumb and trolling and it's going to result in nasty *** being said on both ends and nothing is going to get solved.

Telling people to use resources is silly because something like this in a game shouldn't be in the conditions it's in.
Case in point, keys cannot be used until level 45, so why the hell would this event even be allowed to people not level 45.

IF this entire event was started at level 45 like is should be, and simple pop ups on the screen and common sense connection points were programmed in, then you could justify telling someone to look something up..But to only allow keys to be used at level 45 and never even say anything at all so a person under level 45 is left with a key, asking in chat then having contradictions from people who are level 45 and over, that people under level 45 cannot do, it's a major problem.

Sorry, but you cannot justify the mess of this, sweeping it under the rug by saying there are resources.

Sorry, but that is ***!

Linaleah

event is not about keys, event is about cosmetic rewards. keys can be saved until you reach lvl 45. cosmetic rewards are only available during this event and they can be used by anyone. daily quests that award the boxes are accesible the moment you join undaunted... which is available the moment you live the tutorial. (of course, you also need to know that they exist, and where to find them to join them - which is a problem)

I do agree that its extremely confusing for a new person. they do not explain where to find impresario, or how to collect a mount with any degree of coherence, in game help when it comes to both impresario and cosmetic events she sells - is unintuitive to find. you literally need to know where to look, and if you know enough to know where to look, the event itself is probably not nearly as confusing to you.

but.. this is not just an issue with the event. this game is notoriously bad at explaining itself, its pretty much all sink or swim.

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

S_Tanner

[Quoted post has been removed.]

I see.

Ackwalan wrote: »

keys can be saved until you reach lvl 45

That makes it sound as though Keys can be used before level 45. They can't! You have to be at least level 45 to use a key

This wasn't a hate towards this, it's a dislike but I also gave some input which would help to fix this. I just didn't want to be one of those "This game sucks" with no structure to that statement, type people and not articulate an actual problem along with a solution.

That's all.

oregonrob

I have found a lot of information by going to the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages. Even after spending thousands of hours in the game, I still go there occasionally to look things up. You may want to check it out...

Linaleah

S_Tanner wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

I see.

This wasn't a hate towards this, it's a dislike but I also gave some input which would help to fix this. I just didn't want to be one of those "This game sucks" with no structure to that statement, type people and not articulate an actual problem along with a solution.

That's all.

hey, expanding the free crown event quest to explain what to do ala Cyrodil introduction quest for example - would go a long way to alleviate some of your issues. having tutorial pop up explaining where to find in game articles explaining events etc in more detail would ALSO help a lot.

as I said, this game can be pretty terrible at explaining itself and its aspects - across the board. to give ZoS credit - it used to be much worse. like these in game events? were very easy to miss for new players before. unless you knew they were coming, there wasn't anything to tell you in game that event started unless you came across it by accident or saw other players talk about it. now we have a giant pop up when you log into the character selection screen.

small steps. hopefully ZoS will see your post and considers how they can further improve in game resources and tutorials.

but just to reiterate. that key you got? its just currency, and while you cannot use it yet, it doesn't take up any room and just stays there permanently until you can. technically full event participation is limited to level 10 (cause that is when you can start using dungeon finder and run dungeons) partial event participation doesn't have a level limit.

S_Tanner

oregonrob wrote: »

I have found a lot of information by going to the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages. Even after spending thousands of hours in the game, I still go there occasionally to look things up. You may want to check it out...

That is completely irrelevant to the issues I'm talking about.
There are 2 problems with your reply:

1. A new player isn't even going to be aware there is anything beyond turning the quest in you get from the crown store. So looking that up won't even enter their mind as if they were missing anything.

2. None of the problems I mentioned above, should even be happening to begin with.

Taleof2Cities

SirAndy wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

ESO has an in-game help section

I agree, and it is actually pretty detailed, BUT, they don't really tell new players about that either, so, i can absolutely understand the OP's confusion.

While I partially agree with you, @SirAndy, I should also mention that the Help menu is in the list of keybinds when new players change keybinds for the first time.

Thialmer

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

There is that huge announcement when you first log your character in that explains it all. Granted it does take some effort on your part to click that banner and read what is there.

What is written doesn't matter because it doesn't explain a single thing to a newer player..it uses words, phrases and assumptions, all of which a new player has no clue about and this become problems in the game by creating toxic environments (See Below)...Only people who played the game understand what is written...it's why the first thing I said in this topic, is this doesn't apply to people who have already played or already know how to do this..This topic applies only to people new to this..


None of what people are posting is relevant to the problem itself.
It's inexcusable to have something like this in the condition it's in. Nothing should ever create this many problems, problems to the extent they are and then happen one after the other this badly. Not too mention to the point it causes hostility in the game because people over the level of 45 can access something someone under level 45 cannot, so both sides are going to say the other is dumb and trolling and it's going to result in nasty *** being said on both ends and nothing is going to get solved.

Telling people to use resources is silly because something like this in a game shouldn't be in the conditions it's in.
Case in point, keys cannot be used until level 45, so why the hell would this event even be allowed to people not level 45.

IF this entire event was started at level 45 like is should be, and simple pop ups on the screen and common sense connection points were programmed in, then you could justify telling someone to look something up..But to only allow keys to be used at level 45 and never even say anything at all so a person under level 45 is left with a key, asking in chat then having contradictions from people who are level 45 and over, that people under level 45 cannot do, it's a major problem.

Sorry, but you cannot justify the mess of this, sweeping it under the rug by saying there are resources.

Sorry, but that is ***!

The Undaunted Celebration begins Thursday, December 3 at 10:00AM EST and runs until Tuesday, December 15 at 10:00AM EST. During this in-game event, you can earn bonus rewards and glory for completing any of Tamriel’s four-player dungeons.

To join the fight, use the Dungeon Finder tool or travel to any dungeon in Tamriel and complete it on Normal or Veteran difficulty—you choose!

You're right. These words are so confusing. The keys aren't what the event is even for. It's tickets and style pages (Yes the shoulders come from keys but it's not a majority of the event.)

S_Tanner

Linaleah wrote: »

but just to reiterate. that key you got? its just currency, and while you cannot use it yet, it doesn't take up any room and just stays there permanently until you can. technically full event participation is limited to level 10 (cause that is when you can start using dungeon finder and run dungeons) partial event participation doesn't have a level limit.

I understand the key situation NOW, but I that information should be supplied to a player right when they get the key. All ti says was this can be used to open rewards...but that is pointless because it assumes the player already knows.
Yes I read the pop up for that)

BTW Don 't even get me started on the problems I had trying to have getting into Cyrodiil explained. I haven't gone in there yet Because I don't do pvp in games but seeing how bad the rest of this game is for explaining things, I'm sure if I go in cyrodiil, I'm going to run into a mess. it won't surprise me in the slightest.

jaws343

And also, you don't need to do pledges to participate in the event. You just have to complete a dungeon, which can be done far before level 45.

S_Tanner

jaws343 wrote: »

You know what I do when I find something in game that I cannot figure out... I come to the forums, or Google and look for an answer. It would solve all of your issues. Just a simple 5 minute search and you'll have all of the information you need.

Well you must be very proud of yourself then....LOL j/k couldn't resist..

But in all seriousness
Gamers have this nasty habit of taking what they personally choose to do, and inserting it into places it really has no place being then trying to use that as a crutch or excuse to basically say in so many words, it's your own fault for not knowing this stuff.

When did games all of a sudden become schoolwork? (That is not my quote, but it fits this topic perfectly)

Gamers fail to understand one simple thing, when you pay for a product, you are a paying consumer, and as such are 100% entitled to be handed everything as far as instruction wise in a spoon fed way.

If you call customer service for something you purchased to get help by having them walk you through something they made that you purchased, They don't say google it, they don't tell you things like "Well no one else had a problem" well the designers assume you have some basic level of understanding of it, get a refund, look it up...you get the idea..No they explain it because they made the product, you paid for it, and ti's their job to explain it to you as a consumer, not you as a consumer have to do their job for them. It does not matter how silly you think a question is or have the opinion there is no possible way anyone could not know that...but that is not your place to dictate that to someone.

You cannot take what you know, force it onto someone else, and then blame the person for not knowing as if it's their fault if they don't know then call them a troll and what ever other name people in games use..That simply is not how this works.

No job would ever tolerate a customer service personnel telling a customer anything gamers tell people who ask about something in a game, they just wouldn't and everyone knows that yet gamers think that doesn't apply to games for some reason that no one seems to be able to explain.

Just because something CAN be looked up and someone else posted information some place for people to use does not exempt the designer from not having to explain their own product. it just doesn't. And gamers have been using that statement as a crutch for far too long.

This whole thing with gamers and saying look it up is beyond obnoxious and silly.

Linaleah

S_Tanner wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

but just to reiterate. that key you got? its just currency, and while you cannot use it yet, it doesn't take up any room and just stays there permanently until you can. technically full event participation is limited to level 10 (cause that is when you can start using dungeon finder and run dungeons) partial event participation doesn't have a level limit.

I understand the key situation NOW, but I that information should be supplied to a player right when they get the key. All ti says was this can be used to open rewards...but that is pointless because it assumes the player already knows.
Yes I read the pop up for that)

BTW Don 't even get me started on the problems I had trying to have getting into Cyrodiil explained. I haven't gone in there yet Because I don't do pvp in games but seeing how bad the rest of this game is for explaining things, I'm sure if I go in cyrodiil, I'm going to run into a mess. it won't surprise me in the slightest.

Cyrodil tutorial quest is actualy pretty decent at giving you the basics. it doesn't involve any actual pvp, it just explains how to travel around it, what siege engines are for and how to use them. AND it gives you skill points, so i would highly recommend doing it. to go to Cyrodil, you have to queue up through alliance war window. I would suggest using below lvl 50 campaign.

DarcyMardin

I agree that the game is very opaque in a lot of ways for newcomers. I feel that this has always been the case, since the beginning. But over time, it has grown even more complex, with systems added that do not seem obvious or even sensible until you get accustomed to how they work. I’ve been playing for years, but even so there are still things that I am discovering. It must be extremely confusing for players who are just starting out.

I still rely on outside guides, often on YouTube, for anything about the game that I don’t understand. There are a lot of helpful people who make videos and/or write guides about every aspect of the game.

If there is still anything you don’t grok about the Undaunted Guild or the Undaunted event, ask away and I’m sure folks will answer.

jaws343

S_Tanner wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You know what I do when I find something in game that I cannot figure out... I come to the forums, or Google and look for an answer. It would solve all of your issues. Just a simple 5 minute search and you'll have all of the information you need.

Well you must be very proud of yourself then....LOL j/k couldn't resist..

But in all seriousness
Gamers have this nasty habit of taking what they personally choose to do, and inserting it into places it really has no place being then trying to use that as a crutch or excuse to basically say in so many words, it's your own fault for not knowing this stuff.

When did games all of a sudden become schoolwork? (That is not my quote, but it fits this topic perfectly)

Gamers fail to understand one simple thing, when you pay for a product, you are a paying consumer, and as such are 100% entitled to be handed everything as far as instruction wise in a spoon fed way.

If you call customer service for something you purchased to get help by having them walk you through something they made that you purchased, They don't say google it, they don't tell you things like "Well no one else had a problem" well the designers assume you have some basic level of understanding of it, get a refund, look it up...you get the idea..No they explain it because they made the product, you paid for it, and ti's their job to explain it to you as a consumer, not you as a consumer have to do their job for them. It does not matter how silly you think a question is or have the opinion there is no possible way anyone could not know that...but that is not your place to dictate that to someone.

You cannot take what you know, force it onto someone else, and then blame the person for not knowing as if it's their fault if they don't know then call them a troll and what ever other name people in games use..That simply is not how this works.

No job would ever tolerate a customer service personnel telling a customer anything gamers tell people who ask about something in a game, they just wouldn't and everyone knows that yet gamers think that doesn't apply to games for some reason that no one seems to be able to explain.

Just because something CAN be looked up and someone else posted information some place for people to use does not exempt the designer from not having to explain their own product. it just doesn't. And gamers have been using that statement as a crutch for far too long.

This whole thing with gamers and saying look it up is beyond obnoxious and silly.

I grew up on games that did not have tutorials. You either had to figure it out yourself or buy a guide. This isn't some new concept. Skyrim barely has a tutorial. In fact, this game has far more tools in place to guide you with information than Skyrim ever had. People have been using external resources to aide in video games since they were created.

And I find it funny you spent 3 days arguing in zone chat with players to get this information that you could have found on these forums in a few minutes. You are ok requesting others to explain mechanics to you but not ok with figuring it out on your own.

jaws343

S_Tanner wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

If there is still anything you don’t grok about the Undaunted Guild or the Undaunted event, ask away and I’m sure folks will answer.

That is completely false. Due to the way it is set up, all asking in chat does is causes the zone chat to be beyond toxic.
You should see some of the things I've read to others and had personally said to me in PM.

Almost everyone winds up being on the others ignore list, and the problem the person has is never solved.

So far this game has had an extremely obnoxious bunch of 3rd graders at recess.

Ask here, on the forums. People in game don't want to spend time, or don't have the time, to hold your hand through a video game. You seem to have capably found the forums, ask questions here.

Linaleah

jaws343 wrote: »

S_Tanner wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You know what I do when I find something in game that I cannot figure out... I come to the forums, or Google and look for an answer. It would solve all of your issues. Just a simple 5 minute search and you'll have all of the information you need.

Well you must be very proud of yourself then....LOL j/k couldn't resist..

But in all seriousness
Gamers have this nasty habit of taking what they personally choose to do, and inserting it into places it really has no place being then trying to use that as a crutch or excuse to basically say in so many words, it's your own fault for not knowing this stuff.

When did games all of a sudden become schoolwork? (That is not my quote, but it fits this topic perfectly)

Gamers fail to understand one simple thing, when you pay for a product, you are a paying consumer, and as such are 100% entitled to be handed everything as far as instruction wise in a spoon fed way.

If you call customer service for something you purchased to get help by having them walk you through something they made that you purchased, They don't say google it, they don't tell you things like "Well no one else had a problem" well the designers assume you have some basic level of understanding of it, get a refund, look it up...you get the idea..No they explain it because they made the product, you paid for it, and ti's their job to explain it to you as a consumer, not you as a consumer have to do their job for them. It does not matter how silly you think a question is or have the opinion there is no possible way anyone could not know that...but that is not your place to dictate that to someone.

You cannot take what you know, force it onto someone else, and then blame the person for not knowing as if it's their fault if they don't know then call them a troll and what ever other name people in games use..That simply is not how this works.

No job would ever tolerate a customer service personnel telling a customer anything gamers tell people who ask about something in a game, they just wouldn't and everyone knows that yet gamers think that doesn't apply to games for some reason that no one seems to be able to explain.

Just because something CAN be looked up and someone else posted information some place for people to use does not exempt the designer from not having to explain their own product. it just doesn't. And gamers have been using that statement as a crutch for far too long.

This whole thing with gamers and saying look it up is beyond obnoxious and silly.

I grew up on games that did not have tutorials. You either had to figure it out yourself or buy a guide. This isn't some new concept. Skyrim barely has a tutorial. In fact, this game has far more tools in place to guide you with information than Skyrim ever had. People have been using external resources to aide in video games since they were created.

And I find it funny you spent 3 days arguing in zone chat with players to get this information that you could have found on these forums in a few minutes. You are ok requesting others to explain mechanics to you but not ok with figuring it out on your own.

umm. UMM. I grew up on those games as well. you didn't need to buy guides. those games came with booklets that explained basic mechanics and controls. I still have a bunch of those on a bookshelf along with optional guides. and those booklets were pretty extensive. its almost worse now because expectation is that you will look things up on line, so tutorials/explanations are cursory at best.


at OP. I'm sorry that you got unlucky with general chat. though its possible that you may have asked your questions in a confrontational angry manner to begin with, which tends to result in, well... trolling rather then good natured explanations. I've learned a lot from asking in chat, and I have done my own part answering questions for players that came after me. in general, community in ESO tends to be pretty decent.

Khajiitihaswares

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

As a new player, you only rely on other players to help you, @S_Tanner?

ESO has an in-game help section ... are you aware of it and ever used it?

Not to mention ESO has been out long enough to have many good online guides but just doing a search.

Before getting frustrated next time, check out some of the resources available to you.

What this guy said. Also there is google.com. Never really bother with forums or in game and bug people unless I can not find it on google.

Lets be fair its 2020 information on your finger tips. Can do research and find answers. Seems you did not do research and snapped then went into a rant... x.x

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After review, we have decided it best to close this thread given the non-constructive arguments, as well as the Bashing and Baiting. Bashing and Baiting are both violations of the Community Guidelines and are stated as follows:

• Bashing and Slanderous Comments: We do not permit the bashing of individuals (including ZeniMax employees), groups, or other companies on our forums. We believe that doing so is neither constructive nor in spirit of our game and community.
• Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-