Class Performance in VMA - Statistics

Drdeath20

Its almost as if the priorities for both arenas goes:

1. Having good self healing while simultaneously dealing damage
2. Having powerful ranged abilities
3. Having a class execute
4. Having a way to keep up with sustain

Dks lag behind on all of those and templars either have good self healing/damage skills or ranged but not both. Nbs are king at all of those and sorcs have the important stuff on that list.

LightYagami

Juhasow wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

It's no secret that sorcs and NBs are ez mode for any content, esp solo.
If you wanna get on leaderboard play DK coz only 2 other people play them.

Lmao
Indeed...
I guess population by classes or frequency of using skills also tell us something. People stopped playing some classes or using some skills with reasons.

What if I told You that even when mag dk's were top DPS class not that long ago with very easy rotation and many top scores in trials , in vMA they were still one of the weakest classes score wise and one with the smallest amount of participants. To understand why You need to know a little bit more about the game then just recent leaderboard scores.

Also as I mentioned earlier Your data covers only 3 weeks time period because leaderboards reset with every major update.

Please do study and sure your findings.
As I said many times, I know this study is limited. As I mentioned I have my full time job and won't have time to study a game in depth.

You demonstrate a good example how people argue with feeling instead of data.

I never denied anyone's performances in trials, I said on the title it's about VMA. If want some trials focusing study, please do it and share your findings.

If you can access to more data and have time, please share your study.

Edit: What if I tell you my magdk is a flawless conqueror and I'm almost cp 1000 and I was on VMA and Cyrodiil leaderboards few times. You need to be patient before saying that others need to know a bit more of the game.

More info, I'm not asking for nerfing NB or buffing DK with this discussion topic. I just want to tell people the importance of using data, and asking ZOS to let us know more about their official statistics.

LightYagami

kojou wrote: »

I run it on my Warden because it is easy to get on (and stay on) weekly with the Warden... My reason has nothing to do with the overall power of the class in my case.

Nightblades were considered one of the easiest ways to get a clear because of Swallow Soul (RIP Funnel Health) and Impale being one of the better executes in the game. The healing over time coupled with shields was enough to keep you alive without costing you too much in terms of defense and self healing.

Sorcerers have Crit Surge, Shields, and the Matriach, so they have even more defense and can dish out a lot of damage while passively healing. They don't have the execute that Nightblades have, but have much better defense.

The Pale Order ring renders all of this irrelevant at this point though and is likely the Combat Team's answer to equalize all classes for solo content. With that ring you can be successful with any class in VMA, so we are likely to see more players venture in with their favorite classes if they haven't already.

I can also run VMA with relative ease on my Magicka DK at this point and I don't have to change anything in terms of skill load out because I get plenty of healing with the Pale Order ring where before I had to do silly things like back bar a Resto staff.

Good to know that. Thanks for your sharing.

LightYagami

To clarify once more, funny enough, some people still thinking that I should do something like an employee is ZOS.

I am NOT a staff of the game.
I'm not intended to make in depth reports like what I did for my job.

I said many times there are limitations and if you want some data, just do it BY YOURSELF. Spend some time and share your findings.

LightYagami

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Its almost as if the priorities for both arenas goes:

1. Having good self healing while simultaneously dealing damage
2. Having powerful ranged abilities
3. Having a class execute
4. Having a way to keep up with sustain

Dks lag behind on all of those and templars either have good self healing/damage skills or ranged but not both. Nbs are king at all of those and sorcs have the important stuff on that list.

Yep and these abilities are very important for personal performance, if people only play organized groups, they won't understand the difference outside well organized groups.

Some classes have good performance in large organized group trials by contributing to others or from others, but personal performances are weak.

I also collected some data is Cyrodiil 30 days leaderboards, covering 100 players of each class, totally 600 of them, but I don't have the time to tidy up yet..

From the preliminary view, NBs are still sitting on very top positions.

By the way, Cyrodiil leaderboards can be reached by general players by spending more time with zerg.

LightYagami

idk wrote: »

I would suggest there are much better sources of data to analyze class performance. ESO Logs for trials would be significantly better at analyzing DPS performance in actual situations.

I know trial and target dummy DPS are large parts of the game, and many YouTubers shared some solid data about that too. I'm not interested in making my own study on this topic.

In fact I'd like to know some statics about PvP, for example frequency of skills appearing death recaps, damage per min, magicka and stamina morphs, etc. but if the game company doesn't want to share us, we won't be able to do studies.

When I was playing Battlefield, there were some much better websites showing data-driven analysis about performances of classes, weapons, KD ratios, kills per minute, etc.

Transparency of this game need to be improved.

LightYagami

Examples of something we had for Battlefield... Guess we may not necessarily have those for ESO, but they could be some good references, especially for PvP...

https://i.redd.it/456ghmjf2un11.png

https://i.imgur.com/w1qdmwB.png

https://i.redd.it/rh9z4933g3u11.png

https://i.imgur.com/jONR3.png

https://image.winudf.com/v2/image/Y29tLmJjc2VpbWUuYmY0c3RhdHMyX3NjcmVlbnNob3RzXzZfMzBiOTIzM2I/screen-6.jpg?fakeurl=1&type=.jpg

Juhasow

LightYagami wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

It's no secret that sorcs and NBs are ez mode for any content, esp solo.
If you wanna get on leaderboard play DK coz only 2 other people play them.

Lmao
Indeed...
I guess population by classes or frequency of using skills also tell us something. People stopped playing some classes or using some skills with reasons.

What if I told You that even when mag dk's were top DPS class not that long ago with very easy rotation and many top scores in trials , in vMA they were still one of the weakest classes score wise and one with the smallest amount of participants. To understand why You need to know a little bit more about the game then just recent leaderboard scores.

Also as I mentioned earlier Your data covers only 3 weeks time period because leaderboards reset with every major update.

Please do study and sure your findings.
As I said many times, I know this study is limited. As I mentioned I have my full time job and won't have time to study a game in depth.

You demonstrate a good example how people argue with feeling instead of data.

I never denied anyone's performances in trials, I said on the title it's about VMA. If want some trials focusing study, please do it and share your findings.

If you can access to more data and have time, please share your study.

Edit: What if I tell you my magdk is a flawless conqueror and I'm almost cp 1000 and I was on VMA and Cyrodiil leaderboards few times. You need to be patient before saying that others need to know a bit more of the game.

More info, I'm not asking for nerfing NB or buffing DK with this discussion topic. I just want to tell people the importance of using data, and asking ZOS to let us know more about their official statistics.

Study about what ?

Yes I know what Your study is about but what is the point of Your study is completly different story.

After ESO leaderboards website shutdown there is unfortunatelly no way for easy acces for data like that but there is still thing called memory which I used to give my example.

What if I tell You that I have flawless conqueror on every class both mag and stam and usually when I visit vMA I am on leaderboard by default. I also got emperorship in cyrodill dozens of times. I have over 1,6k CP on one account around 800 on second and around 500 on third and I've been playing since beta. I have most of trifectas achievements (speed run+no death+hard mode in one run) in DLC content , I was even holding number 1 score on leaderboards few times in 4 man arenas which are my preferable type of PvE content. I've played on every class on most of role variations in PvE and PvP. And with all of that plus things I've forgot to mention I still don't consider myself as all knowing about the game but as someone with clearly more experience I still think You need to know a little bit more about the game. Your achievements are nothing that would change my mind on this subject. You need to be patient before using Your accomplishments as an argument.

I just want to tell You about the importance ofusing data properly and understanding the context of the data You're working with to achieve reliable study. Without that even if ZoS would give us acces to some of the game statistics this would still produce lot of incorrect assumptions. Having hard data is one thing , knowing different variables affecting it is another. And without knowing those variables You cannot achieve reliable and meaningfull study. You'll just achieve page full of random charts.

Oh and btw study You did is obvious. Every player who knows the game , knows also the results of Your study not by looking at leaderboards and counting but simply by knowing differences between classes. Fact that DK won't be top dog in vMA leaderboads is obvious for everyone that knows a little bit more about the game. But there is more context to it then just that.

LightYagami

Juhasow wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

It's no secret that sorcs and NBs are ez mode for any content, esp solo.
If you wanna get on leaderboard play DK coz only 2 other people play them.

Lmao
Indeed...
I guess population by classes or frequency of using skills also tell us something. People stopped playing some classes or using some skills with reasons.

What if I told You that even when mag dk's were top DPS class not that long ago with very easy rotation and many top scores in trials , in vMA they were still one of the weakest classes score wise and one with the smallest amount of participants. To understand why You need to know a little bit more about the game then just recent leaderboard scores.

Also as I mentioned earlier Your data covers only 3 weeks time period because leaderboards reset with every major update.

Please do study and sure your findings.
As I said many times, I know this study is limited. As I mentioned I have my full time job and won't have time to study a game in depth.

You demonstrate a good example how people argue with feeling instead of data.

I never denied anyone's performances in trials, I said on the title it's about VMA. If want some trials focusing study, please do it and share your findings.

If you can access to more data and have time, please share your study.

Edit: What if I tell you my magdk is a flawless conqueror and I'm almost cp 1000 and I was on VMA and Cyrodiil leaderboards few times. You need to be patient before saying that others need to know a bit more of the game.

More info, I'm not asking for nerfing NB or buffing DK with this discussion topic. I just want to tell people the importance of using data, and asking ZOS to let us know more about their official statistics.

Study about what ?

Yes I know what Your study is about but what is the point of Your study is completly different story.

After ESO leaderboards website shutdown there is unfortunatelly no way for easy acces for data like that but there is still thing called memory which I used to give my example.

What if I tell You that I have flawless conqueror on every class both mag and stam and usually when I visit vMA I am on leaderboard by default. I also got emperorship in cyrodill dozens of times. I have over 1,6k CP on one account around 800 on second and around 500 on third and I've been playing since beta. I have most of trifectas achievements (speed run+no death+hard mode in one run) in DLC content , I was even holding number 1 score on leaderboards few times in 4 man arenas which are my preferable type of PvE content. I've played on every class on most of role variations in PvE and PvP. And with all of that plus things I've forgot to mention I still don't consider myself as all knowing about the game but as someone with clearly more experience I still think You need to know a little bit more about the game. Your achievements are nothing that would change my mind on this subject. You need to be patient before using Your accomplishments as an argument.

I just want to tell You about the importance ofusing data properly and understanding the context of the data You're working with to achieve reliable study. Without that even if ZoS would give us acces to some of the game statistics this would still produce lot of incorrect assumptions. Having hard data is one thing , knowing different variables affecting it is another. And without knowing those variables You cannot achieve reliable and meaningfull study. You'll just achieve page full of random charts.

Oh and btw study You did is obvious. Every player who knows the game , knows also the results of Your study not by looking at leaderboards and counting but simply by knowing differences between classes. Fact that DK won't be top dog in vMA leaderboads is obvious for everyone that knows a little bit more about the game. But there is more context to it then just that.

Please give us some quantitative statistics if you're interested in some topics.
It's always easy to criticize others than actually do some works by oneself.

You're still talking with feeling after a long discussion, that's something I'm trying to let the community to be aware of. For example, how do you define "obvious for everyone", "every player who knows the game"? These are feeling. Please give some data to support the statements about "Everyone".

Using your own words, you need to know a bit more about mathematics and analysis.

Playing for a long time doesn't equivalent to knowing well or how to do analysis. You said I need to have a bit more knowledge and I guess I have more than a bit, and not only from playing but also from observations and mindset of an analyst. You said Magdks this and that and I know what's happening with the class, and with some limited data support instead of simply feeling.

As I said multiple multiple multiple multiple times already, players of this game don't have access to good data. We need data from ZOS and studies by ZOS. If you have, please share your findings with data supports instead of feeling.

Sharing feeling and criticizing others are easy, sitting down and do some work is another story. Put away emotions and share some quantitative analysis.

Take some time, sit down, clear your mind, and read through my comments not only to you but also others, hope you'll know what I'm trying to do with this topic.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@LightYagami
Putting in that work for the DK, I love it.

idk

LightYagami wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

One thing I’d mention here is that a class which is easy to complete vMA with doesn’t mean it makes the best class for getting top scores. You will see NB and Warden at the top for scores but still double pet sorcs are easier for the average player.

Also the best vMA players will run the best class for clearing and ignore others. This creates a skew that suggests the under played classes are worse than they seem.

This is what I was getting to earlier. All this data shows is what is easiest to do well in vMA. The data is irrelevant when looking at what the best class is for DPS, or any role, in a HM trial or even PvP.

It is by no means an indicator of how the classes are balanced overall.

But again, thx for the info because it is interesting to see it.

Please do some studies per your interest and share us your findings.

Was not intending to offend. I was certainly not knocking you for doing and presenting this work. As a data analyst, I would expect you already noted that the vMA data only speaks to single-player arenas and does not indicate anything about the balance of classes in the rest of the game.

And again, thx for the analysis. What I see as an important takeaway is the classes easier constant self-healing are the ones that do better as your data shows Sorcs and NBs getting higher scores. That is very helpful to those who are trying to get their clear.

Drdeath20

leaderboards are segregated by class. Nightblades leaderboards are tougher to crack than a dks. Just clearing vma on a dk is almost enough to get on their leaderboard. Soo in a way its almost better to complete it on a dk vs completing it on a nightblade if your just aiming for leaderboards.

Getting flawless conqueror is much harder on a dk than any other class or even (for newer to arena players) just getting the clear. Ring of the pale order helps immensely but dks still have holes.

IMO getting flawless takes

1. Knowledge of ~where every add spawns and which add takes priority.
2. Knowledge of every stages mechanics.
3. Positioning your self in the most optimal spot.
4. Strong 1 bar offense. Nothing really has enough health to merit a full dps rotation clinic. If you are able to lay down some back bar DoTs/AoEs thats perfect but more than anything its best to stay on the offense.

Theres videos out there of players getting flawless just using light and heavy bow attacks.

Why other classes are better than a dk at arenas:

1. Being able to simultaneously deal damage and recieve healing from it. (Either a spammable like swallow soul/sweeps or passively through crit surge).
2. Having better sustain
3. Having some kind of execute
4. Having better ranged abilities
5. Being able to just power through tough parts on 1 bar.

Of the 4 OG classes dks are worst at all of those things and i believe that is why their scores are are collectively much lower.

kojou

Drdeath20 wrote: »

leaderboards are segregated by class. Nightblades leaderboards are tougher to crack than a dks. Just clearing vma on a dk is almost enough to get on their leaderboard. Soo in a way its almost better to complete it on a dk vs completing it on a nightblade if your just aiming for leaderboards.

Getting flawless conqueror is much harder on a dk than any other class or even (for newer to arena players) just getting the clear. Ring of the pale order helps immensely but dks still have holes.

IMO getting flawless takes

1. Knowledge of ~where every add spawns and which add takes priority.
2. Knowledge of every stages mechanics.
3. Positioning your self in the most optimal spot.
4. Strong 1 bar offense. Nothing really has enough health to merit a full dps rotation clinic. If you are able to lay down some back bar DoTs/AoEs thats perfect but more than anything its best to stay on the offense.

Theres videos out there of players getting flawless just using light and heavy bow attacks.

Why other classes are better than a dk at arenas:

1. Being able to simultaneously deal damage and recieve healing from it. (Either a spammable like swallow soul/sweeps or passively through crit surge).
2. Having better sustain
3. Having some kind of execute
4. Having better ranged abilities
5. Being able to just power through tough parts on 1 bar.

Of the 4 OG classes dks are worst at all of those things and i believe that is why their scores are are collectively much lower.

So when I run with my DK...

1. Solved with Pale Order.
2. Solved with False God's
3. There are really not that many things that need it.
4. I will give you this one... I hate chasing trolls in round 5 on my DK (I could slot Crushing Shock, but I prefer the damage of Whip).
5. This is not an issue. FOO, Engulfing, Embers, and Whip will kill things very quickly. I only do a full rotation on final bosses.

It is easier with ranged, but would you rather be one of the plebes that has to pew pew from a distance with a Nightblade or Sorc, or would you rather be a fire breathing, flame whipping bad ass (and get on the leader board easily )?

Juhasow

LightYagami wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

It's no secret that sorcs and NBs are ez mode for any content, esp solo.
If you wanna get on leaderboard play DK coz only 2 other people play them.

Lmao
Indeed...
I guess population by classes or frequency of using skills also tell us something. People stopped playing some classes or using some skills with reasons.

What if I told You that even when mag dk's were top DPS class not that long ago with very easy rotation and many top scores in trials , in vMA they were still one of the weakest classes score wise and one with the smallest amount of participants. To understand why You need to know a little bit more about the game then just recent leaderboard scores.

Also as I mentioned earlier Your data covers only 3 weeks time period because leaderboards reset with every major update.

Please do study and sure your findings.
As I said many times, I know this study is limited. As I mentioned I have my full time job and won't have time to study a game in depth.

You demonstrate a good example how people argue with feeling instead of data.

I never denied anyone's performances in trials, I said on the title it's about VMA. If want some trials focusing study, please do it and share your findings.

If you can access to more data and have time, please share your study.

Edit: What if I tell you my magdk is a flawless conqueror and I'm almost cp 1000 and I was on VMA and Cyrodiil leaderboards few times. You need to be patient before saying that others need to know a bit more of the game.

More info, I'm not asking for nerfing NB or buffing DK with this discussion topic. I just want to tell people the importance of using data, and asking ZOS to let us know more about their official statistics.

Study about what ?

Yes I know what Your study is about but what is the point of Your study is completly different story.

After ESO leaderboards website shutdown there is unfortunatelly no way for easy acces for data like that but there is still thing called memory which I used to give my example.

What if I tell You that I have flawless conqueror on every class both mag and stam and usually when I visit vMA I am on leaderboard by default. I also got emperorship in cyrodill dozens of times. I have over 1,6k CP on one account around 800 on second and around 500 on third and I've been playing since beta. I have most of trifectas achievements (speed run+no death+hard mode in one run) in DLC content , I was even holding number 1 score on leaderboards few times in 4 man arenas which are my preferable type of PvE content. I've played on every class on most of role variations in PvE and PvP. And with all of that plus things I've forgot to mention I still don't consider myself as all knowing about the game but as someone with clearly more experience I still think You need to know a little bit more about the game. Your achievements are nothing that would change my mind on this subject. You need to be patient before using Your accomplishments as an argument.

I just want to tell You about the importance ofusing data properly and understanding the context of the data You're working with to achieve reliable study. Without that even if ZoS would give us acces to some of the game statistics this would still produce lot of incorrect assumptions. Having hard data is one thing , knowing different variables affecting it is another. And without knowing those variables You cannot achieve reliable and meaningfull study. You'll just achieve page full of random charts.

Oh and btw study You did is obvious. Every player who knows the game , knows also the results of Your study not by looking at leaderboards and counting but simply by knowing differences between classes. Fact that DK won't be top dog in vMA leaderboads is obvious for everyone that knows a little bit more about the game. But there is more context to it then just that.

Please give us some quantitative statistics if you're interested in some topics.
It's always easy to criticize others than actually do some works by oneself.

You're still talking with feeling after a long discussion, that's something I'm trying to let the community to be aware of. For example, how do you define "obvious for everyone", "every player who knows the game"? These are feeling. Please give some data to support the statements about "Everyone".

Using your own words, you need to know a bit more about mathematics and analysis.

Playing for a long time doesn't equivalent to knowing well or how to do analysis. You said I need to have a bit more knowledge and I guess I have more than a bit, and not only from playing but also from observations and mindset of an analyst. You said Magdks this and that and I know what's happening with the class, and with some limited data support instead of simply feeling.

As I said multiple multiple multiple multiple times already, players of this game don't have access to good data. We need data from ZOS and studies by ZOS. If you have, please share your findings with data supports instead of feeling.

Sharing feeling and criticizing others are easy, sitting down and do some work is another story. Put away emotions and share some quantitative analysis.

Take some time, sit down, clear your mind, and read through my comments not only to you but also others, hope you'll know what I'm trying to do with this topic.

What an amotional post.

What statistics You want excatly ? What do You need them for ? If You ask for something ask precisely.

No , this topic is not causing any emotional impact on me and no feelings are involved other then simple amusment. When it comes to feelings and being emotional I think Your post above is good example for that. I've used term "every player who knows the game" because it's self explanatory. By that term I mean player with decent level of knowledge about combat and game mechanics. There is a difference between context of word "everyone" in phrases "pbvious for everyone" and "obvious for everyone that knows a little bit more about the game". You basically proved what I was saying , that You have issues with understanding context of things.

As for mathematics and analysis although I know a little bit more bout them due to both field of studies I was studying I also know that math used by You to produce Your charts do not require some additional knowledge because it's on ground school level. Like seriously You did the simpliest caculations possible. You need to show a little bit more math to start bragging about knowing the math. As for analysis You did You need to know a little bit more about the game because without knowing more variables (like leaderboard reset schedule and core differences between classes) Your analysis is flawed.

I do agree that playing for long is not equal to knowing how to do analysis. In that context it's even more funny it was You who started to use time spend in the game as an argument. And You do realize Your current argumentation can be turned other way around ? Because knowing how to perform analysis doesn't equal to knowing how game works and You can't correctly analyse thing You don't quite understand. To produce realiable analysis You need to know not only how to do analysis but also how game works to know all the variables that can influence Your calculations. I've said You need a little bit more knowledge about the game. Don't twist my words to support Your argumentation. And sorry but I still do think You need to know a little bit more about the game. Feeling deep inside You that You have mindset of analyst won't magically bring that knowledge to Your head.

Players of this game have acces to enough of data to support lot of their claims. Leaderboards are last of those. When it comes ot leaderboards for majority of game existance there was a website ESO leaderboards which holded all top leaderboard scores since 2015 up to not that long ago when it was closed down. ESO logs is another way if You know what You're looking for and how to analyse that. And funnily enough as an expert analytist You didn't knew about any of those websites. And no we do not need data from ZoS that muvh. It WOuld be helpfull to get some data but not mandatory. For over 6 years we've been doing pretty well on our owns very often surpassing ZoS's findings. Even with data from ZoS there will be still people like You who don't know how to interpretate it and they'll be just straight forward counting averages and medians.

To be honest I would really like You to tell what You're trying to do with this topic. Personally I think You don't even fully know that. Put away emotions and share some quantitive analysis with explanation subject of the topic. What is subject of Your thread proving in Your opinion ? Take some time, sit down, clear your mind and answer.

Danksta

"The reason I didn't include the two new classes is that VMA is an old content and people are less devoted to run VMA leaderboard."

If this is a reason to not include warden and necro then it's also a reason that all the data is irrelevant. Which I agree that it is irrelevant data considering it was gathered during a patch that has broken to this point.

Juhasow

Danksta wrote: »

"The reason I didn't include the two new classes is that VMA is an old content and people are less devoted to run VMA leaderboard."

If this is a reason to not include warden and necro then it's also a reason that all the data is irrelevant. Which I agree that it is irrelevant data considering it was gathered during a patch that has broken to this point.

Funnily enough in that particular analysis , time period of participating in vMA leaderboard is the same for every class because op was looking at current markarth leaderboard itteration over 1 week ago so it was data from first 3 weeks since markarth launch for every class including warden and necro. Sadly it looks like op didn't knew that.

LightYagami

Some people still have no idea the difference of feeling and data or the purpose of the topic...... not even a bit... Anyway... Just do whatever you want, I'm not wasting time to teach...

kojou

LightYagami wrote: »

Some people still have no idea the difference of feeling and data or the purpose of the topic...... not even a bit... Anyway... Just do whatever you want, I'm not wasting time to teach...

What was the purpose of this topic anyway? To get a buff for Dragon Knights and Templars? I am ok with that. I love running on my Dragon Knight and I think there are some areas that they could be buffed, but what and how much can't be determined by just doing an analysis on VMA scores. If Dragon Knights were made to do VMA better with their class skill set then would they become over-powered in other content?

Everyone in this thread seems to agree that there are some inherent disadvantages that Dragon Knights have in VMA because they are a Melee-DoT class. You can get around those disadvantages by changing up what gear you are running and sure you won't get as high of a score as a Nightblade that doesn't have to make those compromises, but so what? That is why there are different leader boards for each class.

If Dragon Knight's max score was 400K and every other class was getting 600k effortlessly then I could see where there is an argument, but there are players getting high 500s on Dragon Knights all the time. There is even a 600K score for Dragon Knight right now on PC-NA, so someone has figured it out on a Dragon Knight...

Anyway... You can do what you like, but that is my opinion on why you didn't accomplish whatever it was you set out to accomplish with this post.

Jaimeh

Certain specs can make running the vMA easier for players who are struggling with it, but good players can score push on any spec--you can find 610+ scores on magDK, since you mentioned it, and I saw recently a video of a trifecta run in Vateshran with a sword/board DK... It's not the class that's the most important, it's your familiarity with the class, and your familiarity with the given content. I'm not saying magNB is not powerful, or that the points on that list are not good qualities to have (for any content, actually), but it's not what will give you the most edge in the arena.

Juhasow

LightYagami wrote: »

Some people still have no idea the difference of feeling and data or the purpose of the topic...... not even a bit... Anyway... Just do whatever you want, I'm not wasting time to teach...

Some people still have no idea that no matter how much data will be analysed that analysis will be worthless without having enough background informations about subject that is being analysed . To even start teaching others You would have to learn those things first. Being less emotional about criticism would be a nice change also. As for the purpose of this topic few people already asked You what is it so it would be nice to respond.

ImmortalCX

This data is completely meaningless because it does not differentiate between stam and mag. Stamblade is completely different than magblade.

This is like doing a survey to determine what everyone's favorite fruit is, and the choices are:

>Red
>Yellow
>Green

You may discover that red is the most popular color, but it doesnt tell you if it was apples, strawberries, or grapes.

Dracane

Then look at Vateshran, where Templar is amongst the top classes.
It really depends on the layout and challenge posed by the arena.

Vateshran requires more than just shooting monsters as they spawn from a portal.
So looking at Maelstrom to see what class is better or worse, does not necessarily say which class is certainly stronger in pve.

For example Dragonknights. For the longest time, they were the DPS king in pve. Magicka DK surpassed every magicka spec, despite being a tank class. Though even during that time, they performed worse in Maelstrom.
With that being said, the classes have their strengths in different content.

Not that I would like that. If it was for me, each class would have the same score and the same DPS.

Dracane

LightYagami wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Its almost as if the priorities for both arenas goes:

1. Having good self healing while simultaneously dealing damage
2. Having powerful ranged abilities
3. Having a class execute
4. Having a way to keep up with sustain

Dks lag behind on all of those and templars either have good self healing/damage skills or ranged but not both. Nbs are king at all of those and sorcs have the important stuff on that list.

Yep and these abilities are very important for personal performance, if people only play organized groups, they won't understand the difference outside well organized groups.

Some classes have good performance in large organized group trials by contributing to others or from others, but personal performances are weak.

I also collected some data is Cyrodiil 30 days leaderboards, covering 100 players of each class, totally 600 of them, but I don't have the time to tidy up yet..

From the preliminary view, NBs are still sitting on very top positions.

By the way, Cyrodiil leaderboards can be reached by general players by spending more time with zerg.

The reason why Nightblade outperforms everyone, seems to be the following:

They have the highest on hit damage of all classes with their massive crit modifiers, 8% free magicka and one of the strongest ground dots.

They restore 10 ultimate for every kill they do, which is insanity. Nightblades in Maelstrom prefer incapacitating because of the recovery and the nature of the arena. But soul harvest causes them to be worlds ahead in Vateshran. A very cheap and strong ultimate that passively restores ultimate and allows them to quickly burst elite targets like Ogrims and Xyvkin.

With swallow soul, they do not need to sacrifice an extra skill slot for suvival, unlike sorcerers for example who must slot an otherwise useless ability with surge.

They have unmatched sustain with siphoning attacks. In Maelstrom even more so thanks to incap.

Now you might wonder, why sorcerer is behind nightblade when they seem to have similar ranged capabilities.
The answer in my opinion is overload. Overload used to be why Magsorc was the topclass in maelstrom. But then they nerfed it a lot and disallowed it from recovering ultimate while active. Losing 3 ultimate per second and 9 ultimate from Banish the Wicked. Also that most of the classes offensive powerbudget flows into pets which are expensive in terms of ability slots and useless in short and aoe focused fights.

Overload would fill the damage they lack and give sorcerer something similar to soul harvest, which makes nightblades so fast in Vateshran. But alas, it blocks all ultimate recovery. So sorcerers have no suitable ultimate for quick trash kills. Then again, I am more looking at Vateshran. Normally, destruction storm gives magicka classes what they need for maelstrom.